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TDMMC Forums => Other Sports Talk => Topic started by: DaLittle B on July 12, 2018, 01:31:34 pm



Title: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: DaLittle B on July 12, 2018, 01:31:34 pm
It seems to be a divide on what is considered a sport.

Competitive gaming, is it a sport?
First - the Robotic for kids (it was featured on Real sports this month)

I can see the argument,but how prevalent is the thinking?

Where do you draw the line? What is a Sport in your opinion?


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Phishfan on July 12, 2018, 02:26:11 pm
For me, I really don't have it defined and think of it more as a, "I know it when I see it" thing. We don't have to consider all competition as a sport. I'm more of a traditionalist if that tells anything.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 12, 2018, 03:46:02 pm
Sports requirements:
- athletic in nature
- active defense, via simultaneous play
- governed by a set of rules

I would argue that gaming doesn't meet criteria one, thus is not a sport.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Spider-Dan on July 12, 2018, 03:50:37 pm
Sports requirements:
- athletic in nature
- active defense, via simultaneous play
- governed by a set of rules
Under this definition, most of the timed or measured Olympic events do not qualify as sports.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Fau Teixeira on July 12, 2018, 04:02:30 pm
Under this definition, most of the timed or measured Olympic events do not qualify as sports.

they do not .. and they aren't so that's well in line


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Fau Teixeira on July 12, 2018, 04:03:11 pm
Also by Dave's definition i would argue that War is sport between countries


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: DaLittle B on July 12, 2018, 04:28:10 pm
just Definition spit out by google
Quote
sport
spôrt
noun
1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.
"team sports such as baseball and soccer"
synonyms:   (competitive) game(s), physical recreation, physical activity, physical exercise, athletics; pastime
"we did a lot of sports"


Merriam Webster definition (farther down the list,IMO what pertains to the topic)
Quote
sport
noun
: a contest or game in which people do certain physical activities according to a specific set of rules and compete against each other
: sports in general
: a physical activity (such as hunting, fishing, running, swimming, etc.) that is done for enjoyment

Where I struggle is,I believe there needs to be a skill or talent that you need to develop to compete in said sport.Fishing,and Video games I really have a hard time saying...Yes Sports.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Tenshot13 on July 12, 2018, 04:52:56 pm
Wrestling started this, but it should be classified under:

--Sports - Football, baseball, hockey, etc.
--Sports entertainment - WWE, Poker, eating competitions, etc.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on July 12, 2018, 05:00:08 pm
Sports requirements:
- athletic in nature
- active defense, via simultaneous play
- governed by a set of rules

I would argue that gaming doesn't meet criteria one, thus is not a sport.
Other than the active defense, I would tend to agree. The problem I have is track and field and golf do not meet your criteria but I would consider them both a sport. One thing for sure ... if an athletic talent isn't involved,  then I have a really hard time calling it a sport ala chess and gaming.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: masterfins on July 12, 2018, 05:19:50 pm
Must Have:

Rules and a governing body(s)
Scoring
Athleticism
Main purpose is to compete against an opponent(s)
Performed at a Collegiate (NCAA) or Professional level.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Sunstroke on July 13, 2018, 08:51:44 am
Must Have:

Rules and a governing body(s)
Scoring
Athleticism
Main purpose is to compete against an opponent(s)
Performed at a Collegiate (NCAA) or Professional level.

Ah yes, Beer Pong...the sport of kings!




Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dolphster on July 13, 2018, 10:27:09 am
For me, I really don't have it defined and think of it more as a, "I know it when I see it" thing. We don't have to consider all competition as a sport. I'm more of a traditionalist if that tells anything.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. 


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: BigDaddyFin on July 13, 2018, 11:31:46 am
Athletic Activity.
Scoring clearly defined by a tangible outcome.
Some sort of physical exertion.

Example. 
I'm tied in a golf tournament with 1 hole to play.  I can state as fact that I need par to tie and birdie to win.  Based on the par for the hole everyone automatically knows and can point to the score I need and what I need to do to achieve that score to tie and to win.

Cheerleading.  Not a sport. 
The girls ARE athletes.  Yes they risk injury.  I'm not belittling any of that.  But when the last team goes and they need a 9 to win, what constitutes a 9?  It's subjective.  You can't sit there and be like well they need to all do 10 summer saults and 36 air traffic controllers and then a dozen of those liberty things and then not drop anybody to score a 9.

