The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Man...

Bubba Crosby being injured, Carl Pavano having surgery again, Posada getting injured last night, and the inefficiency of both Johnson and Rivera have me pushing the panic button pretty hard right now. We showed a lot of heart in that huge comeback over the Rangers... looks like that was our last hurrah for a while.

Happens every year, they take awhile to get going, although the injuries are pretty ridiculous at this point. They have about 13 starters who are on the DL or WOULD go on the DL if everyone else wasn't on it.

As far as Posada goes, I don't think he's really hurt, I think him and Johnson just finally snapped and Torre had to separate them. Randy is a giant child who doesn't like Posada. Last year in games where Flaherty caught him I think he was something like 12-2 with an ERA under 2. With Posada he was like 5-7 with an ERA over 5. Now, for a TWO PITCH PITCHER, that's just ridiculous unless Jorge keeps calling for the knuckler.

I mean, Tim Wakefield's ERA wouldn't rise if Jorge caught him(excluding passed balls).

Damon(hurt himself trying to tackle a wall, plays but has no power anymore)
Giambi(hurt his neck but will play because Miguel Cairo is his backup)
Randy(is either a child or maksing an injury. I honestly don't know anymore)
Chacon(hurt his leg hence the shelling by Texas, will miss his start today)
Carl Pavano(out for the season, but is that such a bad thing?)
Matsui(out for the year)
Sheffield(milking his boo boo because the Yankees didn't pick up his option, could be out another month)
Jorge(supposedly, back spasms)
Farnsworth(back problems)
Sturtze(done for the year, but that's a good thing)
Proctor(hurt but still pitches because Torre is evil)
Villone(hurt but still pitches)
Williams(will miss a few games due to being 95 years old)

So that's 13 right there, 12 regulars. They will probably rebound and make the playoffs, but it's never fun to watch such a lull like this.

Point made, Edge...

But why do you hate Torre so much? I admit he's not the perfect manager, but I'd say he's gotta have some managerial talent to win 1000 games with any team.

I also had no idea Proctor was injured.

When did that happen?

Here is me not shedding a tear.  Sorry, but this could not happen to a better team.  I love it when a team like the Yanks over pay for old players who break down.  Of course they will simply spend more.    It is what makes baseball boring for me anymore.

at least your team can win, were getting swept by colorado in colorado, doesn't get any worse then this.

Matsui is not old and no one really broke down. Sheffield was involved in a collission as was Damon and Posada. Giambi is fine now, Crosby is 29 Farnsworth is 30 or so and Chacon got a line drive off his leg.

Considering that the Yankees haven't won anything since 2000, their spending shouldn't make you avoid baseball unless you weren't much of a fan of the sport to begin with.

I use to be huge into baseball, but the strike of '94 did it for me.  I never made it back.  I simply am tired of listening to players who make millions cry about money & needing to feed their families, while it cost a family of 4 $200 bucks to go to a game.  Why people turn out for baseball games anymore does confuse me.


As for the Yanks..

I have also just grown tired of everytime there is a quality FA on the market their name is brought up as being the team most likely to land them.  I simply wish baseball would level the playing field so lesser teams like Oakland have a chance to actually keep the players they develop, instead of being an major league farm team for the top teams.

The Yanks may not have won anything since '00 but they have been there every year with a chance.

Dlphins, that's frankly not true...

Yes, they are there every year, I'll grant you that, but they certainly don't scoop up every quality FA. If that was true, we'd have a pitching rotation that included Greg Maddux, Tim Hudson (I think) and Pedro Martinez. They were all big FAs a little while back, and had Yankee rumors surrounding them (with the exception of Hudson)... but no trigger was pulled. Same thing on the other side of the plate with guys like Beltran, Juan Pierre, etc etc.

I can understand your reason for having a distaste for all baseball since the strike. Fortunately, I was not old enough to be disastrously affected by it. However, your arguments against the Yankees are pretty flimsy. Quit relying on stereotypes and newspaper clippings... find out some stuff for real.

Its more than true, its fact.  How many other teams have had a 200 million dollar payroll?  How many other team can sign all their own home grown products & sign other teams best players?  Not to meantion players from abroad.

When is the last time the Yanks lost a home grown FA they wanted to keep?

