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I am not a conspiracy theorist.  With a gun to my head, I think that the likeliest situation is that Epstein did, in fact, kill himself AND that there is no bullet-proof list of pedos that someone is holding back.

I think that it is very likely that there are tons of people in and around this, some of which are probably directly guilty, some guilty by association, and some that are just rich people hanging out with other rich people and aren't involved in anything illegal with children.  There's also other people that are probably doing things that are scummy and embarrassing to their image, but not illegal, like sex parties while they're married.

And it's probably not easy, or impossible to tell which people are which, so you can't, in good conscience, just release any name associated with Epstein.

AAAAAAAND, I'm sure that a lot of the people that would be named (and some of which have nothing to do with this) are wealthy and powerful and would open up all kinds of problems, both legally and ethically, as well as politically.  And Trump is one of those people, let's be honest.

But...

I am not the one bringing this up.  It's this administration, and they have to answer for it.

Elon Musk is Trump's closest advisor for the first part of his presidency and he essentially called him a pedophile and stated the fact that Trump was in these documents.  That didn't come from Trump opposition, but one of his allies, as a whistleblower, essentially.  So, Musk might be lying, but that needs to be addressed.

And Pam Bondi claimed that she had the list on her desk, and now all of a sudden there's no list.  There may have never been a list.  There may have been a list and it's now gone.  But whatever the case, she was either lying then or lying now, but that has to be accounted for.  These are people making official statements directly from Trump's cabinet.

And on top of all this, Trump ran on this issue and transparency behind it.  He directly said that he would release all this info and now he's not only refusing that, but threatening on the reporting of it.


I wouldn't be one bit surprised if there's a legitimacy to why you can't just dump the files, but the discrepancy and the constantly changing story is owed an explanation, because as is, this is starting to look sketchy as hell.   Politically, this is what happens when you get in bed with conspiracy theorists and give them the red meat -- they're gonna want to eat it at some point.

It's a cover up. I think we knew people on both sides were guilty a long time ago. Not sure what but something happened and now Trump seems desperate for us to forget about it.

Anyone find it odd that when Elon called out Trump the Democrats jumped on it to have the list released but now are silent when it's obviously being covered up? I mean, Pam said she had the list on her desk for review and it was disgusting but now is saying it never existed. How come Elon wasn't sued for the Trump allegation and now Steve Bannon?

There tons of servers, files, and hard evidence collected to prosecute two people who have no customers or victims? Prince Andrew paid out millions to keep a woman from telling her Epstein secrets just for the kindness of his heart?

It's painfully obvious Trump went into coverup mode but not really sure why? Maybe we will find out the truth in 50 years or so. This does not sit well with many of us who have voted 3 times for Donald Trump.

I never bought into the existence of a list. Bonding is a perpetual liar just like Trump. The only good part to any of it is seeing these nuts act surprised.

no one can figure out why Trump is trying to suppress information about Epstein's clients

(https://media1.tenor.com/m/NIS0Ge3RQdgAAAAC/suspect-guilty.gif)

Seems like Trump supporters are happy to just blame Pam Bondi, or Kash Patel, or Dan Bongino, or literally anyone except their beloved emperor.

Nope. Maybe Trump suck ups but most of us hold him accountable as they didn't do anything he doesn't know about. In fact, it's pretty apparent he directed them with his panicked outburst the other day. When people like Marjorie Taylor Green, Glenn Beck, Tucker Carlson and even nutball Alex Jones calls him out you know its bad.

Alan Dershowitz came out yesterday and said that not only has he has seen the names but knows why they are being suppressed. He can't release any names because he is under gag order but he said he fully supports releasing everything because some who have been accused are actually innocent and others going unknown are very guilty. He himself was accused and it's how he gained access to the Epstein files to prove his innocence. 

It will be interesting to see if Elon gets unalived because he seems like he is intent on exposing things. Hopefully not but I have no idea how much security he has.

Someone said it online, but I'm just going to parrot their words.

He said that he doubts that there is an Epstein list to release, but that means that all these people lied and exploited the rape of children -- and either needs to be answered for.

Either they lied before or they are lying now.  Either way Bondi needs to be disbarred. 

