The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Discuss!

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/content/why-jeff-ireland-deserves-keep-his-job

I don't have a problem with Ireland, as many other fans do.  The years that Parcells was here, I don't believe he had much control when it came to picking players and coaches.  The last two years I believe have been good drafts.  Every team drafts players that become busts, and pass on players that become all-stars, that's how the business goes.

Wow, Bell was the leading tackler last season?  If your leading tackler is a member of your secondary, your defense has problems.

Bell led the team with 107 tackles last year, followed by Dansby (105) and Burnett (103)

I'm not saying that Ireland should stay or go.  But I think it's fair to ask yourself: Are you happy with the talent on this team?  And then it's fair to say: Who is responsible for the talent on this team?

I think that there is really only 1 saving grace to Ireland right now and that's that he sacrificed to get a lot of picks and cap room.  He deserves credit for that, and for that, I think you probably give him a year to cash in on all that he's "spent" to get them. 

That's my point exactly.  I'm not advocating he needs to stay for 10 more years, but he needs 1 more year.  Its do or die in 2013 for him.

I said he and Philbin should get another year as long as they didn't lose the first 6 games (and wound up with at least 2 wins), and I'm sticking to that.

It's nice that we've hit on some players and yes, it finally looks like we might have a quarterback that has a chance to be successful at this point, but we just flat out don't have the talent as a team to compete in the NFL on a week to week basis. Sure, we can win a few games against the bottom feeders of the NFL, but against winning teams we are simply out-matched talent wise. We have only one win against a team with a winning record this year and that team (Cincinnati) is 8-6 and will be underdogs in their final two games.

This lack of talent to compete in the NFL on a week to week basis absolutely falls on the GM. He has hit on the few players that you've mentioned, but he has not yet fielded a team with enough talent to win against the top teams in the NFL. I'm not even talking about consistently beating top teams, I'm just talking about beating them once. It's been two years since the last time they've beat a team that made the playoffs. The reason for that isn't scheme at this point. It's the lack of ability to field a competitive team.

You mentioned people turning on Chad Henne and once doing so, didn't give him a chance. Were people wrong in their assessment of Henne? Looks like they were correct and it was the right decision to move on. I believe the Ireland situation is similar. Sure, there are many people that want to see Ireland fired regardless of recent moves to stock pile draft picks and cap space. But just because they have seen enough of Ireland doesn't mean it was a rash decision. He has a track record with Miami. The track record shows that he has put the team in the position that it cannot compete on a week to week basis in the NFL and this has been the case for several years now. This is why I think we need to move on immediately and try to find someone that will be more successful in bringing in talent.

You're forgetting about Seattle.

They didn't beat a playoff team last year, if that's what you mean.  They beat two teams this year that are currently slotted as playoff teams (CIN, SEA) and in 2010, they beat NYJ (who played in the AFC Championship) and the eventual SB champion, GB (at Lambeau, mind you).  In 2009, MIA beat NE and beat NYJ twice.  So usually Ireland's teams have been good for 1-2 wins against playoff caliber teams.

Not that that's good enough, but you're overstating your case.

You have to be able to separate Ireland + Sparano from Ireland + Philbin.

Ireland + Philbin has had 1 year, and we've all seen what has happened.  No one expected playoffs this year.  This year was wasted to begin with and we all know that.  That's WHY they stockpiled picks to prepare for next year.  You handicap your new coach by getting rid of his GM now.  Especially if the new guy hates the current staff.

You also have to separate Ireland from Ireland + Parcells.  You cannot evaluate Ireland on his own when considering teams that have tuna stank on them.  I specifically looked at Ireland post-Parcells in this post for that reason.  I think Parcells used Ireland as a puppet and set him up as a fall guy, when in fact he was the guy responsible.  Mostly, I really like what Ireland has done post-Parcells.

It seems that fans aren't able to separate the phases of Ireland, and that's the problem.

Again, I'm not saying he should stay for the long term.  I'm saying that right now isn't the time to do it.  He sacrificed this season to set up for next year.  You can't just take the rug out from under him - you have to let him see his plan through and prove his worth.  If he proves to F everything up even more, then yes, fire him.  Next year.

FWIW - I think the reaction on Twitter to this post is funny.  One guy unfollowed and blocked @TDMMC because of this article, just based on the headline.  Wow.

The issue here is one of culture I think, in this sport where fan bases only ever see themselves as one good draft away from a playoff appearance there is always a tendency to point the finger at someone for a poor year, and people love to judge with 20/20 hindsight.

