The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I'm directing this to Lil B and Frimp and anyone else who has experience with aquariums.

I'm looking into starting to plan out a freshwater aquarium.  A few things...
- How big is a good size for a first-timer tank?  I saw a nice 72-gal tank at the store, but I'm worried it might be too much for a rookie.
- What percentage of the tank should be taken up by ornaments or plant life? 
- What's the rule of thumb on how many fish a tank can handle?
- How do I know which fish will get along with which and which will kill each other?
- Anything I should look for/stay away from that will make my life easier in maintaining a tank?  I'm insanely lazy...
- Any products, filters, feeders, lighting, etc that I should be aware of?

I'll post more as I think of them.  I'll probably be looking to set this up in the next few months, but not before I move in to my house.  Any help is great.

- How big is a good size for a first-timer tank?  I saw a nice 72-gal tank at the store, but I'm worried it might be too much for a rookie.


I used to say 30-55,But I believe the bigger the tank,the more forgiving it is.

- What's the rule of thumb on how many fish a tank can handle?
In Freshwater,the More air you have in the tank,the more fish you're able to have in it.It kind of depends on the size of the fish,a 55 gallon,maybe 2 Large oscars,50-75 guppies?

Salt rule of thumb,for every inch of fish,2 square inches of water.

- How do I know which fish will get along with which and which will kill each other?

You can but a book,and go to a pet store,that tends to know their fish.They will tell you,well,normally they will nip at eachother...or whatever.Freshwater is usually broken down into
Community - Generally peaceful fish
Semi Aggresive - They tend to nip at some other fish can go with most community fish
Aggressive - These tend to be Dominant,territorial fish.They typically don't play well with community fish,and may need to be in a Aggressive tank.

- Anything I should look for/stay away from that will make my life easier in maintaining a tank?
A consistant Temp,the fluxuation in Temp. cause disease.
I feel the bigger tank,wont fluxuate as fast,(temp.,ammonia,PH,)

IE,in a ten gallon aquarium,you may need to change 2-4 gallons a week.You miss that,Your fish will go down hill fast.In a 55 Gallon tank,you may need to change maybe 5-8 gallons a week,but if you forget or get busy,Your fish can adapt better.There is more room for error.

A good Biological filter.

If you're going to over a 55 Gallon,I'd consider spending the money on a Wet/Dry,Sump filter.(they're the same thing,called by many different names)
They require little maintenance,and do an excelent job.


- Any products, filters, feeders, lighting, etc that I should be aware of?

I sort of combined this with the above

I Can give you basics,Frimp is probably the Freshwater specialist.He can probably fill in some blanks that I forgot..

Thanks, B - keeping this thread bookmarked!

A 72 gallon tank would not be a problem. Generally, larger tanks are easier to maintain than smaller tanks. My first tank was a 55 gallon. Thats what I have now, but will be getting a larger one this year to accomidate my angelfish as they grow.

The main trick is filtration and airation. I have 2 filters on mine that filter 100 gallons each every hour. So, it gets completely filtered around 4 times per hour. I have 3 airpumps for bubbles.

I have recently realized that the more plants/ornamentation you have in the tank, the more relaxed they are which is a good thing. I only had 3 plants and the sunken ship, and I was having problems with fish fighting. Now, I have 7 plants, and I havent had any fights since.

Depending on the type of fish you want, it varies on how many you can put in it. Example...With angelfish, you should only have one per 10 gallons of water. I have 7 angels, but they are small right now. I wouldnt recommend oscars and guppies. The oscars will eat the guppies.

Lil B is right. Most pet stores know their stuff when it comes to stocking the tank. A little test I use to determine if they do is to ask them if you can put tiger barbs in with angelfish. If they say no, they are right. Tigerbarbs are aggressive, and will shred the fins of the angels. I've only had one tell me yes, and that was at Walmart. Also, at Pet Smart, they have the temperments written on the cards, like for example, angelfish would say "tropical/semi aggressive" Or, oscars would say "aggressive"

Pet Smart is ok, but I'd recommend going to an exclusive fish store if there is one near you.

It isnt necessary to "cycle" a freshwater tank. But, its a good idea to get the water temperature to about 83 degrees. Just start with tetras. After a week, you can add angels, groumais or whatever else you want. Keep it at 83 degrees, and you will never have problems with diseases such as "ich"

The only chemicals that I use are "Stresscoat" and aquarium salt.

Stresscoat removes the chlorines in tap water and helps the fish develop a "slime coat" on their bodies. There are other brands that are just as good, but I've only used stresscoat.

The aquarium salt helps them breathe easier and helps them heal if they get hurt.