Darts.  Not a sport.
Competition yes.  Takes some form of skill absolutely.  Tangible scoring.  However, I've never seen anyone throw their arm out doing it.  The biggest source of injury more than likely is alcohol combined with lack of aim.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Fau Teixeira on July 13, 2018, 01:16:47 pm
by that criteria how do you rate competitive video game playing ?

Players peak from their teens to late 20s .. during a game of copetitive starcraft 2, they can get up to 400 actions per minute, wrist and hand issues both sideline players from competitive play. Once you get older you lose a step and can't keep up as well. active simultaneous offense and defense. scoring is clearly defined.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: masterfins on July 13, 2018, 01:22:47 pm
Athletic Activity.
Scoring clearly defined by a tangible outcome.
Some sort of physical exertion.

Example. 
I'm tied in a golf tournament with 1 hole to play.  I can state as fact that I need par to tie and birdie to win.  Based on the par for the hole everyone automatically knows and can point to the score I need and what I need to do to achieve that score to tie and to win.

Cheerleading.  Not a sport. 
The girls ARE athletes.  Yes they risk injury.  I'm not belittling any of that.  But when the last team goes and they need a 9 to win, what constitutes a 9?  It's subjective.  You can't sit there and be like well they need to all do 10 summer saults and 36 air traffic controllers and then a dozen of those liberty things and then not drop anybody to score a 9.

Darts.  Not a sport.
Competition yes.  Takes some form of skill absolutely.  Tangible scoring.  However, I've never seen anyone throw their arm out doing it.  The biggest source of injury more than likely is alcohol combined with lack of aim.

I agree with Cheerleading not being a sport, because the main purpose is to entice the fans to cheer for the sport being played.  Their once a year competition is just an ancillary part of the activity.

However, I would consider gymnastics to be a sport, even though there is subjective scoring.

Darts & video gaming also are NOT sports, they are games.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on July 13, 2018, 04:03:18 pm
I agree with Cheerleading not being a sport, because the main purpose is to entice the fans to cheer for the sport being played.  Their once a year competition is just an ancillary part of the activity.

However, I would consider gymnastics to be a sport, even though there is subjective scoring.

Darts & video gaming also are NOT sports, they are games.
If you consider gymnastics a sport then you have to include competitive cheer. Competitive cheer has nothing to do with the rah-rah of the sidelines and everything to do with the tumbling of gymnastics, stunting and also dance. They also are in the top for serious sports injuries. At many high schools they "compete" but it isn't anywhere close to what the competitive teams are doing.

Being a football guy I had no clue but one of my daughter did it all the way through high school so I saw how tough their practices were and intense their competitions were.  It was really eye opening for me.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 17, 2018, 10:25:02 am
To me, golf is definitely not a sport.  It's a game.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on July 17, 2018, 10:28:25 am
To me, golf is definitely not a sport.  It's a game.
Have you ever played? If so, have you ever walked the course and played? There is definitely a physical and mental aspect to playing golf.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 17, 2018, 10:34:01 am
I have played golf.  Not a sport.  No defense....you can play it by yourself.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Sunstroke on July 17, 2018, 10:50:18 am
I have played golf.  Not a sport.  No defense....you can play it by yourself.

I can play basketball by myself...

Golf is a sport.



Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Phishfan on July 17, 2018, 01:37:50 pm
For the golf is a sport crowd, is billiards a sport?

For the record, I call golf a sport but not billiards. I'm just curious where your lines are because the most physical thing I see isn't very physical in either. I'll counter any argument on the physical aspects of golf with the name John Daly.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Sunstroke on July 17, 2018, 02:34:06 pm
For the golf is a sport crowd, is billiards a sport?

For the record, I call golf a sport but not billiards. I'm just curious where your lines are because the most physical thing I see isn't very physical in either. I'll counter any argument on the physical aspects of golf with the name John Daly.

You ever break a sweat playing Billiards?



Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 17, 2018, 03:12:24 pm
This discussion always seems to sound like I'm insulting things that I don't consider sports.  I'm not.  I think that there are plenty of cool, worthwhile, fun, athletically challenging things that aren't sports.

Like golf.
Or surfing or weight lifting or gymnastics or running or whatever.

You cannot play basketball by yourself.  You can shoot hoops by yourself (practice).  You can play HORSE (a game) or you can play 1 on 1 (a sport).