They get who they want most & if the player fails, then they simply move them & take the hit.  Many other teams cannot do that..

They wanted A-Rod & they got him.  They wanted Giambi.  They got him.  They wanted Damon.  They got him.. They wanted Johnson.  They got him.  They wanted Sheffield.  They got him.  They wanted Mussina.  They got him.  They wanted Pavano  They got him.

Need I go on? 

 They also can over pay for average talent.  How much did they give Karsay to be a middle reliever?  21 million for 4 years.  Yea, you see that all the time.  I've yet to bring up what they paid Jaret Wright a broken down pitcher who has had major arm problems.  So far he has taken home13 million in two years.  Again how many teams have the money available to offer up that type cash for a player like him?

So they missed out on Beltran.  One player out of how many?  Frankly I do not recall they Yanks going after him that hard.

The fact is.  If the Yank want the player bad enough then they simply can pony up more cash.  They have it & other teams do not.

Not what I said.  I basically said the Yanks are always in the running for the best players.  Not that they always get them, but usually they get who they want most.

Hudson would have been a Yank had the Yanks actually had some minor league talent to trade for him when the A's had him.  He has never been a FA.


First of all I do not get my opinion from sterotypes & newspaper clippings & before you start telling someone else to get their facts straight.  Get your straight first.

  I'm way older than you since you cannot recall much about the strike of '94.  My arguement against the Yanks is more than flimsy.  Its fact.  Just because you choose to stick your head in the sand & ignore it does not mean it is not there.

You do not believe me.  Just take a look at the players they have acquired over the last 10 years & the price they paid them.  Now take a look at the other teams.

Here is a little info for ya. 

The Yanks have the top 3 highest paid players in baseball for '06.  All making over 20 Million.

4 out of the top 6 are Yanks
5 out of the top 11 are Yanks
7 out of the top 25 are Yanks

Closes team  has 3.

Top 25 Baseball Salaries (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/top25.aspx?year=2006)


They are paying 3 players more than what 9 teams are paying their entire team. If you add in Mussina salary then its 16 teams. 


So in closing.  Please do not sit there & ramble off some shit that what I say is not true, when in fact you have no idea as to what you are ramblin on about.

I cannot believe someone actually tried to defend that the Yanks do not get whomever they want.

By the end of the summer they will have at least 2 more top players who make a bundle load of cash.

One thing that drives me a little crazy are rants above that basically state that the Yankees are ruining baseball.  The bottom line with any sport is winning - and the Yankees have become the American League version of the Atlanta Braves.  For all of their spending, the Yankees haven't won anything since the days when their farm system looked like an all-star team.  They really started opening their pockets with the Giambi thing - they haven't won a thing outside of the division and one World Series nose dive since.

When the Yankees are over spending for the Farnsworths of the world, does it make teams like the Blue Jays have to overspend to get a guy like BJ Ryan?  Sure.  But it's not the Yankees fault, it's the owners and player's union.

The Yankees have the resources and are operating within the rules.  One thing that never gets brought up in these talks are the funds that go to other teams.  The Detroit Tigers, in 2003, took a huge amount of money that the Yankees had to pay into the luxary tax.  The result?  Three of the Tigers starting four pitchers are being paid with a good portion of that money, as is the starting short stop. 

The Yankees didn't start this madness, truth be told.  Yes, they have always been willing to part with prospects for "known talent" and yes, they have money to spend.  The Texas Rangers started this madness with the contract given to A Rod and the Rangers should be kissing George's hair beanbag - the Yankees are the only ones that could have taken that contract on.  Boston, back in the Duquette days, didn't do anyone any favors with the insane contract that Manny has - - and the current Red Sox brain trust has been trying to rid themselves of ever since.

The Angels followed suit by signing Mo Vaughn to a crippling deal.  The Mets overpaid for Pedro and Beltran.  Toronto is throwing money around like it grows on trees.

Very few teams rely on their farm system and take a more New England Patriots approach to their budget:  value each position as "x" and refuse to overspend.  One big spender in the league, Boston, has started to do this.  Without Manny's contract they would be well under $100 million in total payroll.  However, Boston's overspending of the past has hurt the game today.

