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TDMMC Forums => Around the NFL => Topic started by: Dave Gray on October 25, 2011, 12:13:24 pm



Title: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on October 25, 2011, 12:13:24 pm
Tim Tebow sucks.

Big time.

He will NEVER be a viable NFL QB.

I don't say this as a hater.  I'm a fan of the Gators and I liked Tebow in college, but the guy just doesn't have the skills to play QB in the NFL.  He's a winner? - Bogus.  He makes people around him better - fine, but not over the course of a career.

Tebow's win against us was due to our own implosion, the fact that we turned into a prevent defense, that he was playing in 4 down territory and that our special teams caved.  He didn't even make good throws to beat us.  He hit wide open receivers or his guys laid out to make incredible catches.  I don't even think his TD pass was legit. ....looked dropped to me.  I don't think the guy made an above average throw all day long. 

Tebow does one thing well -- he extends plays.  ...and he deserves credit for that.  However, you can't build a career around it.

Denver should wise up as soon as possible.  The longer they keep this guy around as their QB, the longer they delay the inevitability of total failure and collapse. 

He had 4 completions for 24 yards with 3 minutes left in the game.  (one of those was for a loss of yards)  ...and he didn't even play THAT well.  The guy is a terrible NFL QB that took advantage of the worst team in the NFL and still had to come back in a miracle to pull it off.  He is going to get DESTROYED from here on out.  The worst thing that can happen for the Broncos is for them to win a few games and further hitch themselves to Tebow's wagon.  He's a RB playing QB.

Doug Flutie comparisons are asinine.  Doug Flutie was undersized, but he could make smart decisions and he (most importantly) could throw a football, in addition to the other intangibles.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 25, 2011, 01:43:47 pm
I am so happy to see someone besides me saying this.

I've had enough of people swinging from this guy's nut sack constantly.  He played 3 1/2 quarters of garbage football.  Not until the Dolphins went into prevent defense and gave every WR 10-15 yard cushions off the line was he able to do anything.  And even then, most of his "good plays" were runs. 

He didn't make one single good throw during Sunday's game.  Why are people so enamored with him, including the media, and seemingly every NFL fan?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Sunstroke on October 25, 2011, 02:05:35 pm

Hot steaming garbage...with the faint aroma of broccoli and third world foreskins.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 25, 2011, 02:25:10 pm
And yet, he was the single best player on the field when it mattered on Sunday.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on October 25, 2011, 02:53:02 pm
And yet, he was the single best player on the field when it mattered on Sunday.

No, he wasn't.

That's what I'm saying.  He didn't play above average to win that game, even at the end.  He hit open receivers in the prevent OR they laid out to make insane catches on average throws.  The best players were his receivers or the special teams guys that recovered the onside kick or the kicker that would've hit the FG from 65 yards.  Tebow didn't make a mistake down the stretch, but you're just not being honest with yourself if you think that Tebow was the reason that the Broncos won that game.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 25, 2011, 03:01:37 pm
Tebow is living on residual glory from his college days.  He hasn't earned a single thing in the NFL.  Not one.

He looked awful in preseason, he was out-played by both Orton and Quinn, and I can't imagine why the fans clamored for him enough to get him to start.  What's worse is that the coaching staff bought into the clamoring...

I hope, like you said, they win some games by accident, from no thanks to Tebow, and they go "all-in" on him, only to continue sucking for years to come.

This just goes to show you that fan perception is more important than performance. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on October 25, 2011, 03:15:48 pm
I'm sure Tebow is a nice guy.  He's good on his feet.  He has some nice intangibles, he's a great teammate, a natural leader, etc.

Unfortunately, he can't throw a football, the one main job of a quarterback.  You just can't overcome a lack of talent in that one specific area.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: dolphins4life on October 25, 2011, 05:11:32 pm
I don't think you can pass judgement on him after one game.

Let's see how he does the rest of the year.       


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 25, 2011, 05:21:16 pm
Um...Tebow was the entire reason why the Broncos won that game.  That and the Lolphins suck, but we already knew that.

He hit the open receivers, in stride on occasion (which is more than any Dolphin QB has done in the Sparano era), and avoided the pass rush that constantly broke through his swiss cheese line.  After watching this game, I no longer believe Miami has the worst OL in the league.  That honor belongs to Denver IMHO.  And is 100% reason why Orton lost his job...he was not mobile enough to make up for his line's weaknesses.

I'm not appointing him Saint Tebow.  Give the guy credit.  He did every thing it took to get the job done.  He allowed the receivers to do their jobs and make their plays.  And more importantly, didn't make any mistakes in crunch time, unlike Matt Moore.

Sure Tebow was awful for 3.5 quarters.  No debate here.  But for the last half quarter he was pretty good.  You're bullshitting yourself thinking otherwise.  Tebow will never be a picture perfect QB.  His game looks ugly, but I think it's a good bet he wins close to 50% of the games he starts this year.  He looked pretty good last year when given the opportunity also.  To me it looks like the folks who despise him so (i.e. the posters in this thread) are just butthurt he's a media darling.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on October 25, 2011, 05:53:40 pm
Um...Tebow was the entire reason why the Broncos won that game.  That and the Lolphins suck, but we already knew that.

He hit the open receivers, in stride on occasion (which is more than any Dolphin QB has done in the Sparano era), and avoided the pass rush that constantly broke through his swiss cheese line.  After watching this game, I no longer believe Miami has the worst OL in the league.  That honor belongs to Denver IMHO.  And is 100% reason why Orton lost his job...he was not mobile enough to make up for his line's weaknesses.

I'm not appointing him Saint Tebow.  Give the guy credit.  He did every thing it took to get the job done.  He allowed the receivers to do their jobs and make their plays.  And more importantly, didn't make any mistakes in crunch time, unlike Matt Moore.

Sure Tebow was awful for 3.5 quarters.  No debate here.  But for the last half quarter he was pretty good.  You're bullshitting yourself thinking otherwise.  Tebow will never be a picture perfect QB.  His game looks ugly, but I think it's a good bet he wins close to 50% of the games he starts this year.  He looked pretty good last year when given the opportunity also.  To me it looks like the folks who despise him so (i.e. the posters in this thread) are just butthurt he's a media darling.

Actually it was field position. If you look at the last two games, he only scored when he started near mid field or shorter. When he had to start deep in his own territory, he has horrible stats. So far he is a stud when it is in the 4th quarter, he is behind, and he has a much shorter field.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 25, 2011, 07:10:07 pm
I'm looking at the play-by-play record.  Tebow made exactly 3 passes that went for longer than 10 yards.  Against the Dolphins' prevent defense.

(5:23) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass short right to 88-D.Thomas pushed ob at DEN 35 for 15 yards (24-S.Smith).

(4:07) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass deep middle to 12-M.Willis to MIA 12 for 42 yards (29-T.Culver).
- This was a 17 yard throw that had 25 yards of YAC. 

(:56) (Shotgun) 15-T.Tebow pass deep middle to 86-D.Fells to MIA 3 for 28 yards (56-K.Burnett). The Replay Assistant challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld.
- This ball was a terrible, inaccurate throw and an amazing diving catch by the WR. 

Conversely, I can recall 5-7 throws where he overthrew an open guy by 10 yards, or threw it to the sideline when his WR was inside the numbers.  He had far more than 3 terrible throws on the day.

I give the guy credit for being tough and elusive, but he is NOT a good QB.  And he's absolutely NOT the best in the league, or anywhere near as good as people make him out to be.  Be honest with yourself, a QB is supposed to be able to throw, and he can't.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on October 25, 2011, 07:32:29 pm
I could not agree more with what both Brian and Dave have said.

However, he was a sweet bye-week fantasy replacement, good for 22 points (QBs who run = fantasy promise!)

This is his one moment of glory. They play the Lions next. Do you think Suh and that mean-ass D-line and very good defense will allow Tebow to even come close to his "epic" horrible performance at Miami? Absolutely not.

You know Tebow is bad when in the 3rd and into the 4th quarter, the 3rd-and-long situational plays that were called were designed draws. Not only can he not throw the football, the coaches aren't even letting him attempt it. That's bad.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 25, 2011, 09:25:42 pm
I'm not saying he was great.  He WAS garbage for 3.5 quarters.

For that last 1/2 quarter, he was pretty good.  Not great, but it showed promise for his first real playing time of the year.

I'm not saying he will be a HOFer.  But for Sunday's game, he was the ENTIRE reason why the Broncos won the game...outside of the Lolphins suckiness.


Tebow was also my bye week starter in fantasy.  He got me 28. :)    I will not be playing him against a pissed off Lions team.  In the right matchups, he could be worth something. (but so are half the QBs in this league fantasy wise.)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on October 25, 2011, 11:17:49 pm
He won't get wins.  You'll see.  He will be garbage and something that I will "I told you so" forever.

He played like crap against our pathetic team.  ...that's how pathetic he is.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 25, 2011, 11:53:39 pm
Luck is temporary.  Good is consistent. 

You may win 1 game on luck in the NFL.  Maybe 2 games.  But you have to have skill to win consistently.

The thing I don't understand is why so many people keep talking about this guy. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 26, 2011, 12:44:24 am
He won't get wins.  You'll see.  He will be garbage and something that I will "I told you so" forever.

He played like crap against our pathetic team.  ...that's how pathetic he is.

I just wonder what kind of currency "i told you so's" are worth.  MikeO has been telling you guys how's it's gonna be for over a year now and you still won't listen...even after it happens.

I'll believe Tebow is garbage when it's been proven on the field.  And after 4 games as a pro starter, he's been pretty good.  He's EXTREMELY elusive and tough and is working on doing the things that make a successful NFL QB.  I don't even know if he'll stay a full time QB, but I do know he belongs on the field in some capacity.  The kid has a great trick that he keeps pulling over and over again...winning.  I won't bet against him.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on October 26, 2011, 07:42:49 am
I think it's funny actually.  There are the he finds a way to win people and the he sucks people. No one is saying he is a great QB on either side. All I know is that I liked the fact he has done something in 4 games what it took John Elway 15 years to do. He has led the Broncos to victory when trailing by at least 15 points in the fourth quarter twice.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on October 26, 2011, 11:13:06 am
He ain't Elway.  But he can make things happen with his feet.  He is a poor man's M. Vick.  (but with higher moral standards).   

He might develop into a better passer with experience.  Never gonna become the next Elway, but he could lead the Broncos to the playoffs next year. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on October 26, 2011, 01:29:44 pm
I think it's both. He sucks AND he finds a way to win.

But you can't continue to suck for 3.5 quarters every game and expect the opposing team to only score 15 points each week. The Lions may score 30 and no 4th quarter rally will be possible there.

No coach will put up with Tebow for much longer if he only decides to show up with 5 mins left in the game and completely, utterly, miserably suck for 3.5 quarters.

And he's NOT a winner. He won on Sunday, but lost the previous Sunday and last year as well. 2-2 record as a starter is NOT a "Winner". It's highly mediocre.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on October 26, 2011, 01:31:34 pm
Oh and by the way he's 17 for 37 this season (passing). 46% completion rate, which for him is probably good but it's very bad.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 26, 2011, 02:15:41 pm
He's not a winner.....funny....looked like one Sunday. 33-5 record in the NCAA. All time rushing leader in the SEC, breaking Herschel Walker's record. How are the Gator's doing without him? As a pro, he is 2-2 in games he either starts or takes most of the snaps. 35-7....how is that NOT a winner? I don't care if he looks like he is trying to throw a helium filled ballon when he passes. Winning is winning. That- by definition- is what makes you a winner. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Pappy13 on October 26, 2011, 02:21:15 pm
He's not a winner.....funny....looked like one Sunday.
If he does that against New England, then I'd agree. Against the Dolphins, I pretty much was assuming that he would do it.  I'm not kidding. When Miami went up by 15, I was thinking they can still lose this game and that's as bad as Tebow was playing I was thinking that.  He didn't win the game so much as Miami self destructed and handed it to him.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 26, 2011, 02:29:43 pm
Not only do I get that, but I was saying the same thing to my wife- "You grossly underestimate how bad Miami is, and we will lose." Even having said that, a win is a win. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on October 26, 2011, 02:53:52 pm
He's not a winner.....funny....looked like one Sunday. 33-5 record in the NCAA. All time rushing leader in the SEC, breaking Herschel Walker's record. How are the Gator's doing without him? As a pro, he is 2-2 in games he either starts or takes most of the snaps. 35-7....how is that NOT a winner? I don't care if he looks like he is trying to throw a helium filled ballon when he passes. Winning is winning. That- by definition- is what makes you a winner. -EK

Because 4 games (1 against us) does not a career make.  He was a great college player on a great college team.  He deserves all the credit.  But the NFL is a different game at the QB position.

He has won twice.  This will not continue in the long run.  He is a terrible NFL player at the QB position.  He will start to get gameplanned against, forced to make thows, he will be unable, and he'll be out of the league.  His best bet is to switch positions to take advantage of his other talents.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 26, 2011, 02:58:22 pm
I'm not sure that I actually disagree with any of what you said, other than maybe the win was against Miami thing. My point is- a win in the NFL is a win. A stellar win-loss record in college speaks for itself. No matter how ugly his technique or mechanics are, he HAS actually won at every level. That may change rapidly in the coming weeks, but at this point, irrespective of your personal feelings about the guy, you can't look at him and say, "Not a winner." -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 26, 2011, 03:17:46 pm
He's not a winner.....funny....looked like one Sunday. 33-5 record in the NCAA. All time rushing leader in the SEC, breaking Herschel Walker's record. How are the Gator's doing without him? As a pro, he is 2-2 in games he either starts or takes most of the snaps. 35-7....how is that NOT a winner? I don't care if he looks like he is trying to throw a helium filled ballon when he passes. Winning is winning. That- by definition- is what makes you a winner. -EK

Tebow is living on residual glory from his college days.  He hasn't earned a single thing in the NFL.  Not one.

Thank you for proving my point.

NCAA success means precisely NOTHING in the NFL.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 26, 2011, 05:09:49 pm
So I'm guessing that every person that's defending Tebow in this thread is a huge Mark Sanchez fan?

If Tebow is good, Sanchez must be Jesus.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 26, 2011, 05:57:24 pm
As usual, nothing but distortion by Spidey.

Yes.  That's what we are all saying.  Mark Sanchez is obviously the greatest QB who ever lived, and maybe the greatest human being to ever walk the earth.  We are lucky to be here with him.  Obviously, that's what we're saying.  Way to be relevant, Spidey.

There is soooo much butthurt from you guys out there it's amazing.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on October 26, 2011, 06:18:50 pm
So I'm guessing that every person that's defending Tebow in this thread is a huge Mark Sanchez fan?

If Tebow is good, Sanchez must be Jesus.

Sanchez has had a lot more oppertunites to play. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 26, 2011, 06:25:27 pm
Pat White was 46-7 in NCAA games.  He must be equally awesome.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 26, 2011, 07:36:12 pm
Isn't the entirety of the pro-Tebow position that Winning Is What Matters and the rest is just irrelevant fluff?

Sanchez took his team to back-to-back AFCC games (while posting stats in the bottom third of the league).  What more can be expected from Tebow?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 26, 2011, 09:25:56 pm
Isn't the entirety of the pro-Tebow position that Winning Is What Matters and the rest is just irrelevant fluff?

Nope, but thanks for trying to derail anyway.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on October 27, 2011, 09:24:30 am
Pat White was 46-7 in NCAA games.  He must be equally awesome.

You forgot to mention he is the only starting college QB to go 4-0 in bowl games.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on October 27, 2011, 10:21:27 am
He ain't Elway.  But he can make things happen with his feet.  He is a poor man's M. Vick.  (but with higher moral standards).   

He might develop into a better passer with experience.  Never gonna become the next Elway, but he could lead the Broncos to the playoffs next year. 
No one said he was Elway. I said it only took 4 games for him to accomplish something it took Elway much longer to do. 

I see him play an ugly QB game just like everyone else but just like everyone with an open mind (this includes Cowher and Gruden) I'm interested to see his development and will withhold judgement.  I don't think many people do not realize he that he is an unique and special player. The leadership he brings  alone is not something that can be taught. The long term question is will that be enough?

Take away the QB aspect and he got away from Wake, Dansby and Taylor several times. He beats people that most others do not beat. It's not like the NFL doesn't have a place for the guy and excuse the pun but Lord knows Tebow will do whatever the coaches feel is best for the team. I bet his final story will be an interesting read.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 27, 2011, 10:52:17 am
^^Completely agree. I can't figure out why there's such a split on Tebow. So many people either love or hate him. Why can't more people just admit he's a one in a million talent, that his team responds to. He did more against SD in one quarter than Orton did the other three, and nearly won the game- his team- all of the guys around him, seemingly to a man- play better when he's on the field. Does that mean he's the next Montano? No. Does it warrant that if you dislike him, his values, his haircut, or the fact that he has different morals than you he should immediately be labeled "loser" when all indications are that he works his ass off, does whatever his coaches ask of him, and brings something to his team that makes it better? Also, no. Revisit this again at the end of the season, and many people could end up saying, "Wow. I was wrong." They could. But they won't. Why? The same reason that people hate him and label him "not a winner" for no reason. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Sunstroke on October 27, 2011, 11:17:28 am
Revisit this again at the end of the season, and many people could end up saying, "Wow. I was wrong." They could. But they won't. Why? The same reason that people hate him and label him "not a winner" for no reason. -EK

Turn that around... If (or when) Tebow still looks like a horrifically untalented passer at the end of the season and Denver has a record of 4-12 or 5-11 (I just checked the schedule...Denver doesn't play Miami again), will all the people who have ignored his lack of QB talent in order to focus on his "leadership-morals-swell guy-college hero" come up here and admit they were wrong?

I'm guessing the answer there is "no" as well. When that scenario I noted above happens, which I believe it will, what I expect from the BTHS (Blind Tebow Homer Society) are a lot of excuses like...

"He doesn't have enough talent around him,"
or "he wasn't used properly by the coaching staff,"
or "you just need to give him more time to develop."



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on October 27, 2011, 11:21:14 am
Let's not forget that he was sacked 6 times, so he didn't get away all that much.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 27, 2011, 11:27:08 am
Turn that around... If (or when) Tebow still looks like a horrifically untalented passer at the end of the season and Denver has a record of 4-12 or 5-11 (I just checked the schedule...Denver doesn't play Miami again), will all the people who have ignored his lack of QB talent in order to focus on his "leadership-morals-swell guy-college hero" come up here and admit they were wrong?

I'm guessing the answer there is "no" as well. When that scenario I noted above happens, which I believe it will, what I expect from the BTHS (Blind Tebow Homer Society) are a lot of excuses like...

"He doesn't have enough talent around him,"
or "he wasn't used properly by the coaching staff,"
or "you just need to give him more time to develop."

I will absolutely say he doesn't have enough talent around him (duh, they only had one win in five games BEFORE he started), and will likely also say he needs more time, BUT I'll be man enough to admit his talent couldn't overcome those things and that he's not as good as I thought he was if/when that happens. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 27, 2011, 01:13:55 pm
Why can't more people just admit he's a one in a million talent, that his team responds to.
Exactly because he is NOT a one in a million talent.  That's just it.  People treat him as though he is something no one's ever seen before, when, in fact, he's less talented than 80% of the QB's currently in the league.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 27, 2011, 01:24:33 pm
Let's not forget that he was sacked 6 times, so he didn't get away all that much.

He would have been sacked 12 or more times had he not been so elusive.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MaineDolFan on October 27, 2011, 03:01:22 pm
He would have been sacked 12 or more times had he not been so elusive.

Quartebacks who are able to drop back, check down and quickly find their targets with accurate throws aren't generally sacked 6 times in a game at all...much less 12.

Tebow reads defensive schemes as well as I read Russian.  He picks up blitzes like Hoodie picks up chicks.  He has one of the slowest releases I've ever seen. 

I can't tell you much about the guy other than those points...and those points are likely going to get the man killed on the field.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 27, 2011, 03:22:35 pm
Exactly because he is NOT a one in a million talent.  That's just it.  People treat him as though he is something no one's ever seen before, when, in fact, he's less talented than 80% of the QB's currently in the league.

And yet he has more wins in one start than any QB on the Dolphins roster, and as many wins as every QB on the Broncos roster. How does that equal "less than 80% of the QB's currently in the league"? Exagerate much? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Sunstroke on October 27, 2011, 03:23:10 pm

I'm changing my opinion on Tim Tebow. Any guy who gets a hottie like this is alright in my book!

(http://www.webeengone.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Tim-Tebow-Girlfriend.jpg)





Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 27, 2011, 03:32:30 pm
Sunstroke- too many haters here. If you don't post a pic of them together, no one will believe you. Even after I do, I'm sure some people will claim it's photoshopped.

(http://media19.onsugar.com/files/2011/05/22/1/1739/17393881/8b/tim-tebow-girlfriend.jpg)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 27, 2011, 03:35:46 pm
Goodness.  I'd convert for that.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Pappy13 on October 27, 2011, 03:40:54 pm
No wonder he can't throw the football. His hands are all stretched out....think about it.  >:D


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Thundergod on October 27, 2011, 03:43:30 pm
WOW    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/lordthundergod/drool.gif)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 27, 2011, 03:58:55 pm
If QB talent = wins, Dan Marino would have 15 Super Bowl rings.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Sunstroke on October 27, 2011, 04:08:23 pm
WOW    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/lordthundergod/drool.gif)

Yeah man, I'm not even an aficionado of the major league yabbos, but that is one tasty bit of fem-flesh there!

On a Tebow note, one of the "trending" terms right now is "#Tebowing." When one of my coworkers heard that term, he wrote

"Tried out #tebowing. Threw what I had in my hands and it dribbled 9 yards down the hallway, completely missing my target. Then I prayed."




Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on October 27, 2011, 04:08:44 pm
I will say one thing. The Denver Coaches aren't using him right. He's not supposed to be playing the QB position.

Better yet: He's not supposed to play the traditional QB position. He can take shotgun snaps and run draws all day long if that's what their offensive game plan is going to be. But if they need someone to throw the football, they better re-insert Kyle Orton into the lineup ASAP or 2 wins will be all they will get this season.

The "jump pass" bullshit doesn't work in the NFL unless you're playing against the Dolphins.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Sunstroke on October 27, 2011, 04:16:24 pm

And, for those who haven't already looked it up, "#Tebowing" is the act of taking a knee, putting your fist to forehead and praying...the classic Tim Tebow pose. This picture is me and 3 coworkers Tebowing in our office a couple of minutes ago.

(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/311032_116177235158911_100002999064886_108707_2144605719_n.jpg)



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on October 27, 2011, 04:23:58 pm
Sunstroke- too many haters here. If you don't post a pic of them together, no one will believe you. Even after I do, I'm sure some people will claim it's photoshopped.

(http://media19.onsugar.com/files/2011/05/22/1/1739/17393881/8b/tim-tebow-girlfriend.jpg)

I bet he still hasn't gotten any yet.  >:D


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on October 27, 2011, 05:24:27 pm
^^^^ I hope not considering he's a huge supporter of abstinence.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on October 27, 2011, 05:43:22 pm
I'm changing my opinion on Tim Tebow. Any guy who gets a hottie like this is alright in my book!

(http://www.webeengone.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Tim-Tebow-Girlfriend.jpg)





No wonder this guy is always praying. He doesn't want his great life to end! lol


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: AZ Fins Fan 55 on October 27, 2011, 06:59:22 pm
I'm changing my opinion on Tim Tebow. Any guy who gets a hottie like this is alright in my book!

(http://www.webeengone.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Tim-Tebow-Girlfriend.jpg)


Holy Shit........that is all!!!!!


(http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/311032_116177235158911_100002999064886_108707_2144605719_n.jpg)


That is awesome.....nicely done!!!!!!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 27, 2011, 07:27:33 pm
I must say I'm quite happy that bikini pic has been re-posted on here so much.  It's quite nice to look at. :P


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 27, 2011, 07:30:28 pm
And for your Tebowing pleasure...http://tebowing.com/


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: AZ Fins Fan 55 on October 27, 2011, 07:44:31 pm
^^^^

That is damn near epic!!!! Much better than the sites devoted to planking!!!!!!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Sunstroke on October 27, 2011, 10:50:55 pm
Sunstroke- too many haters here. If you don't post a pic of them together, no one will believe you. Even after I do, I'm sure some people will claim it's photoshopped.

Nah... With the exception of some newer members, most folks on this board know that if I post something up here that isn't opinion-based, it's either something I am certain is true, or that I've taken the time to verify. Too many years spent writing for people with zero tolerance for erroneous information, so double-checking things is my default setting.

I must say I'm quite happy that bikini pic has been re-posted on here so much.  It's quite nice to look at. :P

I'm all about keeping the mob happy... ;D



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 28, 2011, 01:14:41 am
Guys, before you fall over yourselves wishing you were in Tebow's shoes:

Tebow is a virgin who steadfastly refuses to have premarital sex. (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=howard/110331)

So unless you are fantasizing about having a deep, meaningful conversation with said female...  there doesn't seem to be much worth envying.

In my book, practicing abstinence with a girl like that around is like some cruel version of Tantalean torture.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: shamrock on October 28, 2011, 01:40:25 am
I Love Tebow!Hope he wins a super bowl if nothing else to piss off all the haters!
Why??? Because I can't stand it when all the "experts" say someone has to be such and such or fit this mold or that one to be successful.Two examples;Drew Brees.....here's a guy that's barely six feet tall and goes about a buck ninety,but he's found a way to win.Doesn't have a big arm,but is super accurate and extends plays with his athleticism.Has a super bowl ring.Jeff George....the NFL's prototypical quarterback,six five,two forty or so,can throw a football 80 yards in the air.......journeyman piece of crap.Go figure.Another example....Mike Vick....never an NFL prototype qb,yet every talking head on the air was slobbing over him when he came into the league.....and he was a RUNNING QUARTERBACK!!! At 6' and 200 lbs.!!! If he can be successful why can't Tebow?
On the things teams rate qb's by
size
arm strength
mechanics
accuracy
intangables

Tebow is big,has awesome arm stregth,and is off the chart on intangables.....mechanics and accuracy can be coached.
I say the jury is still out on this guy.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on October 28, 2011, 09:47:13 am
Guys, before you fall over yourselves wishing you were in Tebow's shoes:

Tebow is a virgin who steadfastly refuses to have premarital sex. (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=howard/110331)

So unless you are fantasizing about having a deep, meaningful conversation with said female...  there doesn't seem to be much worth envying.

In my book, practicing abstinence with a girl like that around is like some cruel version of Tantalean torture.

Rule #1 Just because Tebow hasn't been there doesn't mean someone hasn't  :P


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 28, 2011, 11:23:36 am
Not saying she's a virgin.  But what does that have to do with Tim Tebow?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on October 28, 2011, 11:37:12 am
She obviously knew of his views on premartial sex before they started dating, while not a 100% lock, logic would suggest that she has a similiar desire to wait until marriage or would not be dating him. 

I am going to assume she is probably a virgin. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 28, 2011, 12:18:51 pm
Or she has a desire to wait until marriage if it means she can have Tim Tebow.

I'm pretty sure that she probably met an interested male at some point in her life prior to meeting Timmy.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on October 28, 2011, 12:22:51 pm
Not saying she's a virgin.  But what does that have to do with Tim Tebow?

Nothing. I was just helping those of us with a healthy photo fantasy after you warned us of the need for discussion with her.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 28, 2011, 01:58:31 pm
Or she has a desire to wait until marriage if it means she can have Tim Tebow.

I'm pretty sure that she probably met an interested male at some point in her life prior to meeting Timmy.
BINGO.  No doubt...


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on October 28, 2011, 02:31:19 pm
In all honesty ... I have a hard time buying that as Tim's girlfriend. Maybe it is, but she certainly doesn't seem conservative in her attire and I would think that would be high on his list ... being biblical and all. I know many gorgeous Christian women (God has blessed many men that serve Him) and I would be shocked to see them dressed in either that dress or bathing suit.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 28, 2011, 03:50:25 pm
In all honesty ... I have a hard time buying that as Tim's girlfriend. Maybe it is, but she certainly doesn't seem conservative in her attire and I would think that would be high on his list ... being biblical and all. I know many gorgeous Christian women (God has blessed many men that serve Him) and I would be shocked to see them dressed in either that dress or bathing suit.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/221509/MEGYN-KELLY-GQ.jpg)
(http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/2010+Miss+America+Pageant+qYSRYVqjsmYl.jpg)
(http://www.hollywoodcelebgossips.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/carrie-prejean-miss-california-usa-2009-picture-6.jpg)

The hardest part of this challenge is coming up with the names of hot conservative or Christian women.  I mean, Fox News doesn't exactly have a handy list of their army of cookiecutter blonde pinup anchors.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 28, 2011, 06:10:22 pm
OK, I confess. Erin Drewes is NOT actually Tebow's GF. But, damn....had most of the board going for a while, lol! GOTCHA!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 28, 2011, 07:36:05 pm
Just to clarify... EKnight, were you intentionally lying this whole time?

Further research shows that those two pictures are not the same girl.  The one with Tebow is Erin Drewes.  The one in the swimsuit is a British model named Lucy Pinder.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 28, 2011, 07:37:57 pm
Absolutely. Eric Drewes- the girl in the picture was a Playmate/Playboy model, who took ONE pic with Tebow and the whole thing got blown out of proportion. They're friends, nothing more. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 28, 2011, 07:39:49 pm
Cool.  Just wanted to make sure it was absolutely clear that your word should not be taken at face value, going forward.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 28, 2011, 07:41:53 pm
Nah... With the exception of some newer members, most folks on this board know that if I post something up here that isn't opinion-based, it's either something I am certain is true, or that I've taken the time to verify. Too many years spent writing for people with zero tolerance for erroneous information, so double-checking things is my default setting.
Tell me more about your tireless fact-checking process, good sir.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on October 28, 2011, 07:45:22 pm
Just to clarify... EKnight, were you intentionally lying this whole time?

Further research shows that those two pictures are not the same girl.  The one with Tebow is Erin Drewes.  The one in the swimsuit is a British model named Lucy Pinder.
I thought that was Lucy Pinder.  I'm what you say a fan of hers ;)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 28, 2011, 08:36:43 pm
Cool.  Just wanted to make sure it was absolutely clear that your word should not be taken at face value, going forward.

It was a joke. Lighten up. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 28, 2011, 10:40:08 pm
It was a joke. Lighten up. -EK

This is the internet.  We don't make jokes here.  :P

I don't care who the chick is.  I'm damn glad her pic was posted.  She needs to be looked at by me...and scientists who need to decipher the spaceage technology required to keep that suit from popping apart at the seams.  (or then again, maybe not)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Sunstroke on October 29, 2011, 02:15:36 am
Tell me more about your tireless fact-checking process, good sir.

I called Tebow personally to confirm... He had the bong out, but between hits he told me that not only is Erin Drewes his girlfriend, but that Lucy Pinder is as well, and that they both have his #15 shaved into their pubes.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on October 29, 2011, 02:27:45 am
I called Tebow personally to confirm... He had the bong out, but between hits he told me that not only is Erin Drewes his girlfriend, but that Lucy Pinder is as well, and that they both have his #15 shaved into their pubes.



LIAR!!!  Lucy Pinder is bald eagle bro.  Told you I was a fan.  ;)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on October 30, 2011, 06:28:03 pm
As a quick update here (at this moment):

Tebow is 6-20 with 74 yards and a Fumble. Lions up 38-3.