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Phishfan on July 17, 2018, 03:51:47 pm
You ever break a sweat playing Billiards?



Yes.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Pappy13 on July 17, 2018, 05:57:38 pm
You ever break a sweat playing Billiards?


I break a sweat standing up. Just sayin'  >:D


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Pappy13 on July 17, 2018, 06:03:20 pm
What I find interesting about this discussion is that most competitive video games at least hit the other points that have been made about there being an offense and a defense for example its just that it's digital rather than physical. They all are governed by a well known set of rules. There is obviously a LOT of skill involved in competitive video games and of course it does require *some* physical exertion (I have seen people sweat profusely playing video games). So while I'm not sure they should be called sports either, I think the distinction is rather pointless. It's a competition that people pay money to go sit in a stadium to watch the pros play. That seems pretty much like Baseball, Football or Basketball to me. Don't really see why we shouldn't call it a sport. Why does there need to be a distinction? The fact they are calling it an eSport is distinction enough in my book. If movies are to be believed all sports will be eSports at some point. :)


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: BuccaneerBrad on July 18, 2018, 09:03:29 am
You ever break a sweat playing Billiards?

Golfers have to do calisthenics, running and weights as part of their training.  Billiard players do not.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Tenshot13 on July 18, 2018, 09:29:55 am
Golfers have to do calisthenics, running and weights as part of their training.  Billiard players do not.
John Daily says, "Hi."

He does curls though...curls that 12oz golden nectar to his lips.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on July 18, 2018, 10:05:13 am
John Daily says, "Hi."

He does curls though...curls that 12oz golden nectar to his lips.
Guess Vince Wilfork isn't an athlete either.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Vince_Wilfork.JPG/220px-Vince_Wilfork.JPG)


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 18, 2018, 10:12:37 am
re: e-sports

I just don't grant that they're athletic in nature.  Sure, there are physical components that require skill, but I think it's a far reach to call that athletic.  I suppose it's up to interpretation, though.  I could see some form of VR possibly being considered a sport, though.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Pappy13 on July 18, 2018, 12:51:30 pm
It's just tough to figure out where to draw the line. Does Bowling, Curling, Archery or dare I say race car driving require any more athleticism then eSports? You don't have to be "athletic" to be good in these other "sports", what's required from a physical standpoint is precision and you have to be just as precise in eSports to be good as you do in any of those "sports" in my humble opinion.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Tenshot13 on July 18, 2018, 02:13:08 pm
Guess Vince Wilfork isn't an athlete either.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Vince_Wilfork.JPG/220px-Vince_Wilfork.JPG)
Wilfork could bench 225lbs 36 times when he was drafted, and was in the weight room a lot.  Daily, not so much.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: masterfins on July 18, 2018, 02:43:03 pm
If you consider gymnastics a sport then you have to include competitive cheer. Competitive cheer has nothing to do with the rah-rah of the sidelines and everything to do with the tumbling of gymnastics, stunting and also dance. They also are in the top for serious sports injuries. At many high schools they "compete" but it isn't anywhere close to what the competitive teams are doing.

Being a football guy I had no clue but one of my daughter did it all the way through high school so I saw how tough their practices were and intense their competitions were.  It was really eye opening for me.

I'm curious, do they have a schedule of cheerleading matches every week?  Do they publish the weekly standings in the sport of competitive cheer?

I agree that cheer takes a great deal of practice and athleticism, but that doesn't make it a sport IMO.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Pappy13 on July 18, 2018, 03:30:21 pm
Do they publish the weekly standings in the sport of competitive cheer?
I would be quite shocked if there's not a website that tracks team rankings in competitive cheer.

Edit:  Quick google search found this...right next to the rankings for Baseball, Lacrosse, Soccer,  Softball, Tennis and Track and Field.

https://secondhalf.mhsaa.com/Rankings/Competitive-Cheer


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: BigDaddyFin on July 21, 2018, 01:23:12 pm
by that criteria how do you rate competitive video game playing ?


It's a video game.  It's VR.  I have a lot of respect for those guys because I faded out when XBox came out at the turn of the century.  To me it's like comparing porn to actual sex.  So no it's not a sport.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on July 23, 2018, 10:19:08 am
I'm curious, do they have a schedule of cheerleading matches every week?  Do they publish the weekly standings in the sport of competitive cheer?

