The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I haven't seen it yet but am going tonight before I get too many spoilers. With that said I've never seen a movie with more positive and negative reviews.  :-\ If you've already seen it ... did you like it or not?

I will give a more full-fledged review later.  The short versions is this:

The choices that the movie makes are superb.  They WILL NOT LINE UP with what you want for these characters.  If you try to tell the movie what to be, it will not be that.  The characters do what is right for them.  In my opinion, they are all the correct choices that are true to the message of the film and the characters we've been given.  Star Wars is wide open, where it was shrinking before.

There is a less-interesting B-plot involving casino stuff and there is some CG clusterfuckery in the 2nd Act.

Outside of that, this is a great movie and is a great for Star Wars.

I thought it was good and bad and will need to watch it again. One scene I'm like ... "this is so cool" and then I'm like "WTF is this even in this movie for?". I could easily edit out 30 minutes or more of the movie and it would have been much better. I like some of the new stuff but some things seem so forced they are uncomfortable. Certain characters are only there for political correctness and humor and offer nothing to the story. Then you have the fact they just allow for anything to happen at any time. There are no "physical laws" which cannot be broken.

I like the Kylo - Rey connection although I really hate her so called lineage. Too much build up for absolutely nothing.

Her lineage is the correct answer.  The answer matters.  That is the message of the entire movie.

SPOILER ALERT ...

Her lineage does not matter. If your answer is "now we know anyone can be strong in the Force" then you haven't been paying attention. There is a long line of great Jedi ... including non-humans who were not named Skywalker. It just seemed sad attempt to bring political correctness to the movie. Just like freeing the fathiers. The "was worth it" and "now it was worth it" lines were very overplayed after releasing them. It was pretty obvious they were going to be rounded up in a matter of minutes but going through everything they were under was suddenly "worth it" for few moments of freedom? Just silly. In my opinion that whole trip and their failure should be cut from the movie. They add nothing to the story but fulfilling the minority quota.

I also think the Laura Linney storyline was stupid. There was no reason for her to not tell her plan except to create a mutiny by being so covert ... when there was no reason to be covert except to make a surprise entrance by Leah.

The light speed destruction through the destroyer. Why has that never been done before and wil this be how they destroy all future ships? How can Leah suddenly fly in space and how come bombs fall in space when there is no gravity? There seemed to be a lot of plot holes to me but I did like the Rey - Kylo banter. Looking forward to where that goes ... although I'm hoping other characters get a better storyline or move on.

As for bombs in space, this is a surprising criticism for several reason:

1) Star Wars doesn't operate by the laws of our physics, as evidenced by sound in space, people not floating around in their ships, breaking the speed of light, etc.

2) There have been bombs in Star Wars in space dating back to The Empire Strikes Back.  Tie Bombers drop bombs on asteroids in space.

3) Even if there is artificial gravity in the ships by some kind of tech, but no gravity in space, the bombs would fall in the ship (because of the gravity) and then would continue to "drop" in space because they'd have momentum without friction from air, so you'd have the same effect.

...just a weird criticism, because it doesn't matter, but even if it did, it's correct.

I honestly feel I was hypercritical just from getting irritated from stupid storylines like Finn, Rose, and even the stupid even Captain Phasma thing. I also wasn't happy about how they reduced Luke to nothing. Even in "winning" he wasn't even there so it kind of took from the coolness aspect of it.  It's obvious they are done with the Skywalker family storyline. Since that's been the basis for 40 years it just seems like they went out kind of sad when it could have been spectacular. Mark Hamill and George Lucas weren't happy with it either so I guess I'm in good company.   

I left the movie conflicted. I liked it because it was Star Wars, but I was less than impressed with it. In my opinion, it doesn't beat out Rogue One and The Force Awakens. If it wasn't a Star Wars movie, I probably would say it was "meh". There were a few parts of the movie that could have been epic but were kind of a let down.

I'm thinking there is a lot of people feeling that way. I think expectations were high and it didn't meet them.  I'm going to see it again just to see if that helps me pull it together.