If they were lying then shouldn't Maxwell be released from prison? Not sure how she facilitated child sex without having clients.

I saw a Tucker Carlson clip and I kind of agree which is funny because we haven't agreed on much in a while now. He said that they have shut down the Epstein thing with no effort to try and hide it. This is basically a shout out to the insiders that they've got their backs no matter what. 

Facilitating circumstances where people could pedo on trafficked girls might not be the same as having a client list, like Santa Claus.  It might be unprovable or like he had lavish parties and those things were available....I just don't know.

Reports are swirling big time on MAGA sites that Dan Bongino and Pam Bondi have had a huge falling out regarding the Epstein files. They are saying he walked out and is threatening to resign.

By definition, no "3 time Trump voter" has ever done anything to hold him accountable.

Trump's latest "truth" about the list being created by Hillary and Obama and thus being unfit for release is new levels of thinking his supporters are stupid.  And for once, I don't think it's gonna work.

They drummed up this bullshit, put crazy people out of their depth in positions of power, and now can't placate them with "nothing to see here; move along".

This is completely of their own making.

Dave, I think you're overestimating his base.

Even now, their "criticism" is couched in the terms of "Glorious Leader, please address this issue created by one of your corrupt and incompetent underlings."  Any person who blames Pam Bondi is carrying water for Trump, full stop.  The cossacks work for the czar.

At most, Trump will release a smaller list "redacted for National Security Reasons" that contains only people Trump considers enemies.  Under no circumstances will Donald Trump release an "Epstein List" that contains his own name, despite the ample evidence of his affinity with Epstein.

When I heard this, I laughed my ass off...until I realized that the moronic right will probably eat that shit up like doggy treats.

I think Kash Patel and Dan Bongino have figured out the perfect way to make sure they stay on the MAGA grifter gravy train: you put the word out there that you "threatened to resign" if the list isn't released.  If you get fired for disloyalty, then it's just "I said I would resign if they didn't do [x] so they fired me."  And if nothing changes, well, you threatened to resign so obviously you Did Everything You Could.

There is a list pulled from records and tons of evidence. Alan Dershowitz isn't one to just fabricate things.  There is no way this isn't cover up and if you're paying attention most the MAGA talking  heads are killing Trump right now for his goofy weak attempt to walk it back and cover it up. Roger Stone, Laura Ingraham, Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, Shawn Ryan ... the list goes on and on.

The most logical answer is there are BIG names involved including leaders from other countries that were being blackmailed by the CIA. The CIA worked with cartels and killed past presidents so it isn't like they aren't capable. Pretending the evidence doesn't exist is a bigger conspiracy theory to me.

I fully agree that Trump getting any kind of pass is stupid.  Bondi is just doing what Trump wants.  ....that's her job.  She serves at the pleasure of the president.  It's not like she's acting unilaterally.

Supposedly Ghislaine Maxwell wants to spill the beans or be released. Haha ... might want to take out life insurance on her. These people are crazy.

And here we go (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcI74JDw8-U&t=46s): Trump is already laying the groundwork to release a "credible" list of names of Epstein's clients, which will somehow magically exclude Trump or any of his buddies.

As I already said: under no circumstances will Donald Trump release an Epstein list that contains his own name.

I think that the best way to do this is to create a bi-partisan commission that doesn't answer to the president of like 4 members.  Then, they can comb through the files privately and determine if there are grounds for legal action against anyone, while maintaining people's privacy, reputation, and to protect victims.  And then they can collectively release what they feel is appropriate based on facts and law.

You mean like the "bipartisan" January 6 commission that Republicans instantly tried to fill up with the same House Reps that supported J6 in the first place?  The same commission that they decried as fake when non-insurrectionist Republicans were appointed instead?

Give it up, Dave.  Any such commission that a GOP House would allow to exist would be controlled by Trumpists, which would necessarily make it a farce.

I know none of this will happen on the up and up.  But if you really wanted to find out what happened and re-review the case for potential conviction, while also wanting to protect victims and random people not to get doxxed and put in danger, this is how you'd do it.  I'm not even accusing Trump of guilt -- but they were obviously friends and that clouds the appearance of impartiality, so remove it from the equation and put a special prosecutor on it.  That's how it's supposed to work.