Unless he has a 35-point 4th quarter, all of the "haters" (e.g. logical people) will be right.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 30, 2011, 06:31:28 pm
Really? One game makes them right? What about all the non-haters who were "right" last week? Give me a break. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 30, 2011, 06:39:46 pm
I'd say seven of eight quarters makes them right, yes.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on October 30, 2011, 06:48:38 pm
He's 1-1 this season. People who only look at life in extremes- "this guys absolutely sucks," or "this guy's the best thing ever," need mental help. That's not healthy or realistic. I think he will turn out to be a less than average to average qb, but will nto be surprised to see him either succeed amazingly or fail miserably because.....wait for it....he's had a whopping 5 starts. Let the season play out before the "I told you so's" start. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on October 30, 2011, 07:31:45 pm
At what point does Denver put in Brady Quinn? It has to be soon. Tebow has had a good 2 minutes this year and if Marlon Moore catches an onside kick that 2 minutes of "greatness" would be reduced to 1 good drive.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on October 30, 2011, 08:10:35 pm
He's 1-1 this season. People who only look at life in extremes- "this guys absolutely sucks," or "this guy's the best thing ever," need mental help. That's not healthy or realistic. I think he will turn out to be a less than average to average qb, but will nto be surprised to see him either succeed amazingly or fail miserably because.....wait for it....he's had a whopping 5 starts. Let the season play out before the "I told you so's" start. -EK

I am not a hater. I always thought he was a fullback with a decent arm.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 30, 2011, 08:45:32 pm
It bears stating that he plays on a horrible team with a line that's even worse than our own.  He was under constant pressure and didn't have his starting running back or his best receiver (who got traded to St. Louis for some reason).

He was definitely pretty crappy today, but then again, so was his team.  When he did make plays, his receivers dropped the ball or fumbled it away.  He played against a pretty stout defense today that totally dominated every aspect of the game.  Tebow had a lot to overcome today and wasn't able to do it like he was last week.  Of course, he was playing an especially crappy team last week.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: miamid45 on October 30, 2011, 09:02:05 pm
Will be on the bench shortly....dreadful today...NO ACCURACY whatsoever!

Only claim to fame was 2 successful drives against a bad team...YIPEEE.

He sucks period!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: David Fulcher on October 31, 2011, 01:06:16 am
You forgot to mention he is the only starting college QB to go 4-0 in bowl games.

No, he's not.  Michigan beat that ass in the 2008 Capital One bowl, Lloyd Carr's last game (and interestingly enough, a game in which Chad Henne played really well).


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on October 31, 2011, 01:17:42 am
At what point does Denver put in Brady Quinn? It has to be soon.

This is a fair question.  But unless Quinn has the escapability of Tebow, you've gotta stick with the current starter.  That O-line can't block to save their lives and whoever the QB is is going to be running for their lives on a regular basis.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on October 31, 2011, 02:30:11 am
You forgot to mention he is the only starting college QB to go 4-0 in bowl games.

No, he's not.  Michigan beat that ass in the 2008 Capital One bowl, Lloyd Carr's last game (and interestingly enough, a game in which Chad Henne played really well).
I'm surprised that any Dolphin fan wouldn't know who the only college football QB to go 4-0 as a starter in bowl games is.

The good news is, I hear he's available... (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/pat-white-released-by-ufls-virginia-destroyers/)



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on October 31, 2011, 09:13:01 am
Really? One game makes them right? What about all the non-haters who were "right" last week? Give me a break. -EK

They were "right" for two series of an entire game.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on October 31, 2011, 09:14:36 am
No, he's not.  Michigan beat that ass in the 2008 Capital One bowl, Lloyd Carr's last game (and interestingly enough, a game in which Chad Henne played really well).

You aren't even talking about the same person I am. You should read closer. You also left off the biggest qualifier, Tebow didn't start four bowl games in his career.

Hint: check out my avatar, or at least see what I quoted.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on October 31, 2011, 10:30:13 am
You aren't even talking about the same person I am. You should read closer. You also left off the biggest qualifier, Tebow didn't start four bowl games in his career.

Hint: check out my avatar, or at least see what I quoted.
Or, look at page 3 of this thread... ::)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: David Fulcher on November 01, 2011, 01:32:18 am
You aren't even talking about the same person I am. You should read closer. You also left off the biggest qualifier, Tebow didn't start four bowl games in his career.

Hint: check out my avatar, or at least see what I quoted.

Or, look at page 3 of this thread... ::)

Hey, my bad!  I definitely jumped to conclusions on this one and--Brian, you're right--didn't read the whole thread before making my comment.  Granted, I assumed the statement was regarding Tebow due to the subject line, and for whatever reason, started out at the 4th page, but how I missed the fact it was about Pat White when I believe he was quoted in Phish's post itself... :D I hope that I can chalk it up to a lack of sleep these days. 

Regardless, as we all know, that's what I get for ass-uming anything.  I come off looking like the jackass.  Oh well...I just need to be more careful next time.  At least I can admit when I'm wrong, unlike a few *cough**cough*...other posters around here.   ;)  Once again, though, sorry about that, Phish. 

I'm surprised that any Dolphin fan wouldn't know who the only college football QB to go 4-0 as a starter in bowl games is.

The good news is, I hear he's available... (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/08/pat-white-released-by-ufls-virginia-destroyers/)


Spider, just because I made a silly mistake, doesn't mean there's a need to question my Dolphins fandom.  I love the 'Phins probably as much as any of the rest of you (actual Dolphins fans) on here.  If you could ask anybody that knows me, I think that's one of the first things they'd say about me, for better or worse...and at this point I think they just feel sorry for me.   :D...... :-[


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: David Fulcher on November 01, 2011, 01:40:21 am
Hint: check out my avatar, or at least see what I quoted.

Phish, I don't think you'll be able to stay too mad at me once you find this out anyways...though I never say anything about it because I feel like I would come off as a poser, since I never have lived there a day in my life and have only been there for one week for a family reunion over ten years ago, but my dad's side of the family all are from West Virginia, and my grandfather actually played for WVU from 1951-1954 (or maybe it was from '52-'55).  Anyways, he played a lot for them his last two seasons there, and I actually have his watch from the 1954 Sugar Bowl against Georgia Tech that was given to me a few years after he died in 1998.  So, even though I'm not the biggest WVU fan (though again, I probably should be since my granddad actually played for them, ha ha), I know their football, so the fact that I didn't realize/remember Pat White was 4-0 in bowl games and the fact it related to a post on my NFL team is a little ironic, I guess.....


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on November 01, 2011, 02:54:13 am
Spider, just because I made a silly mistake, doesn't mean there's a need to question my Dolphins fandom.  I love the 'Phins probably as much as any of the rest of you (actual Dolphins fans) on here.
Not questioning your fandom; I'm just surprised that you hadn't heard about how Pat White Was The Only 4-0 Quarterback in Bowl Games.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on November 01, 2011, 08:44:42 am
^^^^ I might have forgotten but I didn't know that either. Unfortunately , I think I forget something everytime I learn anything new these days.  :-\


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on November 01, 2011, 09:21:06 am
Phish, I don't think you'll be able to stay too mad at me once you find this out anyways...though I never say anything about it because I feel like I would come off as a poser, since I never have lived there a day in my life and have only been there for one week for a family reunion over ten years ago, but my dad's side of the family all are from West Virginia, and my grandfather actually played for WVU from 1951-1954 (or maybe it was from '52-'55).  Anyways, he played a lot for them his last two seasons there, and I actually have his watch from the 1954 Sugar Bowl against Georgia Tech that was given to me a few years after he died in 1998.  So, even though I'm not the biggest WVU fan (though again, I probably should be since my granddad actually played for them, ha ha), I know their football, so the fact that I didn't realize/remember Pat White was 4-0 in bowl games and the fact it related to a post on my NFL team is a little ironic, I guess.....

Not mad at all. I was just pointing out the error. Those years are quite a bit before my time so I wouldn't remember your grandfather. Pretty cool you have a Sugar Bowl watch though. That is something to hold on to.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: DenverFinFan on November 02, 2011, 11:01:18 pm
Yeah I got into this thread late. Anyway,  I like Tebow which is strange because I usually don't like super-religious pretty boys, but he's a real decent guy, and I hope he switched positions or go's to a wildcat team  ??? because he sucks at throwing passes, I hope he proves all of us wrong though. But maybe he'd make a good safety or TE or something.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 06, 2011, 07:38:01 pm
Tebow  124 yards passing....117 rushing today. Hey its balance. And they won. lol


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 06, 2011, 09:09:04 pm
2-1 with him as a starter....he's not Elway or Marino, but he's also not the 'garbage' haters want to make him. Haters keep hatin though....  -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on November 06, 2011, 10:24:01 pm
He still missed some passes he should have completed, but he and the rest of the team came together to pummel the Raiders when it mattered.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 06, 2011, 10:58:27 pm
I feel sorry for Broncos fans.  Really, I do.  The best thing for them is for Tebow to crash and burn quickly.  For him to creep around and keep the starting job -- that's going to cripple them in the long run.

A QB that can't throw is not a viable QB strategy.  It's good that Tebow's making the best of it.  I wish him well.  He's a nice guy and a good teammate.  But winning is masking the stink.  Eventually, they won't be able to cover it up any more.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mecadonzilla on November 06, 2011, 11:24:31 pm
They're not covering anything in Denver.  That's a wretched team.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on November 07, 2011, 12:02:34 am
So I have been a pretty big Tebow hater for a while.  I just want to point that out before I post the rest.  What if he redefines the QB position?  You have your pure pocket passers, you have your scrambling QBs...what if he is something different and it stays effective?  Sure it's ugly to watch.  If he can pretty much be a running back that throws, maybe he can make a career out of it.  A short career I'd say, but still maybe a successful one.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 07, 2011, 12:26:10 am
Because he's not an RB that can throw.  He's an RB that can't throw.  That's why.

What Tebow is able to do is essentially the option.  ...run like the Wildcat, really.  And that's good.  It's a good change of pace.  But, the NFL doesn't run the option over the long run, because the players are too disciplined and evenly skilled for it to work.

If Tebow does redefine the position and becomes a successful player at the position, I will hapilly eat crow. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on November 07, 2011, 12:47:45 am
I agree that AT BEST he may become an average NFL QB.  I was just playing devil's advocate a bit, and to quote Dumb and Dumber.  "So like one in a thousand?  More like one in a million.  So your saying there's a chance!"


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 07, 2011, 02:58:07 am
His stats today reaffirm my belief he is a fullback with a decent arm


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 07, 2011, 05:56:41 am
The TD pass to Royal was more than a Wildcat momment or a FB with an arm. It was a good throw- an NFL QB throw. I'm not saying he does that consistently, but if you point out the flaws, you gotta point out the non-flaws as well. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 07, 2011, 11:15:15 am
Sure.  He made some nice plays.  Credit given.  It's just

I don't want you think that I hate Tebow.  I want to be wrong about him.  He's a Gator, which I like, he's a "character guy", and above all, he's fun to watch, win or lose.  Him being around in the league is exciting and a good story.

I just don't think he's the guy to make the Broncos (or any team) better in the long run if he's playing a traditional QB role.  If he were to redefine the QB position, like someone before brought up, it would have to be by not playing QB.  ...playing a wildcat hybrid instead.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: David Fulcher on November 07, 2011, 02:19:33 pm
Those years are quite a bit before my time so I wouldn't remember your grandfather. Pretty cool you have a Sugar Bowl watch though. That is something to hold on to.

I know, Phish...I'm pretty happy that he decided to have it passed down to me, even though I didn't get it until 8 or 9 years later from my grandmother after his death, after I graduated college/started med. school.  Anyways, I've just had it sitting around for years now, but I need to put a new battery in there...because obviously the old one isn't quite ticking anymore!   :D

As for my opinion on the actual topic at hand...I'm one of those people who have watched Tebow fairly closely (of course, in this day and age of 24/7 media coverage, it's almost hard not to have), and I think I really like the guy, but like most others otherwise, I'm not sure I believe in his QB ability at the NFL level.  Like Dave, though, I'm in agreement that I'd like for him to prove me wrong, because I wish him well.  I think he'll deserve it if he ends up doing well, and I'd hate to see him flame out.  Maybe if he played for a team like the Pats/Jets/Bills, it'd be a different story, but I have no disdain for the Broncos one way or the other, so I wouldn't mind him doing well at all.  Just wish it hadn't happened against our 'Phins 3 weekends ago....  >:(


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 13, 2011, 04:17:45 pm
Everybody keep hating.....talk about how ugly those stats were...whatever. Broncos are now 3-1 with Tebow as a starter. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 13, 2011, 05:16:46 pm
I am not a Tebow hater, but at this point its clear the team is winning in spite of him. 2/8 for an NFL QB in a game is embarrassing.  The coaches didn't even have enough confidence in him throwing more than 10 passes today.

He wins though. Rather be lucky than good, but he sucks as a QB. That is clear as day.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on November 13, 2011, 05:30:41 pm
I am not a Tebow hater, but at this point its clear the team is winning in spite of him. 2/8 for an NFL QB in a game is embarrassing.  The coaches didn't even have enough confidence in him throwing more than 10 passes today.

He wins though. Rather be lucky than good, but he sucks as a QB. That is clear as day.

He's not really playing a traditional quarterback, though. They've gone full-out option. 50-some runs to 8 passes. Tebow had more keepers than he did pass attempts.

While he's CLEARLY not a good passer, that's not the whole story. He can run *and* doesn't throw interceptions. Orton was a freakin' interception machine before they put in Tebow.

The Broncos are two games out of the division lead with 7 to go. Honestly, Orton might still give them a better chance at winning the division, but they aren't going anywhere this year. What harm is there in trying to develop Tebow and see how far you can push him?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 13, 2011, 05:34:39 pm
He's not really playing a traditional quarterback, though. They've gone full-out option. 50-some runs to 8 passes. Tebow had more keepers than he did pass attempts.

While he's CLEARLY not a good passer, that's not the whole story. He can run *and* doesn't throw interceptions. Orton was a freakin' interception machine before they put in Tebow.

The Broncos are two games out of the division lead with 7 to go. Honestly, Orton might still give them a better chance at winning the division, but they aren't going anywhere this year. What harm is there in trying to develop Tebow and see how far you can push him?

Nothing is wrong with it and he wins games. Can't deny that. But Week 1 next year no way Tebow is starting in Denver. Not a chance. It's a gimmick offense (like year 1 of the Wildcat in Miami)......come year 2 teams will be able to stop it.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 13, 2011, 05:37:34 pm
He's not really playing a traditional quarterback, though. They've gone full-out option. 50-some runs to 8 passes. Tebow had more keepers than he did pass attempts.

While he's CLEARLY not a good passer, that's not the whole story. He can run *and* doesn't throw interceptions. Orton was a freakin' interception machine before they put in Tebow.

The Broncos are two games out of the division lead with 7 to go. Honestly, Orton might still give them a better chance at winning the division, but they aren't going anywhere this year. What harm is there in trying to develop Tebow and see how far you can push him?

So basically you are paying first round QB money for a big running back??


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 13, 2011, 05:53:18 pm
This is a unique situation where both those think Tebow is good and those that think he sucks are using the stats/results to further justify their stance. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on November 13, 2011, 06:55:21 pm
So basically you are paying first round QB money for a big running back??

Tebow is an amazing athlete -- even at the level of the NFL -- but that doesn't equate to being able to play the quarterback position.

So, the Broncos are paying first round money for a player who doesn't really fit the mold of ANY position in the NFL. But he's such an exceptional athlete, that you've got to try.

And the contract he signed is pretty unique. He basically got $2.5M up front and $2M a year for 5 years. The rest of the $33M contract is just incentives. Less than $9M of the whole contract is guaranteed.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 14, 2011, 02:31:14 am
This is a unique situation where both those think Tebow is good and those that think he sucks are using the stats/results to further justify their stance. 

His stats show no promise as a QB. They show an ability to run the ball well.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 14, 2011, 05:11:30 am
Yeah, but those that say "he's a winner" are using the win from those same crappy stat lines to prove their points.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on November 14, 2011, 08:19:38 am
How long before the Broncos start putting Tebow and Orton in the backfield at the same time, and running a full-on NIRSA flag football option offense, where you never know which QB is going to get the snap?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on November 14, 2011, 09:31:51 am
Tim Tebow is this generation's Kordell Stewart.

Remember when Pittsburgh drafted "Slash" back in the 90's? They knew he was a superior athlete, but knew that he was a god-awful traditional QB. So they had to find a way to put him on the field, and he played WR and some other ad-hoc positions.

Tebow is seeing a similar fate here. He's not NFL QB material, everyone can see that. But he is a unique athlete that can contribute to an offense IF used properly. The Broncos are figuring out how to use his uniqueness properly - and having him drop-back under center in the traditional QB role is not the right way to use him.

Is that worth a 1st-round pick and trading up? No, but they're stuck with it.
Is Tebow the future of the QB position for Denver? No, but they're stuck with it.
Should the Broncos continue to try to find a way to use Tebow? Yes, because he clearly can produce in other non-QB areas, such as rushing and creating / extending plays. Whether that's a split-option QB role, him lining up as an RB in a wildcat-like formation or some other position.

Clearly, 2/8 not only signifies that he can't throw, it also signifies that he is not even allowed to throw, which means the coaches have given up on him and rather not have him throw the football.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Jim Gray on November 14, 2011, 01:47:20 pm
I think this bizarre game plan has caught a few teams off guard.......similar to the wildcat a few years ago.  Now that teams have seen it, I expect them to prepare better for it and force Denver to pass the ball.  As much as I would like to see Denver beat the Jets, I don't see how they do it with a 1 dimensional offense. 

If you look at how Denver is winning, why isn't the defense being talked about? 



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 14, 2011, 05:00:55 pm
I think this bizarre game plan has caught a few teams off guard.......similar to the wildcat a few years ago.  Now that teams have seen it, I expect them to prepare better for it and force Denver to pass the ball.  As much as I would like to see Denver beat the Jets, I don't see how they do it with a 1 dimensional offense. 

If you look at how Denver is winning, why isn't the defense being talked about? 



Ummm they are beating crappy teams? When they play a good team, such as the Lions, they get killed. Tebow is leading this team to some minor victories over flawed teams.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 14, 2011, 05:37:40 pm
Tim Tebow is this generation's Kordell Stewart.

Remember when Pittsburgh drafted "Slash" back in the 90's? They knew he was a superior athlete, but knew that he was a god-awful traditional QB. So they had to find a way to put him on the field, and he played WR and some other ad-hoc positions.



Not even close. Kordell was a much better thrower/passer than Tebow is.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: masterfins on November 14, 2011, 06:25:32 pm
Not even close. Kordell was a much better thrower/passer than Tebow is.

Gotta Agree.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Jim Gray on November 14, 2011, 07:06:57 pm
Ummm they are beating crappy teams? When they play a good team, such as the Lions, they get killed. Tebow is leading this team to some minor victories over flawed teams.

I was going to say that (they are beating crappy teams) in my original post, so I don't disagree.  I decided not to put that in since they beat KC on the road and Oakland, which is leading the AFC west.  I fully expect Denver to struggle against even average teams.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 14, 2011, 07:37:44 pm
Thursday night we see Tebow vs the best defense in the league (he he) the Jets.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Jim Gray on November 15, 2011, 10:07:18 am
Prepare for another Tebow controversy - http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/tebow-custom-jerseys-create-hullabaloo.  Bottom line - some fans are getting Denver Bronco jerseys with Tebow's number (15) and the name "Jesus". 

First, let me say that this has nothing to do with Tebow.  He's not behind this, and I'm sure he wouldn't approve.  With that out of the way, I have two questions

1. Didn't the NFL ban licensed jerseys with "Mexico" on the back?  ("Ron Mexico" was the name M. Vick reportedly used when checking into clinics to be treated for herpes).  Since the NLF controls the licensing of all jerseys, can they effectively ban a name?
2. Christians are divided on whether this is appropriate or not.   I'm not religious and couldn't care less, but this sure seems blasphemous to me.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on November 15, 2011, 10:13:03 am
I didn't want to derail this thread, but I think I can still fit it in. There are many people with the legal name Jesus. Why is that not just as blasphemous?

Personally, I don't care about the jerseys either way.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: StL FinFan on November 15, 2011, 09:51:20 pm
I doubt they mean it as the name pronounced "hey zeus", but I would present a problem if someone with that name was effectively blocked from getting their name on a jersey.  Personally, I think putting "Jesus" on a Bronchos #15 is dumb.  If Tebow does have a problem with, he needs to speak up and ask people not to wear such things.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 16, 2011, 05:38:15 am
Prepare for another Tebow controversy - http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201111/tebow-custom-jerseys-create-hullabaloo.  Bottom line - some fans are getting Denver Bronco jerseys with Tebow's number (15) and the name "Jesus". 

First, let me say that this has nothing to do with Tebow.  He's not behind this, and I'm sure he wouldn't approve.  With that out of the way, I have two questions

1. Didn't the NFL ban licensed jerseys with "Mexico" on the back?  ("Ron Mexico" was the name M. Vick reportedly used when checking into clinics to be treated for herpes).  Since the NLF controls the licensing of all jerseys, can they effectively ban a name?
2. Christians are divided on whether this is appropriate or not.   I'm not religious and couldn't care less, but this sure seems blasphemous to me.


I think this actually shows where the true fan following for Tebow comes from. There is a big religious component to it that has not been as addressed  as it could be. The Broncos do not need Jesus, they need Moses to split the defense  and make it to the promised land


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on November 16, 2011, 07:45:06 am
The Broncos need every possible divine intervention that you can think of in order to win with Tebow as their QB:

- Moses splitting the red-sea
- Jesus performing miracles, turning water into wine
- Virgin births
- Re-incarnations
- David Tyree / Franco Harris-like catches
- Tom Brady "Tuck Rule"-like breaks
- Extra downs (like in that Michigan game some years back)
- Officials botching coin-flips (like Lions / Steelers on Thanksgiving)

...and all of this might still not be enough to win.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on November 18, 2011, 02:43:15 am
Proof God exists...Tebow is 4-1 as a starter...only explanation on how Tim Tebow is 4-1. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 18, 2011, 03:38:49 am
So the Broncos had less total yards than Sanchez did.
Guess they really do need to thank the D for getting that pick 6 and allowing them to win.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: shamrock on November 18, 2011, 03:55:18 am
Tebow just wins! I hope he wins a super bowl someday,if nothing else just to prove the so called "experts" wrong.How can you not just love this kid? He plays hard nosed old school football and even his Broncos teammates are starting to admit that there's just something about this guy that makes everyone around him play harder.And I love the fact that he puts God first in his life.I'm definately a fan!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 18, 2011, 04:33:27 am
Tebow just wins! I hope he wins a super bowl someday,if nothing else just to prove the so called "experts" wrong.How can you not just love this kid? He plays hard nosed old school football and even his Broncos teammates are starting to admit that there's just something about this guy that makes everyone around him play harder.And I love the fact that he puts God first in his life.I'm definately a fan!

Old school football? Is he going to try the jump pass to improve his rating?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 18, 2011, 06:17:37 am
Just like last week, I will say the same thing. Haters keep hating. He's now 4-1. The only thing that has changed in terms of personel in Denver in the past 6 weeks is that they traded away their best receiver, and began starting Tebow. It's the SAME BUNCH OF GUYS. Let the excuses fly- they do every week- but Tebow is a winner. He gets the people around him to play better. Once is an anamoly, twice is a coincidence. Four times? 92 out of the 95 game winning yards in the fourth quarter drive? NOTHING makes me happier than watching know-it-all's eat crow. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on November 18, 2011, 07:47:53 am
Tebow still sucks. There's no question about it that he is not a traditional NFL QB.

The Broncos are using him correctly, and it's making a difference. Eventually, though, the league will catch up to this game-plan and Tebow will either have to seriously improve his QB play or he will be a back-up journey-man QB who will never see the field unless it's pre-season.

Please stop with the "all he does is win" bullshit, because he is now 6-3 as a starter (not 4-1) and 6-3 as a starter is nothing to write home about. Stop saying "he's a winner" because he hasn't done shit yet in this league. Stop saying he has "values" and he's a "team leader" and he's a "team player", because the NFL has a lot of those guys. Stop it.

Start using your brains, people. Tebow still sucks. He's never going to win a Super Bowl, his team will never be that great, and he will never ever ever be a good NFL QB. He's a back-up QB on a shitty team playing against other shitty teams. So far this season, the Dolphins, the Chiefs, and the Jets all are mediocre or worse. The one good team, the Lions, completely killed him. You can't win a Super Bowl or a playoff game if you can only beat the shitty teams like the Dolphins.

Tim Tebow is still garbage, and just like the Wildcat fad of the 2008 season and the Michael Vick love fest of 2010, once teams start to game-plan for it, it's over.

Get it through your thick christian heads.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 18, 2011, 07:55:06 am
Broncos had what like 125 total yards for 55 min, final drive they get 95 yards.

Tebow sucks but when he sees the finish line and a win he grabs it! Which counts for something


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on November 18, 2011, 07:56:17 am
Tebow Tracker:

Week 12: @ Chargers (Again, a shitty team with a shitty coach like Norv Turner, so I'm sure Tebow will rush for more yards than he will throw for)

Week 13: @ Vikings (Another shitty team, ripe for the Tebowing)

Week 14: vs. Bears (The Bears are playing good enough this season to shut the Broncos down. Tebow will have a bad day)

Week 15: vs. New England (Uh-Oh)

Week 16: @ Bills (Another fraud of a team)

Week 17: vs. Chiefs (Yet another fraud of a team)

It's easy to look good when you play against a pack of shit teams - ask Tony Sparano about the 2008 Wildcat season and how that is now being called "a mirage" by fans, as a fad due to a weak personnel roster led to the implementation of the "Wildcat" against a very poor collection of teams, where they lost not only the playoff game (badly) but they lost against the better teams, not the Chiefs and Redskins of the world.

Tim Tebow Teblows.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on November 18, 2011, 07:58:12 am
Broncos had what like 125 total yards for 55 min, final drive they get 95 yards.

Tebow sucks but when he sees the finish line and a win he grabs it! Which counts for something

Yes. It does count for something. He is a closer and he shows up in the final minutes in the 4th quarter.

However, you know that against the Jets and Dolphins (crappy teams) that you can get away with this. The team's game-plan can't just continue to be "Let's let him play the whole game, even if he sucks for 55 minutes and shows up in the final 5". Against the Lions, and against playoff-caliber and championship-caliber teams, this strategy or approach will not work.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 18, 2011, 08:02:16 am
Yes. It does count for something. He is a closer and he shows up in the final minutes in the 4th quarter.

However, you know that against the Jets and Dolphins (crappy teams) that you can get away with this. The team's game-plan can't just continue to be "Let's let him play the whole game, even if he sucks for 55 minutes and shows up in the final 5". Against the Lions, and against playoff-caliber and championship-caliber teams, this strategy or approach will not work.

It's a gimmick offense. It will fool people THIS year. Next year it won't. But he can enjoy the ride now while it lasts. Might even sneak out a playoff spot.

But no doubt Tebow can't play QB in this. That game last night was brutal for 55 min. He did nothing. But made up for it with 1 nice drive late


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: mboss on November 18, 2011, 08:19:38 am
Tebow just wins! I hope he wins a super bowl someday,if nothing else just to prove the so called "experts" wrong.How can you not just love this kid? He plays hard nosed old school football and even his Broncos teammates are starting to admit that there's just something about this guy that makes everyone around him play harder.And I love the fact that he puts God first in his life.I'm definately a fan!
God should have given him better passing mechanics.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on November 18, 2011, 10:32:03 am
Tebow still sucks.

disagree.

Quote
There's no question about it that he is not a traditional NFL QB.

Agree.

Quote
The Broncos are using him correctly, and it's making a difference.

Good coaching staffs do that. 

Quote
Eventually, though, the league will catch up to this game-plan and Tebow will either have to seriously improve his QB play or he will be a back-up journey-man QB who will never see the field unless it's pre-season.

Some of this success come from Denver running a unique offense.  But most QB and certainly any QB that remains in the league improves over time.  Or do you claim that Tom Brady was just as good in 2000 as he is now, Peyton was in his rookie year as was last year.  That Rodgers didn't benifit from seveal years of development on the bench.  That Marino didn't improve over time. 

While you statement is accurate about Tebow needing to improve if he is to remain a starter, it is equally true about Sanchez, Newton, Dalton, Moore, McCoy, Bradford, Stafford, Freeman, Painter, and Henne. 

His passer rating is higher this year and was last year than Eli Manning's was his first four years in the leauge, including the year the Giants won the superbowl.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 18, 2011, 11:09:17 am
Just so I'm clear on this: before the Jets game, Tebow was going to get blown up by their amazing D, and after he wins, somehow he only wins against shitty teams? The same team that was supposed to beat Denver with their oh-so-great defense got their ass handed to them in the fourth quarter, when it counted, by Tebow who gained 92 yards BY HIMSELF. But he sucks? And you try to further your argument by saying "he's 6-3, not 4-1!" Either way he's three games over .500. That means he's a winner. There's no way to argue the numbers. At all. It doesn't matter how ugly his passes are or how inefficient he "appears" to you. His win last night, and the way he did it, is the leading story on every sports radio show and sports TV. Why is that? Because he sucks? Doubtful... -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: AZ Fins Fan 55 on November 18, 2011, 11:20:40 am
The Broncos are using him correctly, and it's making a difference. Eventually, though, the league will catch up to this game-plan and Tebow will either have to seriously improve his QB play or he will be a back-up journey-man QB who will never see the field unless it's pre-season.

This sums up how I feel about him. Yes he is doing a fine job closing games at the moment with a ton of help from his defense and running game. However, just like the wildcat which took the league by storm and turned a turd of a Dolphins team around, teams will catch on to his style and unless he can drastically improve his passing game he will never be more than a one trick pony.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: masterfins on November 18, 2011, 11:45:07 am
Tim Tebow's the real deal, I've become a believer!   ;)  He knocked Fat Rex's d1@k in the dirt, I hope he wins a Super Bowl Ring this year.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on November 18, 2011, 12:58:27 pm
Holy crap Tebow throws poorly. He does present son unique challenges, though, and the Jets were prepared and pissed. Poor quarterback play by Sanchez is what really cost them. He had one good throw all game, an awful pick-6, a huge overthrow of his huge tight-end alone in the endzone , and another dropped int or two. Sanchez led the league in dropped interceptions last year (while Henne was at the very other end). All those defensive drops have really bumped his stats... And probably kept him from taking a huge hit to his confidence. I still think he can become a good quarterback, but those that suggest he's already there... Give Ricky his stash back.

As for Tebow, he's an awful passer right now. But can his other skills give him enough time to improve his passing game? Without it, I don't see him at quarterback for long.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 18, 2011, 03:10:33 pm
I love this Tebow thing, because I'm not a Bronco fan.  If I liked the Broncos, I'd have consistant diarreah.  Keep fooling yourself...  The Broncos are winning in spite of Tebow's play.  They are doing a job using him as effectively as possible, but his style of play and his stat line is not a long term solution against viable defenses.  If it were a player other than Tebow, winning under these circumstances, you wouldn't see the same fanfare.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on November 18, 2011, 03:22:45 pm
Actually his style is perfect for DENVER particularly at home.

Two minutes into the game someone asked me what I thought would happen.  My response was I expected the game to stay close until the 4th quarter and then Denver would be able to march down the field at will. 

A primarily run offense + high altitute = a 4th quarter opposing defense that is so tired they couldn't stop a pee wee team. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on November 18, 2011, 05:30:46 pm
A primarily run offense + high altitute = a 4th quarter opposing defense that is so tired they couldn't stop a pee wee team. 

The Jets didn't seem tired on that last drive, though...

And although it might have been the lack of oxygen that caused the Jets to all-out blitz on the Tebow touchdown run (I can almost hear Gregg Easterbrook fire off one of his anti-blitz rants), it wasn't because the players were tired.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 18, 2011, 06:30:02 pm
Just so I'm clear on this: before the Jets game, Tebow was going to get blown up by their amazing D, and after he wins, somehow he only wins against shitty teams? The same team that was supposed to beat Denver with their oh-so-great defense got their ass handed to them in the fourth quarter, when it counted, by Tebow who gained 92 yards BY HIMSELF. But he sucks? And you try to further your argument by saying "he's 6-3, not 4-1!" Either way he's three games over .500. That means he's a winner. There's no way to argue the numbers. At all. It doesn't matter how ugly his passes are or how inefficient he "appears" to you. His win last night, and the way he did it, is the leading story on every sports radio show and sports TV. Why is that? Because he sucks? Doubtful... -EK

Even with that "amazing" drive, if it were not for the much improved defense getting a pick 6, there is not even a chance for a "miracle" drive.
Face it, it is only his "supposed" virginity and strict adherence to a religious sect that is driving this hype machine. This guy is Steve Young with worse mechanics and more size.
Until he beats a few legitimate teams, he is a sideshow freak.
For the record the Jets D is way overrated this year, just like the Eagles Dream Team.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 18, 2011, 06:47:35 pm
Mayock said it best last night, the problem with Tebow is no two passes he throws look alike. When he throws a ball it could go anywhere and everywhere, even he doesn't know.