It feels like the story is no longer the most important aspect. There is a sense of trying to add forced humor, cuteness, and diverse characters without worrying about the story. It went from being good vs evil to let's make this as politically correct and humorous as possible so we can sell it to as many people as possible. The reveal about Rey was the complete opposite of the "I am your father" moment in the Empire Strikes Back. It went from one of the biggest reveals in history to one of the biggest let downs .... and that just makes it seems worse than it probably is.

My wife watches them with me but isn't the biggest fan. She liked it more than I but said when Leia flew out of her space death that it seemed like the series just "jumped the shark".

I think people are crazy and this is one of the best Star Wars films.  It's all about story and doing what is right for the characters.  It avoids sacrificing what expands the story and grows the universe, at the cost of giving fans more of the same thing that they think they want.

Did Linney play Laura Dern?!

There was definitely a point in this film where I felt I was out...that I did not like it, but the 3rd act came together and saved it for me.  I definitely need to see it again. 

I think the biggest issue I had was that it was basically a big FU to long time Star Wars fans.  This movie really wanted to wipe the slate clean of previous canon, painfully so.  There were many things that could have/should have been handled better, but in the end, I enjoyed it.  I would rather a Star Wars film challenge my perception of my love of the franchise than churn out utter garbage prequels. 

My summary:
This movie is Disney putting their stamp on Star Wars.  This is what Star Wars will be going forward.  Get used to it.

The first half of the movie was brutal.  Unwatchable.  Prequel-quality.  After [dead Jedi master] showed up it took a turn for the better.  I liked the final battle with Luke and felt it was appropriate for a light-side Jedi.  I loved Rey's parentage, as I am tired of everyone important in the galaxy being the offspring of Shmi Skywalker.

I am so, so glad that I did not see this movie on premiere night, as I would have been forced to watch it again with my nephew.  I'll wait for my opinion to set, but right now I have it as V-IV-VII-III-VI-VIII-II.

I have seen this a 2nd time and the movie is much better, in my opinion -- the humor sets in, because you're not so hanging on every word in fear of what's going on.  I can conclusively say that it's definitely a better film that The Force Awakens or Rogue One.  I've got this movie in my top 3 Star Wars at the moment.

Better than Rogue One? Oh man, that's a big statement. What part of the Last Jedi really stood out to you? What part felt epic?

Hahaha ... I have no idea why I would switch them other than the Laura name.

I love both Rogue One and Force Awakens, so I don't want to come across as badmouthing those films.  I personally enjoy Force Awakens more than Rogue One, also, so do with that bit of info what you will.

The Force Awakens had a very important, very specific job: to heal the franchise -- to bring something familiar for old fans, to make a starting point for new fans.  It did this by giving us new characters that we cared about, but in situations that were very much like things we already knew.  And it worked.  But that couldn't continue or you're just rehashing.

Rogue One was a great little movie, but not something that really expands the story.

The Last Jedi is the most EPIC of the films...ever...really.  It grows so much lore -- it gives us considerable new force powers, it gives us Jedi lore history.  But more than that, The Last Jedi is ABOUT something.  It has themes and lessons, hearkening back to the lessons Luke taught us in ROTJ about redemption.

The Last Jedi is about failure.  It's about learning to better yourself after that failure.  Luke fails Ben.  He doesn't live up to the myth, but his hubris took over.  And he learns to better himself and does an even greater act to make up for it and become that myth in a literal sense.  Also, the Finn/Rose/Poe subplot is also about failure, but it's more about the lessons that come from that failure.

And there's also the main lesson, which is that we're going to save ourselves, through the next generation.  Not from the high-born or elite.  You aren't defined by your bloodline.

I also think that Kylo Ren is the best villain in the history of Star Wars.  He's so conflicted and Driver's acting is next-level.  Seeing it a 2nd time, knowing what he's thinking, the dude emotes so much with just eye-twitching.

The motivations in this movie are superb.  Every character acts in a way that makes sense, once you know what's going on.  Holdo, Luke, Poe, Kylo, Rey -- they all act in ways that are consistent with their character, considering what they know and what they don't.

The movie is beautiful.  And it's big.  Star Wars is bigger after this.