If Trump really wanted this, that's the solution.

I saw video of Trump saying that this all a hoax perpetrated by the Democrats.

It’s all right wing including him talking about it for years and years.  How dumb does he think his own people are?

There are lies and then there’s whatever this is.

They accept "It's because of the Democrat Party" as a valid excuse in every other circumstance, so why not try it now?

Remember, this is the same guy who directly said (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpFeFfXZiug&t=81s) if there's something bad about the current economy, that's the Biden Economy, but if there's something good, that's the Trump Economy.

After 100s of lawsuits and whatever else they could dig up, do you really think the Obama and Biden Administrations have been sitting on Donald Trump's guilty evidence without leaking it? If so, they are complicit in covering up for Trump too ... haha.

I have no doubt Trump is covering up but my biggest question is for whom and why? Anyone who is or was doing this to these kids needs to be outed. If our government falls because of it then maybe it needed to.

No one is accepting crap. You don't seem to look at anything political as objective. Get on conservative Twitter some time and the biggest talking heads are still calling him out for covering it. Matt Walsh is my personal favorite at the moment. Since he now said he no longer wants our support if we are buying into the hoax he has pissed off many more. Trump is imploding as he doesn't know how to deal with this. He is desperate for this to go away which means it won't. Unfortunately for him, protecting kids is a number one issue for most conservatives ... as it should be for everyone.  

Uh....seriously?   [insert "we're all trying to find the guy who did this" hot dog meme]

If there is anything that looks messy for people, maybe it's his good friend Donald Trump who is all over photos and on tape saying that Epstein likes 'em young.

It would look bad for Trump, even if not illegal.  He would get dragged through the mud.  Hearings are messy.

Take Hillary, for example.  They kept grilling and investigating Benghazi and it turned up nothing, but it ultimately led to the discovery of the email server and all that other stuff that basically lost her the election.  So, he doesn't want his name drummed up in whatever bullshit would come from uncovering it?

Could be. I just don't think so because I believe the Democrats would have released it. If Trump is guilty I believe most people would want him to pay the price. From what I'm seeing is that most of us support him when he makes good decisions and will call him out when he doesn't. That doesn't mean there isn't a group who will bend like the wind if Trump says so but I believe that cult is minimal.

Bullshit.  Trump admitted to be a sexual predator in the Access Hollywood tape. 

I want to address this, because I hear it and it's a fundamental misunderstand of how government worked up until Trump took over and weaponized departments.

The DOJ is a separate government entity that is appointed by the president and approved by congress, but not run by the president.  It would be inappropriate for Joe Biden to be involved in whether to release information on a criminal case to the public, especially one in which he has a political opponent on the other side.  There has been a wall there, historically.  Obviously, Trump tore that wall down and put cronies in that position to carry out his political will.  Now, he's stepping on a rake that he himself laid down, because he specifically weaponized the department and now his followers are out for blood...and now it's his blood.

"The Democrats" don't just release information because that's not how any of this works.  The DOJ isn't a political arm of the Democratic party, just because there's a Democrat in the White House.  This is how Trump is breaking everything and creating an authoritarian governmnet.  That's why all of this is so bad.

Well said, Dave.

The Democrats created a fake dossier and stories about Trump's connections to Russia. Not every single Democrat but enough of the leaders that qualifies as a Democrat hit on Trump. I'm not anyone buys into the fact the President, of any administration, isn't involved with what the FBI and CIA are doing.

With that said I fully agree if Trump is in there let his ass get busted. It looks like there is some embarrassing stuff about him in there but I don't know if it ties him to anything illegal but if it does I would light the fire to burn him. Pretty much my highest respect for politicians goes to DeSantis, Rubio, and Rand Paul but if anyone of them are in there I say let them burn too.

Setting aside your claims about whether this document was "fake": the Steele dossier that you are referring to is a political opposition research paper prepared by a private investigator for the presidential campaign of Hillary Clinton, who was not a government employee at the time.

This is not even remotely in the same league as a sitting president directing the Department of Justice (or any of its subsidiaries) to release information to hurt their political opposition.  Trump's open, repeated bragging/threats to use the executive branch to settle personal scores is far outside the norm of any previous administration, Democratic or Republican.