If he spends an entire offseason throwing like 200 balls a day, he might kill his arm for a bit, but if he could even become an ok to mediocre passer he would have a starting job in this league for some time.

But at this rate he is a gimmick running a gimmick offense. And he will keep starting as long as he wins. But with all gimmicks, eventually the league catches on to them and its over.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 18, 2011, 06:50:00 pm
BSmooth- Ridiculous argument- you play the schedule you're given. He's won 4 out of five games, and don't forget, he nearly won the San Diego game for them when he came in the second half down two touchdowns. I don't think he's the second coming, but I do think he has won at every level he has played, and don't forget, that defense you're talking about lined up every down with Orton under center, and yet somehow they just magically, coincidentally start playing better when Tebow starts, and that has nothing to do with the effect he has on the team? You can't really be that short-sighted can you? No matter what the guy does, some people will absolutely love him, and some will absolutely hate him. Being this short-sighted in your ability to view the world is a character flaw that I hope is limited only to sports. If not, it's called lunacy. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on November 27, 2011, 10:16:10 pm
Another comeback win for Tebow despite all the trash talk about him. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Brian Fein on November 28, 2011, 12:10:34 am
Tebow didn't win that game for him.  McGahee ran for 24 yards to put them in FG range, and Tebow gets all the credit for that too?  What the hell?  He really handed the ball off well to McGahee.

Please.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on November 28, 2011, 12:23:25 am
Winning is all that matters!  Tebowmania must continue!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 28, 2011, 01:29:22 am
BSmooth- Ridiculous argument- you play the schedule you're given. He's won 4 out of five games, and don't forget, he nearly won the San Diego game for them when he came in the second half down two touchdowns. I don't think he's the second coming, but I do think he has won at every level he has played, and don't forget, that defense you're talking about lined up every down with Orton under center, and yet somehow they just magically, coincidentally start playing better when Tebow starts, and that has nothing to do with the effect he has on the team? You can't really be that short-sighted can you? No matter what the guy does, some people will absolutely love him, and some will absolutely hate him. Being this short-sighted in your ability to view the world is a character flaw that I hope is limited only to sports. If not, it's called lunacy. -EK

No I am able to look past an unprecedented amount of hype to look at a crappy QB who is only capable of running( quite literally with the 22 rushes today alone). Orton did not make the defense play worse, they did not live up to expectations early in the season and now they are performing at the level expected. Tebow has rushed the most times for a QB since 1950 when the game evolved.
I can also look forward enough to realize he has played one good team and lost badly. He is not even the future of the team. Even his college coach said Tebow was surrounded by lot of talent when he won. There is nothing special about Tebow as a QB or a player, other than the fact he is better rb than most mobile QB's.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 28, 2011, 02:34:19 pm
So...the fact that he is now 5-1, has beaten three teams that were in the playoffs last year, including one that Orton couldn't beat in week five, has 3 come from behind wins, and has beaten the Jets and Raiders (both with winning records) and San Diego (perrenial playoff team), but doesn't play the kind of football you think a QB should means he sucks? I just don't get it. He has a better W-L record this year than anyone not named Aaron Rodgers, but he sucks. The defense suddenly just played better out of sheer coincidence when he became a starter, and yet, he's a crappy QB? Wow....if only Miami had a QB who sucked so bad, that he suddenly could take our team from 1-4 to a game out of first place, and in the playoff hunt. The entire style of the game they play using the option has kept them in all but one game. If he sucks so bad, why isn't every team that Denver plays doing what Detroit did? You have Tebow figured out, so what is it that you know, sitting behind a computer sceen that the Dolphins, Raiders, Chiefs, Jets, and Chargers DON'T know? I mean, since 3 of those teams rank int he top half of the league in total dfense, surely one of them- with an entire coaching staff dedicated to defense- could have figured out what you did, and said, "Egads man! Tebow sucks. We can beat the Broncos based on that alone!" Haters keep hating. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 28, 2011, 02:41:51 pm
The Broncos are 5-1...not Tebow.  The Broncos defense is playing well.  Tebow is not.

He deserves credit for the times he's played well, but the team is not winning BECAUSE of Tebow.  Over the long haul, Tebow's poor passing will catch up with the team.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 28, 2011, 02:51:09 pm
You know, I'm not even disagreeing with that. In fact, I think you're right. I just don't understand all the venom for the guy, and the repeated, "he's worse than gonorrhea and genital herpes combined" when, for whatever reason, the guy just keeps winning. One game is an anomaly. Two is a coincidence. Three...um, a trend? 4? 5? If he finishes the season 8-3 as a starter- which isn't that unlikely, with the Vikings, Bills, and Chiefs still ahead of him- who cares if he throws the ball 4 times a game. Denver will be in the playoffs, and 20 other teams will be wondering how they allowed Tebow to get in there and not them. Where would you rather be? A win is a win. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on November 28, 2011, 03:02:23 pm
^ A win is not a win, when you're using that data to make decisions for the future.

Past performance is an indicator of future results.  But if you're seeing the Broncos win and are assessing that to Tebow's performance, you're making an error, in my opinion.  If you trust in his play to continue that winning in future seasons, you'll have hurt your franchise.  A win is a win, in terms of what it means on the books, yes -- however, you can't just keep doing those aspects that aren't working and expect to continue winning into the future.

Tebow has Venom spewed at him by his haters, because they feel that he is being unfairly praised for his role in victories.  That's why.  If nobody were over-praising Tebow, nobody would be over-criticizing him.  Each side fuels the other.

If I turn out to be wrong about Tebow, it will be not because I misjudged Tebow, but because I misjudged what it takes to win in the NFL.  I don't think that Tebow will ever be a good passer.  From what we've seen, I think it would be very difficult to realistically make that prediction.  Perhaps his style will change the way the game is played, but like other gimmicks, it will fade and the magnifying glass will focus on the liability of it, when things like the defense and running game hit a slump...which happens will all NFL teams.

My brothers-in-law were giving Tebow credit for how the Broncos defense is playing.  They were saying that he hypes everyone up and they play better.  That is the part of Tebow-mania that I refuse to buy into.  I know he's a great teammate, and I can see his receivers and linemen playing harder, knowing that their QB isn't giving up on them.  ...but that's as far as it goes.  But, EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE, it won't be true forever.  Tebow will eventually have to rely on his arm to get him out of jams, and I think he'll be unable.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on November 28, 2011, 03:04:48 pm
Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with that, but I'd take 6-5 and in the payoff hunt right now over 3-8 and bitching about next year. ;) -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on November 28, 2011, 05:52:33 pm
You know, I'm not even disagreeing with that. In fact, I think you're right. I just don't understand all the venom for the guy, and the repeated, "he's worse than gonorrhea and genital herpes combined" when, for whatever reason, the guy just keeps winning. One game is an anomaly. Two is a coincidence. Three...um, a trend? 4? 5? If he finishes the season 8-3 as a starter- which isn't that unlikely, with the Vikings, Bills, and Chiefs still ahead of him- who cares if he throws the ball 4 times a game. Denver will be in the playoffs, and 20 other teams will be wondering how they allowed Tebow to get in there and not them. Where would you rather be? A win is a win. -EK

The venom comes from ungodly amount of sugar and praise being hyped onto one player who is benefiting from the whole teams play. McGahee said after the game that they won as a team and no single person did it.
Your so called football vision has ignored the fact the defense is playing much better than the start of the season. Dumerville is back to form and has combined for 10 sacks the last 3 games. The defense keeps the other teams close enough that the offense has a chance to win in the 4th.
Let's not forget it took the Chargers missing a 53 yard FG in OT to win. Who kept the Chargers from getting closer? Was it Tebow?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on November 28, 2011, 05:53:24 pm
A more interesting question, IMHO, is how much will Tebow's passing have to improve for him to keep starting at quarterback in years to come (somewhere, not necessarily in Denver)? He clearly has some skills in the non-passing department...

And CAN he even improve sufficiently? I have to believe that management in Denver (whether its John Fox, Elway, or someone else) will quietly talk to him about getting a coach for the off-season to improve his mechanics etc., privately and away from the Broncos, of course (can't have players actually working out at team facilities during the off-season, trying to better themselves).

Personally, I think he has a chance if he really commits to becoming a better passing quarterback. Otherwise, he'll be lucky to last more than half the 2012 season as a starter.

The issues he has can be worked on and one shouldn't underestimate the fact that he'll have a 11 games of full-speed NFL under his belt (providing he doesn't get injured). A few months of intensive off-season "refinement" of his mechanics and working on defensive reads could allow him really improve next year. And if he can even improve into a slightly below average NFL passer, he has a real shot at sticking around for a while (barring injury).


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on November 29, 2011, 06:29:05 am
saw a stat yesterday, before Tebow started playing the defense was giving up around 28pts a game. Since Tebow took over they are given up around 20pts a game.

That's why they are winning really


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on November 29, 2011, 09:13:00 am

And CAN he even improve sufficiently? I have to believe that management in Denver (whether its John Fox, Elway, or someone else) will quietly talk to him about getting a coach for the off-season to improve his mechanics etc., privately and away from the Broncos, of course (can't have players actually working out at team facilities during the off-season, trying to better themselves).

Personally, I think he has a chance if he really commits to becoming a better passing quarterback.

Do you think this is some kind of revelation and hasn't already been done? They have been talking about Tebow working with passing coaches since the draft was still just an upcoming thing for him. How much more can he learn or improve at this stage of the game?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on November 29, 2011, 09:35:55 am
Do you think this is some kind of revelation and hasn't already been done? They have been talking about Tebow working with passing coaches since the draft was still just an upcoming thing for him. How much more can he learn or improve at this stage of the game?

Of course he's worked with passing coaches. He did a lot to work on his mechanics leading up to the draft, but during training camp this year, John Fox bemoaned the lockout and the detrimental effect it had on young players, Tebow in particular. Reports from camp indicated that his mechanics had regressed from the end of the 2010 season -- as indeed the fall from presumptive starter to backup proved.

What I'm talking about is spending an insane amount of time working on his mechanics and making some "basic" pro defensive reads. Prior to the draft, he didn't have a set offense, he didn't have the experience of throwing to NFL receivers running a full tree, reading and reacting to NFL defenses... being HIT by NFL linebackers. That body of experience could, if nothing else, instill in Tebow a sense of just how hard he needs to work to become an average NFL passer.

He didn't do that last off-season, for whatever reason, but I think it's POSSIBLE for him to improve significantly. He needs to realize the work that it will take and actually do it... and it will probably take regular feedback from the Broncos coaching staff to sort of guide things in the right direction.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on November 29, 2011, 09:51:27 am
Do you think this is some kind of revelation and hasn't already been done? They have been talking about Tebow working with passing coaches since the draft was still just an upcoming thing for him. How much more can he learn or improve at this stage of the game?

How much do you think Brady can learn from the game? He works with passing/QB coaches too.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on November 29, 2011, 09:53:37 am
^^^ I really hope you see the difference in the two situations.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: masterfins on November 29, 2011, 12:14:07 pm
saw a stat yesterday, before Tebow started playing the defense was giving up around 28pts a game. Since Tebow took over they are given up around 20pts a game.

That's why they are winning really

Not saying your wrong, without looking at other stats, but this stat on its own can be misleading.  For example if the offense under Tebow is eating up a lot of clock time because he is running the ball, it keeps the other teams' offense off the field, hence it helps Denver's defense.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 04, 2011, 04:19:52 pm
A ha ha ha ha ha! 6-1 as a starter. They're in first place in the freaking division with Oakland. Tebow comes back on the road AGAIN. Come on with it- "it was only Minnesota"; "it was the defense"; he throws funny." Tebow is ridiculous. Haters keep hatin. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: dolphins4life on December 04, 2011, 04:29:25 pm
I think we can put him with the elite now.  Look at how well he has played.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 04, 2011, 04:31:36 pm
I think we can put him with the elite now.  Look at how well he has played.

Oh, no......don't think for a minute that SOME people will change their minds. Guaran-freaking-tee that the haters will start popping off any moment now. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 04, 2011, 04:38:14 pm
Yes, he can be placed with elite QBs like Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco.

Because record is the only stat that matters.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 04, 2011, 04:44:04 pm
My sarcasm filter is acting up... Tebow 'elite'? That's sarcastic, right? I mean, no one could actually seriously consider him ELITE...


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 04, 2011, 04:51:59 pm
Oh, no......don't think for a minute that SOME people will change their minds. Guaran-freaking-tee that the haters will start popping off any moment now. -EK

He finally had a decent day passing.  But then again Willis had another really good day rushing, and the defense got another pick 6 followed by a second pick. But you are right, it was "only" Tebow.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 04, 2011, 05:16:07 pm
A "decent" passing day? He had a qb rating of 149.3. That's a little more than decent. There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter." -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 04, 2011, 05:37:17 pm
A "decent" passing day? He had a qb rating of 149.3. That's a little more than decent. There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter." -EK

For a football guy you sure ignore a lot of important stats. For instance as of today the Broncos defense has 33 sacks and interceptions. Since Tebow's first start the defense has racked up 20 sacks and 5 picks, to include both "pick 6's" they have. 
While you and the other kool aide drinkers just look at his record, the rest of us will look at the fact the defense has risen up and given the offense the chance to win games late.
But you are right, it is nothing but unadulterated hatred to bring up the fact the Broncos are winning because of other factors not named Tebow.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 04, 2011, 05:52:50 pm
Important stats? The ONLY stat that matters is wins and losses. I'll take 6-1 over the fantasy football BS stats that everyone else is in love with. After a 1-4 start, the team is likely going to win the divison and make the playoffs. They are the exact same team in every single aspect since them except for 2 things: 1) they traded away their best WR, which hould have hurt them, and 2) they are starting Tebow. I'm sure the turn around is all coincidence. 4 come from behind wins, with what- three of them on the road? All the result of everyone ELSE on the field. Tebow with a higher QB rating than Rivers when they played eachother- also, somehow, everyone ELSE's doing. If he sucks so bad, and everyone knows what his "one trick" is, then how come he keeps torching people in the fourth quarter? It doesn't even seem to surprise the announcers anymore- they EXPECT it. Expectations of great play= greatness. But keep hatin. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 04, 2011, 06:13:12 pm
Important stats? The ONLY stat that matters is wins and losses. I'll take 6-1 over the fantasy football BS stats that everyone else is in love with. After a 1-4 start, the team is likely going to win the divison and make the playoffs. They are the exact same team in every single aspect since them except for 2 things: 1) they traded away their best WR, which hould have hurt them, and 2) they are starting Tebow. I'm sure the turn around is all coincidence. 4 come from behind wins, with what- three of them on the road? All the result of everyone ELSE on the field. Tebow with a higher QB rating than Rivers when they played eachother- also, somehow, everyone ELSE's doing. If he sucks so bad, and everyone knows what his "one trick" is, then how come he keeps torching people in the fourth quarter? It doesn't even seem to surprise the announcers anymore- they EXPECT it. Expectations of great play= greatness. But keep hatin. -EK
Those are not fantasy stats, they are facts. They represent the third thing that is different from Orting, but of course you have to shoot them down because it deflates your whole theory it is only because of Tebow period.
Torching? You mean his top receiver being left wide open for three passes of 40 yds or more? Two of those come from behind wins are directly related to the defense's play. The pick 6 against the Jets was a game changer, and the same with both interception today. One allowed them to go into half time down 15-7 as opposed to 15-0, and the last interception was returned so deep into Vikings territory, that it allowed the offense to get into field goal range with seconds left.
For the record Tebow was only 6 for 8 in the second half, but due to the fact the Vikings forgot to cover Thomas( who is developing into a very good receiver) Tebow got a ton of yards.
Now that the Bears are depleted on offense, I expect the Broncos to be able to shut them down at home.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 04, 2011, 06:18:15 pm
I'm not saying it's only because of Tebow. I'm saying the same thing that I've said since day one in this thread- Tebow is a winner. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. He hasn't single-handedly won any games, but there is SOMETHING that he is doing that the entire team is responding to better than any QB in Denver since Elway. The title of this thread is "Tim Tebow is garbage." Complete BS. The guy is 6-1. Dance around that however you want. He's NOT a loser, NOT garbage, and the amount of hate you keep throwing his way is starting to make you look a little foolish in light of the fact that he keeps winning. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 04, 2011, 06:22:09 pm
I'm not saying it's only because of Tebow. I'm saying the same thing that I've said since day one in this thread- Tebow is a winner. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. He hasn't single-handedly won any games, but there is SOMETHING that he is doing that the entire team is responding to better than any QB in Denver since Elway. The title of this thread is "Tim Tebow is garbage." Complete BS. The guy is 6-1. Dance around that however you want. He's NOT a loser, NOT garbage, and the amount of hate you keep throwing his way is starting to make you look a little foolish in light of the fact that he keeps winning. -EK

I never called him a loser, or garbage. I said he is a running back with a decent arm. His college coach said if you surround him with the right talent, Tebow will win, as he was surrounded by talent at Florida.
He has a very good rb, Thomas is going to as good if not better than Lloyd. He is also benefiting from a defense that is gelling.
My problem is that Tebow is getting all the accolades for a win streak that is clearly a team effort. His teammates may have confidence in him, but they are winning as a team period.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 04, 2011, 09:38:06 pm
The Tebow jock sniffing by some really is funny.

I don't bash the guy, he wins and that counts for something. But the way some go overboard defending him and praising him is funny.

Jock Sniffing at it's finest!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 04, 2011, 09:55:55 pm
The Tebow jock sniffing by some really is funny.

I don't bash the guy, he wins and that counts for something. But the way some go overboard defending him and praising him is funny.

Jock Sniffing at it's finest!

I cannot deny his team is winning. But I see it as more of a team achievement and not because of an individual.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 04, 2011, 09:58:49 pm
I cannot deny his team is winning. But I see it as more of a team achievement and not because of an individual.

And that's a fair point I can't disagree with. I don't love or hate Tebow. I give him more credit than most probably but I see you're point and can't knock it. I just find the people who "praise" him and reject anything bad people say about his ability, that they go way over the top and I find it funny. That's all.

Tebow belongs in the NFL and is earning his stripes this year. But the over the top love-fest some heap upon him is just tough to take.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 05, 2011, 12:25:45 am
A "decent" passing day? He had a qb rating of 149.3. That's a little more than decent.
He passed the ball 15 times.  Passer rating is not a useful tool when a QB barely even throws the ball.

LaDainian Tomlinson has a career passer rating of 146.9.  Does this mean he was secretly the best quarterback to ever play the game, and just happened to play the wrong position?  No.  It means he's thrown 12 passes in his career and 7 of them were touchdowns.

Here (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING) is the current passer statistics page on NFL.com.  You will notice that while Matt Moore and Tim Tebow both became starters on their team's 5th game, Moore is listed and Tebow is not.  That's because Tebow doesn't meet the minimum attempt qualifiers.

Quote
There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter."
There are at least 31 RBs in the NFL that wish they could say, "We have won every game I have started."  That doesn't mean that Ryan Grant is the best tailback in the league.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 05, 2011, 10:49:07 am
There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter." -EK

I think it might be more than 30.  Granted a few of them are injured or benched. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 05, 2011, 10:58:41 am
Spider- no one, least of all me, ever claimed he was the best qb in the league. Where do you come up with your debate points? Did you subscribe to the MikeO theory of all or nothing extremes? I digress; comparing Tebow to Moore when one is 6-1 and beat the other head to head, and the other is 4-3 doesn't really help your argument. How is it that when I point out that the guy is a winner- he's won at every level, done everything asked of him by his coaches and team mates, and admit that he has rallied his entire team to play better- that somehow you interpret that as "Tebow is the best qb in football."? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 05, 2011, 11:02:57 am
Quarterbacks don't play head-to-head.  Tebow played extremely poorly in the Miami game.  The Broncos won in spite of what Tebow did in that game.

Tebow has improved.  I'll give you that.  But his play is not the leading factor in what's causing the team turnaround.  In fact, many people believe that Tebow's play is a hindrance.  There's some "magic" (that Tebow deserves credit for) in that he's able to hang in there and not lose the game for them until that point, though (mostly because they don't let him throw very much.)

Those that don't believe in Tebow think that this strategy of having a QB who's will throw as little as possible, because he doesn't have the passing skill is a failing long-term strategy.  I am one of those people.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 05, 2011, 12:23:17 pm
Spider- no one, least of all me, ever claimed he was the best qb in the league.
You said that there are 30 other QBs that wish they had his record.  What, exactly, was your point in mentioning this?

Quote
I digress; comparing Tebow to Moore when one is 6-1 and beat the other head to head, and the other is 4-3 doesn't really help your argument.
Funny that you say that, because while you can compare the record of their teams, Tebow hasn't even passed the ball enough to qualify for the NFL's passer statistics page.  That was the entire point of my comparison; not that Tebow is better than a QB who got cut from a 2-14 team (?!), but that another QB who has started just as many games has met the minimum attempt qualifiers, while Tebow has not.

Quote
How is it that when I point out that the guy is a winner- he's won at every level, done everything asked of him by his coaches and team mates, and admit that he has rallied his entire team to play better- that somehow you interpret that as "Tebow is the best qb in football."?
When you say that 30 other starting QBs wish they were doing as well as him, it sure sounds like you're saying he's a top 2 QB.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 05, 2011, 12:58:32 pm
Then you've missed every other post I put int his thread. I've said throughout the entire thread that he is good, not great, and that I was disagreeing with the fundamental premise of the thread: "Tim Tebow is garbage." Insofar as your repeated argument that he doesn't have enough passing attempts to qualify for a QB rating, that's funny, since, on his player page, his rating is clearly 87.9. While you're wrappng your head around that, keep in mind that part of the reason he's not in the NFL "total" list is because he doesn't pass frequently. The other part is that he's only played in 7 games+ one quarter. If he played the entire season- even with his limited attempts- he would qualify. For the record, 87.9 puts him at about #10 overall. That's about where, IMO, he stands. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 05, 2011, 02:08:05 pm
Then you've missed every other post I put int his thread. I've said throughout the entire thread that he is good, not great, and that I was disagreeing with the fundamental premise of the thread: "Tim Tebow is garbage."
Don't insist that you aren't declaring Tebow a top QB in the league one post after you say 30 other QBs envy his record.

Quote
Insofar as your repeated argument that he doesn't have enough passing attempts to qualify for a QB rating, that's funny, since, on his player page, his rating is clearly 87.9.
Yes, in exactly the same sense that on Ronnie Brown's player page (http://www.nfl.com/player/ronniebrown/2506341/careerstats), his career passer rating is clearly 91.3.  The NFL's player pages show your passer rating with no minimum qualifiers.

In any case, I never said he didn't qualify for a passer rating; you can calculate a passer rating on one attempt.  I said he didn't meet the minimum qualifiers for the NFL's passing statistics page, and he doesn't.

Quote
While you're wrappng your head around that, keep in mind that part of the reason he's not in the NFL "total" list is because he doesn't pass frequently.
Um, yes.  That's the entire point: he's a quarterback that doesn't pass frequently, which is why you see people criticizing him.

Quote
The other part is that he's only played in 7 games+ one quarter.  If he played the entire season- even with his limited attempts- he would qualify.
If number of games played is the issue, please explain why Moore is on the page and Tebow is not.

Quote
For the record, 87.9 puts him at about #10 overall.
Well, yes, when you eliminate minimum qualifiers, lots of people get on the list.  Chase Daniel has a passer rating of 104.3, good for 4th in the league.  Shaun Hill has a rating of 103.5.  Hell, Ray Rice has a rating of 118.7.

Minimum qualifiers are there for a reason.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 05, 2011, 02:47:12 pm
Spider, you go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe. I have stated repeatedly throughout this thread- seriously like a half dozen times- that I don't think he's elite or great, but that I think he is a winner and every single one of my posts is only to affirm that, and that no, he doesn't suck, and no, he's not garbage. I actually said- perhaps you missed it or you just want to hear yourself talk- that he is "at about #10 overall. That's about where, IMO, he stands." Why did I mention that there are 30 other QBs who would love his record? Because my point is about winning. That's it. Not how often he throws, not how ugly his motion is. Keep tearing the guy down if you want. I honestly don't care; he's not a friend, relative, or acquaintance. It just seems a little assanine to keep insisiting that week after week after week, when he has brought back his team to victory, what four or five times now, tha he sucks. His defense isn't what is throwing the ball, ugly as it may be. His defense isn't what is running 2pt point conversions in to tie or win games, when everybody in the entire stadium knows what's coming and still can't stop it. In fact, his defense gave up 30+ points this week, and he STILL led a comeback. If it was any other QB in the world, the haters would not say anything, but instead, they say, "Oh, he hasn't beaten anyone good," until he beat the Jets. Then, "Oh, it's because of the running game," until McGahee has 35 COMBINED YARDS in two games which he wins both of, and then, oh good grief, then it's "Oh, the defense carries him," and he wins when they give up 32 points. So, while everyone keeps hating on the guy, I'm pointing out that maybe- just maybe- he doesn't suck as much you all think he does. Food for thought. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Frimp on December 05, 2011, 03:09:09 pm
Tim Tebow saves a birthday party
http://pntrn.blogspot.com/2011/12/tim-tebow-saves-day.html


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 05, 2011, 03:16:40 pm
So Frimp,   Is PNTRN your latest website? 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Frimp on December 05, 2011, 03:21:33 pm
Yeah, its one of them. I just wrote that.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: shamrock on December 05, 2011, 03:27:06 pm
It used to be that pro athletes that were all tatted up,with selfish attitudes,and police records were looked at as abnormal.
Along comes a guy with a squeaky clean image,that lives a clean lifestyle and he is looked at as strange.Funny how our society has changed.
Tim Tebow is loved or hated because of his outspoken Christian views.period.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Frimp on December 05, 2011, 03:37:59 pm
It used to be that pro athletes that were all tatted up,with selfish attitudes,and police records were looked at as abnormal.
Along comes a guy with a squeaky clean image,that lives a clean lifestyle and he is looked at as strange.Funny how our society has changed.
Tim Tebow is loved or hated because of his outspoken Christian views.period.

I don't think anyone really hates him. I think its more of the media's attitude that he is the second coming of Joe Montana when his team mates are just as responsible for the win as he is. Yet you don't hear about that.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 05, 2011, 03:44:28 pm
Tebow is loved or hated because of his outspoken Christian views.period.

I couldn't give a rats ass about Tebow's religious views, just like I've never cared about Kurt Warner's. I quite liked Warner, though... Really good quarterback provided you could keep him from getting hit. Oddly enough, just about the opposite of Tebow...

Tebow is a bad quarterback. Even his running skills don't get him near 'average'. That said, he's very entertaining and he just might get enough time to develop his passing game sufficiently to stay a starter.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on December 05, 2011, 03:47:44 pm
I don't think anyone really hates him. I think its more of the media's attitude that he is the second coming of Joe Montana when his team mates are just as responsible for the win as he is. Yet you don't hear about that.

I'm sure there's people in a bunch of different camps as to why they hate him. I know people in my office just hate the guy for a few reasons:
1) He does get a bit preachy at times (I don't know if they just hate religion or what he says)
2) He isn't a traditional quarterback and;
3) He gets all of this praise even though he isn't a good quarterback

That's not my views, but what I have picked up on my office.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 05, 2011, 05:44:05 pm
It just seems a little assanine to keep insisiting that week after week after week, when he has brought back his team to victory, what four or five times now, tha he sucks.
I'm sure you feel the same way about Mark Sanchez and his record-setting 4 road playoff victories, right?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 05, 2011, 05:51:22 pm
It used to be that pro athletes that were all tatted up,with selfish attitudes,and police records were looked at as abnormal.
Along comes a guy with a squeaky clean image,that lives a clean lifestyle and he is looked at as strange.Funny how our society has changed.
Tim Tebow is loved or hated because of his outspoken Christian views.period.

Really, it could be just as easily said he is only loved because of his Christian views. For all of you who claim we hate him because of religion, I challenge you to find such a reference. All I have seen is actual football reasoning why this guy is not a great QB and the singular reason for the Broncos turn around.
On the other hand I can show you a bunch of people who are cheering for him solely because is so open about his religion.
So you can take your "Christians are persecuted" theory and move on with it.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 05, 2011, 06:35:08 pm
I was uncomfortable about his outward religiousness in college (when I was a fan of the team he played on), because I felt that it was unprofessional to have bible versus on a uniform that represents a group of many different people with different views.  I don't feel that a football field is the appropriate forum to make religious statements, Christian, Jewish, Atheist, or otherwise. 

In the Pros, however, he's not done that.  Whatever he does in his private time towards helping people in the name of God, I'm totally cool with.  Good for him.

My qualms with him in the pros are solely gameplay-based.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 05, 2011, 07:14:07 pm
I'm sure you feel the same way about Mark Sanchez and his record-setting 4 road playoff victories, right?

ha, good one!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: shamrock on December 05, 2011, 11:31:51 pm
Really, it could be just as easily said he is only loved because of his Christian views. For all of you who claim we hate him because of religion, I challenge you to find such a reference. All I have seen is actual football reasoning why this guy is not a great QB and the singular reason for the Broncos turn around.
On the other hand I can show you a bunch of people who are cheering for him solely because is so open about his religion.
So you can take your "Christians are persecuted" theory and move on with it.
I stated the reason he is LOVED or hated is because of his outspoken views.Nowhere did I state I believed he was "persecuted" for his beliefs.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 06, 2011, 04:23:09 am
I stated the reason he is LOVED or hated is because of his outspoken views.Nowhere did I state I believed he was "persecuted" for his beliefs.

And I and others have repeatedly made statements about him because of his play( or lack there in) on the field. This turn around is not because of just him. Yet the hype surrounding him since leaving college has been about his "character" and "faith". His proponents have nothing to go on to prove he is the one fundamental difference in the Bronco's turn around except religion.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 06, 2011, 06:49:55 am
ha, good one!


Yeah, and I follow YOU around looking for places to jab. Hypocrite much?

And Spider-Dan- if Sanchez had won all four of those in ONE season, then yes I probably would feel about the same way. It's not like I'm cherry picking Tebow wins over a span of three years or more. He's won 6 out of 7 games this season. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 06, 2011, 07:21:18 am
He's won 6 out of 7 games this season. -EK

The Packers' D has won 12 of 12.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 06, 2011, 08:08:27 am
The Packers' D has won 12 of 12.

Really? That's what you're going with? Yeah, Rodgers had NOTHING to do with that. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 06, 2011, 08:30:36 am
Yeah, Rodgers had NOTHING to do with that. -EK

EXACTLY my point. Thanks for making it for me.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on December 06, 2011, 08:32:32 am
Just curious ... isn't it still the concensus that QBs get too much credit for winning just as they get too much blame for losing?  


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 06, 2011, 08:58:05 am
EXACTLY my point. Thanks for making it for me.

WHAT was your point? You showed that the D and Rodgers BOTh helped GB get to 12-0. That's the exact same thing I've been saying- the D, running game, AND Tebow helped turn around Denver. Not Tebow alone, but also not without him. Your "point" doesn't make any sense to me. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 06, 2011, 09:04:56 am
WHAT was your point? You showed that the D and Rodgers BOTh helped GB get to 12-0. That's the exact same thing I've been saying- the D, running game, AND Tebow helped turn around Denver. Not Tebow alone, but also not without him. Your "point" doesn't make any sense to me. -EK

Green Bay's D has been pretty bad. Have they made any good plays? Sure they have, but it's the offense that deserves the VAST majority of the credit.