When you think about the job of a GM, in assembling a talent pool you have to consider all the different factors, across the draft, free agency and add into that the other 31 teams are trying to do the same as you. In any given year you can have a strategy which would build you a great team, but you can't control all the factors, all you can do is execute your plan the best you can.

Even if you achieve everything you aimed for you've still got the unknowns of busted draft picks and injuries not to mention the unknowns of what happens on a Sunday afternoon defining the season.

Can you guarantee a new GM is any better, I bet most people would have loved to take Scott Pioli from NE a couple of years back but do Chiefs fans think their team is talented?

In my mind, there is only one way to judge a GM do the decsions make sense? To the rational person (not an armchair homer fan GM who beleieves only their opinion makes sense) can you rationalise the move? Marshall trade...talent wise it doesn't make sense but a diva WR who wants the ball with a rookie QB has the potential to disrupt the team...and so on.

Ultimately this team was one of the pre-season favourites to suck, and yet with the team assembled, and a young team at that were a genuine playoff contender deep into November and have beaten some solid teams. I think that in itself shows the Ireland/Philbin tandem deserves another shot at showing they understand the weaknesses and can build on what they have assembled.

It's the way Jeff Ireland carries himself that I have an issue with.  As a result, a lot of free agent players (and coaches) are avoiding coming to the Dolphins.  If they want to have any chance of surviving, they need to get rid of him.  As for Philbin's job being at risk, that won't be the case if they bring in a new GM that Philbin knows.  Prying Ted Thompson away from Green Bay would be a perfect example.

Even the '72 team has its doubts about Ireland.  Check this out:

Several ’72 Dolphins in town for the reunion this past weekend - including Paul Warfield – said they simply cannot say with certainty that Miami is headed in the right direction. Regarding Jeff Ireland, Manny Fernandez said: “Even a blind hawk finds an acorn once in a while.”

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/sports-buzz/2012/12/a-behind-the-scenes-look-at-ncaa-interview-of-former-cane-fins-heat-marlins-chatter.html#storylink=cpy

Please show me 1 single quote from a free agent player that says he didn't come to Miami because he doesn't like Jeff Ireland.  That's YOUR hatred speaking, not reality.

Here you go. 

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=19872.0

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/03/steelers-ryan-clark-says-no-one-wants-to-play-for-dolphins/1

"No one! To believe I almost went there but it was easy decision not to. ... It's my honest opinion. Not a good guy making decisions ... Done w talk of the Dolphins. Good luck to their team. Their are some good men working hard to win games ON the field. ... After having so much interaction w Phins fans today I am even more excited that I was blessed to stay in Pittsburgh. God knew better than me"

Asked and answered.

^ I don't think that people are going to by-and-large stand up and express that they didn't come here because of Ireland.  But it's known that free agents avoid poor front offices.

You don't need concrete proof.  This isn't court.

It was proven that Ryan Clark used the Dolphins to get what he wanted out of Pittsburgh.  I don't really care what he says.

But I still don't think that one single guy is the reason free agents won't come here.  Maybe it has more to do with 1 playoff appearance in the past decade and a generally unstable environment.  Like 16 different starting QB's and 5 different head coaches in the past 12 seasons.  I wouldn't want to work for that company either.

The hell he used Miami to get what he wanted out of Pittsburgh.  Miami offered him MORE MONEY than Pittsburgh was offering and he turned it down. 

He came out and said TO THE MEDIA that the main reason he turned down Miami was that they didn't have the right GUY WHO WAS MAKING THE DECISIONS.  Let's see, who has final say on player personnel??  That's right, Jeff Ireland. 

You asked me to show you where a player came out and said he didn't come to Miami because he didn't like Jeff Ireland.  Both Spider and myself have obliged.  Now let me ask you to show me this alleged "proof" where Ryan Clark used Miami to get what he wanted out of Pittsburgh.

OK fine, I will concede your one example, disregarding the assumption you're making that "guy who was making decisions" = Ireland, and not Sparano or Ross or anyone else.  That still doesn't support your general sweeping allegation that "a lot of free agent players (and coaches) are avoiding coming to the Dolphins."

One guy is not a trend.

Not a trend you say?  Jim Harbaugh met with the Dolphins.  He turned them down.  Jeff Fisher met with the Dolphins.  He turned them down.  Peyton Manning met with the Dolphins.  He turned them down.  Matt Flynn met with the Dolphins.  He turned them down.  Alex Smith met with the Dolphins.  He turned them down. 

None of them stepped in front of the media like Ryan Clark did, but their actions speak volumes here.  Especially the part about Peyton Manning going to the Tennessee, Denver, and San Francisco training facilities, but making Miami come to him.

