The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Apparently Bill Belichick gave a press conference wearing a windbreaker that had Patriot Pat ripped off.  According to the NFL network this should all make us cry.  Also we're supposed to have our drama antennae on high because Tom Brady who has been with him forever and Gronkowski who's been there almost as long weren't at OTA's yesterday.

Also something about the Jets finally have quarterbacks on their roster. 

Deshaun Watson completed a lot of passes in practice.

Chicago will have the greatest offense since the '99 Rams.

Something about Dez Bryant.

Matt Patricia wants to run the ball in Detroit. 

After that I put on Bar Rescue and went to sleep. 

Even after trading for Tyrod Taylor, and taking the #1 QB in the draft, the Browns tried to trade a #2 draft pick for Philly's Foles.  Philly turned them down.

Gronk spiked a watermelon and is in love with a horse named after him.  At least that was funny.

Reuben Foster of the 49ers just had all of the domestic violence charges dropped, after his ex admitted that she was making shit up to go for a money grab and to hurt him for breaking up with her. He could still face discipline from the league, but since there was a strong possibility that he would get booted from the 49ers, I'll be OK with a short suspension.

That whole story seems bogus to me. I'm not sure how you go from being left "bruised and with a ruptured ear drum” to "I made up the story because I was mad." I think you'll see her bank account make a significant jump and if history shows anything then he will soon get himself back into trouble. I really hope he straightens himself out but I'm not expecting it.

In other non news, NE is getting silly with preseason player numbers.

You're missing a big part of the story... While I don't doubt that money will be changing hands, she actually produced a video of the fight she had with another person that caused those marks.

Richie Incognito off his meds again, he lasted about nine months longer than I thought he would.  In an involuntary hold for psychiatric problems.

I hadn't seen that. That definitely changes things. What a biatch!!

Yeah, even worse, she allegedly did the same sort of thing with a different ex-boyfriend a while back.

That's a shame.  That dude seemed like he really tried to straighten himself out and he took so much crap over the Jonathan Martin thing.  And we lost him to Buffalo.  Of all the places.

The Bills released him and he threw a dumbbell at a guy in a local gym.  The guy is off his rocker.  Some of my fellow Bucs fans were suggesting they bring him in on a prove-it type deal.  I don't want him anywhere near OBP.

I saw a comment to the effect of, "We all thought Richie Incognito was just your average schoolyard bully, but based on Jonathan Martin's life trajectory since then it would appear Incognito is actually one of the greatest bullies of all time, which you have to respect."

Stop blaming Incognito for Martin's issues. It's clear now that Martin was just as unstable as Incognito if not more.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/05/the-quiet-redemption-of-jonathan-martin

Martin sure didn't seem that unstable when he was at Stanford.  In fact, he didn't seem particularly unstable until he became the teammate of a guy who had already been kicked off of multiple NFL teams because of his demeanor.

But Incognito was an effective offensive lineman, so all that stuff gets swept under the rug.

There seems to be two black and white views of the situation:

1. Incognito is a psychopath and Martin was a victim who but for Incognito would have been a stable and fine individual.

2. Martin was a snowflake that would failed in any situation and Incognito was an innocent scapegoat. 

I tend to think there was some of both.  Incognito is nuts and while Miami may have been his worst stop.  He had issues everywhere.  And Martin lacked coping skills. 

Martin definitely had issues of his own.  Many people do.
Those issues did not become debilitating until he joined the Dolphins.

And to be clear: I do not place the ultimate responsibility with Incognito or Martin.  Incognito was pointed at Martin by Jeff Ireland and directed to toughen him up, while Joe Philbin was either actively (condoning) or passively (focused ignorance) complicit.  Incognito certainly deserves some responsibility, but it's the combination of laziness and incompetence from the front office - who didn't feel like coaching Martin through his weaknesses themselves - that was the true culprit in this story.

If there is one phrase you can write on Joe Philbin's head coaching tombstone, it should be "Coaching Players Forward Through Problems To Productivity Is A Job For Somebody Else."  That is the one unifying philosophy of his approach to coaching players in Miami: shirking the responsibility of coaching players with issues, and pushing it off to the next man.

By his own admission he had trouble coping in middle and high school and blamed some of that on the schools that he had been placed in by his parents as well as his own inner demons. We'll never know if things would have worked out differently for Martin if he had never been drafted by Miami, but had he gone to a different college he may have never even made it to the NFL and there's no guarantee that every other NFL locker room would have been drastically different. To place even a majority of the blame on Incognito alone is short sided at best.

I do agree with you that the Dolphin organization as a whole failed miserably with both Martin and Incognito. It was clear Incognito should never have been placed in a leadership role and it was clear that Martin was struggling and the organization either turned a blind eye to the issue or perhaps even worse actually thought they were doing the right thing.

This is answer.  There is nuance in this problem.  Martin was unstable and needed help.  Incognito was unstable and not the person to provide that help.  The Dolphins were and didn't realize it.