Tim Tebow has been pretty bad. Has he made any good plays? Sure he has, but it's the defense that deserves the VAST majority of the credit.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 06, 2011, 09:07:07 am
I have no problem with that AT ALL. My issue is with all the people saying that Denver wins "in spite of" play by Tebow, or that he still sucks, is garbage, etc. I completely agree with what you're saying. But it's ridiculous to say that it's ONLY been the running game when in two of those wins the running game was non-existant, or that it's ONLY been the defense when the D has still been giving up 3 TD's a game during the stretch (or even ~18 points per game if you take out the blow out loss to Detroit- 18 ppg is not quite as "dominant" as people want to make it sound- they're still ranked near the bottom in most defensive categories for the year). Without the D, the team would probably be 2-5 or worse during the stretch. I have no problem admitting that. Without Tebow, the absolute fact- what was played on the field- the team was 1-4. How can anyone overlook that and blow it off as just coincidence? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 07, 2011, 03:13:11 am
I have no problem with that AT ALL. My issue is with all the people saying that Denver wins "in spite of" play by Tebow, or that he still sucks, is garbage, etc. I completely agree with what you're saying. But it's ridiculous to say that it's ONLY been the running game when in two of those wins the running game was non-existant, or that it's ONLY been the defense when the D has still been giving up 3 TD's a game during the stretch (or even ~18 points per game if you take out the blow out loss to Detroit- 18 ppg is not quite as "dominant" as people want to make it sound- they're still ranked near the bottom in most defensive categories for the year). Without the D, the team would probably be 2-5 or worse during the stretch. I have no problem admitting that. Without Tebow, the absolute fact- what was played on the field- the team was 1-4. How can anyone overlook that and blow it off as just coincidence? -EK

Because people are giving Tebow all the credit. Sure they gave up 18ppg, but they left the Broncos close enough in the 4th quarter to allow the offense to win. How come the kool aid drinkers keep overlooking that?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on December 07, 2011, 09:55:06 am
The coolest thing about Tebow is he keeps moving the curve. People have not changed their opinion of him but they keep changing the bar they have set.

1) He'll never get drafted as a QB.
2) He'll never start in the NFL as a QB
3) He will never win games in the NFL
4) He will never be a pro bowl QB
5) He will never win a Super Bowl

I wrote this in another thread but it probably should have been in here.  I highlight this because of what Tom Jackson said Sunday night on ESPN reminded me of this. He had said that if a team scored more than 24 points (or something like that) against Denver that Tebow wouldn't be able to deliver.  He then had to eat those words because he said Tebow proved him wrong. He's been a big critic all along.

You won't hear me say Tebow is the greatest QB. I will say regardless of what happens even beyond this point that he is a great man for getting here. There aren't very many people who could have done what he has done with what he has had to deal with on a regular basis.  I can't think of any one individual who has had as many people wanting him to fail both on and off the field and yet he continues to deliver. The saddest part is he has done nothing to warrant all of the negativitiy.  If that doesn't give you a "Jesus" type of irony then you aren't paying attention.

This won't mean anything to non-believers (other than I'm a fruit cake) so bare with me as I get all Jesus Freak ... I found it comforting that Dansby alluded to the "anointing" Tebow has on Jim Rome's show.  I also know that in God's own way He has used Tebow to remind many that He is much bigger than all of us. I know I found myself renewing if only because of seeing how much Tebow has endured and still prospered beyond his self. I think Dansby and others are seeing it as well and returning to His presence. I and many others are better off today because of Tim Tebow's obedience to God and that is something no one outside of God's own can understand. Obviously this has nothing to do with winning football games.

"Us losing to Tim Tebow the way we did, we seen it first hand,” Dansby said on Rome’s radio show.  “Young man is blessed.  Young man has a special anointing on him.  And for God to show himself in that game the way He did, through the guy He did it through, it opened a lot of guys’ eyes on our team.  And it brought a lot of guys closer to God, so like I said, everything happens for a reason. . . .  My hat goes off to Tim.  And God working through him like that, it opened up a lot of eyes.  He’s a blessed young man and I wish him much success the rest of his career.”




Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 07, 2011, 11:05:40 am
I completely agree and do not think you're a fruit cake at all. Regarding his beliefs and the fact that somehow, some people are threatened by him proffessing his love for God, he recently said on ESPN's "First Take," that if the most important being in your life is your wife, you don't just say you love her on your wedding day and never mention it again. You say it to her and everyone else every day. He feels the same about God. How can anyone find fault with that? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 07, 2011, 11:49:58 am
Regarding his beliefs and the fact that somehow, some people are threatened by him proffessing his love for God, he recently said on ESPN's "First Take," that if the most important being in your life is your wife, you don't just say you love her on your wedding day and never mention it again. You say it to her and everyone else every day.
And there's your problem.  Nobody else wants to hear about how much you love your wife, or your children... or your god.  Tell them how much you love them, not us.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on December 07, 2011, 12:00:25 pm
And there's your problem.  Nobody else wants to hear about how much you love your wife, or your children... or your god.  Tell them how much you love them, not us.

That's true. I mean, you can mention it in very few scenarios, but no one cares to hear how much you love your family. It should be assumed that you love them. No one likes being told stuff they already know.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 07, 2011, 12:06:11 pm
You won't hear me say Tebow is the greatest QB. I will say regardless of what happens even beyond this point that he is a great man for getting here. There aren't very many people who could have done what he has done with what he has had to deal with on a regular basis.  I can't think of any one individual who has had as many people wanting him to fail both on and off the field and yet he continues to deliver. The saddest part is he has done nothing to warrant all of the negativitiy.
I can tell you why Tebow rubs me the wrong way.  As I see it, he has gotten an unfair advantage based on off-the-field concerns.

There are plenty of great option-style running QBs that never got a shot to play QB in the NFL; look at someone like Eric Crouch, for example.  This is normally the way things work.  But because of Tebow's wholesome god-fearing image, not only was he drafted ridiculously high, but you had the public and the media clamoring for him to get a chance.  And Fox was basically forced to start Tebow over Quinn, even though Quinn had performed well enough to be designated second-string.

He shouldn't even have had the opportunity to start for DEN, for all the same reasons Crouch never had an opportunity to start at QB in the NFL.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 07, 2011, 07:52:36 pm
I can tell you why Tebow rubs me the wrong way.  As I see it, he has gotten an unfair advantage based on off-the-field concerns.

There are plenty of great option-style running QBs that never got a shot to play QB in the NFL; look at someone like Eric Crouch, for example.  This is normally the way things work.  But because of Tebow's wholesome god-fearing image, not only was he drafted ridiculously high, but you had the public and the media clamoring for him to get a chance.  And Fox was basically forced to start Tebow over Quinn, even though Quinn had performed well enough to be designated second-string.

He shouldn't even have had the opportunity to start for DEN, for all the same reasons Crouch never had an opportunity to start at QB in the NFL.


I am glad you brought up Crouch. The blatant hypocrisy between the two of them is amazing. I guess Crouch should have adopted a in-your-face Christian method and he would have made it too.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on December 08, 2011, 03:36:09 am

I am glad you brought up Crouch. The blatant hypocrisy between the two of them is amazing. I guess Crouch should have adopted a in-your-face Christian method and he would have made it too.
First off I disagree that he is in your face about anything. It's no different than athletes giving props to their homies or even speaking in third person about themselves in every conversation. It's what they do but everyone accepts it because no one cares as long as they perform.

Secondly I'm curious how his "method" forced Fox into giving him a chance. So by using this method players can force coaches to do what they do not want to do? Is that kind of like "The Secret" . Maybe we should notify Oprah.

Lastly Crouch has gotten his chance in the CFL and has yet to do anything. This should support St. Louis  reasoning for not allowing him to play QB just as Matt Jones in Jacksonville. it happens.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 03:58:06 am
First off I disagree that he is in your face about anything. It's no different than athletes giving props to their homies or even speaking in third person about themselves in every conversation. It's what they do but everyone accepts it because no one cares as long as they perform.
How does that indicate that he's not "in your face"?  It just means that he's being "in your face" about his religion, instead of his own skills or what have you.  And the public has a lot more tolerance for a player touting themselves than touting their religious beliefs (or, for that matter, their relationship with their wife; see Doug Christie for a good example of the latter).

Quote
Secondly I'm curious how his "method" forced Fox into giving him a chance. So by using this method players can force coaches to do what they do not want to do?
An extreme amount of public and media pressure has been put on Fox to give Tebow a chance.  I doubt this was by Tebow's design, but it is what it is.

Quote
Lastly Crouch has gotten his chance in the CFL and has yet to do anything.
That's because he's been perpetually injured, possibly because he had 4 1/2 years between his last QB start in college and his first action at QB in the CFL.  This is to say nothing of the significant rule differences between American football and Canadian football.

The point is not whether or not Crouch would have been a successful NFL quarterback.  The point is that he never even got a chance.  But for some reason, Tebow did.  The difference is clear: Tebow's off-the-field behavior created a significant public outcry for him to get an opportunity to play QB in the NFL, while Crouch did not enjoy such a luxury.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 08, 2011, 07:28:33 am
Tebow's off-the-field behavior created a significant public outcry for him to get an opportunity to play QB in the NFL,

Oh, now I get it. His off the field behavior. As opposed to a guy who shoots himself in the foot, runs a dog-fighting ring, kills a pedestrian via DUI, has 6 pounds of pot found in his house, is accused of raping a 16 year old in a bathroom. I didn't realize that Tebow's off the field behavior should preclude him from being an NFL starter, since it didn't preclude any of those guys. I can tell you this- how many parents had to sit their kids down and explain all of those other guys behaviors when they were role models? Somehow I don't see that happening with Tim. If that bothers you, or if him announcing his beliefs bothers you, that's a YOU problem, not a Tebow problem. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on December 08, 2011, 08:53:31 am
Tebow's off-the-field behavior created a significant public outcry for him to get an opportunity to play QB in the NFL, while Crouch did not enjoy such a luxury.

I think I'll have to disagree with that. His past successes in college football probably created the huge public desire to see him play. If he sucked and was a good Christian, I don't think people would have wanted him over Brady Quinn.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on December 08, 2011, 08:58:45 am
I think I'll have to disagree with that. His past successes in college football probably created the huge public desire to see him play. If he sucked and was a good Christian, I don't think people would have wanted him over Brady Quinn.

And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on December 08, 2011, 09:14:22 am
And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.
Are you saying Eric Crouch came with the same fanfare as Tebow? I don't think you are but did want to clarify. 

Right or wrong Tebow has been argued to be the best college player ever. That's "ever" and not just over a year. I'm not saying he is the best ever but he has been in those conversations with some of the best football minds in the country. That alone puts him way ahead of 99% of any other college athlete who was very good. That alone puts him in a completely separate class than Crouch.

Take away his religion and you still have a good looking, all-american, well spoken, accomplished role model. that isn't easy to find and people will support that. In fact I'd say many people are desperate to find that. Now add in the people who follow him just because he is a Christian and you get what you have now.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on December 08, 2011, 09:26:31 am
And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.

I don't even know who Eric Crouch is. Did he have the following that Tebow did all across the nation? I'm asking, I don't know.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 08, 2011, 09:29:57 am
And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.

Seriously? There is NO comparison between Crouch and Tebow's NCAA career. Not a knock on Crouch, but he was not in the same league as Tebow in college.
Crouch:
2001 Heisman Trophy
2001 Davey O'Brien Award
2001 Walter Camp Award
2001 Big 12 Conference offensive player of the year
2000 Fiesta Bowl Offensive MVP vs. Tennessee
One of three quarterbacks in Division 1-A history to rush for 3,000 and pass for 4,000 yards in a career
13th player in NCAA to rush and pass for 1,000 in a season (1,115 rushing, 1,510 passing)
Nebraska career total offense leader with 7,915 yards
Tebow:
2007 season
Davey O'Brien Award winner
Heisman Trophy winner
Maxwell Award winner
Sporting News Player of the Year
Harley Award winner
NCAA QB of the Year
Rivals.com National Offensive Player of the Year
Associated Press Player of the Year
First-team All-American by: Associated Press, Football Writers Association of America, Walter Camp Football Foundation, Sporting News, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, CBS Sports, College Football News, Rivals.com, and Scout.com
2008 season
First-team All-America by College Football News.
Manning Award winner
Maxwell Award winner
2008 SEC Championship Game Most Valuable Player
Wuerffel Trophy winner
2009 season
Southeastern Conference Offensive Player of the Year
Sugar Bowl Most Outstanding Player
Sports Illustrated College football Player of the Decade

Only player in NCAA history to pass and rush for 20 TD’s each in one season.

The guy was named "Player of the Decade." Crouch was a good player, and a Heisman winner, Tebow's name has come up in discussions of the "greatest college player of all time"- and people still believe he shouldn't play in the NFL. Crouch wasn't even the best player in his school's history. You can't make that comparison. It's ridiculous. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 11:09:51 am
Oh, now I get it. His off the field behavior. As opposed to a guy who shoots himself in the foot, runs a dog-fighting ring, kills a pedestrian via DUI, has 6 pounds of pot found in his house, is accused of raping a 16 year old in a bathroom. I didn't realize that Tebow's off the field behavior should preclude him from being an NFL starter, since it didn't preclude any of those guys.
You've got it exactly backwards.

Those guys, who had negative off-the-field issues, got to play anyway because of football ability.  There was no public outcry to let Plaxico Burress or Michael Vick play; they beat out their competition and earned a starting spot with their play, fair and square.

In total contrast, Tebow (who was a 3rd-stringer based on his play) got an opportunity to start because he is such a nice guy and outwardly devout Christian.  These are not football attributes.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 11:18:59 am
I think I'll have to disagree with that. His past successes in college football probably created the huge public desire to see him play. If he sucked and was a good Christian, I don't think people would have wanted him over Brady Quinn.
I don't remember Jason White or Ken Dorsey having a media typhoon over whether or not they would have a chance to start.

Tebow is one of many college-style QBs with a great college career.  He is, significantly, one of the most outspoken and visible athletes when it comes to his religion.  Seems to me that that is the main difference.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 11:20:35 am
Right or wrong Tebow has been argued to be the best college player ever. That's "ever" and not just over a year. I'm not saying he is the best ever but he has been in those conversations with some of the best football minds in the country. That alone puts him way ahead of 99% of any other college athlete who was very good. That alone puts him in a completely separate class than Crouch.
As a college player, maybe.  But there are plenty of great college QB (especially QBs) that are immediately dismissed at the NFL level.

Quote
Take away his religion and you still have a good looking, all-american, well spoken, accomplished role model.
Just like Jason White or Eric Crouch.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on December 08, 2011, 11:26:50 am
I don't remember Jason White or Ken Dorsey having a media typhoon over whether or not they would have a chance to start.

I don't follow college ball as you guys do, so these names don't mean anything to me. Maybe that is good evidence to support my claim that Tebow has such a huge following that people want to see him play. I'm not a college football fan, a Christian, nor a UF fan; heck, I hardly ever watched Tebow play. Even I wanted to see what the guy would do because it did have such great success in college and because of all of the detractors saying he wouldn't amount to anything. He may still not amount to anything, but when you're team is 1-4 (or whatever Orton left it at), you want change, and so there was an outcry for a legendary college QB to play. I don't think religion has anything to do with it for the majority of people, as I'm sure there are a few people who want him to play just because of his religion.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 08, 2011, 01:26:00 pm
You've got it exactly backwards.

Those guys, who had negative off-the-field issues, got to play anyway because of football ability.  There was no public outcry to let Plaxico Burress or Michael Vick play; they beat out their competition and earned a starting spot with their play, fair and square.

In total contrast, Tebow (who was a 3rd-stringer based on his play) got an opportunity to start because he is such a nice guy and outwardly devout Christian.  These are not football attributes.

You missed my point so badly you actually just proved it. I realize that he gained a spot more for his clean cut wholesomeness than his play. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, I AGREE with it. I'd rather have my kids watching him than any of those other guys. There IS actually a world outside of football, and no matter how much you keep bitching about him, the team was 1-4 before he started and is 6-1 since. That's enough to earn his spot. He also wasn't a third-string QB. The Broncos official depth chart to start the season was Tebow at 2 and Quinn at 3. Why do you suppose Tebow was brought in to finish the Chargers game? Stop with the number three stuff. It's incorrect. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 02:41:38 pm
There IS actually a world outside of football, and no matter how much you keep bitching about him, the team was 1-4 before he started and is 6-1 since. That's enough to earn his spot.
So he earned his chance to start... with his record after starting?  That's circular logic.  Why was he given the start over Quinn in the first place?

Furthermore, every time you talk about what a great role model he is, you simply reinforce why people dislike Tebow: he is given football priority for non-football reasons.  If I wanted to see a league full of outstanding citizens, I'd go watch a charity benefit.

Quote
He also wasn't a third-string QB. The Broncos official depth chart to start the season was Tebow at 2 and Quinn at 3.
Um, no, it was not.

The last official depth chart with a clearly delineated #2 and #3 was Quinn at 2, Tebow at 3.  Tebow was demoted to third-string during the preseason (http://www.footballnewsnow.com/2011/tim-tebow-drops-to-third-string-for-denver-broncos/) and Quinn maintained that position for the rest of the preseason.  Quinn played the entire first half (http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18808110?source=bb) of DEN's final preseason game.

After the season started, Fox tried to avoid the controversy (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/09/14/officially-tebow-is-neither-third-string-nor-second-string/) by listing the second-string QB as "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow."  If that's not an example of pandering, I don't know what is.

So, officially, the last depth chart position that Tebow had "sole possession" of (before being named the starter) was third-stringer, prior to management making a mockery of the concept of a depth chart.  He went from third-string to I-don't-know-string to starter.  How often does that happen?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 08, 2011, 03:05:02 pm
Are you arguing now just to hear yourself speak? You're completely wrong. How else do you want to hear it? He earned his spot to start by virtue of the fact that the depth chart- no matter what you want to believe- had both he and Quinn as number two. It literally read, "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow." Not whatever you think you saw. Here's a link- go argue with the Broncos, not me. This was posted Sept. 6th; so unless they sent out another roster in the next six days before the season started, you're wrong. http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-broncos/2011/9/6/2407710/tim-tebow-brady-quinn-denver-broncos-quarterback-backups
Here's another, just so you don't think I cherry-picked. It's from the day after the opener, and notes, "Who do you think should be the Broncos' starting quarterback: Orton, Tebow or forgotten man Brady Quinn, the former Cleveland Brown who is listed with Tebow as the No. 2 QB on Denver's depth chart?" No, I guess they didn't change it, and Tebow started the season at number two. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/09/should-tim-tebow-be-the-denver-broncos-starting-qb-poll.html

Apparently it's not as big an issue as you think it is, either, because later Quinn and Orton were in the same boat: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/nfl/broncos/broncos-list-kyle-orton-brady-quinn-co-no-2-quarterbacks

Next point- he earned his spot by being number two; he kept it by the 6-1 record. That doesn't need further explanation.

Both CF and I pointed out that Tebow also earned the right to play in the NFL based on his stellar college career, which somehow you twisted into a comparison to Crouch. Pointing out that there are plenty of college QB's who are dismissed is a totally valid point on your part. Trying to point out that someone considered one of the greatest college players at any position all-time, should be dismissed is laughable. Just stop. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 03:25:10 pm
It would help if you actually read my posts before replying, as I already addressed the "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow" debacle.  The last depth chart position that Tebow had sole possession of was third-string.  This is fact.  Having two second-string QBs is as nonsensical as having two QBs listed as starters; it was pandering, no more and no less.

As for Tebow earning the right to play based on his college career, the entire point of mentioning Eric Crouch, Jason White, etc. is that your college career does not entitle you to a damn thing in the NFL.  Crouch and White were great college QBs; certainly better than Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, or Aaron Rodgers.   Obviously, that meant nothing when it came to getting a chance to play QB in the NFL.  But for Tebow, things are different.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 08, 2011, 03:32:40 pm
It would help if you actually read my posts before replying, as I already addressed the "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow" debacle.  The last depth chart position that Tebow had sole possession of was third-string.  This is fact.  Having two second-string QBs is as nonsensical as having two QBs listed as starters; it was pandering, no more and no less.

As for Tebow earning the right to play based on his college career, the entire point of mentioning Eric Crouch, Jason White, etc. is that your college career does not entitle you to a damn thing in the NFL.  Crouch and White were great college QBs; certainly better than Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, or Aaron Rodgers.   Obviously, that meant nothing when it came to getting a chance to play QB in the NFL.  But for Tebow, things are different.

It doesn't entitle you to a damn thing? DUMBEST statement EVER. It entitled him to be drafted in the first round, which carries an expectation of starting at some point. Love to hear your rebuttal on that. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 03:42:52 pm
What, precisely, did a great college career entitle Eric Crouch to?  His college career was indisputably better than Rodgers, Rivers, Sanchez, or a host of other first-round draftees.  How about Josh Heupel?  He also had a great college career.  What was he entitled to?

Gino Torretta was an amazing college QB (he is in the College Football Hall of Fame).  For all his college achievement, he got to play in exactly one regular-season NFL game (three years after being drafted in the 7th round) and immediately threw a game-winning 32-yard TD pass.  Then he sat on the bench for another year before retiring.  What was he entitled to?

The primary difference between Tebow and all of the other great college QBs I named is not that they weren't good enough in college; many worse college QBs were handed starting jobs in the NFL.  The difference is that while all of those great college QBs (including Tebow) were declared unfit for pro-style football, only Tebow had an army of supporters clamoring for him to play.  And it's not like Crouch, White, Heupel, Torretta, etc. were immoral thugs, either.

No, the difference is that Tebow has an army of supporters that backs him primarily because of his outspoken religious views.  And that's a crappy way to determine which players get an opportunity to play and which don't.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 08, 2011, 03:51:16 pm
NONE of those had better college careers than Tebow. Don't change the argument. Tebow is starting, in part, because of the fact that despite his horrendous delivery and limited "NFL-style" offense, his college achievements were enough for the Broncos to gamble on him. You keep saying how much he sucks and how his college career has nothing to do with his pro career, but that's hogwash. His college career- the things he accomplished in the NCAA- are what led him to be drafted (high) and led him to start. If he hadn't accomplished what he did at Florida, he wouldn't be where he is currently. The fact that he had a better college career than any of the guys you mentioned is only further evidence that he should be given a chance to start. How come all of your arguments seem to prove my points?? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 04:08:14 pm
EKnight, if your argument is that your success in college earns you a right to play in the NFL, please explain why Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert are first-year starters but Gino Torretta and Major Harris (two College Football Hall of Famers) never got a chance to start at all.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 08, 2011, 04:21:01 pm
EKnight, if your argument is that your success in college earns you a right to play in the NFL, please explain why Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert are first-year starters but Gino Torretta and Major Harris (two College Football Hall of Famers) never got a chance to start at all.


Are you incapable of reading? How many times do I have to state this? We're not talking about an average college player, or even a Hall of Fame player. Tebow is considered with the greatest of all time college players. That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of literally hundreds of media writers. Just to be in that discussion puts him at a level above ANYONE you are going to mention. Keep Googling names if it makes you feel better, but you're flat wrong here. Being an average, good, or even outstanding college player doesn't guarantee you anything in the NFL. I'm not disputing that- I never did. Being one of the greatest college football players ever does. It's nonsense to say otherwise.

"No, the difference is that Tebow has an army of supporters that backs him primarily because of his outspoken religious views.  And that's a crappy way to determine which players get an opportunity to play and which don't."

This makes no sense. Players are constantly overlooked in the draft and not given as many opportunities on the field for negative behavior, so why shouldn't the opposite apply? If Vick had to ride the pine before he got a chance to play because of his off the field garbage, why shouldn't Tebow get an opportunity for his off the field positive influences? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 05:14:35 pm
Are you incapable of reading? How many times do I have to state this? We're not talking about an average college player, or even a Hall of Fame player. Tebow is considered with the greatest of all time college players.
For every media personality you can find that said Tebow is the greatest college player ever, I can find at least one that said that he has no business playing QB in the NFL.  Which seems kind of relevant to the discussion.

Quote
Being an average, good, or even outstanding college player doesn't guarantee you anything in the NFL. I'm not disputing that- I never did. Being one of the greatest college football players ever does. It's nonsense to say otherwise.
I think being a Hall of Famer qualifies you as one of the greatest ever.

It's amazing to me that you have somehow invented this new standard just to justify Tebow; a standard where merely being a College Football Hall of Fame-level player (merely!) means you deserve no special consideration, but once you reach some arbitrary super-HOF level, now you are entitled to a shot as a starter.

But rather than argue against the absurdity of the standard you have invented exclusively for Tim Tebow, I'll run with it.  As you already implied, Google makes this easy:

Tommie Frazier.

He's certainly in the debate for greatest college QB ever (he finished 13 slots above Tebow in this list (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/888607-the-50-greatest-college-football-players-of-all-time)), yet he went undrafted and never played a down in the NFL.  Surely, by your logic, such a legendary player and accomplished winner should have been entitled to a starting job in the NFL, just like Tebow, right?

Quote
Players are constantly overlooked in the draft and not given as many opportunities on the field for negative behavior, so why shouldn't the opposite apply?
Are you serious?

You honestly cannot see a difference between penalizing a player for poor conduct and promoting a player whose play has not merited such a change?  Do you think depth charts should be determined by who contributes most to the community?  Surely you are joking.

Did Brady Quinn mug an old lady?  Did he get busted trading meth for gay sex?  Why should Tebow leap him in the depth chart when Quinn was playing better?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 08, 2011, 05:30:57 pm
You really think that Tebow is playing because of his religion and not because in the opinion of the Denver coaching staff and GM gives the Denver the best chance to win games as opposed to Quinn/Orton (now released)?

Tebow is the starting QB for one reason and one reason alone.  In the opinion of John Fox and company Tebow give the Broncos the best chance to win game on Sunday. 

Based on the improved record of Denver since the change of QB's midseason, strongly suggests that that opinion is accurate. 

That doesn't mean Tebow is as good as Brady (Tom) but it does mean that in the opinion of the Broncos he is better than Brady (Quinn). 

Is Tebow a pro-bowl level QB?  Certainly not yet.  But he is good enough QB to start for the Broncos and is better than plenty of other QBs including Henne and Moore. 

Tebow's off the field behavior did not get him the job, just like Vick's didn't prevent him from getting a job in Philly. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 05:52:30 pm
You really think that Tebow is playing because of his religion and not because in the opinion of the Denver coaching staff and GM gives the Denver the best chance to win games as opposed to Quinn/Orton (now released)?
Not quite.  He's playing now because DEN has racked up some wins with him at QB, obviously.

I'm saying that the reason he even got a chance to start was because of the media circus surrounding him; a circus that was notably absent from many other great college football QBs that were also lacking pro-style skillsets.  And that media circus exists because Tebow is loud and proud about his religious beliefs.

The most ironic part of the whole scenario is that talking about Jesus effectively got Tebow a starting job that he otherwise wouldn't have had.  Divine providence?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 08, 2011, 05:56:23 pm
Not quite.  He's playing now because DEN has racked up some wins with him at QB, obviously.

I'm saying that the reason he even got a chance to start was because of the media circus surrounding him; a circus that was notably absent from many other great college football QBs that were also lacking pro-style skillsets.  And that media circus exists because Tebow is loud and proud about his religious beliefs.

The most ironic part of the whole scenario is that talking about Jesus effectively got Tebow a starting job that he otherwise wouldn't have had.  Divine providence?

The reason why he got to start was Orten sucked and he showed promise in the Denver parctices.  Or are you saying he would not have been drafted or even signed as an UDFA absent his relgious beliefs?

He got a shot in the NFL because he was decent in college. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 08, 2011, 06:13:33 pm
The reason why he got to start was Orten sucked and he showed promise in the Denver parctices.
Everything I've seen said that Tebow was worse than Orton and Quinn at practice.  Here's one example. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/28/kyle-orton-outplays-tim-tebow-at-broncos-practice/)

Orton sucking explains his benching, but it doesn't explain Tebow leapfrogging a more experienced QB that's playing better in Quinn.  That's why I say Tebow owes his starting job to Jesus (which I'm sure he would agree with, if not for exactly the same reason).


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 09, 2011, 01:00:00 am
You really think that Tebow is playing because of his religion and not because in the opinion of the Denver coaching staff and GM gives the Denver the best chance to win games as opposed to Quinn/Orton (now released)?

Tebow is the starting QB for one reason and one reason alone.  In the opinion of John Fox and company Tebow give the Broncos the best chance to win game on Sunday. 

Based on the improved record of Denver since the change of QB's midseason, strongly suggests that that opinion is accurate. 

That doesn't mean Tebow is as good as Brady (Tom) but it does mean that in the opinion of the Broncos he is better than Brady (Quinn). 

Is Tebow a pro-bowl level QB?  Certainly not yet.  But he is good enough QB to start for the Broncos and is better than plenty of other QBs including Henne and Moore. 

Tebow's off the field behavior did not get him the job, just like Vick's didn't prevent him from getting a job in Philly. 


Once again with the false hype. The win streak is also in a large part to the improved play of the defense, especially against the weaker teams they have played. Now the Broncos get to face a Bears team gutted on offense by injuries, so I can see them winning even if the Bears defense keeps the Broncos bottles up.
Since their defeat against the lions, the Pats are going to be the only really challenging team they will face( unlike the much over-hyped Jets).


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 09, 2011, 01:04:47 am
I am just curious what would happen if there was a player so open in their devotion to another religion? Would there be such a positive up-welling of support for a player that got onto his knees and prayed to the East every time they had a good play?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on December 09, 2011, 02:12:31 am
My opinion on Tebow:

He was drafted high because he is considered one of, if not the greatest, college player of all time.

He got the chance to prove himself because he was drafted so high AND was a more recent high draft pick, even if he wasn't this regime's pick.  It's a "let's see what this guy can do because so much was invested in him" attitude.

He is the definition of a ball control offense.  That is stellar if you're defense is elite.  That is how Denver's defense has been lately. 

Lastly, Tebow is a motivator.  The guy is a natural leader.  He inspires his team.  Hell, he even inspired Dansby via the interview he had with Jim Rome, which yes, has to do with religion.

When he was at UF i was a big hater.  Now that he isn't there anymore, i could care less what he does.  In fact I find it hilarious that he upsets the haters AND that he makes people think he's really good.  He is definitely in the middle ground in the argument. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 09, 2011, 03:18:12 am
Where is all this "Tebow is the greatest college player of all time" stuff coming from?  Is this a Florida thing?  I can't find any national publication that puts Tebow in the Herschel Walker/Jim Thorpe/Red Grange range.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: shamrock on December 09, 2011, 04:47:21 am
Danny Wuerffel (Tebow's boyhood idol) had a stellar college career.He set nearly every collegiate passing record,won a national title,won the Heisman trophy,was a first round draft choice of the Saints,and was VERY outspoken on his Christian faith (maybe more than Tebow)and yet he had only a cup of coffee in the NFL.But he wasn't 6'3" and 240 lbs. and able to run over linemen like a tank,either.Tebow is starting in the NFL because of his size,athletic ability,and upside (someone in the Broncos orginization believes he can be taught to throw the ball better).
To quote NFL hall of famer Jack Youngblood,"He is a bigger,faster,more athletic version of Steve Young"


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on December 09, 2011, 09:03:37 am
Wuerfful wasn't a first round pick.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 09, 2011, 09:11:01 am
As you already implied, Google makes this easy:

Tommie Frazier.

He's certainly in the debate for greatest college QB ever (he finished 13 slots above Tebow in this list (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/888607-the-50-greatest-college-football-players-of-all-time)), yet he went undrafted and never played a down in the NFL.  Surely, by your logic, such a legendary player and accomplished winner should have been entitled to a starting job in the NFL, just like Tebow, right?
Are you serious?

You honestly cannot see a difference between penalizing a player for poor conduct and promoting a player whose play has not merited such a change?  Do you think depth charts should be determined by who contributes most to the community?  Surely you are joking.