Brian, I don't know why you would ask for evidence that Ireland is disliked, then immediately reject that evidence.

Do you know how incredibly uncommon it is for a player to come out in public and say, "This GM is an idiot and an asshole?"  Can you name three other GMs in the history of the NFL that have been publicly bashed by a player that they didn't cut?

I agree that Ireland deserves one more year to prove himself.  But it is freaking OBVIOUS that he is not respected in this league.  I don't know how many consecutive rejections it would take to convince you otherwise.

You cannot attribute EVERY ONE of these rejections to Jeff Ireland and his personality.  Please tell me you're not serious.

Matt Flynn got more money from Seattle.  Had nothing to do with Ireland, other than the fact that he wasn't willing to overpay for an unproven career backup.  How'd that work out?

I'm refuting Landshark's outlandish statement that stated that no one wants to play for the Dolphins because of Jeff Ireland.  It may be true, may be false, but it is no more than a presumption based on hate on his part.

If I was a player, considering all the bad press this front office has gotten, I wouldn't want to come here. 

Given that you just asked for "1 single quote" from someone that didn't come here because of Ireland, I presume you attribute exactly zero of these rejections to Ireland.  Are YOU serious?

Don't presume.  Its not becoming.

I am saying we don't know why, and thus PRESUMING that its all Ireland's fault is unfounded.  You're the one that always wants facts to backup claims.  I'm saying there are no FACTS to prove that Alex Smith, Matt Flynn, and all the other player that have turned Miami down in the past 5 years did so because of Jeff Ireland.  Its all suspicion and presumption.

Flynn didn't come here because of the money, Seattle paid more...period. Same can be said for Alex Smith. Miami had to call in favors just to get a sit-down with Peyton, so unfair to say he didn't come here because of Ireland. He wasn't going to a rebuilding team period. He sat with Miami as a favor to a friend (Marino)

Now, Ryan Clark. YES he didn't come here because of Ireland he claims (but that might be a money issue for all we know). But ok, let's pin that one on Ireland.  Fisher and Harbaugh you can't pin on Ireland. Those calls are made by Ross. If Ross wanted either he could have offered more money and/or FIRED Ireland. You can't pin those 2 on Ireland.

Technically you could pin Fisher on Ireland just for being alive, because he wanted "full control" and Ross wanted to keep Ireland.  So, you could spin it that way, if you are so inclined.

Not in my book, its up to Ross to then fire Ireland if he really wanted Fisher. Can't pin that on Ireland

Uh, what?

If Ross' decision NOT to fire Ireland was the reason why they didn't come to Miami, Ireland is the reason why they didn't come to Miami.  This is the most simple and straightforward logic in the world.

If you are going to say, "Well, Ross could have fired Ireland," then literally every transaction is directly on Stephen Ross.  I mean, Ross could have offered Ryan Clark twice as much money!  Ross could have fired Ireland rather than let him trade Marshall!  Ross could have told Ireland not to draft Michael Egnew!

I understand your point of view, but see it differently. If Fisher said I will come to Miami if Ireland is gone......then its not Ireland's fault then it falls on Ross's feet to make a decision who do ya want more?  Fisher or Ireland. Just the way I see it. Obviously you disagree.

What you are talking about is an evaluation of Ireland's decision making, which has nothing to do with whether prospects are avoiding Miami because they don't want to deal with Ireland.  If Fisher and/or Harbaugh wouldn't sign with Miami as long as Ireland was the GM, then that speaks directly to that point.

Fisher and Harbaugh wouldn't come as long as [insert name here] was the GM, because they wanted full control.  It has nothing to do with Ireland specifically, he just happened to be the guy in that role.

If they stripped Ireland of his power and brought it to Fisher, giving him full control but not firing Ireland, I don't think he would have objected.  But that's stupid because Ireland would be a powerless figure with no real responsibility.

Wrong again.  Both the Rams and the Niners have GM's. 

^^ I'm just going by what the media reported.  Personally, I think the Harbaugh thing was doomed and ridiculous to begin with because these idiots went to interview a guy for a position that was already filled. 

To me that's a bigger blunder than any of the player moves.

Having a GM and having "final say" are two different things.

Fisher was willing to work with Ireland, as long as he (Fisher) had final say

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000113764/article/panthers-browns-buccaneers-among-teams-set-to-rise-in-2013

Gil Brandt throws some praise at Ireland and the entire Fins franchise going into 2013. Has them ranked as the #2 "team on the rise"