That is probably as good of an explanation as I have seen.  Sums it up pretty solidly I think.  Football and a lot of other traditionally macho endeavors are experiencing the worlds colliding phenomenon where the mentality is the same as it was 50 years ago, but society as a whole has changed to where what used to be acceptable is no longer acceptable.  My field of work is experiencing the same thing. 

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/08/nfl-richie-incognito-arrested (https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/08/nfl-richie-incognito-arrested)

Richie Incognito was arrested.... :-\...He's already prone to fly off the handle,but he was at a funeral home making plans for his Father. :-\

He keeps it up, he'll end up in that funeral home.  To think some of my friends on Pewter Report were keen on bringing him in when he got cut.

Admittedly, I was an Incognito apologist during the Martin debacle.   But dude is a nut case.  I don't envision things going well for him from this point on in life. 

List of players suspended to start the 2018 season:

https://www.4for4.com/fantasy-football/2018-nfl-suspended-players

(The list appears to be continually updated)

Currently at 30 players suspended for a total of 97 games.

Every new thing that happens to Incognito, the legacy of Joe Philbin plummets deeper for me.  You're not responsible for the actions of another man.  But the idea that they put trust in this guy to toughen up another player shows you how far gone this organization got.

It's actually tough for me to call who is the worse coach, Philbin or Cameron.  Cameron was terrible but only had one season.  Philbin had almost 4 seasons to firmly and solidly establish that he didn't catch a bad break, nor was he getting better with experience in his first HC job.  He was just consistently clueless.  He brought nothing to the table; he didn't motivate the players, he didn't have superior game strategy.  The only thing he ever did of consequence was ship out good players.

Well Reuben Foster arrested again for domestic violence, the 49ers have parted ways with him.  His short NFL career is now over, teams don't want players that have repeated domestic issues, even if the first may have been somewhat fabricated.  Too bad.

If this was the 90s or early 2000s, some team may have taken a shot with him on a "prove it" type deal.  But nowadays with the new awareness on domestic violence and the stance the NFL is taking, I have to agree with your prediction

Yep...always disappointing when a player flushes their Golden Ticket, just because they can't resist smacking a woman around or doing other random stupid shit.

something seems fishy about this.... he was in the team hotel in Tampa when he got into an altercation with an ex-gf.  What the fuck was she doing there?  I am not excusing violence, but she went to the hotel he was staying in.  Why?  Was it to confront him? 

You guys over estimate how much teams care about this stuff.  Unless his crime is protesting police brutality by silently kneeling teams only care if the guy can ball. 

Hoodie, your theory will be tested in the upcoming offseason.

The only thing the owners might see as More Dangerous than a player kneeling silently in protest of police brutality is a player deciding that HE gets to choose which team he wants to play for.

My prediction: Bell will get multiple offers in the 8 to 11 million per year range but will refuse to sign for anything less than 17 million per year sit out and in 2020 only get offers in 5 million range and will a path that will have ESPN comparing his career to baseball legend Matt Harrington

"You guys over estimate how much teams care about this stuff.  Unless his crime is protesting police brutality by silently kneeling pissing off the fan base and sponsors while only slightly contributing to the product on the field teams only care if the guy can ball."

I'm not going to go with the obnoxious "fixed it for you" but I did make this statement more accurate.  

Agreed.

I don't believe that there is a conspiracy against Kaep.  Under normal circumstances, he'd have a job as a backup.  But backup QB is not a position where you want to have a big name.  You'd ideally never have to hear about the guy.  There is too much that comes with Kaep (and not just negative, but also, some people really like him and would want him to start) that it may cause turmoil.  I just don't think it's a risk that you'd want to take on.

Say whatever you will about Kaep, but he is controversial.  People love him and hate him both.  Those aren't characteristics you want in a backup QB, that you want to be quietly talented just in case.

Of course there's not. If I was an average to below average employee that was surrounded by drama would you hire me if you had better options? That's basically what it boils down to.

A few years ago there was a backup QB in the league with way less talent, that brought just as large of a sideshow distraction and whose sideline kneeling was just as controversial with many supporting it and many others feeling it had no place on the football field.

Didn’t seem to affect Tim Tebows ability to get a job.

That's because God was on his side...duh

No one stopped coming to games or buying merchandise because of him. In fact ... Tebow increased sales and didn't cause problems with sponsors or fans.

Does he still have that job? Or for that matter, any other job in the NFL? Thanks, you just proved a valuable point. Unless of course you think that the league conspired against Tebow for his religion. Sounds illegal to me, maybe he should sue. You think?

(https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sites/csnphilly/files/styles/article_hero_image/public/2017/05/19/vick-slide.jpg?itok=hGdAa49-)

Running a dogfighting ring and killing the dogs that underperformed also "pissed off the fan base and sponsors."  But Vick didn't piss off the owners, so...

