The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Up to this game, many sources, (wish I had saved them) were saying Gase had this team overperforming and that they were better than their record.

I disagree.  They should be 9-5.  They blew double-digit leads to Cin and Indy.

He has been nothing more than a really lucky Joe Philbin.

I said it before, and I will say it again.  If Miami does not make the playoffs, he needs to go.

The Dolphins are -79 in point differential this season.  5-9 would be a better representation of their play than 9-5.

In fact, over the last 3 regular seasons under Gase, the Dolphins are 23-23.  Their combined point differential across those games is -208.  That's just mind boggling.

I think that Gase has had enough time to demonstrate that he is not the right coach for this team.

He gets another year.  Firing him after 3 years is stupid.

I like Gase and hope we keep him around.  I find the play-calling in the NFL to be incredibly conservative and that is magnified because we're not that good.

And we've had a ton of injuries.  I think you just keep at it and hope for the best.  I can't believe we can't block on the O-line.  We just pick these guys over and over and never can protect our QB.

If Miami doesn’t make the playoffs he should go.  1-11 in the last 12 road games is unacceptable and we got blown out constantly.

I don't think firing Gase after this year would solve our problem.  We have no offensive line and our defensive line play is horrible.   It doesn't help that we didn't draft for either position.  I'd take a long look at Tannenbaum before I went and fired Gase.  Also a decision needs to be made at quarterback.

I honestly don't care. Until we get someone who can manage our roster we will be mediocre. We've had a shitty O-line for 7 years and now our d-line is just as bad. Until we have a chance in the trenches it doesn't matter who our play makers and coaches are. Ross needs to fire Tannenbaum and hire someone who actually knows football. He should fire him today as there is no reason to keep him around. The next guy can evaluate Gase & Chris Grier and then decide what needs to be done.

Agree.  I don’t know if Gase is a good coach or not.  But I thought Tannenbaum did a horrible job both in Mia and NY.

18 years. 18 freaking years since we had a legitimate team that had a chance to win it all. Dave Wannestedt proved good players could cover for a bad coach. I don't know that we've ever had a coach who could make our players better.

Miami is 23rd in the league on points scored. The defense is 27th in the league in points given up. In addition Miami has lost more players to IR on offense then the defense has. The only saving grace for the defense is they have done a good job on turnovers, but that doesn't make up for the number of points they have given up. If Miami had a defense that wasn't a huge liability and could force a punt once in a while the offense would get more chances to score. They need a new defensive coordinator, not a new head coach.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

They were saying on the radio this morning that our offense and defense are both ranked 29th and 14th for injuries in the league. I honestly don't know how that makes anyone on our team safe.

Those rankings are in yards per game and Miami is actually 30th in yards/game given up. I tend to look at points scored and points given up as a better indicator, but regardless Miami is horrible on defense and Gase isn't a defensive minded coach. Bring in a defensive coordinator worth a damn and let's see if Gase can generate some offense. Part of the reason we were blown out yesterday is because Miami got behind early and could never catch up and was forced to pass and our offensive line can't handle that. They need to be close or in the lead so that the running game can take the pressure off the offensive line. Giving up 2 quick scores to start the game put them behind the 8 ball from the get go. Miami can't win games like that, their offense isn't built to play like that especially with all the injuries it's sustained. The offense didn't help the defense any yesterday, but the defense gave up those 2 quick scores to start the game, that's not on the offense that's on the defense. You can't have that, you just can't.

give gase a 10 year contract extension .. stop changing coaches all the time .. it doesn't make any difference .. you need consistency in coaches and you need to build through the draft .. you can't build through free agency. it won't work.

People thinking we can lure a great defensive coach might be a bit disappointed. It will be hard to get a proven coach to move to coach under Gase as he might possibly be coaching his last year. Going with a new coach is one thing as they are typically going to get three years but the rules change with a lame duck coach.

It's tough to rate Gase given the lack of a healthy starting QB, and a plethora of injuries.  However, I don't see the need to fire Gase.  I don't see where he has made bone-headed calls that have lost multiple games; in fact I can see where the Dolphins have over performed under Gase.  I think there needs to be better coaching on the lower levels - Strength and Conditioning improvement may cut down on injuries.  An OC that can handle play calling. Definitely need a better O-line coach.

I think Tannenbaum needs to go long before Adam Gase.

Do you think the current situation in OAK is one to be emulated?
Would you be happy if Tony Sparano (RIP) or Joe Philbin were still coaching this team?

16 years. The 2002 squad was the best team in the post-Shula era, but Ray Lucas took care of that.