But you probably already know this.  This is the same song and dance that conservatives have been doing for a decade, where you are chanting "LOCK HER UP" one day and screaming "It's outrageous to prosecute your political opponents for alleged crimes" the next.

That's a huge stretch to say Hillary wasn't a government employee at the time. It's semantics at best. Trump is an arsehole and the democrats weaponized against Trump. Neither one is a good look.

My honest opinion is they are all crooks and get away with whatever they can. The powers that be who control everything at the top keep both sides in check but never allow either side to actually enforce anything. If one side falls they all fall. The Epstein files are the latest example.

It's not a "huge stretch," it's literally fact.
Or do you think Mike Pence is a government employee right now?

No one is denying that "the Democrats" weaponized against Trump, exactly as they did against Mitt Romney, John McCain, George W. Bush, and Bob Dole.  Everyone weaponizes against their election opponents.  But again, that is not the same thing as abusing the powers of your office to leak damaging information about your election opponent.  And given that Hillary Clinton had no office, and the Steele dossier you are complaining about originated from a private investigator, not the DOJ, your accusations about "both sides do it" are baseless.

This is always the excuse for every outrageous new example of Trump's corruption.
"they're all crooks, hey look over there"

Lol ..not at all. I've never thought Trump is squeaky clean and if it's shown he was using girls provided through Epstein I hope they fry his arse. Same with any other person with an R next them. I'm for all of them being outed but I know that will never happen because behind the scenes, they always cover for each other.  Politics in this day and age is nothing more than professional wrestling. What we see in front of the cameras and what's actually going on are very much two different things. We used to have media to protect us but they have all been bought out.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the "we didn't vote for an angel-in-chief" excuse.

I'm just puzzled why, 8 years later, conservatives have suddenly started caring about sexual abuse from the "Grab them by the pussy" guy.
You knew who he was when you voted for him (three times).

Please don't tell me that this is a "I can accept raping adult women, but I draw the line at sex trafficking of underage girls" situation.

Well I do realize we live in the fake "me too" judgment era but back in the day, and probably still now, there were plenty of women who hung around guys with money and didn't see anything wrong with being sexualized. He wasn't talking about women walking down the street.

You can try and impose your view of today's judgement zone but I'm guessing you would have fainted had you known how people like Frank Sinatra and others treated the women who flocked to them. Heck, the beloved Sean Connery talked about slapping women to put them in place.

In fact, when I went to school in the 70s and 80s we would grab girls' butts and stuff and never got into trouble. If a girl or woman was offended they would slap you, possibly call you a creep, and then move on. If you were attractive you typically got a way with it. What this means is most of your fathers most likely assaulted women at some time as well.

^ I agree.

You will have a bad time trying to hold previous figures to the standards of today, on race, sex, gender, -- even slang words, etc.

Trump said it in 2005. Let's not confuse it with the Rat Pack or even our youth. I remember it when it was different but it was way before his quote.

Yeah, also, character is character.  This is not some new information.  Trump is fundamentally a bad person, political policy aside.  He's not a kind person.  He's not a truthful person.  He's not giving and benevolent, trying to make the world better for those around him.  Everyone knows this.  It's just that some of the country thought that they could benefit from his selfishness because it would be good for America, too.

I'm not struggling with Trump being a shitheel like some on the right seem to.  He doesn't, and never did, care about the wellbeing of anyone else.  This is apparent by his entire business career, his political career, his various lawsuits, and what he says on a day to day basis.  He's a scumbag and we all know it.

I disagree. Do you know why women like Sofia Vergara, Mel B, Heidi Klum etc are judges on America's got Talent? Because when they tried to use younger women like Julianna Hough and Gabrielle Union they went to HR about everything. They claimed toxic work environment, racism, sexism etc. Women in Generation X give it as well as they get it and don't create the drama but younger women seem to look for reasons to play the victim making themselves a liability.

Aside from that every rock musical group had videos that included exploiting women as well did the 80/90s teen movies. Generation X was raised different.

No we don't.  We live in an era where the rare case of a false accusations is used to discredit any woman who comes forward. 

Have there been false accusations?  Yes, but they are rare. 

If the same woman accuses multiple men and none of the men have other accusers than it is possible she is lying.