If it were up to me, Vick would have never played a down, he's a disgusting human being.  Having said that, Vick was somewhat elite when he went to jail, was starting caliber and had a career, pro bowl year with the Eagles.  Kaep is a back up who isn't very good.  You're missing the part where a back up QB isn't worth the headache.

Vick's Pro Bowl season with the Eagles doesn't count, as the proper comparison would be to Kaep's season after he was brought back into the league (which hasn't happened).  Who can say how Kaep would do if he comes back?

Now, as to performance...

Vick's last season before jail:
204/388 (52.6%), 2474yds, 20TD, 13INT, 75.7 passer rating, 4.59 ANY/A

Kaep's last season:
196/331 (59.2%), 2241yds, 16TD, 4INT, 90.7 passer rating, 5.92 ANY/A

And obviously, there are many QBs with backup (or even starting!) jobs with worse stats than either of these.  Performance isn't the reason; Kaep made the owners angry.

I don't think the majority of owners are angry at Kaep; like everything else it's about money for them.  At the end of the day Kaep is going to cost them more money than he's worth.

I think he made them angry because he convinced other players to also kneel.  So while players like Kenny Stills and Eric Reid can be forgiven, Kaep (as the original rabble rouser) needs to be taught a lesson.

This is why I have a slightly different expectation about what will happen to Le'veon Bell... especially with him making statements about how he's "doing this for the rest of the players."  As Bob McNair put it, you can't have the inmates running the prison... and that's what Kaep and Bell represent.

I think Bell had every right to sit out, but I think the way he did it angered not only owners, but fans and teammates alike.  He gave the impression to his team that he was going to show up during the bye week, and he didn't, which angered some of his teammates.  Then he said he was leaving Miami for Pittsburgh giving the impression he was going to show up at the last deadline for him to report this year, and he didn't.  I know quite a few Steelers fans that liked him as a player in prior years, but were pi$$ed over his shenanigans this year, as were his fellow teammates that raided his locker when he didn't show.  If he said from the start he was going to sit the entire season out, then players and most fans would have been alright with it.  But by sticking it to Steeler ownership he also stuck it to fans and teammates, hence he may get an icy reception wherever he lands.

Let me just clarify and say that I'm not 100% convinced Bell will also be blackballed.  The league would have to be incredibly stupid to do so with another collusion case already on the books right now; refusing to sign Bell would be too blatant.  The only reason to even try that would be:

1) the league expects that the regulators will do nothing about either situation (and there's no better time to make that gambit than right now)
and
2) the league expects and welcomes a labor stoppage at the end of the current CBA, with the intent to finally break the back of the NFLPA once and for all

I can't say those are bad bets.  The NFLPA is the most incompetent union in pro sports.

is it sad that with the state of the dolphins talent vs the rest of the league, i welcome replacement players? .. bring on the scabs !

Bell will get hired somewhere, perhaps Kansas City, it's just a matter of how much.  Personally I feel the owners have been colluding against paying RB's for several years now.  The handful of top RB's are just as valuable as top QB's and WR's, but they have been unwilling to give them the large contracts.  Instead the owners prefer to use them up and throw them away.

I thought the NFLPA was already broken; how much better of a deal can the owners get?  The owners are making more than ever.

When does the current CBA end?

After the 2020 season.

I don't see a case of owners colluding against paying RBs i see an evaluation of fair market value. RB is a position where you can get alot done with very little.
look at pittsburgh .. i think they're fine without bell. It doesn't help his case at all that his replacement is putting up similar stats.

The only position that is worth QB money is a QB. even a stud WR doesn't merit alot of money. they just don't help the team win in the same way a star QB does.

I thought the forgone conclusion is the Jets will sign Bell although now they may be in contention with KC. 

RB is also a position that has a short shelf life.  Hence the owners are reluctant to shell out big contracts for that position

With obvious notable exceptions, like Frank Gore, Adrian Peterson and a few others...but yeah, RB's, on average, simply can't take the prolonged beating required of the position.

I got curious and found this, thought I'd share:

(https://external-preview.redd.it/L56K4042otoz067nBQ127Ljf528GxpL6PfRaXZcSaL0.png?auto=webp&s=df870ea463b2326d3333000e65f753d70bfcb186)

I also don’t think RB matter that much. The quality of the oline is 95% the rb is only 5%.  I would rather have Conner and Pittsburgh oline then Bell and Mia oline.  Smart teams won’t spend a ton on a rb because using that money to improve the oline is a better investment.

On the flip side it's easier to sign a single player the caliber of Bell then it is to find 5 offensive lineman the caliber of Pittsburgh's offensive line. Just sayin'.

Me too! How can we pull that off?  ;D

Exactly. That's not on the table as far as I know.

True.  Signing Bell will sell tickets, but won’t win you a championship.  Better plan improve two o line man this year, 2 the next and then in year 3 you can win games with slightly above avg qb and rb.  The line is fundamental a decent qb with 4 seconds will beat an elite qb with 2 seconds to get rid of the ball.