Rouge One was amazing.

Last Jedi was as well. 

I think a huge issue I have is where these films have to constantly stand up against another; they don't.  Yes, they are part of a series.  But this "x movie doesn't do what y movie did, so I'm pissed" thinking really confuses me.  Frankly, it's like your favorite band re-recording the same song, over and over.  What's the point?

I don't give a rat's ass if George Lucas likes, appreciates, didn't like, or otherwise, the storyline in this movie.  Same with Mark Hamill; it's a Star Wars franchise and not the Skywalker one.  The franchise isn't about a singular character, or characters.  How did Yoda ghost hit Luke with an actual cane?  Don't care.  I laughed; it's the suspension of belief.  For that matter how does a storm trooper trained for sanitation duties wind up in a battle in Force Awakens, is skilled enough to man a weapon in a tie fighter, and then stand toe to toe with Captain Phasma?

Don't care.  The same way I didn't care about a hobbit making it across middle earth and getting a ring into Mount Doom when I first read J.R.R. Tolkien.  Fin's a skilled janitor (and Frodo is a determined little hobbit).

I really enjoyed the entire movie.  And, for the record, I don't believe for a moment Hamill is done in the series.  It's simply time to pass the torch, this isn't his story.

My tentative SW rankings:

1) Empire
2) New Hope
3) Last Jedi
4) Force Awakens
5) Return of the Jedi
6) Rogue One
7) Revenge of Sith
8) Clones
9) Phantom Menace

I need to see Last Jedi again, but I'll play.

1:  New Hope
2:  Rouge One
3:  Empire
4:  Last Jedi
5:  Return of the Jedi
6:  Force Awakens
T9: Sith / Clones / Menace

Rogue over Empire...brave choice.

They are all different movies and although I really liked the original trilogy, I would rather watch Jar Jar today than one of those.

Ranked with my enjoyment at the time I first watched them, the originals trilogy probably takes the top spots, I just don't enjoy watching them again.

Rogue One is definitely my favorite of the newer movies and the only one to threaten the original trilogy in "first watch enjoyment"

Yeah, coming from someone who saw Star Wars (A New Hope) as an 8 year old kid when it first hit the screens in 1977 and followed them since, this is the strong feeling I got too.

While I did not hate The Last Jedi as a whole, there are many aspects of the film that I absolutely detest. There are so many things contradictory to what has been built up in IV-V-VI-VII and that are just plain wrong.

Not sure if you guys have seen what the folks at the review site Half in the Bag said, but they (humorously) cover a fair bit of of this territory (spoiler alert):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9hwGZFPSmw&app=desktop

The prequel-esque story with the casino planet is awful, that's around half an hour that did not need to be there. A subsequent bonus would be that Benicio Del Toro as the hacker DJ with his arms dealer political speech mercifully wouldn't have been there either...

The ridiculous Leia scene: at no other time in the five movies does she even use the force, let alone like that. Not before, not afterwards. Not once. Unbelievable!

Yoda. Seriously WTF?

The set up of what were potentially major characters & themes in The Force Awakens, only to be radically changed or snuffed out in this one. Rey's parentage, a whole lot of fuss and wasted movie time all about absolutely nothing as it turns out. General Hux interestingly seemed to be more of a competing millitarian equal to Kylo Ren in the previous film (a relationship similar to Darth Vader & Grand Moff Tarkin, very different but equals in rank - a key difference though being that Vader & Tarkin clearly respect each other, Kylo Ren & Hux clearly don't) but here he's nothing more than a bumbling, snivelling comedy relief character. Captain Phasma: there has never been a character that visually looked so important, yet turned out to be so pathetically lame. The story around Snoke had the potential to be interesting, but Rian Johnson apparently had other ideas... Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) was an awful addition that should not have been there: Admiral Ackbar could have been this pivotal character (hell, even Leia could have been more appropriate the way things have turned out).

Then there's Poe doing the equivalent of a handbrake turn in an X-Wing. The Matrix-like slow motion shots during the lightsabre scenes. That stuff looks horribly tacky and out of place.