Did Brady Quinn mug an old lady?  Did he get busted trading meth for gay sex?  Why should Tebow leap him in the depth chart when Quinn was playing better?

Your argument is a joke. Frazier wasn't in the NFL because he had a serious medical condtion. He suffered such severe blood-clotting that no team drafted him because of that. I also didn't find many lists that ranked him ahead of Tebow. This one has Tebow 5th and Frazier 63rd. http://www.americasbestonline.com/cfootball100.htm CBS and ESPN (you know, national media, not just from Florida) writers both have discussed him as the greatest college player ever, unlike the BleacherReport list you referenced that was written by God only knows who, since you don't need to be an actual sports writer to make a list there.

You keep saying Tebow leaped Quinn- when, in fact, he didn't. They were both listed at #2. BOTH of them. How is that leaping anyone??

Did Quinn mug an old lady? No, but he did mug the Browns franchise, posting a career QB rating of 66.8, with a 10-9 TD-INT ratio and a win-loss record of 3-9. Not exactly a stellar vote of confidence to start ahead of Tebow, even if he was #2, and Tebow was #3, WHICH THEY WERE NOT.

Oh...wait...wait- it was because Quinn played better in the preseason right?
Quinn- Preseason QB rating 69.1. 2 TD's, 2 INTs. 276 passing yards. 52% completion, including 4-12 for 26 yards in the one game he started. Tebow came in at halftime and went 7-11 for 166 yards and the only TD they scored in that gane.
Tebow:  108 QB rating, 1 TD, no INTs, 310 passing yards. 64.5% completion rate. Exactly HOW did Quinn look better in preseason??

Keep throwing stuff out there though. Shooting down your arguments is entertaining- especially about a player too medically unstable to even get drafted, and who tried to then play in the CFL, only to have to retire because of the condition that kept him out of the NFL.  -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 09, 2011, 10:53:28 am
Everything I've seen said that Tebow was worse than Orton and Quinn at practice.  Here's one example. (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/07/28/kyle-orton-outplays-tim-tebow-at-broncos-practice/)

Orton sucking explains his benching, but it doesn't explain Tebow leapfrogging a more experienced QB that's playing better in Quinn.  That's why I say Tebow owes his starting job to Jesus (which I'm sure he would agree with, if not for exactly the same reason).

That "example" is from July.  And Orton outplaying Tebow in July is why Orton started in Sept.  By October Tebow appeared in the opinion of the professionals who run the Broncos and who get to watch every practice, that Tebow was better -- that is why he started instead of Orton or Quinn. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 11, 2011, 05:40:06 pm
Halftime in Denver where the Bears are visiting...

Score is 0 - 0.
Tebow has completed 3 of 13 for 45 yards and an interception. Add another 4 rushes for 27 yards.

Has Tebow kept the Broncos in the game with a chance to win in the second half? Or has the rest of the team, defense especially this time, carried his sorry ass?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 11, 2011, 06:27:27 pm
If he wins, does it matter to anyone but the haters? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 11, 2011, 06:44:38 pm
I don't think it's fair to use one game as an indication.  (Just like I don't think it's fair to credit Tebow for those wins.)

But, I think you see a game where his numbers are comparable, like always, but everything isn't falling into place, like it has been.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 11, 2011, 07:03:11 pm
But, I think you see a game where his numbers are comparable, like always, but everything isn't falling into place, like it has been.

What do you mean? :-)

Overtime... It's exactly like 'it has been'.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 11, 2011, 07:04:44 pm
Tebow in the 4th qtr: 13-20 163 yards and a TD. Yeah...that's the D. IF they win- big IF- how do you NOT credit Tebow??? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 11, 2011, 07:05:13 pm
If he wins, does it matter to anyone but the haters? -EK

How about the realists?

The extreme Tebow fanboy-ism that's everywhere is a complete joke.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 11, 2011, 07:07:01 pm
Tebow in the 4th qtr: 13-20 163 yards and a TD. Yeah...that's the D. IF they win- big IF- how do you NOT credit Tebow??? -EK

I credit Tebow just as much for a small bit of good play in the fourth as I do for the 3 quarters of utter shit.

Look, Denver's D held Chicago to 10 points! NO ONE on offense deserves ANY credit for the game, regardless of who wins the toss-up that is overtime.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 11, 2011, 07:17:17 pm
I credit the guy who kicked a 59 yard field goal in crunch time. lol

And Marion Barber for being stupid! lol


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 11, 2011, 07:19:18 pm
Tebow in the 4th qtr: 13-20 163 yards and a TD. Yeah...that's the D. IF they win- big IF- how do you NOT credit Tebow??? -EK

They held the Bears to under 230yds offense in the whole game and racked up four sacks, giving the offense a chance to tie the game on a last second field goal.
The Broncos offense on the other hand ran almost 20 more plays than the Bears offense did, and racked up 100yds more the Bears did, yet it took another last second, 59yd field goal to make it to overtime.
But your right, it was only Tebow on the last drive that was the deciding factor and no one else all day long.
Hell the defense should not even play as Tebow can do it all.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 11, 2011, 07:23:27 pm
Do you guys just sit there cussing your TV at moments like this? I mean seriously? I'll bet you're all red in the face and huffing and puffing and throwing things. Envy isn't pretty. 7-1. And it isn't even climatictic anymore. It's like it's expected. Arguing his ability to be a winner and make his team better at this point is just keyboard masturbation. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 11, 2011, 07:25:39 pm
How about that forced fumble in OT? Yep all about Tebow.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 11, 2011, 07:29:51 pm
Do you guys just sit there cussing your TV at moments like this? I mean seriously? I'll bet you're all red in the face and huffing and puffing and throwing things. Envy isn't pretty. 7-1. And it isn't even climatictic anymore. It's like it's expected. Arguing his ability to be a winner and make his team better at this point is just keyboard masturbation. -EK

Actually I am just fine. The reason is that I have the intelligence and common sense to realize that the Broncos are winning as a team and it is more than just one guy who is making the difference.
I can look beyond the hype about character and religion to see a guy who is questionable at QB, and who is benefiting from a defense that allows the offense to win in the fourth quarter or overtime.
I also see a guy who is getting entirely too much credit for wins, when the credit goes to everyone, to include coaches for drawing up a game plan to play to their flawed QB's strengths.
Or you can just believe it is all because of devotion to Jesus.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 11, 2011, 07:34:21 pm
Actually I am just fine. The reason is that I have the intelligence and common sense to realize that the Broncos are winning as a team and it is more than just one guy who is making the difference.
I can look beyond the hype about character and religion to see a guy who is questionable at QB, and who is benefiting from a defense that allows the offense to win in the fourth quarter or overtime.
I also see a guy who is getting entirely too much credit for wins, when the credit goes to everyone, to include coaches for drawing up a game plan to play to their flawed QB's strengths.
Or you can just believe it is all because of devotion to Jesus.

I have been more pro-Tebow than most around here. I have given Tebow a lot of credit for the Jets win, the SD win, and last weeks Minny win. He gets a lot of credit for those wins.

But today I can't give him any credit. None. Zip. Nadda. Nill. When it takes a brain fart by Marion Barber to even give him a chance. Then when the FG kicker makes a 59 and 51 yard field goals to win the game. Sorry, today wasn't about Tebow. In past weeks, YES. Today, NO!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 11, 2011, 07:37:08 pm
It appears as if I spoke too soon.

But, my message remains the same (whether they win or lose), like I said.

You simply can't get very far playing well only in the last 7 minutes or so, with your D killing it.

57 yard FGs and 10 points allowed is the anomoly.  Over time, Tebow's play will not be enough.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 11, 2011, 07:39:52 pm
Arguing his ability to be a winner and make his team better at this point is just keyboard masturbation. -EK

But he ISN'T making his team better. Not better than having an actual league-average quarterback, anyway. Better than Losman? Yeah, probably ;)

He had a horrendous game. He couldn't move the ball with his feet (49 yards on 12 attempts). He FUMBLED and was INTERCEPTED. The highlight, compared to his normal level of play, a completion rate of 52.5% -- a full 5 points above his season average!

ROFL!

He f*cked up the O all afternoon. The D saved his (and the team's) bacon and kept them in it. After having dug a huge *ss hole through three quarters, Tebow finally managed some average quarterback play in the 4th and Denver snuck away with the win.

Go Tebow!

(And, no, I don't hate Tebow. Far from. I think he's incredibly entertaining to watch -- although a large part of it is due to the shear hysteria surrounding him).


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 11, 2011, 07:44:32 pm
About me:

I don't know if you believe this, but I'm not at home hating on Tebow.  I just call them like I see them.  So far, I still think as I did, that the Broncos are winning in spite of his poor play.  One or two drives per game isn't a long-term strategy at the QB position.  Whether it's next game or next year, he can't expect the same results if he doesn't play considerably, considerably better.

Still, I love to watch the guy, win or lose, and I'm a Gator fan, so it's nice to see Gators do well.  I am not letting any of that cloud my judgment, though.

I've been wrong before and changed my tune.  I used to say that Brady was a product of the system, but came around to eventually call him one of the best ever.  And I will gladly eat crow on Tebow if it comes to that.  However, I think that W-L record in the short term is an irrelevant stat to my point.  It's interesting to watch, whatever happens...


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 11, 2011, 08:15:31 pm
It seems that when it comes to Tebow, his fans truly believe there is an "i" in team.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 12, 2011, 07:36:06 am
I've been wrong before and changed my tune.  I used to say that Brady was a product of the system, but came around to eventually call him one of the best ever.

Ditto... (hurts to admit it, though)

But, in fairness, Brady wasn't a great quarterback early in his career. As much as I dislike quarterback rating, I think it gives a good overall indication of Brady's level of play and how it has evolved from "somewhat above average" in his early years to "great" in the past 5 years or so (from 2001 to 2001: 86.5, 85.7, 85.9, 92.6, 92.3, 87.9, 117.2, 83.9, 96.2, 111.0, 106.0).

Like with Tebow, team success was a huge part of what anointed him "great" very early on -- at a time when it was clearly NOT deserved. I have nothing against Tebow and as long as it doesn't hurt the Fins, I wouldn't mind him becoming great... but he's not even remotely close now. (He's decidedly worse that Brady was early on.)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 12, 2011, 10:26:38 am
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/kerry_byrne/11/29/tim.tebow/index.html


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 12, 2011, 11:38:25 am
I think that Tim Tebow is not only not GREAT (which is obvious).  I don't even think he's good.  He's interesting.  He makes things happen.  But his heroics are often not even his own doing and they are too late to be consistent.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 12, 2011, 12:05:59 pm
How can you argue they aren't consistent? He's won six in a row all by the same "formula." That's the model of consistency. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 12, 2011, 12:28:14 pm
The argueing he isn't great is really a very very tired strawman argument.  I have very very rarely ever seen anyone claim Tebow is an elite or great QB (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers). 

What you have is his supporters stating he is a good or decent QB and his detractors claiming that he isn't great. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on December 12, 2011, 01:04:55 pm
^^^ Actually, you have people not even referring to them as the Denver Broncos anymore here in Florida. The general statements are:

Who is Tebow playing today?
Tebow beat...
Tebow won again.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 12, 2011, 01:10:30 pm
^^^ Actually, you have people not even referring to them as the Denver Broncos anymore here in Florida. The general statements are:

Who is Tebow playing today?
Tebow beat...
Tebow won again.

Not surprising in Florida. 

You have people in Ann Arbor Michigan who call the New England Patriots "Brady".  (Michigan has the largest following of NEP outside of the 6 NE states). 

But that doesn't mean that these people are willing to bet the house that Tebow is destine to have his bust in Canton.

He is an exciting player to watch.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 12, 2011, 04:08:41 pm
The argueing he isn't great is really a very very tired strawman argument.

I disagree with both the premise and the statement.

First off, the supposed strawman argument isn't presented in vacuum, I have (as have others here) consistently held that Tebow is a BAD quarterback. There is no strawman argument being presented where the attempt is simply to argue that he isn't GREAT.

Secondly, I most certainly have heard from countless football fans, Broncos fans, and even reporters that Tebow is great -- or at least words sufficiently close to that effect. Examples from reporters these past few days include terrific, compelling, "one heck of a football player", "special", "miracle worker", and so on. The infatuation is unbelievable.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 12, 2011, 06:36:28 pm
How can you argue they aren't consistent? He's won six in a row all by the same "formula." That's the model of consistency. -EK

The Broncos won 6 in a row. Often in spite of his play over the whole game. The defense came up with a big play to give Prater a chance to win the game again.
I would even say Prater has done as much, if not more to ensure this winning streak as Tebow. It is not like he has been making chip shot field goals to win the games or tie for OT.
Prater has been really clutch and truly consistent this season for the Broncos.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 12, 2011, 07:40:23 pm
A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! You're actually arguing that the KICKER has been more instrumental in their wins than Tebow?? OMG HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Everyone shut off your computers. The worst argument in the history of the internet has been made. We can all stop now. The kicker?  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

That is all. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 12, 2011, 08:45:59 pm
Tebow is Mark Sanchez without the accuracy.  I have yet to hear any Tebow supporter explain why Sanchez, with his NFL record 4 road playoff wins, is not the-same-or-better compared to Tebow.

If "record is the only thing that counts," why haven't you all been singing the praises of the Sanchize for the last 3 years?

Have some consistency.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 13, 2011, 01:23:08 am
A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! You're actually arguing that the KICKER has been more instrumental in their wins than Tebow?? OMG HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Everyone shut off your computers. The worst argument in the history of the internet has been made. We can all stop now. The kicker?  HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

That is all. -EK


Why yes. Since this little 7-1 run has started, Prater has kicked the game winning FG four times. Those four also happened to be in OT each time. He was instrumental in tying the last three games and then winning in OT.
Just to point out how important and consistent Prater has for the Broncos
1. He scored the last 9 points to beat SD
2. He scored the last 6 points to beat Minn
3. He scored the last 6 points to beat Chicago
Several of these field goals were over 50yds with a lot of pressure on him to either win or go to OT.
Then when you throw in the interception return for a TD against the Jets, you get the amazing stat that five of the last seven Broncos wins were accomplished by people not named Tebow.
This is why I have said all along that the Broncos as a team are playing well, and it is not all because of one man.
But since you foolishly cling to the whole "one man" argument, I showed how that can be used to show how one man not named Tebow has put the Broncos onto his shoulders this season and delivered in the clutch time and time again.
But I suppose you are going to stick with the messiah.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 13, 2011, 07:57:26 am
Tebow is Mark Sanchez without the accuracy.  I have yet to hear any Tebow supporter explain why Sanchez, with his NFL record 4 road playoff wins, is not the-same-or-better compared to Tebow.

If "record is the only thing that counts," why haven't you all been singing the praises of the Sanchize for the last 3 years?

Have some consistency.

This isn't a new argument by you, Spider. I, for one, lready told you that the difference to me is that Sanchez had those four wins over the span of a few seasons. Tebow has won 6 in a row, is 7-1, and has 6 comeback wins in one season. I've never heard of anything like that. Who does that?? If Sanchez would have had all of those wins in one year, the story would be bigger than Tebow, because he would have won the Super Bowl. I don't discount at all what Mark has done in NY. In a lot of ways, he's Tebow with a better arm, but who is less mobile. He has been the beneficiary of a great D, very strong running game, and seems to come up big when it matters most, even if he's played poorly in a game for three quarters. That's pretty much Tebow as well isn't it?

BSmooth- when did I EVER say it was a one man show? When did I EVER say that Tebow was the only reason they are winning? I have repeatedly said that he beneftits from a great system, a strong running game, and a terrific defense. I've also said that right now he's about the 10th QB I'd take in the NFL. Not first; not top three; not even top five. Reread my posts- they haven't changed. The guy has 6 comeback wins in 11 career starts. That's insane. No one in recent NFL history has done anything like that. He's doing it with a team full of offensive nobodies. Willing to bet that not one player on the offense makes the pro bowl, and the one guy who might have got traded as soon as Tebow became a starter. To argue that Tebow has NOTHING to do with the wins, and that somehow the kicker (wtf?) is the offensive super hero is nuts. Prater didn't get them in position to kick those game winners did he? Did he run or pass for any TD's? Did he run in either of the 2-pt conversions Denver has used to even get to OT? The only thing on the entire team that has changed in the past 8 games is Tebow became the starter. If the team is good enough to win NOW, without any contribution whatsoever from Tebow, why were they 1-4 before he became a starter? No, not a "one man" argument at all; but you certainly can not discount that the team is better with him. The records speak for themselves. 1 or 2 or even 5 wins might be coincidental, but 7-1? And you really believe that he has NOTHING to do with this? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 13, 2011, 05:33:55 pm
This isn't a new argument by you, Spider. I, for one, lready told you that the difference to me is that Sanchez had those four wins over the span of a few seasons. Tebow has won 6 in a row, is 7-1, and has 6 comeback wins in one season. I've never heard of anything like that.
Tebow hasn't even made the playoffs yet.  Mark Sanchez has taken his team, on the road, to the AFC Championship game two years in a row.  Yet while you are here vehemently defending Tebow, here is what you have had to say about the QB that has already produced a record number of road playoff wins (emphasis added):

(regarding winning meaningful games)
"Neither has Sanchez. THAT'S the point. He has been on some teams that have done those things, but acting like he won the damn games for them is like saying Brad Johnson "won" the Super Bowl for the Bucs in Super Bowl XXXVII. He- and Sanchez- are merely along for the ride." (link (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19141.msg242374/topicseen.html#msg242374))

"This is why I would- after ALL the crap that's been slung about him- still have Henne over Sanchez. As a third year QB, you HAVE to understand the offense well enough to either make the correct call at that point, or let the clock wind down before you call timeout. Maybe Sanchez was still having flashbacks of the ridiculous "flinch" play from the previous week? Who knows, but he and Rex both suck; him for the play, Rex for the comment." (link (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19401.msg246329/topicseen.html#msg246329))

So if I am to understand you correctly, Sanchez (with his 4 road playoff wins) has never won a meaningful game, and was just along for the ride.  Yet we're supposed to believe that Tebow (who has yet to make the playoffs) is any different?  And you claimed that you'd take Henne over Sanchez... would you also take Henne over Tebow?

The bottom line is, any train of logic that leads to the conclusion that Tebow is a good QB also leads to the conclusion that Sanchez is a great QB.  As a person who has followed the AFC East, such a statement should create some cognitive dissonance for you.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 13, 2011, 06:08:27 pm

(regarding winning meaningful games)
"Neither has Sanchez. THAT'S the point. He has been on some teams that have done those things, but acting like he won the damn games for them is like saying Brad Johnson "won" the Super Bowl for the Bucs in Super Bowl XXXVII. He- and Sanchez- are merely along for the ride." (link (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19141.msg242374/topicseen.html#msg242374))

"This is why I would- after ALL the crap that's been slung about him- still have Henne over Sanchez. As a third year QB, you HAVE to understand the offense well enough to either make the correct call at that point, or let the clock wind down before you call timeout. Maybe Sanchez was still having flashbacks of the ridiculous "flinch" play from the previous week? Who knows, but he and Rex both suck; him for the play, Rex for the comment." (link (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19401.msg246329/topicseen.html#msg246329))

So if I am to understand you correctly, Sanchez (with his 4 road playoff wins) has never won a meaningful game, and was just along for the ride.  Yet we're supposed to believe that Tebow (who has yet to make the playoffs) is any different?  And you claimed that you'd take Henne over Sanchez... would you also take Henne over Tebow?

The bottom line is, any train of logic that leads to the conclusion that Tebow is a good QB also leads to the conclusion that Sanchez is a great QB.  As a person who has followed the AFC East, such a statement should create some cognitive dissonance for you.

I'm man enough to admit I was wrong about Sanchez. He will likely finish with close to 30 TD's this year, and his completion % has increased every season. I stand by the fact that I say Sanchez did not win those playoff games by himself. He had the help of a great D and great running game- hey- didn't I just say that about Tebow? You can't twist my words to fit your argument; you're claiming that I said he's never been on the winning side of a meaningful game. That's not even close to what I said or meant, and you know it. Reread the context of my post- Sanchez hasn't "won" (as in, carried the team and won the game for them) those meaningful games. Maybe it's hard to decipher inflection in print here. But, when did I ever say they won in spite of Sanchez's play? That seems to be the consensus about Tebow from you guys- that Denver wins in spite of him. That's my argument- they don't. He's every bit as responsible for their wins as Sanchez is for the Jets.

And what about your repeated argument that Tebow sucks so bad, he doesn't "qualify" for QB rating? How ironic is it that he IS currently ranked, DOES in fact qualify, and is ranked ahead of Sanchez. In fact, he's #14, with two guys ahead of him injured. Haven't I said repeatedly that I'd take Tebow at about #10 among current players? Of the guys ahead of him, removing Schaub and Cutler for injuries, I'd put Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Tony Romo, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, and Matthew Stafford clealry ahead of him, Alex Smith and Matt Ryan maybe not so clearly ahead, and- based on their play THIS year- Philip Rivers and Matt Moore behind him. So look at that- #10 isn't really that crazy based on the numbers, and once again, it's not like I said he's the entire team or the best QB in football. The problem with you Tebow haters is you fail to see any POV other than, "He sucks." I never claimed he was an MVP or a Pro-Bowl QB, I simply said he's been a valuable contributer to each of their wins. Somehow you guys keeo twisting that because for reasons known only to you, you can only see in black and white over this issue. -EK
 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 13, 2011, 06:34:54 pm
I'm man enough to admit I was wrong about Sanchez.
So the 2+ years of Sanchez you had already seen weren't enough to convince you (less than a month ago, you preferred Henne over Sanchez), but somehow, the last 4 weeks have won you over?  I guess if that's what it takes to continue to praise Tebow, I commend you for your determination.

Quote
I stand by the fact that I say Sanchez did not win those playoff games by himself. He had the help of a great D and great running game- hey- didn't I just say that about Tebow? [...] He's every bit as responsible for their wins as Sanchez is for the Jets.
So then, I presume you are willing to say that Tebow is as responsible for the Broncos' wins as Brad Johnson was for the Bucs' championship (just as you did for Sanchez)?

I mean, if you're seriously willing to concede that Tebow is the Brad Johnson or Trent Dilfer of 2011, I have no objection to that.  In fact, to be perfectly honest, if you're willing to admit that Tebow and Sanchez are equally responsible for their teams' records, that's totally fine with me.  That's been my point the whole time.

Everyone on this board is well and thoroughly aware of Sanchez and his role in the Jets' performances.  If you agree that Tebow is the new Sanchez, that says more than enough.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 13, 2011, 06:38:43 pm
Seriously are you blind or just dense? I actually posted that they are basically the same player like six posts ago? Yet you are STILL going on about this. It amazes me that you ignore EVERY valid point I make to further perpetuate an argument that I acquiesced to already. What- no response to the QB rating comment that you are wrong about? Nothing to say about the fact that I repeatedly put him around ten but you somehow incorrectly argue that means I said he's number one? Don't dodge the things you're wrong about. If you're gonna have a set big enough to call me out if I'm incorrect, have a set big enough to admit when you're incorrect too. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 13, 2011, 06:46:14 pm
The problem with you Tebow haters is you fail to see any POV other than, "He sucks." I never claimed he was an MVP or a Pro-Bowl QB, I simply said he's been a valuable contributer to each of their wins

No, the problem we have is that he is being given full credit for the whole turn around. We "haters" just point out that the teams is playing better and he is part of a whole team.
I for one have not said he is a horrible QB or even the worst in the league. I see the current 7-1 streak for what it is, a coming together of many factors that have allowed the Broncos the opportunity to win.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 13, 2011, 06:55:23 pm
Bullshit BSmooth. The title of this thread is "Tebow is garbage." YOU tried to argue the kicker is a more valuable player than the starting QB. How is that not saying he is horrible? No one here- least of all me- is giving him full credit for anything. That's the problem: Tebow is a massive media story because he's a good kid and the team is winning. Nobody's giving him the credit you claim. All the haters just think that because he's a feel-good story, that means everyone is saying he's the greatest qb since forever. NOBODY is saying that, so what exactly is your point? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 13, 2011, 07:10:07 pm
What- no response to the QB rating comment that you are wrong about?
If the Broncos make the playoffs this season, are you then going to come back to this thread and crow about how I said Tebow has never played in a playoff game, and insist that I admit I was wrong?

Posts have timestamps attached to them.  At the time I made that post, Tebow did not qualify for the NFL's passer statistics page.  After starting 7  games.  And now you want to cheer because he finally qualified on his 8th?  This is you "proving me wrong"?  Please.

Quote
Nothing to say about the fact that I repeatedly put him around ten but you somehow incorrectly argue that means I said he's number one?
On one hand, you claim you put him at around ten.
At the same time, you claim that 30 starting QBs wish they were playing as well as him.  32 - 30 = top 2.

Don't get mad at me for holding you to your own statements.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 13, 2011, 07:25:30 pm
I never said thirty guys wish they were playing as well as him. Again- you're outting words in my mouth. What I said was- and I'm quoting directly: "There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter." That hasn't changed. And it doesn't imply that I think he's number two in the league, not matter how much you want it to. Regarding the "qualifying for QB rating thing," didn't I say that if had played a whole season at that point he would have qualified? You tried to make an argument about it because he didn't play in any of the first four games and most of the fifth. Your argument fell flat the second he had enough passes, because it only proves what I said from the start- if he'd have played all year, he would have been in the list from the get go. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 13, 2011, 07:58:58 pm
I never said thirty guys wish they were playing as well as him.  Again- you're outting words in my mouth. What I said was- and I'm quoting directly: "There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter." That hasn't changed. And it doesn't imply that I think he's number two in the league, not matter how much you want it to.
So let me get this straight:

- his awesome record indicates that he's a quality QB (to the exclusion of other statistics)
- 30 other starting QBs have a worse record than him

HOWEVER

- we are not to infer that your reference to his #2 record should be used to rank him as a QB?

You can't continually scream about his amazing record and then act shocked when people hold you to those statements.  Are we to use his record to rank him, or not?  If not, why do you continually keep referring to it?

Quote
Regarding the "qualifying for QB rating thing," didn't I say that if had played a whole season at that point he would have qualified?
For the fourth time:  He had started as many games as Matt Moore, who had already qualified (and was on the list).  Your argument is therefore nullified; Tebow's exclusion had nothing to do with the number of games he had played and everything to do with the number of passes he had thrown.

If you make any reply on this subject, please address why Matt Moore was already on the list (as you have continually avoided doing so).  And while we're on the subject, please address how you have Rivers and Moore ranked below Tebow (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19299.msg248777.html#msg248777) (based on their play this year!) when they are both above him in passer rating (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING).  Let me guess: it's because Tebow's record is better?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 13, 2011, 08:08:29 pm
Bullshit BSmooth. The title of this thread is "Tebow is garbage." YOU tried to argue the kicker is a more valuable player than the starting QB. How is that not saying he is horrible? No one here- least of all me- is giving him full credit for anything. That's the problem: Tebow is a massive media story because he's a good kid and the team is winning. Nobody's giving him the credit you claim. All the haters just think that because he's a feel-good story, that means everyone is saying he's the greatest qb since forever. NOBODY is saying that, so what exactly is your point? -EK

No I used the kicker to point out the ridiculous notion that one person made the difference on the team. Tebow is a massive story because of all the hype surrounding his religious beliefs in college and after.
You have repeatedly attacked what I have said showing stats and other factors as hating, then you go and agree with Dave who is basically saying the same thing I am.
All you keep saying is he is a winner. Well guess what, so are all the other players on the team. Yet it is somehow only relevant to Tebow. Guess what the other guys who played with Tebow in college and are now in the NFL are winners too, since they also went 33-5 in college with national championships.
Tebow has been surrounded by talent and coaches who knew how to coach to his strengths since he was a freshmen at Florida.
You need to get off your "hater" high horse and realize that some of us who are not drinking the Tebow kool aid are doing it based on what we are seeing on the field and what the rest of the team is doing.
The Broncos are 8-5 because of many factors, which they have taken advantage of. Not because of a player you labeled a "ONE-IN-A-MILLION" talent. That would make him one of the best players ever in the NFL.
You and the Tebowites continue to give too much credit to one man, while ignoring the other accomplishments of the other men on the field on both sides of the ball.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 14, 2011, 08:54:16 am
So let me get this straight:

- his awesome record indicates that he's a quality QB (to the exclusion of other statistics)
- 30 other starting QBs have a worse record than him

HOWEVER

- we are not to infer that your reference to his #2 record should be used to rank him as a QB?

You can't continually scream about his amazing record and then act shocked when people hold you to those statements.  Are we to use his record to rank him, or not?  If not, why do you continually keep referring to it?
For the fourth time:  He had started as many games as Matt Moore, who had already qualified (and was on the list).  Your argument is therefore nullified; Tebow's exclusion had nothing to do with the number of games he had played and everything to do with the number of passes he had thrown.

If you make any reply on this subject, please address why Matt Moore was already on the list (as you have continually avoided doing so).  And while we're on the subject, please address how you have Rivers and Moore ranked below Tebow (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19299.msg248777.html#msg248777) (based on their play this year!) when they are both above him in passer rating (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING).  Let me guess: it's because Tebow's record is better?

Definitely NOT to the exclusion of anything. He has the highest QB rating in the fourth quarter of ANY starter this year. How do you keep conveniently ignoring that? You're trying desperately to make an apple-apples comparison out of apples-oranges. You can't tell me that almost every other starter wouldn't want to only have one loss. In no way does that infer Tebow is better. If you take that out of context and out of my statement, that's YOUR issue, not mine. By your own admission, I've put Tebow around #10 in the league. Trying to twist my words to imply something else is fodder. Alex Smith's team has a better record than Romo or Manning's. Bet those guys would love to only have three losses, but I'm in no way implying by that statement that are worse QB's than Smith. You can't draw that correlation. Matt Moore (and a lot of other guys) were on the list because they run a completely different offense than Denver. Your point that Tebow should be penalized in the eyes of the fans/media because he didn't "qualify" for the list is dumb. His offense isn't set up to give him a ton of passing attempts. My point- which clearly went over your head- was that as soon as Tebow DID qualify, he would be at least middle of the pack, not as bad as you keep saying he is.

Re. BSmooth's comments, simply put it comes down to this- the team is the exact same as it was (minus a pro bowl caliber receiver) before he started. Explain to me this- not something else, not your personal agenda against Tebow or any other argument, just this, and this only: If the only change Denver made after going 1-4 was at QB, and they have since gone 7-1, how can you argue that Tebow deserves NO credit? I never said, implied or argued he deserves ALL the credit; I've repeated several times that his defense and running game contribute heavily, so don't even start with the "You say it's all Tebow." I don't say that; I've never said that. I'm saying that without Tebow they are a .250 team; with him they are a .875 team. Explain that to me. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 14, 2011, 09:20:24 am
He has the highest QB rating in the fourth quarter of ANY starter this year. How do you keep conveniently ignoring that?
Because the 4th quarter is a quarter just like any other?

If you expect me to give Tebow accolades because he doesn't show up for the first three quarters of the game, you're sadly mistaken.  (I wonder what his passer rating rank is for the first 3/4ths of games?)  I subscribe to the same theory that Aaron Rodgers recently espoused on his weekly radio show: if you do your job properly in the first three quarters, you don't need 4th quarter heroics.

Quote
You can't tell me that almost every other starter wouldn't want to only have one loss. In no way does that infer Tebow is better.
So please explain why you rank Tebow above Moore and Rivers, exactly?  If it's not record, then what is it?

Quote
Matt Moore (and a lot of other guys) were on the list because they run a completely different offense than Denver.
That's correct: like every other team in the NFL, they run an offense in which the QB does not get over 25% of his yardage production on the ground.  In other words, they run an offense where quarterbacks are expected to be proficient at passing.