Until there is a salary cap in place - this will continue.  You can't lay this blame on the Yankees doorstop, it's simply not fair.  New York is the biggest media outlet in the world, will the Bubba Crosby players of the world attract enough attention so anyone cares?  No.  Until each team has to operate under the set financial mindsets, no blame can be dealt on to the Yankees alone.

I do not blame the Yanks, they are playing within the rules set forth.    Hate to tell you but the Yanks started it, ever since George has owned them, they have spent more cash on players than any other team.

Sure a team like Boston may pony up a huge deal for a player from time to time, but they cannot or will not do it for multiple players year after year.

My point in all this is when a less revenue team has a quality player then that player when he becomes a FA looks to only a handful of teams or decide to take less cash to stay with his current team.

As far as making other teams over spend.  No it does not make them, since they can choose to not over pay, however when the market price has been raised & you are trying to win then you have to pay what the market says.

Texas is a great example of how the Yanks have driven the market.  They overpaid for A-Rod in order to get him or he would have ended up with the Yanks.  After they did then money was tight for other players & they could not provide him any help.

So the Yanks step in & simply toss him in with other 20 million dollar players & never miss a beat.  Money is no concern with them.

I'd love to be their GM.  Sign the best talent with no worries about balancing the act being veteran & young players.

Except for all of their spending, they've produced zero in results.  Again, since 1999:  One World Series trip that ended in a loss to the Marlins, one World Series loss to Arizona, one meltdown ALCS loss to the Angels, another to the Red Sox and a divisional loss to the Angels. 

Meanwhile - teams that "can't compete" due to financial constraints provided by the Yankees bloated spending have gone on to the promised land:  Arizona, Florida, Angels, White Sox...not exactly "big hitters."

I don't think there is any doubt that the Yankees have ruined baseball.

They are also responsible for global warming, priests molesting children and every single Ben Affleck movie. George Steinbrenner himself is secretly dictating to President Bush our government's foreign policy and forcing gas prices through the roof.

In short, the Yankees are destroying America. Guilty! Every last pin-striped antichrist!

I dare anyone to present any evidence that can possibly refute these societal truths!

How many other teams are there year after year with a chance?  When is the last time the Yanks were not in the playoffs?  '94?  The only other team making the playoffs is the Braves & they are doing it with a payroll under 100 million & to my knowledge have never topped that mark.

In 10 years the Yanks payroll has incresed payroll almost 4 times of what it was in '96 & they were the highest paying team in '96.  Everyone else, has double for the most part.  The gap between first & second has went from 4 million to 74 million.  That gap alone between 1 & 2 is more than some teams are able to pay their entire team.

Sure teams like Ari/Fl roll the dice from time to time then have to unload everyone soon after because they cannot with stand several years of high payroll.

Ari payroll 4 years ago was over 100 million.  This year its 60 million.  A drop of over 40 million.  While the Yanks have increased payroll 70 million.  Ari had a payroll of 80 million in '01 & won the WS.  They increased payroll the following year to 102 million to try & defend the title.  In '03 they were back down to 80 million.      In fact there was talk then about the team being in serious financial shape.

There was a 27 million dollar gap between Ari & the Yanks in '01 when they played.  In '06 its 135 million.  Slight difference would you not say?

The Angles have been in the top 5 of spending for the last 3 years.  So I'd say they are a big hitter. 

The fact is lesser teams have to develop talent then they have a year or two window to make a run for it, before they have to drop back & start all over again.. 

The Yanks just keep spending & letting other team develop their talent.

I fully expect them to land a couple of high priced players before the deadline, if they have the minor league talent to do so.

Only a Yanks fan would actually try to deny this.  Everyone knows the playing field is slanted in their direction, just please do not sit there & try to say its not.  You have no leg to stand on other than its the rules they have.

  Talk about people crying if baseball ever levels the playing field.  Heck the Yanks might actually have to find a GM who knows a thing or two about talent & how to spend money more wisely.

Being the GM of the Yanks is the easiest job in baseball.  See a talented player.  Go buy him.

Wow, did the equipment cost a lot of money?  You know...the stuff that allows blind people to use the internet? 

Me...a Yankee fan.  I think that now I have heard it all.  Here's your first tip, try looking at my avatar.

I think that only someone with a minimal education within the game will place 100% of baseball's faults on the New York Yankees.  But I guess that is why basketball makes free throws from where they are - easy targets.