Ironically unlike some others I did not find Luke's humor in The Last Jedi to be strange: in A New Hope & Empire Strikes Back he let rip with a few sarcastic remarks at times, so I thought these instances were not jarring. That said some of the other humor though was really odd, like trying way too hard. A prank call? Your mother? Seriously no.

While still entertaining, overall I thought the movie was a mess (the Star Wars equivalent of Quantum of Solace in the James Bond series) and worst of all has left me not really interested in what happens from here. The frustrating thing is I can see it had the potential to be amazing with the right editing, the right oversight, but like others I also see a finality here where it was maybe not intended. Kylo Ren is the only interesting character with any screen presence that is left, I don't care for the rest. Carrie Fisher was incredibly dull in the last two movies, I'm still scatching my head wondering what the hell they were thinking having Leia to be a feature of Episode IX? That's not going to happen now of course, but it seems weird they did not change things around before the movie was released knowing full well that was no longer a possibility.

So in the overall scheme of things I rank film this way down, not as bad as the prequels but worryingly close. I doubt future viewings will change my mind.

1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. The Last Jedi
T9. The prequel shit

Not sure if it’s because we are the same age and have had similar experiences with the series but I’d say that’s a great review Downunder!

So I watched the movie today and after rereading this thread, I think the reason that you liked it Dave and the reason why some have not is exactly what you just said, the LORE. In my opinion there are those whose enjoyment of the movie hinges on the LORE. They enjoy the movie when the LORE is the focus and it goes in the direction they like. There are others who while the LORE is important it's not central to their movie enjoyment. I have to agree with others that from a plot/characters standpoint, this one was rather weak in several places. Not ALL of the characters, some of them are REALLY good, but overall it's hit or miss. The LORE is there, but there's a lot of other stuff that is rather weak and extremely forced and I agree 30 mins could have been removed and made it better. For me, unfortunately none of the movies since the first 2 have really captured the magic of the first 2 where nothing seemed forced at all. They had the the best characters and the best plot lines. The last couple may have been the best of the rest, but they are still behind the original 2 that started it all.

This is probably how I'd rank things as well. I might be convinced to move Return of the Jedi down a spot or 2 as there was also some bad parts in that movie, but overall it was very entertaining.

Did you miss I? Judging by the fact the no one noticed including you, I'd say it's well down the list.

Episode I isn't good enough to even make the ranking.  Its exclusion is intentional.

I don't regard it as worse than the other two prequels, hence the equal ranking.

Most people detest The Phantom Menace the most because of:

- Jar Jar Binks
- The Kid
- Midichlorians
- Politics in Star Wars
- The weird looking Yoda (in the original cut/release)

As bad as those things are, the story is nowhere as incredibly stupid as the following two movies, and the acting (and directing) nowhere near as horrible. For the key love story Hayden Christiensen & Natalie Portman had absolutely zero chemistry between them - I think Harvey Weinstein & Germaine Greer would have more spark, it was that bad. The production & direction were lazy, almost all done on green screen with Lucas sitting on a chair watching two monitors: so many scenes people are either walking, turning to a window or just sitting on a couch, with the background (and other characters) to be CGI'd in later. The plots were downright stupid, right up to the horrendous ending in Revenge of the Sith which was so bad it was borderline funny. There's no way I would say either of these massive turkeys is better than The Phantom Menace, in many regards they are even worse.

A bit more on this change in Hux - in The Last Jedi, I had a hard time not laughing whenever he appeared. Nothing to do with the lame prank call, but more to do with the fact that he reminded me of this guy:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jWa0WmMo-1Y/maxresdefault.jpg)

Christopher Pyne is an Australian right-wing politician, who was spoofed in a number of satirical Star Wars based political pieces:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWa0WmMo-1Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evi4OpC0RN0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxZNztTqwYg

I can't help thinking that maybe Rian Johnson maybe saw these and thought he had to have a character as twee, pompous and incompetent like that in The Last Jedi...

... either that or he saw Shaun Micallef's impression of Kenneth Williams from the Carry-On movies, and decided General Hux should be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10bXlqjJLdg

"Ohhhh Matron Please!!!!"