Quote
Your point that Tebow should be penalized in the eyes of the fans/media because he didn't "qualify" for the list is dumb. His offense isn't set up to give him a ton of passing attempts.
On the same team, Orton was averaging 35.5 attempts per game.  Tebow is averaging 18.  The reason why his offense "isn't set up" to give him passing attempts is specifically because he is the quarterback.

Quote
My point- which clearly went over your head- was that as soon as Tebow DID qualify, he would be at least middle of the pack, not as bad as you keep saying he is.
And my point is that he passes the ball so infrequently that he didn't qualify at all, and barely qualifies now.  The reason why he doesn't pass that often is because, in spite of his "middle of the pack" passer rating, his coaches don't trust him as a passer.  This is not the hallmark of a quality QB.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 14, 2011, 09:33:37 am
So, I'm guessing by your logic, LBJ is severely overrated because he doesn't perform well throughout the entire game right? He only performs well 3/4 of the game so any success his team has can't be his doing- gotta play well the whole game, right? Would you rather have a guy who is great 3/4 of the game and then disappears in the final quarter, putting his team in a position to lose, or a guy who plays poorly 3/4 of the game and then is the best player in his sport (and don't even try to say he isn't- the numbers don't lie) in the fourth, putting his team in a position to win?

You know what? Don't even bother answering that. I've repeatedly agreed with everyone that Tebow is a factor in the success of the Broncos and that the D and running game have a lot to do with it as well. Somehow you keep wanting to argue something I'm not even saying. The two biggest stories in the NFL this year are the Packers and Tebow, but ESPN, the NFL, every media outlet, and every sportscaster must ALL be wrong and you guys must be right. You can't make sense out of nonsense, so believe whatever you want. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on December 14, 2011, 09:44:36 am
then is the best player in his sport

I thought your position that you have been so proud to state many times was that you weren't calling Tebow great. This statement is way past calling him great.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 14, 2011, 10:04:52 am
Why don't you quote my whole sentence? In the fourth quarter he has the highest QB rating. Don't cherry pick and only pull half a sentence. I didn't create his stats or the way they are evaluated. It is what it is. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on December 14, 2011, 10:54:40 am
^^^ I didn't quote your whole sentence just as you ignored Tebows stats for the first three quarters, if you can pcik and choose, so can I.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 14, 2011, 11:00:19 am
How am I ignoring them? If I say he's the best player in the league, I'm ignoring them. If I sy he's the best player in the fourth quarter, and that makes him an overall top ten guy, by it's very essence I've taken his entire game into account. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on December 14, 2011, 11:13:30 am
That is delusional. By saying he is the greatest fourth quarter player in the game you account for the entire game? That is some spin that can get you working for a politician as a PR guy. It sounds good, but I'm not buying into it.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 14, 2011, 11:40:23 am
Can you not read? When did I say he's the best player in the league? I said- for the hundredth time- his outstanding fourth quarter play makes him about the tenth best qb in the league. Where's this number one shit coming from? As with most of the people who dislike Tebow, you're not even responding to what I said. You're responding to something you think I said or something you want to fit your argument. Where- show me please- have I said he's the best qb in the league? Where have I said ANYTHING other than "about tenth???" -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 14, 2011, 07:17:52 pm
So, I'm guessing by your logic, LBJ is severely overrated because he doesn't perform well throughout the entire game right?
You seem to have gotten our positions confused.

YOU are the one who wants to ignore parts of the game to fit his worldview.  I am 100% in favor of evaluating entire games, which means:

- for LBJ, best player in the league for 3 quarters and a mediocre player for the 4th makes him a top 5 player
- for Tebow, near-worst player in the league for 3 quarters and an awesome 4th makes him mediocre

Quote
Would you rather have a guy who is great 3/4 of the game and then disappears in the final quarter, putting his team in a position to lose, or a guy who plays poorly 3/4 of the game and then is the best player in his sport (and don't even try to say he isn't- the numbers don't lie) in the fourth, putting his team in a position to win?
This is exactly what I'm talking about.  You are succumbing to the media fallacy that the 4th quarter is somehow more important than the others.

Would you care to discuss Aaron Rodgers 4th quarter performances this year?  Hell, would you like to discuss them over his career?  Here (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-10176973) is a good primer.  But here's the thing: when you do your job in the first three quarters, you don't need 4th quarter heroics to win!

Quote
The two biggest stories in the NFL this year are the Packers and Tebow, but ESPN, the NFL, every media outlet, and every sportscaster must ALL be wrong and you guys must be right.
Who is saying Tebow isn't a big story?  Stop inventing strawmen.

P.S. I'm still waiting for you to explain why you rank Tebow above Rivers and Moore when his passer rating is worse.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 15, 2011, 01:50:49 am
Can you not read? When did I say he's the best player in the league? I said- for the hundredth time- his outstanding fourth quarter play makes him about the tenth best qb in the league. Where's this number one shit coming from? As with most of the people who dislike Tebow, you're not even responding to what I said. You're responding to something you think I said or something you want to fit your argument. Where- show me please- have I said he's the best qb in the league? Where have I said ANYTHING other than "about tenth???" -EK


Well earlier in this thread you did call him a one-in-a-million talent. That would make him one of the best players in the league.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: shamrock on December 15, 2011, 04:22:14 am
Great story!
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=lc-carpenter_tim_tebow_alex_smith_draft_broncos_121411


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on December 15, 2011, 07:53:58 am
^^^^ That was a great read. I'm sure it will get torn apart but it shows that people really do not know Tebow and his relationship with his team. Everyone thinks Tebow is preaching all day and doesn't have time to earn the respect and confidence that his teammates give him. Obviously that isn't true.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 18, 2011, 06:32:41 am
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tebow/1374394

From SNL last night. Jesus explains why the Broncos are winning!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 18, 2011, 08:44:32 am
I sincerely hope the Tebow nonsense continues unabated for another week!

Realistically, though, I think the spread (7.5 points) is probably way low on this game. I fully expect the Patriots to crush the Broncos. New England's defense is pretty bad, but Belichick should be able to scheme his way out of it and shut down the run.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 18, 2011, 09:41:49 am
I sincerely hope the Tebow nonsense continues unabated for another week!

Realistically, though, I think the spread (7.5 points) is probably way low on this game. I fully expect the Patriots to crush the Broncos. New England's defense is pretty bad, but Belichick should be able to scheme his way out of it and shut down the run.

These are the type of games NE lives for. Like the Jets game last year, when everyone thought the Jets were the "it" team and had all the hype and NE put up like 50+ on them.

Same type of game. Denver has the headlines. Denver has the hype, NE will feed off of it and probably crush them. Hope I am wrong though.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 18, 2011, 04:24:43 pm
Holy crap.

That was a nice touchdown by Tebow... (And more than just a few Patsies on that drive really need to start making tackles -- that was like watching the Dolphins D in the first half of the season).


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 18, 2011, 04:39:28 pm
Denver is going to kill the Pats today. NE defense can't stop anyone. Tebow will have his best day as a pro, and the haters will find something to hate.  ???  -EK

Edit- FYI- got that in when it was still 7-6 Pats. It's 13-7 Denver now.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 18, 2011, 04:42:41 pm
Tebow will have his best day as a pro, and the haters will find something to hate.

For the record, I'd just like to affirm that I'm a huge Tebow fan today. ;)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 18, 2011, 04:44:40 pm
Denver is going to kill the Pats today. NE defense can't stop anyone. Tebow will have his best day as a pro, and the haters will find something to hate.  ???  -EK

Your are pathetic with your "hater". You are a moron. The Broncos have 133yds rushing already, and Tebow is only responsible for 18, and 9 of those came from escaping a sack.
But it is all Tebow. That line is opening huge holes, and the rb's are off to the races.
This is showing what us "haters" have been saying all along. It is not all about Tebow, the whole team is playing much better than the first few games.
Tebow is doing a great job handing off the ball today.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 18, 2011, 04:50:20 pm
Annnnnnnnnnnd the hate begins already. Who scored that first TD? Yeah, that's right. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on December 18, 2011, 04:56:19 pm
I find the polarizing love/hate for this guy hilarious.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 18, 2011, 05:07:14 pm
Man the Broncos O line is beastly today. At this rate they might get 300 yds rushing today.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 18, 2011, 05:43:03 pm
Keep the personal attacks out of the thread, please.

Attack the argument, not the person.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 18, 2011, 05:46:06 pm
Thank you Spider-Dan. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 18, 2011, 07:25:42 pm
28 yd sack. Can we agree that the Broncos got beaten as a team today, just like they won?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 18, 2011, 07:43:14 pm
Absolutely. They turned the ball over way too much and just couldn't stop Brady. Tebow's gotta do a better job holding onto the ball. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Thundergod on December 19, 2011, 01:08:02 am
In case anyone missed the Tebow skit on SNL:      :D

http://xfinitytv.comcast.net/tv/Saturday-Night-Live/10009/2177942291/Tebow/videos?cmpid=FCST_tvnews




Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 19, 2011, 01:21:52 am
The Broncos lost today the same way they've been winning.  They didn't really play that much differently, aside from fumbling.  ...but they also couldn't keep up with the Pats ability to score points, offensively.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on December 19, 2011, 03:00:01 pm
Update:

Tim Tebow is still garbage.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 19, 2011, 03:00:58 pm
Update:

Tim Tebow is still garbage.

Yeah....but he looked better than Eli this week.  ;) -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on December 19, 2011, 04:11:18 pm
Yeah....but he looked better than Eli this week.  ;) -EK

Eli Manning >> Matt More + Chad Henne + Tim Tebow combined.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 19, 2011, 04:57:15 pm
ABSOLUTELY.... Just not yesterday.  >:D -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 19, 2011, 10:10:18 pm
Week 17  KC at Denver..........Orton vs Tebow.

And KC and Orton might be able to spoil Tebow and the Broncos dream season depending on the outcome of this Saturday's games. That will be a crazy atmosphere if that game has meaning.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 20, 2011, 03:43:36 pm
Eli Manning >> Matt More + Chad Henne + Tim Tebow combined.

Philip Rivers >>> Eli Manning

Philip Rivers + Shawne Merriman + Nate Kaeding >>>>>>>>>>>> Eli Manning



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 21, 2011, 09:14:16 pm
Since we are talking about Tebow. Why does he get all the love over someone like Dalton who plays in a far tougher division, is winning, and is putting up nice stats as a rookie?
Hell even Newton has almost the same QB rating as Tebow.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on December 22, 2011, 08:35:26 am
^^^ Because, as far as I'm concerned, he was a beloved college kid with legions of fans. He is different than the others.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 22, 2011, 08:53:11 am
Because Dalton has two stud receivers in Green and Simpson (yes, Jerome is the real deal), and Newton has Smith, two former pro bowl TE's, and two former pro bowl RB's to dump the ball to. Denver's best receiver was traded to the Rams as soon as Tebow was announced as a starter. Massive difference in offensive talent. If Dalton was winning with less around him, or if Newton was winning at all, it would be more comparable. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on December 22, 2011, 04:44:10 pm
This season Tebow has in int% of 0.9, lowest in the league and if he keeps it up will have him tie for 3rd place being one of 5 QB to ever have a season in which less than 1 out of 100 passes are intercepted.

Beyond the fact that he make things happen with his feet.  He doesn't cost his team games.   



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 22, 2011, 04:53:24 pm
^ No argument there.  He protects the football.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on December 22, 2011, 06:40:22 pm
^ No argument there.  He protects the football.

Except when he is holding it...


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 22, 2011, 06:48:16 pm
Because Dalton has two stud receivers in Green and Simpson (yes, Jerome is the real deal)


Jerome Simpson has caught 40 balls this year for 600 yards. That is a stud???

Tell me you are kidding! Please!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 22, 2011, 11:49:07 pm
Yes Mike. Give him another year to keep developing. He started all of two games last season, and is splitting receptions with Green. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 23, 2011, 05:26:51 am
Yes Mike. Give him another year to keep developing. He started all of two games last season, and is splitting receptions with Green. -EK

You said he is a stud now because Cincy has 2 stud WR's. How do you split receptions? I don't understand that. Not trying to be a dick, just asking. Do they each get a half a catch or something?

He also was caught with a bunch of drugs and paraphernalia at his house and is facing a long suspension after the season going into next year if he isn't in Jail which is likely. I think his career is going to be a very short one on the football field.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 23, 2011, 08:14:23 am
6'2" 200 pound receiver with an 11'4" broad jump, 41" vertical, and the seventh fastest 40 time in the combine his rookie year. That's a stud talent. The half a ball comment is just outlandish. Stop looking for things to argue about. There's only one football to throw, so obviously both Green and Simpson can't both make catches on the same play. But since you love to argue oh so much, go back to the original comment- whether or not you agree Simpson is a stud (and there's no point in debating it further; you say no, I say yes) he's better than any of Denver's receivers, and he's the number two guy in Cincy. THAT'S why Dalton doesn't get as much love. He has more talent to throw to. It doesn't matter in the slightest what happens in the offseason with Simpson's drug charges or lack thereof because it has no reflection on THIS year's play by Tebow and Dalton. Please try to stick to the debate at hand. Nothing in this thread was about whether Simpson was a stud or a bust or something in between. I said one thing, you said another. There was no reason to further debate it and derail yet another thread because you want to argue about nothing with me. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 23, 2011, 11:41:32 am
Yes Mike. Give him another year to keep developing. He started all of two games last season, and is splitting receptions with Green. -EK
Why does a "stud" still need time to "keep developing"?  Are you talking about his potential, or his actual performance?

Furthermore, Eddie Royal and Jerome Simpson came into the league the same year (2008).  Royal's career stats destroy Simpson's; however, this year Simpson's stats have jumped up and Royal's stats have plummeted.  But I'm sure that has nothing to do with DEN going from the #7 team in passing yards in 2010 to #31 in 2011, or with a certain unconventional QB averaging under 125 passing yards per game.

And lest you think of blaming this on the departure of perennial Pro Bowler Brandon Lloyd, when Brandon Marshall left in 2010, Kyle Orton took DEN from the 2009 #20 ranked team in pass offense to #7 in 2010.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 23, 2011, 02:08:40 pm
Same year yes. Same amount of play? Not so much. Once again you're talking without a shred of evidence. Simpson played nothing but special teams his first year, then was buried behind TO and Ocho last year. He got 2 starts to finish the season and what did he do? 18 receptions, 247 yards and three TDs in those two games. The only year he and Royal have had equal playing time is this year and Simpson kills him. Keep talking though. Hey, ever figure out how you concluded Warner was cut by the Giants? Do you just make up "facts" to fit your argument, or are you wrong as often as it seems and you just don't respond when someone points it out. To recap, Simpson >> Royal. Warner not cut. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 23, 2011, 03:07:29 pm
Simpson played nothing but special teams his first year, then was buried behind TO and Ocho last year. He got 2 starts to finish the season and what did he do? 18 receptions, 247 yards and three TDs in those two games. The only year he and Royal have had equal playing time is this year and Simpson kills him.
Yes, because Simpson has a QB that passes the ball, and Royal does not.  Look at Royal's best year (when he had a QB that focuses on, you know, passing the ball)... it destroys Simpson's best effort.

Quote
Hey, ever figure out how you concluded Warner was cut by the Giants?
Because he signed a 2-year contract and was a free agent 1 year later, which normally means you were cut.  But you're right, Warner did have a special option to void his contract, which he exercised.

Quote
Do you just make up "facts" to fit your argument, or are you wrong as often as it seems and you just don't respond when someone points it out.
I take it that this means you are finally going to explain why you had Tebow ranked above both Moore and Rivers, when his passer rating was below both of them?  I mean, since you would never, ever simply elect to remain silent rather than respond.

P.S. Tebow fell out of the list of qualified QBs again (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING).  And you're wondering why Royal's stats aren't as good as Simpson's?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 23, 2011, 03:42:48 pm
No actually I'm wondering why every single thread I post in you have some snarky disputatios comment. It's really old. If you have a personal issue with me please stop derailing every thread to show your ass. PM me and be done with it. This shit is immature and far below what I would expect from a moderator. Grow up or leave me alone. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 23, 2011, 05:47:12 pm
Stop making ridiculous claims and I'll stop holding you accountable for them.

And in the future, if you aren't going to own up to your own mistakes, don't criticize others for not specifically acknowledging their own.  I have asked you three different times to reconcile your claims that a) you aren't rating Tebow over "30 other QBs" based on his record, while b) you did rate Tebow over two QBs with higher passer ratings this year (one of which has been to multiple Pro Bowls and won multiple playoff games).


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 23, 2011, 06:39:21 pm
6'2" 200 pound receiver with an 11'4" broad jump, 41" vertical, and the seventh fastest 40 time in the combine his rookie year. That's a stud talent. The half a ball comment is just outlandish. Stop looking for things to argue about. There's only one football to throw, so obviously both Green and Simpson can't both make catches on the same play. But since you love to argue oh so much, go back to the original comment- whether or not you agree Simpson is a stud (and there's no point in debating it further; you say no, I say yes) he's better than any of Denver's receivers, and he's the number two guy in Cincy. THAT'S why Dalton doesn't get as much love. He has more talent to throw to. It doesn't matter in the slightest what happens in the offseason with Simpson's drug charges or lack thereof because it has no reflection on THIS year's play by Tebow and Dalton. Please try to stick to the debate at hand. Nothing in this thread was about whether Simpson was a stud or a bust or something in between. I said one thing, you said another. There was no reason to further debate it and derail yet another thread because you want to argue about nothing with me. -EK

Who is derailing anything. You mentioned Jerome Simpson was a stud and brought his name into this conversation, I am talking about Jerome Simpson and brought up his stats that proved otherwise.  Jesus, little sensitive.

Newsflash: Jerome Simpson is NOT  a stud WR! Not even close. Good little player, NOT a stud WR in the NFL!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 23, 2011, 06:47:34 pm
Demaryius Thomas:2011   
DEN
9   25   441   17.6   42   4   19   0   0

Jerome Simpson:011   
CIN
14   40   629   15.7   84   3   29   0   0

I would say that these two receivers are pretty similar this season even though Simpson has started five more games.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 24, 2011, 03:05:08 am
Demaryius Thomas:2011   
DEN
9   25   441   17.6   42   4   19   0   0

Jerome Simpson:011   
CIN
14   40   629   15.7   84   3   29   0   0

I would say that these two receivers are pretty similar this season even though Simpson has started five more games.
Davone Bess has caught 2 more balls than Simpson and only 1 less TD and Bess doesn't even start.  Guess he is a total stud WR ...and he has done it with total no decent QB's


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 24, 2011, 01:46:06 pm
I think Thomas looks good, and he is obviously Tebow's favorite target.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 24, 2011, 03:58:14 pm
after today's embarrassing performance vs Buffalo with 4 INT's and now back to back loses....the bloom is off the Tebow rose!

The fairy-tale story is over


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: David Fulcher on December 24, 2011, 06:49:53 pm
Newsflash: Jerome Simpson is NOT  a stud WR! Not even close. Good little player, NOT a stud WR in the NFL!

While I don't believe that Jerome Simpson is necessarily a stud (though I honestly haven't gotten to watch the guy enough to say that he's not for sure, regardless of the stats), what happened today on his score was pretty spectacular.  I know athleticism alone does not make a player, even a skill position player like a WR, but WOW...that was pretty freaky!! 

In regards to Spider, I'd definitely say he has Eddie Royal beat in that department (athleticism).  I have gotten to watch Denver play a few more games than Cincy over the past 2-3 years, and I have to say that Eddie Royal is not really very impressive anymore himself.  You can say it's just because of Tebow, but again, he didn't really do much in 2009 or 2010 with Orton, either (and I think it was either last season or the middle of '09 when he was in McDaniels' doghouse, right?).  Maybe he was just great with Cutler, since his rookie season has been by FAR his best, but the guy has been pretty much average to mediocre since then with two different QB's, the first of whom led a mostly pass happy offense. 

I'd take either Simpson or Thomas (or Bess for that matter, for a comparable player who also came out in 2008...but wasn't drafted) over Royal at this point.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 24, 2011, 08:13:39 pm
Anyone who saw Simpson jump over a guy and do a mid-air flip to score a TD and land on his damn feet, and now wants to argue he's NOT a stud receiver is just foolish. That play had the guys on NFL network talking "greatest TD score EVER." -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Thundergod on December 24, 2011, 09:39:53 pm
^^^  Dude, that move was a thing of beauty. ha  :D


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 24, 2011, 10:03:44 pm
Anyone who saw Simpson jump over a guy and do a mid-air flip to score a TD and land on his damn feet, and now wants to argue he's NOT a stud receiver is just foolish. That play had the guys on NFL network talking "greatest TD score EVER." -EK

A "gimmick"type  leap into the endzone doesn't make a guy a stud WR!

Guys in the USFL, CFL, Arena leagues have had amazing leaps and jump over players and into the endzone. That doesn't make them a "STUD WR".....not even close

Nice play, tip of the cap, but doesn't make him a stud WR in any way shape or form.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 24, 2011, 10:04:48 pm


I'd take either Simpson or Thomas (or Bess for that matter, for a comparable player who also came out in 2008...but wasn't drafted) over Royal at this point.


Considering Simpson will probably be suspended all of next year and might be in jail, I wouldn't!  lol  ;)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 25, 2011, 12:52:04 am
Anyone who saw Simpson jump over a guy and do a mid-air flip to score a TD and land on his damn feet, and now wants to argue he's NOT a stud receiver is just foolish. That play had the guys on NFL network talking "greatest TD score EVER." -EK

It was a great move, but hardly the greatest TD ever.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Tenshot13 on December 25, 2011, 04:24:07 pm
It was a great move, but hardly the greatest TD ever.
it's insane to say that was hardly the greatest TD ever.  Give the guy some credit.  Arguably the greatest TD ever is more accurate.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: David Fulcher on December 25, 2011, 05:11:09 pm
Considering Simpson will probably be suspended all of next year and might be in jail, I wouldn't!  lol  ;)

If that turns out to be the case/bears true, then good point.  And given Goodell's history and policies with a lot of these players, if what you said happened is what he's being tried for, then yes, I wouldn't be surprised if he misses a lot of games if he's fortunate enough not to end up in jail. 

That being said...the guy's been looking like a good player this season and at the end of last.

It was a great move, but hardly the greatest TD ever.

Well, I'll just say that it was the greatest football scoring play this set of eyes beheld this season, at any level of competition.  "greatest ever" is for the talking heads like those already mentioned on NFL Network to sit around and debate about (I don't have the knowledge base nor viewing depth to cover 92 years of professional football), but it was still damn impressive regardless of its place in history.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 25, 2011, 10:35:28 pm


That being said...the guy's been looking like a good player this season and at the end of last.


Nobody said Simpson wasn't a good player. But a "STUD" WR,... nope! That is the Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, Roddy White, Greg Jennings level.  He ain't there.

Simpson is a good player, just not a "stud"


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 26, 2011, 08:11:23 am
Repeating your position over and over does not make it more correct. You've voiced your opinion; some people disagree with you. The broken record approach isn't going to change anyone's mind. When the guys who do this for a living- because now I've heard it on NFL network AND ESPN- are talking about not only the greatness of this catch, but how the guy blew up against Baltimore last time they played and how the expect he will do it again, what do you think, maybe you're wrong?

Edit- using Andre Johnson beautifully proves my point. If you're goin to rest on stats alone, not athletic ability, you can't say he's a "stud" any more than Simpson this year (which is Simpson's first year starting; previous seasons are not apples to apples). Johnson seems to be hurt every year, without fail and his actual "stats" this year reflect that this season.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 26, 2011, 09:29:43 am
Repeating your position over and over does not make it more correct. You've voiced your opinion; some people disagree with you. The broken record approach isn't going to change anyone's mind. When the guys who do this for a living- because now I've heard it on NFL network AND ESPN- are talking about not only the greatness of this catch, but how the guy blew up against Baltimore last time they played and how the expect he will do it again, what do you think, maybe you're wrong?

Edit- using Andre Johnson beautifully proves my point. If you're goin to rest on stats alone, not athletic ability, you can't say he's a "stud" any more than Simpson this year (which is Simpson's first year starting; previous seasons are not apples to apples). Johnson seems to be hurt every year, without fail and his actual "stats" this year reflect that this season.

You have repeated your Tebow stance about 50 times in this thread, save the lectures. Pot meet Mr. Kettle!

If you think Andre Johnson is in the same category as Jerome Simpson then you don't understand NFL football. Johnson has put up hall of fame type numbers in his career, Simpson has caught 45 balls and 4 TD's this year. Give me a break!! By the way, Andre Johnson in only 6 games this year (and he left 2 of them early in the first half) has similar numbers to Simpson.

In 15 games, Simpson 45 receptions, 671 yards and 4 TD's
In 6 games (more like 4.5 games) , Andre Johnson 31 receptions, 371 yards and 2 TD's.

So in 9 more games Simpson has caught a whole 14 more balls and a whopping 300 more yards....lol And because Simpson had 1 good game vs Baltimore last time he might have 1 good game vs Baltimore this week. How does having 1 good game every now and then make a guy a STUD WR? That is the point, not the occasional good game, good play, amazing leap....a STUD WR every play, every snap, every game. Simpson isn't a "STUD".


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 26, 2011, 09:43:13 am
In 6 games (more like 4.5 games) , Andre Johnson 31 receptions, 371 yards and 2 TD's.

That is the point, not the occasional good game, good play, amazing leap....a STUD WR every play, every snap, every game. Simpson isn't a "STUD".

Contradict yourself much? THAT is why I brought up the comparison. A stud reciever better be able to play more than 6 games. Shocker, though, someone disagrees with Mike and he goes all condescending on them. News flash, Mike- if you really knew half as much about this shit as you think you do, you'd be working in the industry and not being a keyboard warrior here. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean you're right and they're wrong. You've had a hard on for arguing with me about everything under the sun ALL YEAR, so I'm sure you'll have some snide, childish remark here too, but really, at the end of the day, is it THAT important for you to be right? I mean does your life honestly revolve around this website and "proving someone wrong"? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 26, 2011, 09:48:41 am
Contradict yourself much? THAT is why I brought up the comparison. A stud reciever better be able to play more than 6 games. -EK

So nobody is ever allowed to get hurt in the NFL?  ::)

By your logic Dan Marino wasn't a STUD QB because he tore his Achilles and missed most of the 1993 season. lol. This is silly on every level what you are saying.

In this thread alone you are wrong about Tebow, Sanchez, and Simpson. Congrats you got the hat trick. Hey when Sanchez fumbled on the 1 yard line Saturday  and threw 2 INT's that lost his team the game, was that further proof he is having the best year of his life? Just askin


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on December 26, 2011, 10:05:40 am
Really? Not enough to be a six year old in the thread, but now you're sending me vulgar PM's? Done here. Grow up and get a life. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 26, 2011, 10:09:15 am
Really? Not enough to be a six year old in the thread, but now you're sending me vulgar PM's? Done here. Grow up and get a life. -EK

Instead of derailing the thread I took our conversation to PM, and I would hardly call it "vulger".

Happy Holiday's EK! Best of luck to ya bud.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 26, 2011, 07:26:02 pm
it's insane to say that was hardly the greatest TD ever.  Give the guy some credit.  Arguably the greatest TD ever is more accurate.

I gave him credit, I said it was a great move. But in the history of the game, I would not call it the greatest TD ever. Not even arguably.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on December 26, 2011, 08:33:52 pm
The Immaculate Reception is a far more impressive and significant TD.

Calm down.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 26, 2011, 08:44:16 pm
The Immaculate Reception is a far more impressive and significant TD.

Calm down.

Totally agree with Spider on that... Also throw in the Sea of Hands and  the Antonio Freeman Monday Night Football TD reception in overtime vs the Vikings about a 10+ years or so back


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on December 26, 2011, 08:47:52 pm
While this play was certainly very cool, it was not entirely skill-based.  The player leaped into the air and was hit on his ankles in a way that made him spin perfectly.  Much of it was out of his control.  ...a cool oddity. 

I think that Reggie's hurdle over the defender is actually more impressive on a football level, because it made for a better result and it was purely because of Reggie's talent that the play occurred as it did.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on December 27, 2011, 11:03:20 am
Hey Guys!

So, I've been looking at the on-screen TV Guide that Xfinity has and searched for "Tebow Time". It didn't return any results. I tried tuning in anyways at the the time that I thought"Tebow Time" would be on...but again, no luck.

Did they cancel this program? I tried looking last week at 4:15 PM during the Patriots / Broncos game and then at 1PM a few days ago during the Broncos / Bills game.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 27, 2011, 05:04:55 pm
Did anyone happen to catch the Bill Maher tweet after the Broncos got killed by Buffalo?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 27, 2011, 05:16:47 pm
Hey Guys!

So, I've been looking at the on-screen TV Guide that Xfinity has and searched for "Tebow Time". It didn't return any results. I tried tuning in anyways at the the time that I thought"Tebow Time" would be on...but again, no luck.

Did they cancel this program? I tried looking last week at 4:15 PM during the Patriots / Broncos game and then at 1PM a few days ago during the Broncos / Bills game.

ha ha, very funny


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 29, 2011, 06:41:12 pm
If Orton goes into Denver this week and beats the Broncos, knocks them out of the playoffs, and Tebow plays bad, those fans of his in Denver will turn on Timmy very quick.

The Tim Tebow era might crash and burn this Sunday.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MaineDolFan on December 29, 2011, 10:07:48 pm
Curious and why off subject (sorry),but 26 pages... almost 400 replies...is this the longest thread in TDMMC history?  Impressive?  Say what you will about Tebow, I can't remember a thread ever generating this much talk for this long!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 30, 2011, 04:31:05 am
Curious and why off subject (sorry),but 26 pages... almost 400 replies...is this the longest thread in TDMMC history?  Impressive?  Say what you will about Tebow, I can't remember a thread ever generating this much talk for this long!

Someone in this thread called Tebow a "one in a million talent"  .....so its not surprising when you are talking about such greatness it generated such a response  ....ha ha ha!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 30, 2011, 04:59:13 am
Divine inspiration?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on December 30, 2011, 09:42:35 am
"Are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curve-ball??"

:)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on December 30, 2011, 05:18:21 pm
"Are you saying Jesus Christ can't hit a curve-ball??"

:)

ha ha ha ha, great line from a great movie!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Pappy13 on December 30, 2011, 08:00:12 pm
Yo, Pedro! Jo-Boo needs a refill!  >:D


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on December 30, 2011, 10:17:17 pm
Oh sure, now you come around.  He is not fooled.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on December 31, 2011, 03:50:21 pm
On a side note. If the Broncos lose this week, how much off season turmoil will this cause?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 01, 2012, 12:55:02 am
I can say this much about Tebow:  The guy knows how to win.  At Florida, he threw somewhere around 90 touchdowns and only 16 or 17 picks.  Not to mention he had some serious talent around him.  Aaron Hernandez, Louis Murphy, Percy Harvin, and Riley Cooper to name a few. 

Granted, he is not your prototypical NFL quarterback and he has a different kind of windup/delivery than most NFL quarterbacks.  I say put the type of talent around him from Florida and see what he does before passing judgment on him.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 01, 2012, 01:26:29 am
On a side note. If the Broncos lose this week, how much off season turmoil will this cause?

a lot. All of the "good feeling" and "winning" will be forgotten and only the miserable finish will be in the minds of those out there


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 01, 2012, 08:44:30 am
On a side note. If the Broncos lose this week, how much off season turmoil will this cause?
Not much.  The excuse will be that the games that Orton lost cost them the division, and that If Only Tebow Had A Full Season, The Broncos Would Have Made The Playoffs.

Tebow has locked himself in as next year's starter, regardless of this week's result.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 01, 2012, 09:47:44 am
Not much.  The excuse will be that the games that Orton lost cost them the division, and that If Only Tebow Had A Full Season, The Broncos Would Have Made The Playoffs.
Tebow has locked himself in as next year's starter, regardless of this week's result.