I agree that cheer takes a great deal of practice and athleticism, but that doesn't make it a sport IMO.
They do not have scheduled matches as they are not wrestlers but they do have competitions and rankings. They even have National Champions in every league from Pop Warner, collegiate, and then Open. As a matter of fact ... Disney hosts World Championships where only teams that have won the championships get to compete against the rest of the world.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 23, 2018, 12:06:19 pm
Cheerleading is like weight lifting.  ...definitely athletic competition, but not a sport. 


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: BigDaddyFin on July 24, 2018, 02:33:09 pm
It's just tough to figure out where to draw the line. Does Bowling, Curling, Archery or dare I say race car driving require any more athleticism then eSports? You don't have to be "athletic" to be good in these other "sports", what's required from a physical standpoint is precision and you have to be just as precise in eSports to be good as you do in any of those "sports" in my humble opinion.

Curling and archery, no.  Also fits under competition.  Bowling I would say yes because those guys and women actually go through wrist and hand injuries and believe it or not, throw a couple games and see how sore your legs end up.  Racing is a little different in that the car does most of the work, but keep in mind most race car drivers' heart rates are comparable to that of a marathon runner under green flag conditions and that wheel is a lot harder to turn at that speed.  Fatigue definitely comes into play there.  Plus you're basically sitting in a 120 degree or more seat (See Ricky Rudd).  On a hot day in a fast race like Talladega in May those drivers lose 10 or 15 pounds just from sweat. 


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: BuccaneerBrad on July 24, 2018, 04:54:12 pm
Cheerleading is like weight lifting.  ...definitely athletic competition, but not a sport. 

The question is, what is the difference?  Try telling a cheerleader or weightlifter that they don't do sports and see what kind of reaction you get


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Fau Teixeira on July 24, 2018, 10:51:16 pm
The question is, what is the difference?  Try telling a cheerleader or weightlifter that they don't do sports and see what kind of reaction you get

that doesn't matter in the least. this conversation is purely semantic in nature and we're talking about a categorization system.

it's like saying, "try telling a tomato it's not actually a vegetable and see what kind of reaction you get" .. who cares about the reaction.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 25, 2018, 11:51:30 am
Try telling a cheerleader or weightlifter that they don't do sports and see what kind of reaction you get

What's that have to do with anything?


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on July 26, 2018, 11:31:48 am
How is weightlifting not a sport? I'm honestly confused.  You are competing against other athletes to see who can lift the most weight.  Did you mean bodybuilding?


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 26, 2018, 11:39:19 am
No, I mean weightlifting.  Again, it's not a slight against weightlifting.

There is no defense. 


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: BigDaddyFin on July 27, 2018, 09:27:42 am
Dave I have to agree to disagree with you on weightlifting because it's a tangible outcome.  I know when the guy before me goes how much I have to Bench/Squat/Deadlift to win.  Bodybuilding on the other hand is an athletic competition.  It's subjective and decided by judges.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on July 27, 2018, 10:05:53 am
^ Fair enough. 

I can't really tell you what you consider sports and not.  But I require simultaneous play and defense.  Weight-lifting has neither, so it doesn't apply for me.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: DaLittle B on July 27, 2018, 11:56:50 am
I'm in the until we are full on Holodeck VR,video games aren't sports to me...Competitive Entertainment/leisure activity...

I see most Olympic things competitions,but sometimes struggle to call them sports....Athlete...Sure.

I'm not going to attack someone for saying it's a sport or not...


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: BuccaneerBrad on July 27, 2018, 01:45:35 pm
^ Fair enough. 

I can't really tell you what you consider sports and not.  But I require simultaneous play and defense.  Weight-lifting has neither, so it doesn't apply for me.


How about pool or bowling?  Or chess or checkers?  Because there are a lot of high school and/or colleges that have teams who play those


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: EKnight on July 27, 2018, 06:33:05 pm
Dave I have to agree to disagree with you on weightlifting because it's a tangible outcome.  I know when the guy before me goes how much I have to Bench/Squat/Deadlift to win.  Bodybuilding on the other hand is an athletic competition.  It's subjective and decided by judges.

Powerlifting is also decided by judges. There are rules for squat depth, bench lockout and pause on chest. Also, just because you know what a guy totals, doesn't mean you CAN lift enough to beat him. Having competed in both, I would say powerlifting/Olympic lifting is definitely "more" of a sport than bodybuilding.