(https://i.imgur.com/Ugn23xC.jpg)

IMHO Hayden Christensen is the single worst thing to happen to this franchise. He has gotten better but his acting and personality in the Star Wars franchise was equivalent to watching paint dry. It was hard to do and a huge stretch to see him as the future Darth Vader.

Adam Driver is only two years younger than Hayden Christensen (who is the same age as Natalie Portman, even though Anakin is supposed to be significantly younger than Padme).  Can you imagine how much better the prequels would have been with Driver instead of Christensen?

It would have been better ... that's for sure.

I think that if the prequels remained largely the same with a few of the original intentions, they would've turned out way better.

1) George Lucas just isn't a good actor's director.  He doesn't draw good performances.  He didn't want to direct Ep1 originally, but Spielberg wouldn't do it.  Both Christensen and, more so, Portman are decorated actors capable of giving great performances.

2) Anakin was originally several years older in the script.  He changed it to make him younger but kept the script.

3) Lucas wanted Lawrence Kasden to write the script with him.  I think that would've kept Lucas' main ideas, but would've cleared up/simplified/streamlined things and fixed all of the cringey dialogue.

It would be nice to know how that would've turned out.

I finally watched Last Jedi this weekend, and I really enjoyed it. I did like it a little more than Rogue One, and I'll definitely be watching it a second time soon.

Watched it three times in the theatre, trying to figure out if I liked it or not, but finally came to the conclusion that I just didn't.

Can I ask why you would watch a movie in the theater 3 times without knowing if you like it?

I plan on watching it a second time myself and I wasn't a big fan of the first. I'm hoping time and less anticipation helps to appreciate it.

I can finally open this thread now that I've seen it.  I thought it was very average.  I liked the Rey/Kylo connection.  I would be very surprised if they left Rey's parentage as a couple of nobody's.  There was a lot I didn't like:

SPOILERS



 

• Leia force glide in space--not only looked dumb, but no precedence that she developed force powers.  I don't mind her doing that, it just came out of no where
• Snoke being underwhelming and not adding much to the story
• Luke having PTSD and just fading away at the end.  He needed to go out like a boss.
• Finn, Poe, Rose dynamic
• Phantasm going out like Boba Fett, all anticlimactic
• Literally no twist at all
• Pretty sure no one had an arm chopped off

We haven't seen Leia for 30 years, so there's room to assume that things have changed, but she did exhibit force powers in the three previous films: speaking to Luke telepathically in ESB, knowing that Luke was her brother without being told in ROTJ, and sensing Han's death in TFA.  She's been pretty consistently using some form of Force powers all along.

The reveal that Luke is projecting is a huge twist, I think.


Not sure if it counts, but both of Snoke's arms are cut off when he's bisected.[/list]

It goes from being able to do a little force, to full on force gliding in space.  I agree, it has been 30 years, but it just comes out of left field.  I feel she needed some sort of showing that she can wield the force better than just sensing Han was dead before gliding around in space.

We disagree about Luke being a projection as a twist.  It was a small twist, not "I am your father" or "I was Snoke the whole time".  Not those per say, I want to be surprised, but some sort of twist along those lines that blows your mind, or at least tries to.

Good enough, I feel better about the arms thing now, thanks!

I feel things needed to be fleshed out a little better in some parts of the story.  There needed to be more tension between Finn and Phantasm, more chemistry between Finn and Rose.  You get the chemistry, tension and conflict between Rey and Kylo.  If a little bit of that carried over to the other two I mentioned, it would have come off better.  I feel Poe is just yelling at whoever, and the whole mutiny thing was stupid and avoidable.  Don't even get me started on Finn going kamikaze on the cannon for no reason at all.

As bad a character that I found the botanist lady from Jurassic Park to be in Last Jedi, that light speed into the destroyer was pretty boss.

Could have been better, but could have been worse too.

We saw her in the last movie without any mention of the force that I recall. Definitely not 30 years since she had a role. I agree it was out of nowhere and felt forced. Working in her death only seems appropriate since she died in real life.