How is that an excuse? Seems pretty accurate to me. Orton was 1-4 as the starter. The worst Tebow can finish is 7-4. That's .636. Over the span of the season, it's 10-11 wins, which easily wins that division. Plus, two of the losses Orton had were against the Raiders and Chargers, who Denver beat with Tebow at QB; don't forget, too, they almost beat SD when Tebow was put in in the 4th quarter. He accounted for 2 TD's in what- 10 minutes? They would have actually won that game too, had his receiver not dropped a pass int he end zone to win the game. I get that you guys all hate Tebow for whatever reason, but the record pretty much speaks for itself. It's no excuse to say they would have had a better record if he started from week one. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on January 01, 2012, 10:20:32 am
Ironically Orton can cause them to miss the playoffs form both ends of the spectrums. He sucked for the Boroncos and succeeded for the Chiefs! How often has this ever happened?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 01, 2012, 05:40:35 pm
How is that an excuse? Seems pretty accurate to me. Orton was 1-4 as the starter. The worst Tebow can finish is 7-4. That's .636. Over the span of the season, it's 10-11 wins, which easily wins that division.
Thank you for proving my point.

If the Broncos fail to make the playoffs, no one will make Tebow take responsibility for three straight losses to end the season, including a home finale against a 6-9 team.  Instead, they will blame Kyle Orton.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 01, 2012, 06:43:47 pm
They won't fail to make the playoffs though. Whether they win or lose today, Oakland is getting whooped, thus your "point" is moot. At the end of the year, it was Tebow who got them where Orton couldn't- whether they backed in, bribed their way in, or whatever. End of story. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 01, 2012, 07:19:51 pm
They won't fail to make the playoffs though. Whether they win or lose today, Oakland is getting whooped, thus your "point" is moot. At the end of the year, it was Tebow who got them where Orton couldn't- whether they backed in, bribed their way in, or whatever. End of story. -EK

Just when I thought some progress had been made, you regress again. The Broncos won and lost together. Tebow happened to QB them during a streak where the defense played better and they played against teams who were not playing well for any reason.
Now the Broncos have lost three in a row going into the playoffs, and they suck against good teams this year. Teams are seeing what needs to be done to neutralize "Tebow Time".
So once again the Broncos won and lost together.
Unfortunately all the kool aid drinkers think it is only because of Tebow that they won. I guess that means all 4 losses are his fault too? He has the same amount of losses this season as Orton does.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 01, 2012, 07:24:30 pm
It's official: Tebow sucks. I was higher on him than most around here, not anymore. He is beyond terrible. He had a few good weeks but his true colors have come out the last 3 weeks. Today vs KC with the playoffs on the line, he had 60 passing yards with one INT, one fumble and was 6 for 22 passing vs one of the worst teams in the league. Coming off last weeks 3 INT, 1 fumble game vs another god awful team in Buffalo and the Tebow balloon has popped! He stinks!

Tebow had a couple nice moments in this league but Denver will never win big with him at QB. They might be a double digit home underdog next week in the playoffs. That is unheard of in the NFL.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 01, 2012, 07:26:25 pm
Sure he does, but he has 7 more wins than Orton does. Are all of the losses his fault? I can say without reservation that at least 3 of them are. He looked awful the past 3 weeks. Does that change the fact that Denver as a team felt like he was going to get them further than Orton, and actually benched Orton then cut him because they believed it so much? Nope. Doesn't change that at all. Frankly, I don't care if Tebow is the worst QB in the history of football or a Hall of Fame QB who wins 36 consecutive Super Bowls. I'm a Miami fan. I just don't understand- and never will- why people hate the guy. It reeks of shallow, bitterness and looks childish. He goes out and plays hard. If he sucks or succeeds, if he wins or loses, why does that give you, Spider, or anyone else the right to attack him, and then me? It's laughable that any of you take your opinion so seriously that you think it matters beyond this board. I've said it before- if you knew jack shit about the game in any real-life sense, you'd be employed by the NFL, CFL, or the damn Little league of America. You're not, so stop acting like your word is indisputable and you have to correct anyone who doesn't agree with you. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 01, 2012, 09:46:48 pm
EK, I would love to see you make such an impassioned plea for Colt McCoy, or Shaun Hill, or any number of mediocre journeyman QBs for other teams.  Your tireless defense of Tebow is inspiring.

And if I may respond in advance: if someone had made pages and pages of posts defending, say, Alex Smith, I would have been just as inclined to "attack" that argument, too.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 01, 2012, 10:19:44 pm
Sure he does, but he has 7 more wins than Orton does. Are all of the losses his fault? I can say without reservation that at least 3 of them are. He looked awful the past 3 weeks. Does that change the fact that Denver as a team felt like he was going to get them further than Orton, and actually benched Orton then cut him because they believed it so much? Nope. Doesn't change that at all. Frankly, I don't care if Tebow is the worst QB in the history of football or a Hall of Fame QB who wins 36 consecutive Super Bowls. I'm a Miami fan. I just don't understand- and never will- why people hate the guy. It reeks of shallow, bitterness and looks childish. He goes out and plays hard. If he sucks or succeeds, if he wins or loses, why does that give you, Spider, or anyone else the right to attack him, and then me? It's laughable that any of you take your opinion so seriously that you think it matters beyond this board. I've said it before- if you knew jack shit about the game in any real-life sense, you'd be employed by the NFL, CFL, or the damn Little league of America. You're not, so stop acting like your word is indisputable and you have to correct anyone who doesn't agree with you. -EK


And I do not understand why anyone who disagrees that Tebow is as great as the hype that is being put out there is automatically assumed to be "shallow" or a "hater".
I have said since the beginning that the whole team started playing better and showed with statistics that the defense played better at the same time this run began, therefore they were winning or losing as a team.
I have never broached the whole religious aspect like others have, but I do think he is a mostly one trick pony at this point who needs more development to justify the amazing level or hype surrounding his career so far that has generated over-the-top comparisons and comments such as " a one-in-a-million talent".


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 02, 2012, 06:59:06 am
For whatever reason, you have zeroed in on the statement "one in a million." Chew on this for a bit- instead of jumping to conclusions about what I was aaying or what you THOUGHT I meant, why didn't you ask for some clarification on that? EVERY guy in the NFL who makes it to actually start as a QB is a one in a million talent. That was my point. Not that Tebow was one out of a million QB's. If that's what I meant, I would have said it. Just to make it to the NFL, let alone play QB, you have to be the best  of the best of the best. We just passed 7 BILLION people on this planet. Yes, Tebow is a one in a million talent to get where he is; he's actually better than one in a million, but I don't really feel like doing the math. Does that make any more sense to you now? Can we move on? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 02, 2012, 07:08:47 am
EK, I would love to see you make such an impassioned plea for Colt McCoy, or Shaun Hill, or any number of mediocre journeyman QBs for other teams.  Your tireless defense of Tebow is inspiring.

And if I may respond in advance: if someone had made pages and pages of posts defending, say, Alex Smith, I would have been just as inclined to "attack" that argument, too.

Did I not take the same stance on Sanchez? And I HATE the Jets as a whole. What I hate more is people who can only attack, only be negative, only see the worst in everything. Spider, you got into an argument and attacked someone personally about their religious beliefs in another thread. WTF is so screwed up in your life that you believe it is OK to do that? Likewise, when you see a story about a Tebow (or an ALex Smith, or anyone else), why is your first and immediate reaction to tear them down? Can't you just be happy for someone's success and move on with your life? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 02, 2012, 03:28:41 pm
Did I not take the same stance on Sanchez?
Notably, you were bashing Sanchez at the time this thread was started.  But then when it was pointed out to you that it was contradictory for you to bash Sanchez at the same time you were praising Tebow, miraculously you discarded the 2+ years of tape you had seen on Sanchez and decided that He, Too, Is Now Good.

A swift change of your stated position on another player when it conflicted with your pro-Tebow stance is hardly a good example to pick.

Quote
Spider, you got into an argument and attacked someone personally about their religious beliefs in another thread. WTF is so screwed up in your life that you believe it is OK to do that?
Try to stay on topic, champ.  If you want to talk about religious beliefs, try going to that thread and posting in it.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 02, 2012, 03:31:45 pm
Stay on topic? The way you continued this argument in the Jets-Dolphins thread? Let's add hypocrite to your list of faults. Get this straight about Sanchez: I said he is NOT playing the worst season of his career. By the stats, it's his best season. Nothing more was said. The best season of a bad quarterback still makes him a bad quarterback. Which is exactly what I said. Your sad attemots to put words in my mouth are not winning you any debates. Your desire to be "right" at my expense has led you to continuously change the argument to suit your point of view, or blantantly make up things that I never said. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 02, 2012, 07:39:10 pm
Stay on topic? The way you continued this argument in the Jets-Dolphins thread?
In a thread discussing Mark Sanchez, your newfound motivation for defending him is on topic.

Quote
Get this straight about Sanchez: I said he is NOT playing the worst season of his career.
I can see why you would have trouble keeping track of what you said.  Let me help you out:

"[Sanchez] has been on some teams that have done those things, but acting like he won the damn games for them is like saying Brad Johnson "won" the Super Bowl for the Bucs in Super Bowl XXXVII. He- and Sanchez- are merely along for the ride." - 10/6/11 (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19141.msg242374/topicseen.html#msg242374)

"This is why I would- after ALL the crap that's been slung about him- still have Henne over Sanchez." - 11/15/11 (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19401.msg246329/topicseen.html#msg246329)

"I'm man enough to admit I was wrong about Sanchez." - 12/13/11 (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php/topic,19299.msg248777.html#msg248777)

So after two years of tape on him, you conveniently decide that you "were wrong about Sanchez" in the middle of a Tebow discussion.  Yet at the time you made your last Sanchez-bashing comment here (11/15), he was already on pace to set a career high for completions, completion %, yardage, and TDs (as well as a lower INT % than what he actually ended up with).  But somehow, this "he's having his best year ever!" angle did not seem to occur to you until you had to figure out a reason to rationalize your change of heart.

I eagerly await your explanation of why, when Sanchez was already on a career-record pace on 11/15, you thought he "sucked" then, but somehow mysteriously changed your mind about him 4 games later when such a position became inconvenient in your efforts to defend Tim Tebow.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 02, 2012, 08:15:38 pm
Oh, and while we are on the subject of things that you said:

Get this straight about Sanchez: I said he is NOT playing the worst season of his career. By the stats, it's his best season. Nothing more was said. The best season of a bad quarterback still makes him a bad quarterback. Which is exactly what I said.

[regarding Sanchez vs. Tebow]
Seriously are you blind or just dense? I actually posted that they are basically the same player like six posts ago?
So then, Sanchez and Tebow are "basically the same player," and Sanchez is "a bad quarterback."  I wonder what this says about Tim Tebow?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on January 02, 2012, 08:23:10 pm
but Tebow just knows how to win... or something...


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: jtex316 on January 03, 2012, 08:55:48 am
^ Tebow is 0-3 this season against playoff teams, and 0-3 in the last 3 weeks (from 8-5 and a sure-fire lock for the post-season to 8-8 and eeking in on a 3rd tie-braker).

I'm so happy that the Broncos are now losing - because the only argument any Tebow supporter had to defend his miserable quarterbacking was "Well...he's a winner". No, he's not a winner. He sucks - and when it mattered most at the end of the season, he choked it off big time.

It's a travashamockery that Tebow and the Broncos are in the playoffs. They are terrible, the AFC West is atrocious. Pittsburgh is going to massacre Tebow. You thought 6/22 with a fumble and 60 yards passing was bad? This might be the worst QB'ed game in league history.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 03, 2012, 05:38:54 pm
^ Tebow is 0-3 this season against playoff teams, and 0-3 in the last 3 weeks (from 8-5 and a sure-fire lock for the post-season to 8-8 and eeking in on a 3rd tie-braker).

I'm so happy that the Broncos are now losing - because the only argument any Tebow supporter had to defend his miserable quarterbacking was "Well...he's a winner". No, he's not a winner. He sucks - and when it mattered most at the end of the season, he choked it off big time.

It's a travashamockery that Tebow and the Broncos are in the playoffs. They are terrible, the AFC West is atrocious. Pittsburgh is going to massacre Tebow. You thought 6/22 with a fumble and 60 yards passing was bad? This might be the worst QB'ed game in league history.

but he is a one in a million talent and a Top 10 NFL QB this year when you count the injuries....LOL LOL


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 06, 2012, 07:19:42 pm
Brady Quinn getting HALF (yes HALF) the 1st team snaps this week in practice.  Before a playoff game! WOW! Unheard of!! Looks like the coaches have little faith in Tebow at this point.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 06, 2012, 10:05:08 pm
Brady Quinn getting HALF (yes HALF) the 1st team snaps this week in practice.  Before a playoff game! WOW! Unheard of!! Looks like the coaches have little faith in Tebow at this point.

That Steelers defense is gonna eat him alive.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 07, 2012, 12:25:07 am
If Fox is smart, he will let Tebow play the entire game.

Brady Quinn is not going to take you anywhere anyway.  Best to take your Tebow medicine and get the media monkey off your back; if Tebow has an epic stinker, Fox may be allowed to bring in a decent QB to compete for the starting job next year.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 07, 2012, 03:46:02 am
I thought what Ben had to say about the whole Tebow hype was spot on. He felt bad for Tebow. People are saying it is Tebow against the Steelers, and it is the Broncos vs the Steelers,


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 07, 2012, 06:44:14 am
If Fox is smart, he will let Tebow play the entire game.

Brady Quinn is not going to take you anywhere anyway.  Best to take your Tebow medicine and get the media monkey off your back; if Tebow has an epic stinker, Fox may be allowed to bring in a decent QB to compete for the starting job next year.

I agree with this. Let Tebow sink or swim. And if he throws out another god awful performance then you have no problem moving on from him in 2012 and this offseason.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on January 07, 2012, 07:18:01 am
Brady Quinn getting HALF (yes HALF) the 1st team snaps this week in practice.  Before a playoff game! WOW! Unheard of!! Looks like the coaches have little faith in Tebow at this point.

Tebow emphatically denied this. He said he usually gets a few snaps during the week and that's all he got this week.

What's more interesting is that he's been throwing with receivers after practice.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 07, 2012, 07:58:58 am
Tebow emphatically denied this. He said he usually gets a few snaps during the week and that's all he got this week.

What's more interesting is that he's been throwing with receivers after practice.

Yeah and Quinn denied it to to Jeff Darlington, but then it leaked out last night the Broncos have specific packages for Quinn this week on 2nd and 3rd and long situations and he has gotten half the snaps this week in practice no matter what Quinn is saying. They just don't want Pitt to know that and that is why they are denying the reports. Trying to catch Pitt off guard. Which I get, but everyone around the Broncos team is saying Quinn got half the snaps this week.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Pappy13 on January 07, 2012, 11:23:26 am
If Fox is smart, he will let Tebow play the entire game.

Brady Quinn is not going to take you anywhere anyway.  Best to take your Tebow medicine and get the media monkey off your back; if Tebow has an epic stinker, Fox may be allowed to bring in a decent QB to compete for the starting job next year.
In a playoff game? Fox would get roasted for not putting in Quinn. You can't "take your medicine" in a playoff game, you just can't.

Here's what I do. I tell Quinn you got the 1st half to show me. If you are playing poorly, don't be surprised I pull you to give Quinn a shot, but Quinn will only have about a quarter to turn things around. If he's not playing well by the 4th quarter, you're coming back in to try your 4th quarter magic.  And then you stick to that plan.

That's giving your team the best possible shot to win the game while still giving Tebow every oppportunity to win the game for you.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 07, 2012, 04:51:19 pm
Nice, if any of it was true. It isn't though. Team sources beyond Quinn himself deny the report.

"Three Broncos team sources, however, said Quinn has not received any more practice reps than usual — which isn't many.

"The backup quarterback always gets reps," said a team source. ""It's no different this week. It's normal for the backup quarterback to get a few reps."

Quinn received zero reps — zero — during the first team's pivotal game-plan installation Wednesday, according to a team source. He took two first-team reps Friday — which isn't unusual."



Read more: Broncos' Brady Quinn routine normal despite Tebow's struggles - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_19690080#ixzz1ioO0LcRT
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

From ESPN: "ESPN’s Ed Werder reported Friday that Quinn has received a few more repetitions in practice this week than unusual. Werder reported that Quinn has had eight repetitions with the first-team offense in practice this week. He usually gets two reps with the starters. Thus, that minimal amount doesn’t necessarily translate into Denver pressing Quinn into action." 

That hardly equals HALF the first team reps. From what I've read from multiple sources, and what has not been denied by anyone (like Quinn himself) is that the team MAY use him in certain third and long situations, if the situation "is desperate." -EK
 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 07, 2012, 06:24:00 pm
In a playoff game? Fox would get roasted for not putting in Quinn.
John Fox is going to get "roasted" for... not putting in Brady Quinn?  Think about what you just said.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on January 07, 2012, 07:47:11 pm
then it leaked out last night the Broncos have specific packages for Quinn this week

Quinn said in his denial that they would practice specific packages just for him leading up to EVERY game. So nothing new here either.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 07, 2012, 07:50:41 pm
Quinn said in his denial that they would practice specific packages just for him leading up to EVERY game. So nothing new here either.

Total BS. Don't believe Quinn for a minute. Everyone reporting this can't be wrong. No "back-up" gets that many snaps with the 1st team in a week of a playoff game with a healthy starter.

Quinn is lying.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Pappy13 on January 07, 2012, 08:54:21 pm
John Fox is going to get "roasted" for... not putting in Brady Quinn?  Think about what you just said.
IF Tebow is playing horrible and giving them no chance to win, yes. If Tebow is playing decent or the game is close because your defense is keeping you in the game, than of course you stick with Tebow and hope he can pull it out, but if not and you're down by a couple scores and you have to pass to get back in the game, then you have got to try something else. You can't just keep sticking Tebow out there and say "Well we gave him a shot and you see, we LOST." You WILL be destroyed in the press. You can do that in the regular season, but not in the playoffs. You have to try to win no matter what you have to do.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 07, 2012, 10:28:53 pm
Total BS. Don't believe Quinn for a minute. Everyone reporting this can't be wrong. No "back-up" gets that many snaps with the 1st team in a week of a playoff game with a healthy starter.

Quinn is lying.

Who is "everyone." EVERYONE I've read says the story is untrue, "leaked" by one person. I linked two sources refuting the entire thing; neither was Quinn. Obviously "everyone" is not reporting your story. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 07, 2012, 10:33:27 pm
Who is "everyone." EVERYONE I've read says the story is untrue, "leaked" by one person. I linked two sources refuting the entire thing; neither was Quinn. Obviously "everyone" is not reporting your story. -EK

Look who came back to the thread. Been a few days. Spider asked you a question the other day you have yet to answer. So before I answer YOUR questions I would like you to answer his!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 08, 2012, 02:13:15 am
EKnight, if, according to you:

- Sanchez's best season "still makes him a bad quarterback," and
- Sanchez and Tebow are "basically the same player"

...does this not mean that Tebow is a bad quarterback?  Please do explain.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 08, 2012, 08:16:08 am
Very nice. Stay classy guys. Mike "reporting" things that are true, and yes, Spider, over the past three games, Tebow has been beyond horrible. I already answered this when BSmooth asked me, but I will repeat it- I gave him massive credit for all the wins, and full blame for all three losses. Now, Mike, about your "everyone" report? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 08, 2012, 01:21:41 pm
Very nice. Stay classy guys. Mike "reporting" things that are true, and yes, Spider, over the past three games, Tebow has been beyond horrible. I already answered this when BSmooth asked me, but I will repeat it- I gave him massive credit for all the wins, and full blame for all three losses. Now, Mike, about your "everyone" report? -EK

1) I am not "reporting" anything I am citing reports in the media by professionals. Big difference.

2) I stand by my posts and what I said in them.

Have a nice day!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 08, 2012, 03:02:07 pm
If I was the coach of Denver, I would be the leak that Quinn was getting reps. 

The Quinn offense and the Tebow offense are totally different.  Make the Steelers prep for both. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 08, 2012, 03:42:33 pm
1) I am not "reporting" anything I am citing reports in the media by professionals. Big difference.

2) I stand by my posts and what I said in them.

Have a nice day!

Which media professionals constitute "everyone?" Your exact choice of words was everyone, and I pointed out at least two sources (two of many) saying otherwise. ONE wrong report does not a story make, no matter how much you want it to. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on January 08, 2012, 06:04:36 pm
Interesting strategy by Pittsburgh in deciding not to cover receivers. Unfortunately for them, Tebow CAN hit wide open receivers.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 08, 2012, 08:04:42 pm
Interesting strategy by Pittsburgh in deciding not to cover receivers. Unfortunately for them, Tebow CAN hit wide open receivers.

Especially Thomas. Another huge day for him so far. Broncos D has 5 sacks, 1 Int and 1 FF.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 08, 2012, 08:10:06 pm
Tebow played like garbage in the 2nd half to lull Pitt into a sense of confidence so he could win it in OT on a pass!! LOL LOL

Best pass by Tebow since before halftime, and Thomas did all the work with a outstanding run!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Thundergod on January 08, 2012, 08:12:25 pm
Fuckin AWESOME! F the Steelers! Go Broncoooos! Beautiful throw Tebow!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: raptorsfan29 on January 08, 2012, 08:14:40 pm
Fuckin AWESOME! F the Steelers! Go Broncoooos! Beautiful throw Tebow!

Don't really see this as a positive, the Fucking pats are going to win next week easily. Well i guess Baltimore will knock them out the week after. Something to look forward to i guess.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 08, 2012, 08:16:31 pm
At this point I don't care if the Pats win or not. Tebow put up 316 yards against the big bad Steelers D, beat them like a little bitch the entire second quarter, won the game and I couldn't be happier. Haters keep hating. BTW, how'd that whole Brady Quinn thing work out? -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 08, 2012, 08:16:39 pm
Don't really see this as a positive, the Fucking pats are going to win next week easily. Well i guess Baltimore will knock them out the week after. Something to look forward to i guess.

Vegas just opened up with the Pats -13 vs the Broncos. That's a big number.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on January 08, 2012, 08:20:05 pm
Tebow played well.  Still, weird numbers.  31 yard average per pass.  Crazy.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 08, 2012, 08:21:30 pm
Tebow threw for 3:16 yards   ha ha ha


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 08, 2012, 08:21:50 pm
Tebow played well.  Still, weird numbers.  31 yard average per pass.  Crazy.

Thomas averaged over 50yds a catch, insane. Was anyone covering him??


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 08, 2012, 08:25:23 pm
Tebow only completed 10 passes. 4 more than last week. People will analyze this playoff game for years and never understand it. Pretty much you ain't beating Tebow when it comes to "hail marys" is what it says.


Next week: Josh McDaniels in NEW ENGLAND vs the 2 guys he drafted. Tebow/Thomas! Hollywood couldn't write a better script


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 08, 2012, 08:38:49 pm
Mike "reporting" things that are true, and yes, Spider, over the past three games, Tebow has been beyond horrible. I already answered this when BSmooth asked me, but I will repeat it- I gave him massive credit for all the wins, and full blame for all three losses.
That's not answering the question.

You said that Sanchez, despite his best season (<--- this word is important) ever, is still a bad quarterback.
You also said that Sanchez and Tebow are basically the same player.
The logical conclusion is that you are saying that Tebow is a bad quarterback.

Why are you trying to couch your statement in terms of "Tebow had some bad games"?  Is Tebow a bad quarterback, or not?  This is a straightforward question.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Thundergod on January 08, 2012, 08:59:41 pm
Don't really see this as a positive, the Fucking pats are going to win next week easily. Well i guess Baltimore will knock them out the week after. Something to look forward to i guess.

Positive in my book, I can't stand Pittsburgh. And yes, I'm sure the fucking Pats are gonna win easily. Don't care either way. The Steelers and their VAUNTED D are out.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: dolphins4life on January 08, 2012, 10:03:10 pm
No TOs, 2 TD passes, and 1 TD rush in a playoff game.  Sounds elite to me.  Hopefully he can beat the Patriots next week.  I'll be rooting for the Broncos to win.     


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on January 08, 2012, 10:21:32 pm
Tebow threw for 3:16 yards   ha ha ha
You can't write this stuff. I hope they find a way to win next week just to see everyone implode. Even at halftime today everyone still thought the Steelers would win.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 09, 2012, 06:52:17 am
I also said that like a month and a half ago. Things change. Despite your views on the subject, I am actually allowed to change my views based on what I see on the field. Either way, it doesn't matter. Responding in the way you did, after the game Tebow just had shows that you have nothing else you can say about the guy and you're desperately trying to say something- anything- to save face. Spider, it's over. Let it go. He made you and everyone who said anything negative about him look ridiculous last night. Take your wounded and go. You lost. I'm done engaging you. Ask as many "straight-forward questions" as you want. Your primary point of view in this thread was Tebow sucks. Mine was that he doesn't. I could give two shits about anything else you have to say after watching last night's game. I've never seen someone proven so wrong. Thanks for playing though. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 09, 2012, 09:20:47 am
Thomas averaged over 50yds a catch, insane. Was anyone covering him??

No.  That is what a lot of people miss about Tebow's strength. 

Because of the risk that he posseses as a runningback defenses can't do all three:

1) cover the WR effectively
2) defend the run
3) rush the passer

Defenses can do two of the three but not all three.

Big test for Tebow will be next year not next week.

During the off-season the 13 teams that will play Denver next year are going to carefully study what he did this year, and how teams have successfully defended the option in college and the past.  Not something they had time to do in a week of prep for game day.  Then they will practice those plays during training camp and preseason.  If Tebow can be successful with it under those situations -- then Denver has a very good QB.  It was the same open question with the wildcat and Miami after 2008.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on January 09, 2012, 09:50:07 am
An amusing article from the LA Times ....
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2012/01/tim-tebow-delivers-john-316-message-without-saying-a-word.html

Tim Tebow delivers John 3:16 message without saying a word
January 9, 2012 |  6:30 am    0


Has Tim Tebow made a believer out of you yet? Relax, I'm talking as a football player.

Much fun has been made about Tim Tebow's devotion to Christianity. Some people complain that the Denver Broncos quarterback mentions God and Jesus too much. But even when he remains silent on the issue, Tebow gets his message across. Just take a look at a couple of items from Sunday's 29-23 overtime victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers.

1. He passed for 316 yards against the Steelers.

Which brings to mind perhaps the most famous Bible verse of all, John 3:16. Who needs a rainbow-haired guy holding up a John 3:16 sign when you have Tebow?

2. Tebow set an NFL playoff record with 31.6 yards per completion.

31.6? John 3:16? Stop, it's getting spooky now.

3. His favorite receiver Sunday was Demaryius Thomas.

Thomas had 204 receiving yards and was responsible for the game-winning touchdown in overtime. And when was Thomas born? Christmas Day, 1987. Hmmm, what notable religious figure was born on Christmas Day? (The answer is not Santa Claus).

So, you may be able to silence Tim Tebow, but you can't contain him. Somehow, some way, he will get his message across.

It's Tim Tebow's world, and we are just living in it.
[/b]


Tebow and the Broncos win in unexplainable ways. They win just enough to get into the playoffs. No more. No less. The 3:16 message is being talked about as much as ever without him even speaking it and his favorite reciever was born on Christmas Day. The day chosen to honor the birth of the 3:16 savior.

I know everyone is writing them off, and for seemingly logical reasons, but at some point even the most critical person has to say ... I have no prediction when it comes to Tebow.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Frimp on January 09, 2012, 09:58:36 am
Tebow didn't like the new OT rules, so he said 'Let there be pass" and there was a pass. Then he said "Let there be running" and there was running. Then he said "Let there be score!" AND THEY SCORED!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 09, 2012, 10:40:33 am
Haters check list is getting shorter.

Will never win a bowl game.
Will never win the Heisman.
Will never be drafted.
Will never start.
Can't throw a long pass.
Will never win a game.
Will never win a play off game.


I hope they are right about him not winnng a road playoff game. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Frimp on January 09, 2012, 10:44:35 am
^^^

Not me. ;)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: CF DolFan on January 09, 2012, 10:52:44 am
Haters check list is getting shorter.

Will never win a bowl game.
Will never win the Heisman.
Will never be drafted.
Will never start.
Can't throw a long pass.
Will never win a game.
Will never win a play off game.


I hope they are right about him not winnng a road playoff game. 

It doesn't matter. At whatever point he fails will be the spot people say "I told you so." about him. If he were to win a Super Bowl they would want better stats and more Super Bowls. It will never end beacause of what he represents.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 09, 2012, 10:55:30 am
3. His favorite receiver Sunday was Demaryius Thomas.

Thomas had 204 receiving yards and was responsible for the game-winning touchdown in overtime. And when was Thomas born? Christmas Day, 1987. Hmmm, what notable religious figure was born on Christmas Day? (The answer is not Santa Claus).


Baldwin of Boulogne


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 09, 2012, 11:48:57 am
I also said that like a month and a half ago. Things change. Despite your views on the subject, I am actually allowed to change my views based on what I see on the field.
So despite Sanchez having his best season (after already having won FOUR road playoff games!), now that Tebow has won one home playoff game in overtime, he has suddenly distanced himself from Sanchez?

Quote
Spider, it's over. Let it go. He made you and everyone who said anything negative about him look ridiculous last night. Take your wounded and go. You lost. I'm done engaging you. Ask as many "straight-forward questions" as you want. Your primary point of view in this thread was Tebow sucks. Mine was that he doesn't. I could give two shits about anything else you have to say after watching last night's game. I've never seen someone proven so wrong.
It seems that your evaluation of Tebow hinges entirely on "what did he do in the last game?"  I mean, first you say he's top two ten, then he's "basically the same" as a bad quarterback after a three-game losing streak, and now after one win, you have "never seen someone proven so wrong"?

Try having some consistency, for a change.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 09, 2012, 11:50:48 am
It doesn't matter. At whatever point he fails will be the spot people say "I told you so." about him. If he were to win a Super Bowl they would want better stats and more Super Bowls. It will never end beacause of what he represents.
And likewise, no matter how he fails, Tebow will be propped up until the bitter end, for exactly the same reason: because of what he represents.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 09, 2012, 12:03:02 pm
It doesn't matter. At whatever point he fails will be the spot people say "I told you so." about him. If he were to win a Super Bowl they would want better stats and more Super Bowls. It will never end beacause of what he represents.


Sad but true. But for today anyway, there's a boatload of people eating crow. Let's revist, shall we?

Tim Tebow sucks.

Big time.

He will NEVER be a viable NFL QB.


Except when he torches the best pass defense in the league, extends plays to the tune of 50 rushing yards additionally, and wins not because of Denver's running game (McGahee's fumble and only 61 yards) or the defense (yes 5 sacks, but gave up 17 points and the lead in the second half).
Hot steaming garbage...with the faint aroma of broccoli and third world foreskins.



Sniff, sniff...smells like winning to me.

Unfortunately, he can't throw a football, the one main job of a quarterback.  You just can't overcome a lack of talent in that one specific area.

He dropped the TD pass to Royal in a window the size of a bread basket. There's a lot of NFL QB's that would struggle making that throw with the coverage as tight as it was.

He won't get wins.  You'll see.  He will be garbage and something that I will "I told you so" forever.

He played like crap against our pathetic team.  ...that's how pathetic he is.

Forever? Or just until now?

Luck is temporary.  Good is consistent.  

You may win 1 game on luck in the NFL.  Maybe 2 games.  But you have to have skill to win consistently.

The thing I don't understand is why so many people keep talking about this guy.  

8-4 this year. Is he consistent yet?

Turn that around... If (or when) Tebow still looks like a horrifically untalented passer at the end of the season and Denver has a record of 4-12 or 5-11 (I just checked the schedule...Denver doesn't play Miami again), will all the people who have ignored his lack of QB talent in order to focus on his "leadership-morals-swell guy-college hero" come up here and admit they were wrong?

Not 4-12; not 5-11. Will you "come up here and admit you were wrong" now?

Nothing is wrong with it and he wins games. Can't deny that. But Week 1 next year no way Tebow is starting in Denver. Not a chance. It's a gimmick offense (like year 1 of the Wildcat in Miami)......come year 2 teams will be able to stop it.