That said, I can understand how people would say neither is a sport.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 15, 2019, 07:08:35 pm
i know it is an old thread but.....

Daves definition and boxing........ A match that ends because of a knock out would be defined as a sporting event.  But one that is decided by judges (like figure skating) would not.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on January 16, 2019, 10:35:03 am
No, boxing is a sport regardless.  The judges are applying points based on concrete facts on whether punches happened.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on January 16, 2019, 11:46:02 am
No, boxing is a sport regardless.  The judges are applying points based on concrete facts on whether punches happened.
but it's subjective as is proven in how different the results are by each judge.  Gymnastics, dance,  and cheer leading do the same. In those ... they actually start with points and then take them away based on how well you execute them. 


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 16, 2019, 01:20:25 pm
No, boxing is a sport regardless.  The judges are applying points based on concrete facts on whether punches happened.

Same can be said of figure skating. 


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Tenshot13 on January 16, 2019, 02:15:24 pm
and The Wheel of Time turns


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on January 16, 2019, 03:26:03 pm
^ I don't agree and see a clear difference.

You aren't rated "out of 10" in boxing.  You have punches counted and weighted and then a finite decision is made on who the winner of the round is.  There is a judgment call, but it's closer to whether or not something is pass interference or not.  There is judgment, but a referee doesn't determine that it was 6/10 pass interference.  Either it is or it is not.  So, yes -- there is judgement involved, but it is attempting to be an objective and definite yes/no to award a round.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: masterfins on January 16, 2019, 04:51:47 pm
Sorry but boxing is a legacy sport, it goes back to B.C. times.  If you want to argue about MMA being a sport, have at it, but boxing is definitely a sport due to its longevity.  3000 years from now I'll agree cheerleading is a sport if it's still around.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 16, 2019, 06:21:02 pm
^ I don't agree and see a clear difference.

You aren't rated "out of 10" in boxing.  You have punches counted and weighted and then a finite decision is made on who the winner of the round is.  There is a judgment call, but it's closer to whether or not something is pass interference or not.  There is judgment, but a referee doesn't determine that it was 6/10 pass interference.  Either it is or it is not.  So, yes -- there is judgement involved, but it is attempting to be an objective and definite yes/no to award a round.

What you mean is you understand the scoring system in boxing but don’t pay enough attention to the others to understand their system, and being *I* don’t understand the scoring system it must be subjective, whereas the system *I* understand is objective because *I* understand it. 


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on January 17, 2019, 10:58:04 am
^ No, it's not a matter of understanding.

I don't really understand boxing scoring anymore than I understand gymnastics.

This has nothing to do with sports that I like vs things I don't.  In fact, there are sports I dislike greatly compared to other activities I really enjoy watching, but they aren't sports.


I'd rather watch a skateboarding competition over a soccer game, but soccer is a sport and skating isn't.



Scoring aside, gymnastics doesn't have active defense, which is why I don't consider it a sport.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Tenshot13 on January 17, 2019, 11:08:56 am
I'd rather watch a skateboarding competition over a soccer game, but soccer is a sport and skating isn't

It's not a sport, it's an Exreme Sport.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Phishfan on January 17, 2019, 02:21:15 pm
^ I don't agree and see a clear difference.

You aren't rated "out of 10" in boxing.  You have punches counted and weighted and then a finite decision is made on who the winner of the round is.  There is a judgment call, but it's closer to whether or not something is pass interference or not.  There is judgment, but a referee doesn't determine that it was 6/10 pass interference.  Either it is or it is not.  So, yes -- there is judgement involved, but it is attempting to be an objective and definite yes/no to award a round.

The winner of a round in boxing gets a 10. Just saying.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: Dave Gray on January 17, 2019, 02:33:15 pm
^ Correct.  Just like a TD gets 6.

Different things get different finite points for doing different things.

But even before you get to scoring, it's about active defense.


Title: Re: What do you consider a Sport?
Post by: CF DolFan on January 18, 2019, 10:10:09 am
I totally thought of this thread yesterday while listening to Hochman and Crowder. They are in Vegas for the fight this weekend and had a bookie on the show. He stated he hates boxing because if it isn't a knock-out ... it is left to the judgement of the judges. He also stated that it really becomes a 50/50 at that point because its not uncommon for judges to score it differently than what other people see.