She used the Force in TFA, feeling Han's death at the time of death.  Also, sensing good in Kylo and a bunch of other Jedi feelings-type stuff.  ...nothing as big as force levitation, but it was there.

The filmmaker said that to kill her in that moment would've robbed the audience of her final performance, including the closure scene of Luke at the end of the film.  I understand that, I guess.

She can just die between films and I think it's not a huge deal.  Maybe they'll use some old footage or movie magic to bring her back for a small scene.

Leia force ghost with Luke in the next movie, calling it now.

Sorry Dave, I am with Tenshot on this one. For starters, in ESB it was Luke telepathically calling to Leia to say where he was, she had nothing to do with it. Absolutely no idea Luke was her brother as evidenced by that French kiss at Hoth (ewww, does that look awkward now!) She may have sensed Han's death, but she had absolutely no foresight that Kylo was evil enough to kill him in the first place? Then again maybe she did, and figured it was cheaper than a divorce...

So then out of nowhere after somehow using the force (like nobody ever has before) to survive the explosion on the ship's deck, the vacuum of space, and return back to the said ship, she doesn't have a clue at the end of the movie that Luke is buying time for them to escape? Of all people Poe is the one who realizes this and convinces everyone to leave!

That's what I meant when I said earlier that at no other time in the five movies does Leia even use the force, let alone like that moment. It's far more plausible that Kylo Ren was actually the one who used the force to save Leia after the explosion on the bridge, he stopped when it came to release his torpedos and looked upset when his escorting fighters fired on the ship. Think about that as an option, it seems slightly less ridiculous.

Without trying to sound like being totally miserable about the movie that's another scene I have a real problem with, mainly in regard to consistency. So in The Force Awakens Han manages to jump the Falcon into hyperspace from within another ship with absolutely no consequences whatsoever, but in this movie Holdo decimates a good part of the First Order fleet with this hyperspace jump?

The frozen-in-time explosion itself was really out of place to me too, looking like something out of Battlestar Galactica (the 2004 TV series) or Star Trek, not Star Wars.

I can get behind that and would find it pretty cool if Kylo saved her.

By definition, no character in any Star Wars movie is shown using the Force before the first time they are shown using the Force.  The first time Luke is shown using the Force to pull something was when he pulled his lightsaber out of the snow in ESB, and force pulling wasn't even established as a thing then!  In ANH, it was used to trick people and to concentrate harder, not to move things around.  Then suddenly in ESB, the Force is being used to superjump and move objects.  And in TFA, the first time Rey uses the Force to pull something is when she pulls a lightsaber away from Kylo Ren... a guy skilled enough to freeze blaster bolts in place with the Force!

I mean, we all acknowledge that it's not at all surprising or unexpected that Leia is a Force user.  Would this have been easier to accept if she was previously shown using the Force to grab a coffee mug from across the room?  You guys are making a big deal out of nothing.

Dude, she was all but dead in space and force glided to the ship.  That's crappy writing.  Even as a full on force user, that scene was lame visually.

If you are going to make the argument that it was a bad scene from a cinematography point... sure?  I'm not a film major so I can't tell you.

But from the standpoint of consistency with in-universe (and on-screen) history, there is no problem with that scene.  Hell, my biggest issue with it was how she floated back to the ship and walked through an opened door without everyone in the hallway being sucked out into the void.  Does every door on the ship have the same kind of force fields that are in the hangar bays?

I think you just have to let physics go in Star Wars and accept that there's some kind of shielding/gravity/pressure protection present either in their technology or in their world where they don't have Newtonian laws.

Nobody is floating around in their ships, they go outside the ship and walk around without protection, there is sound in space, there is resistance in space where you wouldn't expect, etc.

On this subject: has anyone in a Star Wars movie ever "heard" an explosion in space?  I know that we, the audience, "hear" explosions that would not be able to be heard, but I don't think any of the movie characters do...?

I'll give you Han. I forgot about that. As for Kylo, I took that as her role as a mother more than the force.