When you add fish, pour the fish and the water from the pet store into a bowl, and use a net to put them into the tank. Dont put anyone elses water into your tank.

http://www.freshwater-aquarium-fish.com/

That link will help you too. If there's any other questions you have, ask. Also, when I think of more, I'll post it too.

Its very rewarding to have a fish tank.

I've identified two fish I want already -

(http://hank.keleher.com/images/misc/bala.jpg)
(http://mrdiscus.bizland.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/goldnugget12503.jpg)

I've always wanted those sharks, but I hear they grow to be up to 8 inches long.  The other ones are to help keep the tank clean! :)

(Am I retarded?)

Nope,I'm out of the loop...bala shark? and plecostomus (sp?)

nothing wrong with it,I used to have (waaay back in the day) I forgot the name,it's a shark that's all black except for it's red fins....(red tail shark )

I like the info on this site...(I set it to the fresh water fish...)
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.cfm?pcatid=830

The Bala Sharks are nice to have. If you get the 72 gallon tank, they will be fine even full grown. The plecos however you may want to wait until you have an established community or they wont have anything to eat. The plecos can get up to 18 inches long though. They can also eat any paint off plastic ornaments. There is a Chinese algae eater that grows to only about 6 inches. Do NOT get any of them. They will attatch themselves to fish in the tank.

For keeping the tank clean, I have 4 of these emerald cory catfish. There are several different breeds of corys, but they all pretty much look like these but with different colors, and they get to about 1.5 inches full grown. (the picture is pretty much actual size for a full grown one.) They will eat anything that touches the bottom of the tank from food to fish crap to dead fish. I noticed a very significant difference in the filters after I got them. I used to have to clean them once a week. Now, its once a month.
(http://home.comcast.net/~Celtic_wanderer/images/p_89782.jpg)

One thing I do know about fish Brian. Don't get that sucker fish (I don't know it's name) until you have had the tank for a bit. It lives off those deposits and until you build them up some the fish has nothing to feed off of.

Thats a good site. I just bookmarked it!

I've never bought anything from (Foster smiths) liveaqauria.com...I like they have a good reference about how big fish get,who they should be put with,ETC,ETc.

I've bought a few things from Thatpetplace.com
(http://www.thatpetplace.com/MainPro/IndexFish.aspx)

The protien skimmer,I made,started working too well.I thought I better go buy one,I got a good deal on it.I've also bought a couple of meds,and a UV sterilzer.The UV sterilizer was damn near $75 cheaper,that was even after I paid shipping and handling...Now If I could just get my salt from them cheaper.(The shipping rates on  drop shipped HEAVY objects is Outragous.)

Ohh One other little thing,When you get your tank,try to place it out of direct sunlight...Algae Bloom...Algae is a constant Battle for mine,because..
A.)It sits in front of a window (northside,so not soo bad)
b.)On a nice day,If I open my front door form 10 am till about 2pm,it lets direct sunlight hit my tank
c.) If I leave my bedroom door open,The southside window lets sun hit the tank...

(I was sort of forced to put it there,it was the place close to plug ins...)

I'm not comfortable buying fish online. You could say that you want a specific fish, and the one they send you could be sick or hurt. I'd rather see what I buy. But, supplies are another story.

I dont have much of a problem with algae. It forms on my airstones and filtertubes, but nothing else. I use a chemical called "AlgaeFix" I didnt mention it earlier because I forgot about it. It will make your tank cloudy for about a day, but it kills the algae. You have to scrub the dead algae off though.

Live plants are nice to have, but they promote algae, and if you ever have to treat for algae or anything else, you have to take them out. Fake plants with wires inside rust, and fake plants with leaves made of cloth will grow algae. I use fake plants that are 100% plastic.

Oh...The plexiglass that seperates the light from the water gets algae built up on it. I havent discovered a way to prevent it. I dont even think about until I notice that the tank isnt lit up as much as it should be. Then, I just take the hoods and clean them with hot water and a scrub brush.

Also, when you clean anything, be it filters, filter cartridges, hoods, or anything else, only use water to clean it.

I tottally agree about buying fish online...
I want to see how it interacts with other fish in the tank.Is it swimming funny,does it hide alot? is it going to bury itself? Is it free swimmer? Stuff like that...

My dad and I had several tanks when I was growing up. 

The main advice I can give is to start with cheap fish.  We killed evevrything we put in there for a good 6 months.  My dad was freaking.

Once we got it down, we kept nice aquariums for years.

This is true, but there is a way around it. You can set up your water with the correct amount of Stresscoat and salt, and make sure you have better than adequate filtration and airation. Get it to around 83 degrees (I use a strip thermometer on the outside of the tank as well as one that is in the water) Then, start with some tetras. This can all be accomplished in one day.