And, again, you fail to even tip your cap at a real and valid point:  The New York Yankess have won virtually nothing from the time that they emptied their farm system.  Only when 80% of their starting lineup came from their own system and draft were they winning handfuls of titles in the 90's - it wasn't with hired guns.

So explain to me how Cashman has "the easiest job in the majors" please?  He obtains the "best talent out there" yet fails to win each year.  Hmmm. 

In regards to the Yankees making the playoffs every year - um, yeah.  You do know that Baltimore, Toronto and Tampa Bay are in the same division, yes?  Boston / NYY make the playoffs almost out of default.

And no, you didn't.  Bad Sunstroke, bad!

BTW, did you know that I was a Yankees fan???  ;)

  Make no sense.

A: You avatar is not available on the reply section  B:  I was simply reply in general to usually the people who defend the Yanks are usually only their fans, but RSox fans are not far behind.  Its like having Hitler defend Stalin.

Lets see how well either team would do with a 70 million budget instead of 100+ million or 200 million in the Yanks case.  However, at least Boston has a budget.

Find where I said it was 100% of the Yanks fault.  I do not blame the Yanks.  If I could simply out spend my close competion to improve my chances at winning then I would do the same.

Its the owners fault for not getting together to make baseball more level in terms of being able to keep your own players & figuring out of way to improve their product so fans from other cities might be more interested in their team.

  Virtually nothing?    Won 4 out of the last 10 WS titles.   Played for the WS title 6 out of the last 10 years.  They have won the AL pennant 3 of the last 6 years.  Won their division 8 straight years.   

Yea, they have won virtually nothing lately.  They may not have won the WS title the last 5, but lets not pretend they have won virtually nothing.

  Yes, this is true, but in the process some of the players they have taken on could have stayed with another team.  The fact is even with home grown talent they are still able to keep it when other teams have to let some if not all of it go elsewhere.  Do you think Oakland wanted to trade Hudson, Mulder & let Tejada walk?  No, but they had to.  Its the only way they can complete is to develop talent then move it for cheaper talent, before they lose it for nothing but picks. 

  Having the best talent does not mean you will always win.  It simply means you have greatly improved your chances.  The hardest part of Cashman job is putting up with his boss.  Other than that it takes no real talent to trade for A-Rod, sign Giambi, sign Damon etc......  My 4 year old could do that.

I'll give you that one.

Are you the master of skimming posts and not actually reading them?  Would you like to do your own homework, or shall I do it for you?  The last time the Yankees won the World Series was...what year?  Anyone?  Bueller?  And how many players on that roster came up through the Yankees system?  Not big money free agents?  Anyone?  And how many players on that active roster were drafted by the Yankees and not hired guns?  Anyone? 

(crickets and tumbleweed insert here)

EVERY team that has a shot goes out and picks up the occasional player.  Every team.  Period.  Please check your information again - research the last year that the Yankees won the World Series and what players made up those rosters.  And, when you're done - please let me know how many titles the Yankees have won since really opening their wallets versus grooming their own?  I'll give you that answer - zero.  Nada.  Zilch.  8 division titles?  Yippie.  Who was the team that lost the World Series in 1979?  Who won the AL West in 1984?  Who cares?

That 1999/2000 team sure was filled with super stars.  Joe Girardi, Jeff Manto, Chad Curtis...few!  Man.  I'll do some of this for you.  Starting line up those years... 

Jorge Posada?  Yankee product - drafted by NYY in 1990
Derek Jeter?  Yankee product - drafted by NYY in 1996
Bernie Williams?  Yankee product - amateur free agent, signed 1985
Ricky Ledee?  Yankee product - drafted in 1990
Shane Spencer?  Yankee product - drafted in 1990
Jim Leyritz?  Yankee product, amateur free agent, signed 1985
D'Angelo Jimenez?  Yankee product, amateur free agent, signed 1994
Alfonso Soriano?  Yankee product, amateur free agent, signed 1998
Mike Figga?  Yankee product, drafted 1989
Andy Pettitte?  Yankee product, amateur free agent, signed 1991
Orlando Hernandez?  Yankee product, amateur free agent, signed 1998
Mariano Rivera?  Yankee product, amateur free agent, signed 1990
Ramiro Mendoza? Yankee product, amateur free agent, signed 1991
Jay Tessmer?  Yankee product, drafted 1995
Mike Buddie?  Yankee product, drafted 1992