But there were obvious clues/signs that Luke, Rey and Anakin were already using the force before they were even aware of the concept, let alone be instructed about it. With Luke & Anakin it was their similar instinctive piloting abilities (as noted by Obi Wan when he was talking with Luke about his father in Tatooine), Anakin and Rey their abilities to fix things. Rey also basically learned to adapt and copy from Kylo Ren, resisting his attempt at reading her mind and turning it on him, then using the same to convince the Stormtrooper to release her.

Leia had virtually nothing in comparison before, and absolutely nothing after she managed that miraculous feat (after she came out of her coma). So the one and only time the leader of the resistance uses this great power, it's to save her own ass. Yeah, I have a major problem with that.

Problem is that it opens up a whole new set of (additional) plot holes. Surely Snoke would have sensed this weakness in Kylo Ren? Then again, he somehow did not see his betrayal coming, despite being so strong with the force he could manipulate a mind bridge between Kylo & Rey across the galaxy...

Snoke (like others) could have been a very interesting character. After seeing the Force Awakens I had serious doubts about a full CGI villian on the big screen again (after the disaster of General Grievous, and the horrible attempt at CGI Grand Moff Tarkin) but it seemed to be working: he was so powerful manipulating things and people with the force he did not even need to get out of his chair! There was also a possible backstory there to explore: how did he become Supreme Leader from the ruins of the Empire? How did he corrupt Ben Solo? Why does he hate Luke Skywalker so much and/or why is he so afraid of him? The massive scar down his head suggests some kind of conflict that nearly killed him: did Luke do that, or was it maybe Darth Sidious/Palpatine in a previous (failed) attempt to seize power?

Andy Serkis gave this a red hot go, and I commend him for actually giving this character screen presence despite my reservations about the CGI origins. However the powers that be decided it was either all too hard, too predictible, or too lame and got rid of him. Either that or Rian Johnson & Disney wanted more prequel-like adventures to Casino planets...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ

Hi Ben!  Hi Grandpa!  lmao that was good

Haha, that is brilliant!

that was great!!

That ending was 1000x better than the actual movie ending.

Agreed. Kinda sad, isn't it?

I'm hopeful that JJ Abrams will be able to get the story back on track for episode 9.

Don't think he can. I am still not sure if Rian Johnson basically trolled JJ Abrams (and the rest of us) by trashing all of the potential plot themes established in The Force Awakens, or he was secretly in collusion and ploughed the field/took the hit for a whole new Disney/Marvel comic landscape to be created that the old faithful (like me) will absolutely hate. Like the casino planet (and/or horrifyingly, the prequels). You all secretly know it's coming, so either brace for it, or run away now while you can...

By the end of The Last Jedi I thought that's it for me, they've killed (or put into a deep coma) the last of what was good about Star Wars. Luke, Han & Leia are gone, Snoke had some potential but was taken out, the only interesting character left is Kylo Ren. Rey is boring, Finn & Poe are (very ordinary) comedy relief. The rest is fan service or rubbish. That's it. I was about ready to puke when I saw the kid at the end use the force to will the broom in his hand and show the "resistance ring" on his finger. It's so childish and cartoonish: now anyone can become a Jedi with no education or training whatsoever, that's just brilliant (sarcasm).

Oh, and the trailer of the new Han Solo move looks totally shithouse too...  needless to say, I am not even going to bother

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNW0B0HsvVs

I feel like I'm in crazy town.  Last Jedi is the best Star Wars movie released in 30 years.  It does so much to grow the franchise.

A lot of people didn't see it that way. It isn't like you are just now hearing this. 

First of all, soft bigotry of low expectations?  "The best Star Wars movie in 30 years" is just saying that you think it's better than III and VII (because being better than I and II is not an accomplishment).

But more to the point: I can see how you don't think this movie is vile poison, but actually thinking it's GOOD is... puzzling.  It's basically the epitome of what I expected from Star Wars presented by Disney: taking nearly 40 years of lore and dumping it in the trash, but in a more active fashion than the passive "This stuff is no longer canon" statements made at the buyout.  It's not just that this movie doesn't make sense, it's that this movie tells me that everything else in Star Wars never made sense to begin with.