But if a dozen woman are all accusing the same man, he is definitely guilty.  Could one or two of those women be lying and he only raped 10 women instead of 12, that is possible, but he is definitely a rapist.

In the case of Trump we don't even need to exam his accusers.  He has on multiple instances of admitted (bragged) about being a sexual predator. 

All of this well before 2005 exactly as I said.  Trump didn't give that quote in the good Ole 80s. That's my point.

I have a copy of my great-grandmother's marriage license.  She got married in New Orleans in 1924 at the age of 16.  And this wasn't uncommon; teen girls have been getting married off to adult men for centuries.  So why is everyone getting so worked up about Jeffrey Epstein arranging sex with underage girls when historically it was quite common?  I mean, since you're happy to make excuses for sexual assault "based on historical norms," why not also make excuses for having sex with underage girls while you're at it?

Furthermore, to put this in the proper historical context:
Frank Sinatra has been dead for a quarter-century.
You voted for Donald Trump as president 9 months ago.

This entire line of rape apologia is disgusting.  The multiple women that Trump sexually assaulted absolutely did see something wrong with what he did.  And it's absurd for you to play this "fake me too" card when Trump is on tape BRAGGING about sexually assaulting women!

I've tried my best to stay out of this, but this stuff I just can't ignore:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoC-cUmYUaU

The President of the USA shares a fake video of a political opponent being arrested and jailed (possibly a future opponent if he decides to break the twice elected rule, which opens up him being a future contestant), while spewing out a big steaming pile of bullshit that he was involved in a conspiracy during his elections (with zero proof of it).

This is deplorable, dangerous, racist, psychopathic behavior - at best. It's the exact same kind of crap that the worst Dictators around the world (including his good mate Putin) push out to the mushrooms who are dumb enough to believe it... right up until they realize all of their basic rights have been taken away. By that stage, it's way too late. Democracy by that stage is dead and buried.

I don't think the typical crowd he is around is from the Me Too era. The widely successful American Pie was released in 1999 and National Lampoon's Van Wilder in 2002 so the open sexual trend was still very much around.   The Me Too movement happened in 2017 and prior to that, Hollywood just accepted perverts like Harvey Weinstein and Trump.

You should have been a lawyer because you love arguing silly things. Not sure who you "vote" for but I can assure you there has only been one person who has walked this earth without sin in their life. If you voted for Kamala you voted for a woman who slept her way to the top. Not sure how being a whore is better than being one who takes advantages of them but I'm sure you can justify to yourself why it is different. I'm not as hypocritical  as you and can admit I voted for an arsehole because many of his policies align. That's why politics are about. I have a Pastor I can turn to for Biblical advice. If it was about who has good character then Mike Pence or Mike Huckabee would be president and that will never happen in this country today.   

Just like when he said he would deport Elon ... he says and does stupid crap that will never happen but triggers the left. He doesn't have unchecked power regardless of what the liberal left wonts you to believe. Congress has all the real power.

If you think a supposed "whore who slept her way to the top" is no different than "an adult man who had sex with child victims of sex trafficking," then why are you in this thread acting like you give a shit about some Epstein List?

So why are you and yours engaging in all this fake performative outrage about Epstein when you will happily look the other way on Trump's involvement with him?
You didn't vote for an angel-in-chief, right?  Trump's policies are what they are, regardless of what he did with Epstein.

True, there isn't a person who is without sin.  Both Adolph Hitler and Oskar Schindler have sinned.  Doesn't mean they are moral equals. 

Trump is acting so friggin' weird about this that I'm starting to think that there's more to it involving him directly, simply on his behavior alone.

Now that his his good friend Rupert Murdoch's newspaper (New Your Journal) has backed up with an article saying Trump is all over the Epstein List after he's already threatened to sue Rupert for the previous story about the birthday note...

Will he also threaten to deport Rupert and Lachlan Murdoch? So much for the USA Constitution's First Amendment of (real) Freedom of Speech.

You assume he is "an adult man who had sex with child victims of sex trafficking," because you want it to be true. It's like a drug for you to see him fail. Hahaha

Like I said many times now ... the evidence I see is that Dems did not release that information when they had it and yet they attacked him every single way possible. It's become pretty obvious he is in the report but as of now no one has shown any evidence of wrongdoing. If they do then he needs to rot in jail. Not hard to understand. I want the guilty all to burn but I do realize not every single person who knew Epstein is a pedofile.