There's NO chance someone other than Tebow starts for them in week one next year.

His stats show no promise as a QB. They show an ability to run the ball well.

His stats looked just fine to me.

The Broncos need every possible divine intervention that you can think of in order to win with Tebow as their QB:

- Moses splitting the red-sea
- Jesus performing miracles, turning water into wine
- Virgin births
- Re-incarnations
- David Tyree / Franco Harris-like catches
- Tom Brady "Tuck Rule"-like breaks
- Extra downs (like in that Michigan game some years back)
- Officials botching coin-flips (like Lions / Steelers on Thanksgiving)

...and all of this might still not be enough to win.

Oddly, they seemed to have quite a few interventions against them yesterday. The bad call on the backward pass and the missed facemask on Tebow immediately come to mind.

Brady Quinn getting HALF (yes HALF) the 1st team snaps this week in practice.  Before a playoff game! WOW! Unheard of!! Looks like the coaches have little faith in Tebow at this point.

I missed Quinn taking snaps in the game. Must have been making food or something....wait- he didn't play? I thought he was taking all those practice reps?

That Steelers defense is gonna eat him alive.

He...nah, this one is too easy...next....

Tebow still sucks. Please stop with the "all he does is win" bullshit, because he is now 6-3 as a starter (not 4-1) and 6-3 as a starter is nothing to write home about. Stop saying "he's a winner" because he hasn't done shit yet in this league. Stop saying he has "values" and he's a "team leader" and he's a "team player", because the NFL has a lot of those guys. Stop it.

Start using your brains, people. Tebow still sucks. He's never going to win a Super Bowl, his team will never be that great, and he will never ever ever be a good NFL QB. He's a back-up QB on a shitty team playing against other shitty teams. So far this season, the Dolphins, the Chiefs, and the Jets all are mediocre or worse. The one good team, the Lions, completely killed him. You can't win a Super Bowl or a playoff game if you can only beat the shitty teams like the Dolphins.

Tim Tebow is still garbage, and just like the Wildcat fad of the 2008 season and the Michael Vick love fest of 2010, once teams start to game-plan for it, it's over.

Get it through your thick christian heads.

My head must be thicker than most. I swear he won a playoff game yesterday. I was SURE he beat a team that went to the Super Bowl last year, but they must have been "shitty" too, as you said. I'm glad all of you guys were here to straighten me out on this. Never ever ever be a good NFL QB is pretty harsh, but clearly, I've been wrong all year.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VHJtgDJ2Y3I/TUHrAw33QoI/AAAAAAAAFVo/xL4ajyO5pLQ/s1600/EatCrow.gif)


Absolutely don't care AT ALL if he goes 0-20, throws 10 INTs and fumbles 17 times against the Pats. Win or lose next week, he has proven that he deserves to be the starter this year and going forward.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 09, 2012, 12:09:23 pm
If Tebow has a good game, it proves that all the haters were wrong and should shut up forever while they eat their crow.

HOWEVER

If Tebow has a bad game, it's meaningless and doesn't prove anything at all because we've already seen enough.

Got it.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Pappy13 on January 09, 2012, 12:15:42 pm
Baldwin of Boulogne
Oh, I thought it was Saint Nicholas. :)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on January 09, 2012, 02:07:24 pm
I have to eat some crow.  He's definitely progressed more than I expected.

However, I still don't think he's a good passer.  He's able to extend plays.  I stand by the idea that I don't think his play style is indicitive of long term success.  His success this year is very circumstantial.  An 8-8 team having a home playoff game, after several remarkable last second comebacks and crazy plays.

Honestly, I'm not surprised Denver beat Pitt.  Denver has a good defense, and that can keep you in games.  Tebow played well, too...his best game yet, making the most of his opportunities.  In other years, though (even the way they're playing), they're a sub .500 team.  Depending on 30+ yards per completion and 10 completions a game (in your best game) is just not a viable long-term strategy.  These aren't excuses.  It's just reality.  How the Broncos play from game to game is irrelevant.  Over the long-term, this kind of stuff fades and you'll have to depend on a QB to make consistantly good throws.  I don't believe that Tebow has that skill.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 09, 2012, 03:34:00 pm
Best line I have seen.....

Quote

Tim Tebow Is The Most Famous White Bronco Since OJ's Truck!




Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 09, 2012, 06:00:24 pm
If Tebow has a good game, it proves that all the haters were wrong and should shut up forever while they eat their crow.

HOWEVER

If Tebow has a bad game, it's meaningless and doesn't prove anything at all because we've already seen enough.

Got it.

Exactly, that's what the Tebow Jock Sniffers cling too. That type of logic.

At 8am yesterday Tebow was "beyond horrible" as someone stated and the reason for 3 straight losses.....he completes 10 passes and his team wins and now that same person is on the he is great again bandwagon...LOL

Next week when he completes 5 passes and the Broncos lose he will be distancing himself from these statements. It changes like the wind
You can't make this stuf fup!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 09, 2012, 06:02:20 pm
I have to eat some crow.  He's definitely progressed more than I expected.

However, I still don't think he's a good passer.  He's able to extend plays.  I stand by the idea that I don't think his play style is indicitive of long term success.  His success this year is very circumstantial.  An 8-8 team having a home playoff game, after several remarkable last second comebacks and crazy plays.

Honestly, I'm not surprised Denver beat Pitt.  Denver has a good defense, and that can keep you in games.  Tebow played well, too...his best game yet, making the most of his opportunities.  In other years, though (even the way they're playing), they're a sub .500 team.  Depending on 30+ yards per completion and 10 completions a game (in your best game) is just not a viable long-term strategy.  These aren't excuses.  It's just reality.  How the Broncos play from game to game is irrelevant.  Over the long-term, this kind of stuff fades and you'll have to depend on a QB to make consistantly good throws.  I don't believe that Tebow has that skill.

It wasn't his best game (look at the Minny game for that) but it wasn't his worst either. I mean 10-21 is not a good game. And Thomas bailed him out on some of those passes.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 09, 2012, 06:51:58 pm
An amusing article from the LA Times ....
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2012/01/tim-tebow-delivers-john-316-message-without-saying-a-word.html

Tim Tebow delivers John 3:16 message without saying a word
January 9, 2012 |  6:30 am    0


Has Tim Tebow made a believer out of you yet? Relax, I'm talking as a football player.

Much fun has been made about Tim Tebow's devotion to Christianity. Some people complain that the Denver Broncos quarterback mentions God and Jesus too much. But even when he remains silent on the issue, Tebow gets his message across. Just take a look at a couple of items from Sunday's 29-23 overtime victory over the Pittsburgh Steelers.

1. He passed for 316 yards against the Steelers.

Which brings to mind perhaps the most famous Bible verse of all, John 3:16. Who needs a rainbow-haired guy holding up a John 3:16 sign when you have Tebow?

2. Tebow set an NFL playoff record with 31.6 yards per completion.

31.6? John 3:16? Stop, it's getting spooky now.

3. His favorite receiver Sunday was Demaryius Thomas.

Thomas had 204 receiving yards and was responsible for the game-winning touchdown in overtime. And when was Thomas born? Christmas Day, 1987. Hmmm, what notable religious figure was born on Christmas Day? (The answer is not Santa Claus).

So, you may be able to silence Tim Tebow, but you can't contain him. Somehow, some way, he will get his message across.

It's Tim Tebow's world, and we are just living in it.
[/b]


Tebow and the Broncos win in unexplainable ways. They win just enough to get into the playoffs. No more. No less. The 3:16 message is being talked about as much as ever without him even speaking it and his favorite reciever was born on Christmas Day. The day chosen to honor the birth of the 3:16 savior.

I know everyone is writing them off, and for seemingly logical reasons, but at some point even the most critical person has to say ... I have no prediction when it comes to Tebow.


Here is some more I got off of another forum (have not verfied accuracy)

Broncos head coach name: John (Fox)
Broncos Executive Vice President of Operations name: John (Elway)
Steelers time of possession: 31:06
Tebow passing yards: 316
Tebow YPC: 3.16
Tebow threw 10 completions in the game. 10 books after the book of John (in the Bible) is the book of Tim.
Tebow had 21 pass attempts in the game. 21 chapters in the book John.
Demaryius Thomas's birthday is December 25th.
Ben threw for an INT on 3 and 16


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 09, 2012, 06:59:18 pm
This one I found myself.....

Opposing teams completed 333 passes against Denver this year (regular season)

So combined the opposing QBs threw and the WR caught passes 666 times.   >:D

Edit: another

Tim Tebow rushed for 660 yards and 6 TDs.  660 + 6 = 666


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 09, 2012, 07:21:29 pm
So Tebow is suddenly great for having a ridiculous day, but Thomas who racked up 204 of Tebow's 316 yards on a mere four catches is not the hero? That means without Thomas Tebow had six completions for a whopping 112 yds and no TD's passing.
Also that defense you talk bad about EK had 5 more sacks than the Steelers and they came up with 2 sacks and a FF on the last drive of the game to keep the Steelers out of FG range. That sounds fairly clutch to me.
So it sounds as if the Broncos won as a team again, and not just because of one guy.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 09, 2012, 07:29:49 pm
Sure BSMooth.... every major sports media outlet that is saying he had the game of his life, absolutely crushed the number one ranked passing defense in the league, and did what almost no one said he could, they're all wrong and you're right. Chew on this for a bit- the defense gave up 17 points in the second half and couldn't stop the Steelers for most of that time, resulting in Pittsburgh tying the game. And yes, Thomas had a ridiculous game. But who threw the ball to him? Even if you give him credit for all 80 of those yards on the last play, what about the three other receptions he had? Tebow had 3 other passes go for over 40 yards- through the air, not from stiff arms or great jukes. Guess that's somehow all Thomas and none of it is Tebow huh? There may be 11 other games that, in spite of W or L, you could find fault with Tebow or say the team carried him. Yesterday's game is not the same deal. He had the highest total QB rating in a playoff game since the stat was invented against the number one pass D in the league. Arguing that he had a bad game or that someone else deserves credit for that is insane. Look, I get it- you don't like the guy because he has convictions and that somehow offends you. Whatever; fine. Hate him for all I care. But he played the best game of any QB against the Steelers this year, and you're grasping at straws trying to diminish that. Show me a QB who had a better game against them than he did. There was a reason they were the number one pass D. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 09, 2012, 08:14:25 pm
. Show me a QB who had a better game against them than he did. There was a reason they were the number one pass D. -EK

Kevin Kolb went for 278 and 2 TD's against Pitt.....in regulation. no overtime needed for those stats

Flacco went for 300 and 2 TD's vs Pitt too, once again....NO overtime needed.

Just sayin! And that #1 pass defense take with a grain of salt. They had games vs Tyler Palko, Kerry Collins, 2 vs McCoy, and Kellen Clemens to "pad" their stats in that area. They caught a lot of breaks playing terrible QB's this year with their schedule and "injuries" to oppenents starters


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 09, 2012, 08:15:42 pm
But he played the best game of any QB against the Steelers this year, and you're grasping at straws trying to diminish that. Show me a QB who had a better game against them than he did.
Joe Flacco in week 1.

In 4 quarters of play, he was 17/29, 224yds, 3 TD, 0 INT.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 09, 2012, 08:15:52 pm
Did Montana make Rice or vice versa? Did Tebow make Thomas better yesterday or vice versa? In all the hype to prop up Tebow, everyone forgets that other people on the team also have to perform.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 09, 2012, 09:07:29 pm
Really? I'm honestly shocked that Flacco played that well against them. Having said that, 316>224, 3TDs=3TDs, 50>0. I don't see how Flacco (with more offensive plays, even without the OT) passing for less yards, rushing for less yards, and totaling the same number of TDs is "better." -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Guru-In-Vegas on January 10, 2012, 12:10:12 am
Did Montana make Rice or vice versa? Did Tebow make Thomas better yesterday or vice versa? In all the hype to prop up Tebow, everyone forgets that other people on the team also have to perform.

Right!?  No wait ... Tebow thanked Jesus for catching that pass for him.  For blocking for him.  For stopping opposing offenses.  JC is a helluva player!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 10, 2012, 08:58:16 am
Tebow made himself $25 million in advertisements with that one pass in OT.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: bsmooth on January 10, 2012, 06:37:25 pm
He also set the twitter record


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 10, 2012, 07:21:42 pm
Really? I'm honestly shocked that Flacco played that well against them. Having said that, 316>224, 3TDs=3TDs, 50>0. I don't see how Flacco (with more offensive plays, even without the OT) passing for less yards, rushing for less yards, and totaling the same number of TDs is "better." -EK
What were Tebow's stats through 4 quarters, again?

You're punishing Flacco because he played well enough to win the game without going to OT.  Give him a 5th quarter and I'm sure he could have padded his statistics more.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 10, 2012, 07:37:12 pm
Who's punishing anybody? Tebow had more passing and rushing yards and equal TDs; he also had a better QB rating. In what world does that make Flacco the better QB between these two games? CF is right- you guys are ridiculous. Tebow could win the Superbowl and you'd still find something to bitch about. All year long all I heard was how he couldn't throw, and he torched the Steelers, but you're still bitching. Enough already. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 10, 2012, 08:04:27 pm
Who's punishing anybody? Tebow had more passing and rushing yards and equal TDs; he also had a better QB rating. In what world does that make Flacco the better QB between these two games? CF is right- you guys are ridiculous. Tebow could win the Superbowl and you'd still find something to bitch about. All year long all I heard was how he couldn't throw, and he torched the Steelers, but you're still bitching. Enough already. -EK

Funny how you went into hiding the previous 3 weeks when Tebow was beyond horrible vs bad defenses and were nowhere to be found on this topic. Then all of a sudden you show up pumping your chest after Tebow plays one decent game. My god. You are analyzing these numbers like it was the greatest game ever played by a QB. It's like nobody has ever thrown for 300 yards before.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 10, 2012, 08:46:46 pm
3 weeks? Really? Damn, not only are you too stubborn to know when to shut up, you're apparently so bad at math, you don't know the difference between 3 weeks and 4 days. BTW, how'd that whole Brady Quinn thing work out? Oh, right... -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 10, 2012, 09:15:54 pm
Who's punishing anybody? Tebow had more passing and rushing yards and equal TDs; he also had a better QB rating.
Not through four quarters, he didn't.  Flacco didn't get another quarter to increase his stats, because his team won in regulation.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: masterfins on January 10, 2012, 09:50:17 pm
Tebow made himself $25 million in advertisements with that one pass in OT.

Plus his contract calls for a $250K bonus for every playoff win, so he's earned that bit of extra.  Wonder if he'll drop it in the collection plate this Sunday??


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 11, 2012, 09:59:34 am
Personal attacks between MikeO and EK removed.  Knock it off guys. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 11, 2012, 10:10:45 am
Not through four quarters, he didn't.  Flacco didn't get another quarter to increase his stats, because his team won in regulation.
Um... Yes he did. The only stat he had less than Flacco before OT was the one TD. He still had more passing yards (236), more rushing yards (50) and a higher QB rating before the overtime. Those are the numbers. They are what they are; I didn't create them. You're mistaken. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 11, 2012, 04:50:04 pm
Um... Yes he did. The only stat he had less than Flacco before OT was the one TD. He still had more passing yards (236), more rushing yards (50) and a higher QB rating before the overtime.
You claimed that Tebow had more passing yards, more rushing yards, equal TDs, and a better passer rating at the end of regulation.  This claim is false.  Full stop.

Tebow had more passing yards and rushing yards, true.  He had less TDs (1 rush, 1 pass vs. 3 pass) and a worse passer rating (105.4 vs. 117.6).  These are all concrete facts.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 11, 2012, 05:09:19 pm
And you claimed Flacco had a BETTER game than Tebow. He didn't. I had different numbers for QB rating. Flacco total QBR was 85.2. Tebow finished at 97.3, so unless that ONE PASS was worth nearly 13 QBR points, then you're incorrect there. Even having said that, more passing yards and more rushing yards means in exactly half of those categories Tebow was better than Flacco. He also FINISHED with better stats than Flacco. So how does that make Flacco more successful against the Steelers. I didn't ask for an example of a guy who was equal, I asked for one better. At the end of the day, IMO the OT is a weak argument because it was ONE play. You keep discounting it, but I'm failry certain if Tebow would have fumbled the ball at the 20 allowing the Steelers to win, you'd be sure to include it in your assessment of his performance. But even if you discount it, Flacco's numbers are not better. At best, he had a slightly better rating (which Tebow surpassed) and one more TD (which Tebow equaled). That's NOT better; at most it's even. Full stop. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 11, 2012, 05:42:16 pm
And you claimed Flacco had a BETTER game than Tebow. He didn't.
I have supported that claim.  Flacco had more TDs, a better passer rating, and (using the favorite metric of Tebow supporters) his team won in regulation, without being subjected to the tender mercies of an overtime coin flip.

Quote
I had different numbers for QB rating. Flacco total QBR was 85.2. Tebow finished at 97.3, so unless that ONE PASS was worth nearly 15 QBR points, then you're incorrect there.
Reading is fundamental.  I have cited passer rating (a stat which we can calculate ourselves), not ESPN's QBR (which has a secret, proprietary formula, making it impossible to calculate Tebow's rating through the end of regulation).

You have no clue whatsoever what Tebow's QBR was at the end of regulation.  Your claim that it was "better than Flacco's" is pure speculation and wishful thinking.

Quote
Even having said that, more passing yards and more rushing yards means in exactly half of those categories Tebow was better than Flacco.
Flacco was better in passer rating and better in TDs (they both had 0 turnovers).  His team won comfortably in regulation (an important metric for the pro-Tebow crowd).  That sounds like a better game to me.

Quote
He also FINISHED with better stats than Flacco.
After an extra quarter, sure.

Quote
But even if you discount it, Flacco's numbers are not better. At best, he had a slightly better rating (which Tebow surpassed) and one more TD (which Tebow equaled).
So winning by a wide margin in regulation is no longer a factor?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 11, 2012, 05:47:12 pm
That's fine Spider. You're right. The entire rest of the sporting world is wrong in their assessment of his performance. All of them. Every one. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 11, 2012, 07:39:55 pm
Your apparent belief that "the entire rest of the sporting world" is unanimous (all of them!  every one!) in their evaluation of Tebow says more than I could hope to about your mindset.

There are some people, like yourself, that praise him after a good game and apologize (or disappear) after bad games.  There are others who are non-believers.  Surely you don't need me to cite them to prove that they exist?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 14, 2012, 10:22:42 pm
"The National Nightmare" as Charles Barkley called it, is now over!

Tebow 3/12 passing for 28 yards in the 3rd quarter. I would say he would pad those terrible stats but I'm not sure he is capable of even doing that in garbage time.

And since we couldn't see little Timmy do it tonight, here is your weekly Tebow pose for those who want to see it
http://www.brobible.com/bronews/story/weekend-buzz-playmate-jessa-hinton-tebowing


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 15, 2012, 06:58:38 am
Pittsburgh would've make this a much better game.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 15, 2012, 08:00:04 am
Pittsburgh would've make this a much better game.

No doubt!  Tebow lost 4 of his last 5 games this year. And aside from a few fluke plays vs Pitt he was really bad in that stretch.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Cathal on January 15, 2012, 10:10:20 am
I so wish Pittsburgh would have won that game.  :(


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: raptorsfan29 on January 15, 2012, 03:00:30 pm
I so wish Pittsburgh would have won that game.  :(

second that.

I also would go on record to say that pittsburgh would have beaten the pats.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 15, 2012, 04:13:33 pm
What kind of logic is that? They couldn't stop Denver and Tebow, but they are some going to stop the team that beat Denver by 35? You're delusional. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: masterfins on January 15, 2012, 06:09:51 pm
Denver's defense was atrocious.  Denver's offensive line was like a seive.  Tebow was not able to overcome, kind of hard when the defense is in the backfield before the ball even reaches his hands..  Brady & Gronkowski would not have been stopped by any team.  Tebow has a ways to go, but may just make it.  After all this is Alex Smith's seventh year and he is just now playing his best.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 15, 2012, 07:20:49 pm
^^I agree. What did New England cause- 20 plays for negative yards? That's the most complete I've seen them play all year. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 15, 2012, 10:45:14 pm
^^I agree. What did New England cause- 20 plays for negative yards? That's the most complete I've seen them play all year. -EK

I just don't understand how Tebow lit up Pittsburgh's defense (one of the best in the league) for 316 yards, but couldn't do anything against New England's defense (one of the worst)


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 15, 2012, 10:55:52 pm
I just don't understand how Tebow lit up Pittsburgh's defense (one of the best in the league) for 316 yards, but couldn't do anything against New England's defense (one of the worst)

Pittsburgh's defense was a smoke and mirrors stat. YES, they were #1 in pass defense. But who did they play this year? They got Kerry Collins, Colt McCoy (twice), Kellen Clemens, Tyler Palko,  Blaine Gabbert, and Tavaris Jackson. They padded their pass defense stats vs the worst of the worst QB's in this league. That's 7 games, damn near half a season vs god awful QB's who can't throw the ball to save their lives


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Thundergod on January 16, 2012, 01:52:53 am
Denver's defense was atrocious.  Denver's offensive line was like a seive.  Tebow was not able to overcome, kind of hard when the defense is in the backfield before the ball even reaches his hands..  Brady & Gronkowski would not have been stopped by any team.  Tebow has a ways to go, but may just make it.  After all this is Alex Smith's seventh year and he is just now playing his best.

Well said


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: fyo on January 16, 2012, 07:19:22 am
Pittsburgh's defense was a smoke and mirrors stat. YES, they were #1 in pass defense. But who did they play this year? They got Kerry Collins, Colt McCoy (twice), Kellen Clemens, Tyler Palko,  Blaine Gabbert, and Tavaris Jackson. They padded their pass defense stats vs the worst of the worst QB's in this league. That's 7 games, damn near half a season vs god awful QB's who can't throw the ball to save their lives

It was probably also the only time all year that Tebow saw Cover 0 all night long.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 16, 2012, 12:22:20 pm
Pittsburgh's defense was a smoke and mirrors stat. YES, they were #1 in pass defense. But who did they play this year?
They played 7 games against teams that made the playoffs, which is more than anyone else in the NFL can say.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 16, 2012, 12:34:38 pm
They played 7 games against teams that made the playoffs, which is more than anyone else in the NFL can say.

Yeah but I am looking at QB's they faced to judge their pass defense. Dalton and Flacco they got 4 games against, good QB's, not exactly great and Dalton is a rookie. Kevin Kolb who isn't great had a big day vs them. Alex Smith, a playoff team but not exactly a superstar QB (yes I know he had the game of his life this weekend, still just 1 game) isn't a great QB by any means.

Aside from Brady they didn't face any other elite QB this year (unless you count Schaub elite). They had a nice schedule lined up for them to put up good "pass defense" numbers


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: masterfins on January 16, 2012, 12:37:28 pm
I just don't understand how Tebow lit up Pittsburgh's defense (one of the best in the league) for 316 yards, but couldn't do anything against New England's defense (one of the worst)

I think it was Dan Patrick I heard this morning say that Belichek didn't take Denver for granted, they game planned them to death.  And as EK implied it was probably NE's best defensive showing all year long.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 16, 2012, 12:40:46 pm
I think it was Dan Patrick I heard this morning say that Belichek didn't take Denver for granted, they game planned them to death.  And as EK implied it was probably NE's best defensive showing all year long.

To me its not even that; Tebow's last 4 games heading into New England, he was beyond god awful in 3 of them. And in the other game (Pitt) he had a lucky quarter and 1 decent simple pass in overtime where the WR did 90% of the work. The odds of Tebow being god awful again last Saturday vs the Pats were very high.



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 16, 2012, 01:22:49 pm
Yeah but I am looking at QB's they faced to judge their pass defense.
So which QBs did CLE (#2 pass defense), HOU (#3), BAL (#4), or NYJ (#5) face?

When you get right down to it, how many teams played against a bunch of elite QBs in one year?  The Redskins?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 16, 2012, 04:43:30 pm
So which QBs did CLE (#2 pass defense), HOU (#3), BAL (#4), or NYJ (#5) face?

When you get right down to it, how many teams played against a bunch of elite QBs in one year?  The Redskins?

Oh I am sure the other teams near the top of pass defense rankings are in a similar situation as Pitt. And I'm not saying many teams play a murderers row of elite QB's. But I am just pointing out Pitt played a lot of crap QB's this  yearand caught huge breaks by not having to face Bradford, Cassle, Peyton...etc and got some even worse back-ups to go against. Pitt really just faced Brady.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 16, 2012, 05:09:28 pm
Oh I am sure the other teams near the top of pass defense rankings are in a similar situation as Pitt. And I'm not saying many teams play a murderers row of elite QB's. But I am just pointing out Pitt played a lot of crap QB's this  yearand caught huge breaks by not having to face Bradford, Cassle, Peyton...etc and got some even worse back-ups to go against. Pitt really just faced Brady.


And when they did, they flat out stepped up and punched him in the mouth.  Plus, Tebow is not an elite quarterback.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 16, 2012, 05:15:16 pm
Plus, Tebow is not an elite quarterback.

Couldn't agree more!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 16, 2012, 05:24:21 pm
And when they did, they flat out stepped up and punched him in the mouth. 

Sorry, just giving equal billing since half the quote was left off. Carry on. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 16, 2012, 11:05:46 pm
Sorry, just giving equal billing since half the quote was left off. Carry on. -EK

Excuse me.  I gotta go take a shit.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 16, 2012, 11:11:35 pm
Oh I am sure the other teams near the top of pass defense rankings are in a similar situation as Pitt. And I'm not saying many teams play a murderers row of elite QB's. But I am just pointing out Pitt played a lot of crap QB's this  yearand caught huge breaks by not having to face Bradford, Cassle, Peyton...etc and got some even worse back-ups to go against. Pitt really just faced Brady.
Well, without looking at the stats at all, I would guess that the average passer rating of the QBs PIT faced (excluding the games in which they played PIT, of course) would be significantly above the league average.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 21, 2012, 11:44:48 am
http://www.randomfail.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/tebow.jpg

Look at what this guy did.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EKnight on January 21, 2012, 01:02:09 pm
That's nuts. Regarding Tebow- apparently he played the second half of the Pats game with torn cartilage in his sternum and a bruised lung. I'm not saying that's any kind of indicator for his play, just that it's pretty damn tough. -EK


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 21, 2012, 02:59:25 pm
That's nuts. Regarding Tebow- apparently he played the second half of the Pats game with torn cartilage in his sternum and a bruised lung. I'm not saying that's any kind of indicator for his play, just that it's pretty damn tough. -EK

excuses!

Either you are healthy enough to play or you aren't. The excuses are tough to take. He played the same crap game in the 2nd half vs NE and put up the same crap numbers in that half,just like he did 90% the time he played this year. Just excuses!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 21, 2012, 03:12:55 pm
MikeO you are missing the point. 

It isn't an excuse for why Denver lost.  The game was well in hand for NE by the time Tebow got injured. 

But the injury would have sidelined most players, put he kept playing even at that point the game was unsalvagable.  That takes guts. 



Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 21, 2012, 03:25:28 pm
MikeO you are missing the point. 

It isn't an excuse for why Denver lost.  The game was well in hand for NE by the time Tebow got injured. 

But the injury would have sidelined most players, put he kept playing even at that point the game was unsalvagable.  That takes guts. 



Lots of players play hurt and play through injuries, that's the point. Tony Romo with a collapsed lung and fractured ribs played half a game and won (yes WON) the SF game this year. My point is people and the media want to give Tebow "extra credit" for playing hurt. Tons of guys play through injuries they don't go around making it public and trying to pass it off as an excuse. Lots of players in this league have guts and play through much worse injuries than Tebow had last week. They don't get national media attention giving them "extra credit" for gutting it out and playing through it. That's the point. The Tebow-Mania SPIN machine was in full force on this.

You are a Pats fan, remember 2007 when Phillip Rivers with a torn ACL played the entire AFC Championship game limping around. He didn't have the media machine to pump out the "excuses" for him. He didn't get extra credit for it like Tebow is getting. It's silly. God forbid anyone say Tebow was bad or had a bad game, now its he was injured and isn't he so special he played through injuries. Damn near the whole league is playing through injuries and some have had far more impressive performances with worse injuries. Sorry if I don't stand an applaud Tebow for playing a little banged up.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Spider-Dan on January 21, 2012, 10:29:50 pm
Hey, wasn't the media just bashing Roethlisberger for playing injured at the end of the season, when PIT has healthy QBs behind him?

Somehow, I doubt the same angle will be taken with St. Timothy...


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 21, 2012, 10:42:01 pm
Hey, wasn't the media just bashing Roethlisberger for playing injured at the end of the season, when PIT has healthy QBs behind him?

Somehow, I doubt the same angle will be taken with St. Timothy...

EXACTLY!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 28, 2012, 03:29:39 pm
The title of this thread is Tim Tebow is garbage. News is coming out that Kim Kardashian is on the hunt and making a play for him.

IF Tebow lays down with her for a roll in the hey we at least can confirm and agree Tebow sleeps with Garbage!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Phishfan on January 28, 2012, 04:29:09 pm
If you consider the National Enquirer as news, it explains a lot.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 28, 2012, 07:30:47 pm
If you consider the National Enquirer as news, it explains a lot.

settle down, I was just having some fun. Don't take everything so seriously. Have a sense of humor. Tebow's people did release a statement saying he wasn't interested! LOL. That's what I found funny


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Dave Gray on January 18, 2013, 08:47:11 pm
I was just browsing around old threads and ran across this.  I stand by my original statement that Tebow sucks.  Do any of you claiming he's a winner want to recant, now that he can't even land a job?


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on January 18, 2013, 10:51:25 pm
Truthfully, I don't blame him for this season. The Jets have proven themselves beyond incompetent. It seems they traded for Tebow (giving up good value to), just so Jacksonville couldn't have him. He was in a prime spot to start, but the Jets stuck with Sanchez who was historically bad and even when Mark was benched for the 3rd stringer and McElroy got hurt, they went back to Sanchez.

A conversation over his skills is one thing, using this season as proof of his bad play is another and it's inaccurate.

I don't think he will be great or even start more than 10 games the rest of his career, but playing well in your first playoff game is good and worthy of more chances. He never got that because the Jets lied to him and well, because they are the Jets.


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: MikeO on January 19, 2013, 05:10:29 am
I was just browsing around old threads and ran across this.  I stand by my original statement that Tebow sucks.  Do any of you claiming he's a winner want to recant, now that he can't even land a job?

This was the "Greatest Thread Ever!!"

-Tebow is a Top 10 NFL QB
-Tebow is a One in a Million Talent

And my all time favorite...
Anyone who saw Simpson jump over a guy and do a mid-air flip to score a TD and land on his damn feet, and now wants to argue he's NOT a stud receiver is just foolish.

Playing for a playoff team in 2012 he caught 26 balls for 274 yards and no touchdowns!  A true stud if there ever was one! lol lol


Oh the memories! Thanks for bringing it back to life Dave!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Landshark on January 19, 2013, 08:13:57 am
This was the "Greatest Thread Ever!!"

-Tebow is a Top 10 NFL QB
-Tebow is a One in a Million Talent

And my all time favorite...
Playing for a playoff team in 2012 he caught 26 balls for 274 yards and no touchdowns!  A true stud if there ever was one! lol lol


Oh the memories! Thanks for bringing it back to life Dave!

This is all I have to say about this:

Easy- the Jets were 2 games better than Miami last year and they made a solid move to fix their worst offensive problem.


HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!  My nose is burning!!!!!  I was drinking my coffee this morning and when I read this, I laughed so hard it came right out of my nose!!!!

Tim Tebow is a "solid move" to fix the Jets worst offensive problem??  There's delusion and then there's statements like this. 


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: TonyB0D on January 20, 2013, 11:27:40 am
There's NO chance someone other than Tebow starts for them in week one next year.


whoops!


Title: Re: Tim Tebow is garbage.
Post by: Fau Teixeira on January 20, 2013, 05:44:06 pm
Gravedig much?