25 man active roster - 16 of those players were drafted by the Yankees or signed as rookies.  Four more players had been with te Yankees for at least four years.  That leaves 5 spots for players that hadn't been around a while...aka "those big market free agents."  Two "big names" on that roster?  Roger Clemens and David Cone.  Shall I list off the "big names" on the Braves that year that didn't start their careers with the Braves when the Yanks won in '99?  Or maybe the Mets from '00?  It's more than the Yankees.

Again - fact:  the Yankees haven't won anything from 2000 when a decision was made that they were better off with names versus prospects.  If you look at any Yankee 25 man roster from 2000 on, you'll find MAYBE 6 players that the Yankees drafted.  And that's being kind.

So for all of the "hired guns"...it's netted them exactly squat.  Smashing the piggy bank for Damon, Sheff, Giambi, ARod, Johnson, etc hasn't exactly brought them to the promised land.  What has it gotten them?  Those sparkling 8 division titles, 2 World Series losses to two expansion teams, two LCS losses to the Angels and the Red Sox.  Yep, that Cashman has it easy.

Actually - that 2000 team did have Ted Lilly.  I guess everyone should have seen that title coming... ;D


Just because a team spends, doesn't mean that they win.  That said, you HAVE to spend a certain amount to compete.  If you don't...that's no one else's fault than that team.

Do not talk to me about skimming post when you just skimmed mine


I post this below in my last post.

Since you might not get it.  This means that when the Yanks grow their own & want to keep them then they do not have to pick between which player(s) they might want to kept, like Oakland had to do with keeping either Chavez or Tejada. 

If the Yanks had grown both do you think Tejada would have ended up in Baltimore or would he still be a Yank?

When is the last time the Yanks had to choose which of their home grown players to keep?

By the way.  Jeter was not drafted in '96, but in '92.   Guess I do read your post.

   Check what info?  I never said teams didn't.   WTF are you reading?   However, I'll run with it, what teams adds 10 to 20  million dollar ball players year after year after year while still paying for the previous years players?

(crickets and tumbleweed insert here)

For some reason you are stuck on home grown products.  Sure they are nice, but that home grown product grow up & cost.  The Yanks are able to meet any & all cost to keep them.

Tell, when is the last time the Yanks lost a FA they wanted to keep?


By the way.  I do not care if the Yanks have not won a WS title in 5 years.  They have been one of only 4 teams out of the AL that could in each year.  When they start sitting at home come Oct. then we will talk about how its not paying off for them, until then your argument is really weak.

  Easier said than done.  Baseball is a business & like any business you cannot spend more than you make, just like with your personal income.   Lesser revenue teams cannot spend 100 million year in & year out while taking in less & expect to be around a few years down the road. 

Fans need to understand this is not monopoly money we are talking about here.  But real debt & real income.

I agree that spending for the sake of spending does not help you win, however it does make it easier when you know if you make a mistake on a player it will not cripple your salary structure for years to come.

And I still say Cashman job is easy.  When you do not have work within a budget & have to decide between which player to keep & which player to let go because you simply cannot afford both then your job is easier.

You're very right that the Yankees get the players that they want.  I won't dispute that.  I guess my point, and it's getting lost, is this:  the success was there when the mix was more groomed versus FA.  Something changed after that 2000 season - George went even more crazy - and things haven't been the same since.  Some of it is pure dumb luck, losing to the Diamondbacks and Marlins in the dance, losing to Boston in that ALCS...so they easily could have three more rings - but it used to mean something to be a Yankee.

God - I forgot about Tejada!  Good call.  They also dealt away Lowell, although I would say that SS and 3B hasn't been a weakness for them.  I accept your point on Cashman that he has unlimited tools to try to get the job done.  I think he would be better served to draft better and go younger - I don't think that I did a decent job of making my point.

Hey guys, after last night, I'd just like to say: I love Melky Cabrera.  ;D

Who won the argument battle maine or Dphins4me, just wondering

The avatar is just a cover you Jeter loving bastard.