Kind of a weird analogy when I was comparing known sins of our presidential candidates. To dumb it down .... no being a whore isn't worse or even equal to what Hitler did. If Trump was actually molesting kids it is pretty close in my opinion.

I said that. He's been in some crazy situations for various reasons but I've never seen him desperate to try and move on from something.  Regardless of if he is guilty or is being forced to cover for others .. there is something going on.

LOL ... him saying he will deport someone is basically him exercising his free speech. Most people with a functioning IQ knows he cannot just do that.

Most people with a functioning IQ knows Trump has deported US citizens to countries that the person has never even visited even when there is a court order specifically forbidding their deportation.  If Trump calls Todd Lyons and tells him to deport Musk to South America, ICE agents will follow that order. 

Threats are not protected free speech. 

Okay, what Trump has done is way worse than anything Gary Hart or John Edwards ever did. 

I disagree. He is deporting "illegal aliens" per the law. No law gives him permission to randomly deport people.

I actually liked John Edwards. Gary Hart was a goofball.

I'm kind of curious how liberals spin this on Trump.

Yesterday, a liberal Florida federal judge (appointed by Obama) on Wednesday declined to release additional grand jury documents from the criminal investigation into Jeffrey Epstein, thus marking the first roadblock in the Justice Department’s efforts to quell the public backlash over the handling of the case.

It really seems like both sides are doing their best to cover these crimes up while trying to appeal to their base!

Stop both-sidesing shit.

There's a completely normal reason not to just open up a full investigation into a pedo ring, without having evidence to charge people, so you can't just release a bunch of names.  That's fine.  I'm not sure if that's happening in every case, but there's a case to be made for privacy of people who happened to know Epstein but were involved in no criminal wrongdoing.

It's not a reasonable reason to campaign on releasing the files, fill every cabinet position with sycophant loyalists for the sole intention of releasing the files, while throwing red meat at your conspiracy-addled base, blaming your opposition of being a secret cabal of pedophiles.  Meanwhile, you're BFFs with the guy running the show and have credible sexual assault allegations related to the case.  Then, to appoint a head of the DOJ that answers directly to you inform you that your name is all over the files and then to use that to immediately kill the investigation and close the files.  ...then to lie about it.


Jesus fucking Christ on a cracker, open your eyes. 


I'm not saying Trump is a pedo.  But he certainly and definitely is now actively covering this up because his name is involved.  Republicans are a fucking joke.

It is not an agree/disagree opinion.  IT IS A FACT.  US Citizens and legal residents have been deported.  He doesn't have permission to deport them, but the law doesn't stop Trump.

Here's an interesting article (https://archive.ph/x5Kvb) on MAGA's obsession with pedophilia and exactly zero other sex crimes:

One of the most telling aspects of this MAGA obsession is the focus on the punishment of the “elites” who are behind it. At a basic level, the victims never really take center stage. And that is the heart of it. In the MAGA world, pedophilia isn’t a crime or abuse that needs to be stopped. It is more a legitimating tool which provides a license for cleansing acts of retributive violence and revenge. This is what’s at the end of the story in every far-right/MAGA conspiracy: a wave of eliminationist, cleansing violence led by someone like Trump in which the bad guys, the liberals, the Democrats, the globalist elites, etc etc are wiped out. And that’s why whether it’s Pizzagate, QAnon or the more outlandish versions of the Jeffrey Epstein conspiracy theories, they always keep coming back to pedophilia. Because pedophilia summons a level of disgust, anger and revulsion that makes the perpetrators seem uniquely inhuman, less than human, people against whom total violence is acceptable and necessary. In other words, these conspiracy theories are systems of thought that provide sanction and legitimation for what you want to do to your enemies. They’re about the enemies. The role of pedophilia in these stories is just a means to an end, making what you want to do with your enemies okay.