If someone told me 10 years ago that Disney would buy Star Wars and start making their own sequels, The Last Jedi is PRECISELY what I would predict.

^^^^ Wow Spider. I don't think I've ever agreed with you more than I do now. That's a great perspective.

i thought objectively the last jedi is better than every star wars except for 4 and 5.
new hope is better because it was ground breaking and innovative. empire because i think empire was hands down the best star wars movie. it was full of the bad guys win sometimes so fuck you  .. and i appreciate that

I'll just leave this here...

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/ (https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi/)

I get that people didn't like the movie -- I just find it off, because it's such a breath of fresh air.

And Spider, I include Rogue One in there, as well.

Last Jedi, IMO, is better than 6, 1, 2, 3, 7, R1 ....and I love Star Wars and liked, if not loved 4 of those 6 mentioned.

I'm just not sure why anyone would say that VIII is a "great movie" but also believe that II is a terrible one.  The casino planet could have been straight out of I or II, for how ridiculous it was.  It was a prequel-quality segment of the movie, from the little kids to the pod races man-camel escape to the cringe-worthy dialogue and tortured, aimless plot thread.

huge fan of SW here, I do like the direction the franchise is going. done are the days of sith and jedi. But a new entity all together. Rule of two no more, lost jedi order.  It gives a chance to open up the story. Although the SW expanded universe opened up a lot but it way all over the place. Personally for me, I got tired of it. Who know what could happen with Kylo Ren being the front man of the first order and the new rebellion?

So...This is now available to stream on Netflix....And I wanted to just be distracted for while.I'm sorry if some people get offended here...

Oh...This was horrible garbage...It felt like it was written by a bad screen writer from late 70's early 80's low budget action films.

+ I liked it tried to harken back to the originals form the 70's and 80's with the opening,vehicles,and other scenes felt vaguely familiar to those movies.

---The problem was it took *Dave's Harry potter movie theory,and mixed it with ^old low budget bad action movie,times 100 to anything bad happening to the good main characters.If this came out in the the late 70's early 80's re watching it now,I'd chuckle,but this came out in 2017 . ???

I get it,fantasy,space,suspension of disbelief..I'm almost 43,not 8...I don't like cartoons,I really don't enjoy movies/T.V shows where you know the nothing bad is really going to happen to any of the good guys.It's hard to care about characters,if they are always invincible to everything.You never worry Wylie Coyote is is going to hurt/catch the road runner.

*Dave's Harry potter theory used to be - Harry (and his friends) are in trouble/in a situation..They need away to get past a guard...Poof there is a cloak of invisibility. They need a broom,and poof one is sent to harry by a mystery person....

^Old low budget bad action movies -20 bad guys spray the good guy's with 50 bullets each,and never come anywhere close to hitting the good guy.The good guy shoots all the bad guy's with 1 shot with a hand gun,never misses,never reloads,and never runs out of ammo.

I watched it again over the weekend.  I love it more and more every time.  It's so wonderfully crafted, as a story.  Best looking and directed of all the Star Wars movies, tightly knit story -- there are a few humor moments that don't land for me, but overall, I think it's masterful.

I find it funny how everyone I talk to, including myself, find this movie to be the hottest of garbage, but you define it as masterful.  Not ragging your opinion, just funny regarding the polarization.

Well I certainly didn't find it to be garbage, just average. There's a lot of middle ground here, too often people tend to rate things as GREAT or GARBAGE while most stuff is in between those extremes.

I think Dave is trolling us for offseason page clicks.
There's no other reasonable explanation.  :-X

How does this fit the Harry Potter problem, Lil B?

It seems to me that pretty much every solution to each problem is adequately set up or foreshadowed.

;D hahaha

Uhhh  :-\...Sorry Dave,it's kinda pointless to go down that road...Whatever I post,it's not going to matter neither of us are going to change our thinking on it...You believe it's a masterpiece,and I'm on the side of this it's garbage......We'll leave it at that...

I watched this for the 1st time,and kept quoting the Church lady..."How Convennnn-ient"  :D

P.S. I did watch the Youtube video about how it should have ended.That was pretty good... ;D