Then after about a week, take a sample of water to your fish store (Pet Smart is good for this) and ask them to test your water. If it is ok...it should be...but if it isnt, get the chemicals to treat it. Treat it, wait another week and have the water tested again. At that point, you should have no problem with the more expensive fish.

When Frimp says salt,NOT TABLE SALT,non iodized salt....

With my marine tank,I've already got all the test stuff.My salt mix is about $20,which makes about 50 gallons of saltwater.

When I get to the house,I'll post pics of my 2 new fish my sister bought me a coupl of weeks ago....

Yes. Just ask for "aquarium salt for a freshwater tank"

Lil B- I saw the store you mentioned, and thought "That looks familiar. Nah, it can't be."

Then I looked at the map for "visit our retail store" (http://www.thatpetplace.com/MainPro/visit.aspx) and guess what? That is right around the corner from Armstrong's corporate HQ! I drive past that place at least once a month.
I've actually been in there a few times to buy stuff for my dogs.

I've always wanted to go to that store...I was going to ask if that was near you..(but I didn't want to look stupid....so what's new..)

The pics of the 2 fish my sister bought me...
(http://xs67.xs.to/pics/06063/100_9573m.jpg)
Arc eye Hawkfish...Everytime I Pointed the camera near him,he'd run go hide under a rock...
(http://xs67.xs.to/pics/06063/100_9569m.jpg)
Yellow Coris...It's hard to keep him in frame...

OK, that settles it.  When you guys come down for a game next year, I'm going to drag you both to the pet store so you can tell me what I need.

I'm so confused...

Well, a stupid idea....but It may help un confuse you....Go to wal mart or Pets smart,and buy a $5 fish bowl,or a 10 gallon aquarium,and a some start right (Declorinator) a small filter .If you get a ten gallon,buy a small heater.

Buy a couple of small,cheap fish...It wont take up much room..To see if you want a big Tank...you'll have a bettter idea on if you want a big tank...

It will be more work,having a small bowl or tank.I think you'll get used to doing some maintenance.You'll get your feet wet without wanting the big tank..Also you wont have to drop a bunch of cash either...We can tell you all these things,but intil you get a tank,and get it going...it just sounds confusing...

If I ask Frimp about his biological filter,or a power head...He'll know what i'm talking about...If you don't have a tank...It doesn't make a lot of sense...

I'm afraid that Frimp and I are saying buy a bigger Aquarium,and You'll go get a big tank...then not be happy at all....

Damn,I've not been able to type,or spell all day...I think i've got rental fingers.

Brian, it only sounds complicated because we provided you with a plethora of information based on years of experience. It really isnt difficult at all. Just print this post and take it with you to the pet store. It really is easier to maintain a larger tank.

These are the steps to use no matter what size tank you want.

1 Purchase tank, stand, gravel, Stresscoat, Aquarium salt, hoods, lights, filter and cartridges, heater, thermometers, air pumps with airstones and (or) srtips, hoses for them, tank backdrop (picture background) and a net. Ornamentation and plants too, but it isnt necessary right at first.

Note...You can get most of these items in a package depending on where you go. Walmart and Pet Smart have a 55 gallon kit with everything except gravel and the tank's backdrop. The stand is usually sold seperately though. If you want something larger than a 55, you'll likely have to get everything seperately.

A declorinator usually comes with the packages, but I recommend Stresscoat. It is a dechlorinator, but it also is good for the fishes bodies.

Filters- When you buy filters, they usually come with cartridges with them. Each filter box has a number on it. example, 60 or 80 or 120. That number is the number of gallons of water that filter will process each hour. If you get the 72 gallon tank, I would get at least 2 filters that process 100 or more gallons per hour.

Heaters have the amount of water that they can heat printed on the box. I'd recommend a heater with the temperature numbers printed on the thermostat. Just for a point of reference.

Air pumps come in all different sizes. You can get a large one with 2 hose outlets on it. That is 2 lines, but only one plug in a powerstrip.

2 Once you get it home, set the stand and tank up exactly where you want it before you put water in it. Put the backdrop on the outside of the tank. (Allow about 8 inches from a wall so you'll have room for the filters) Then, put the gravel in it. Then, put the hoods and lights on it. They have places in the back of them for filters. Then, put the filters on with the cartridges in them, and fill the filters up with water. Then, plug them in. Then, put the heater and thermometers in. Then, follow the instructions on the Stresscoat bottle and the aquarium salt container.

Let it heat up to 83 degrees, then you are ready for ornaments, plants and fish. I recommend tetras at first.

Once you are ready to add more fish, use this link. It is a compatibility chart.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/fwcompatibility_chart.cfm