This is obvious to most people who’ve observed these alternative worlds for any length of time. But it’s worth stepping back and noting how this dynamic plays out in the current news environment. It’s why MAGA can be really, really obsessed with vengeance against any of Epstein’s co-conspirators but basically couldn’t care less about the prospect of Trump raping or assaulting any other number of women or even an 18 year old. Who cares? None of that matters. Pedophilia — or what’s technically called ephebophilia, a sexual attraction to people in their mid to late teens — isn’t something they really care about in itself. They’re obsessed about it as a legitimator of a certain level of hatred and mass violence.

I am not sure if that is completely correct.  Most people have a greater problem with crimes against children than crimes against adults. 

The point is that the actual crime is tangential.

The QAnon-adjacent MAGA types want firing squads for the guy who allegedly paid a 17-year-old to have sex, but when it comes to the guy who allegedly assaulted and raped an 18-year-old, well, girls are just making up stories in the #metoo era and besides, Frank Sinatra used to talk about slapping a woman.

They don't care about the victims, or really even about the crimes.  Just like "illegal" immigration, the entire exercise is just an excuse for them to punish their enemies.  Trump promised them that they were going to get to lock up a cabal of elite Democrats who were trafficking kids, and they want the scalps they were promised.

Hahahah ... you people are so one sided it's comical.

Supposedly Trump is going to be dropping names and you guessed it, they are Democrats. I really hope he does because if he does start outing people then they will do the same. Hopefully the dominoes are falling into place although I never get my hopes up too high.

My prediction is that when Bondi finally releases the files, all the MAGA faithful will have their names redacted and anyone Trump has a grudge against will be visible. 

(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cee69673be95ca684bfc65758ddd65a30fe092bf77cfc485e953270f36ea0265.png?w=800&h=905)

Trump's former personal lawyer is meeting with Ghislaine Maxwell now, probably so she can get in front of a mic and say "OOPS ALL DEMOCRATS" in exchange for a pardon.

It's now been leaked by the Democrats that this is the alleged birthday card from Trump to Epstein mentioned by The Wall Street Journal.

(https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/a62362232e6cca84ec02f2da23433641?src)

Trump says it's a fake.

Who do you believe?

If Trump said that water was wet, I'd have to get two corroborating experts in fluid dynamics to back it up before I bought a single word.

I write poetry...occasionally, and not necessarily very good. One of the few that I actually come back to over the years, I wrote in 1987, right after I got out of the military. I was watching TV, and there was a news report about a legal conflict going on between a hotel owner and a labor union. The labor union was talking about how the hotel is trying to avoid paying them for the work. The hotel owner was interviewed. and he started talking about how the union was trying to take advantage of the hotel, and how they didn't "really" do the work, and how they just want his money.

That hotel owner was named Donald J. Trump. The short poem he inspired that day back in '87 was titled "Flycatcher."

"I catch more lies
than a spider catches flies
Snaring each in a web of it's own making
Captured mid flight
by a posture or a slight
Foul tidbits for the taking"

If it is a fake, they've done a pretty good job with the signature. A few examples of his past letters have surfaced, and they look the same - check out the last examples in this story.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-09/donald-trumps-drawings-and-letters-before-jeffrey-epstein/105753198

(https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/7c4d0fdc9f2f9e1fcf419fce0f28fbe2?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=720&cropW=540&xPos=11&yPos=0&width=862&height=1149)

(https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/bb9f6038c8bb4453e591d26931833326?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=1572&cropW=1179&xPos=0&yPos=42&width=862&height=1149)

(https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/9f408ff8d68caa27d29139f8aa031bae?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=760&cropW=570&xPos=0&yPos=20&width=862&height=1149)

That was a joke.  It's obviously, OBVIOUSLY not a fake.

It's so deeply addled in conspiracy that someone would go back and plant a fake letter 22 years ago and publish it in a book with a bunch of other real letters.

But also, in addition to the fire, it's a bunch of smoke.  Donald Trump was the guy's close friend, a known pervert, and a known sexual assaulter -- plus all of his statements.  He knew.  Obviously.



But to see these Republican lawmakers all of a sudden clam up and say it's not him.  They think their voters are fucking idiots.  And they're right.  It's really amazing that the people who were tearing down everything to go after Epstein thought it was a good idea to elect his rapist best-friend.  And now the guy is covering and they're just OK with it.  Ridiculous.