I'd argue that would have made them not so good. Either way ... it's semantics and I'm ok with 16 years. Either way it's been a really long time since we had a good roster and there really is no excuse other than piss poor management. Ross clearly doesn't know enough to even put good people in a position to make good decisions. As long as he is an absentee owner ... it will be that way. Since his business is worth many times over what the Dolphins are I suspect it will always get his utmost attention. The Dolphins are just his expensive hobby.

I found it odd that Joe Rose said Dan Marino would be one of the last to throw anyone under the bus in the organization so Ross probably won't be speaking with him. Since Joe and Dan are friends I can only assume he knows what he is talking about.  My question then is ... what exactly is his role in the organization? Public relations? 

THIS 

Dave was notorious for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

Still remember choking on the road to a shitty Vikings team and then turning around and having Ricky run for a bizillion yards against the Pats only to lose in OT cause he doesn't know when to use Ricky.

Wannstadt got handed that job from Jimmy, cause he forced the FO's hand.

Oakland, no.  Pittsburgh, yes.

There have been some coaches that have been given to long of a tenure, but many more have been cut too early and replaced with someone who did even poorly.

Gase has a better record than Belichick had in Cleveland.

  Can always find an example where something didn’t work out.

  Question is consistency and letting a coach develop better or worse than changing coaches frequently hoping to finally hit one

Some link on his role over the last few season:
Dan Marino’s role growing in Dolphins organization
http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2016/03/01/dan-marino-more-involved-in-dolphins-draft/ (http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2016/03/01/dan-marino-more-involved-in-dolphins-draft/)

Dan Marino Enjoying His Current Role With Miami Dolphins As Adviser
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/06/15/dan-marino-enjoying-his-current-role-with-miami-dolphins-as-adviser/ (https://miami.cbslocal.com/2017/06/15/dan-marino-enjoying-his-current-role-with-miami-dolphins-as-adviser/)

2018 NFL Draft: Dolphins’ Dan Marino scouts QBs, leaves them starstruck
http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2018/01/25/2018-nfl-draft-dolphins-dan-marino-scouts-qbs-leaves-them-starstruck/ (http://dailydolphin.blog.palmbeachpost.com/2018/01/25/2018-nfl-draft-dolphins-dan-marino-scouts-qbs-leaves-them-starstruck/)

It seems as though his role is expanding, but to what extent?  Looks like he not only evaluates potential players in the draft, but sits in on meetings as well.  I wonder how much he too wants full control on a particular area or focus cuase he knows the mob is fickle and might turn on him! LOL

I'm not a huge Gase fan, he's very brash and arrogant in the pressers, for someone who about .500 for his career.  But then again, maybe he's frustrating that guys aren't executing to the level he feels they should and knows that some of the injuries are taking their toll on the success of the team.

I'm for keeping him as coach for another year, possibly 2 yrs if he can show some big strides next season.  I want to kick Burke out and take away play calling from him as well.  I hate when the Def is on the field and he's being shown sitting on the bench going over offensive gameplan and charts.  I feel like he's disengaged from the flow of the game.

Ray "Focking" Lucas.  Who was the brainiac that thought since he could beat the Phins in the times that he could play us, that he would be the key to our future?

There's an embarrassing list of QBs that passed thru this team in the 2000's

Barry Jackson wrote this today

The Dolphins are allowing 402 yards per game, which would be worst in franchise history. Previous worst: 383 per game, two seasons ago (Gase’s first as coach).

Also, the Dolphins have permitted 5632 yards in 14 games — which is more than the 5475 that the Dolphins’ 2007 team that went 1-15.

Considering our offense has been almost as bad .... I'm not sure how Ross can justify giving Gase more time other than "just because".  The numbers certainly do not support it.  I mean ... it isn't like we are trending up in year three.

I don't understand how you can put that on Gase. He's not the defensive coordinator. He's not a defensive minded head coach. He leaves the defensive side to the defensive coordinator. It's his defensive coordinators that have been bad, not Gase. The fact that Miami is 7-7 with such a horrible defense is testament enough that Gase has actually done enough offensively to counteract the horrible defense. Miami went 10-6 and made the playoffs 2 years ago and that horrible defense. Give Gase a better defense, one that can hold onto a lead and help you stay close in the early parts of games till the offense can get rolling and Miami will win a lot more games. That's pretty much been proven with Gase's time here.

Maybe we could get lucky and Dallas will fall apart and Jerry Jones will fire the whole staff and Miami could get Rod Marinelli to be defensive coordinator. The Cowboys defensive roster isn't that good, it really isn't. Marinelli has them playing way above their heads. I'd love to see him coach here with Gase.

MIA is 23rd in the league in scoring.

Gase isn't the offensive coordinator. He is the head coach and as such the whole team is his responsibility.

And they are 30th in the league in being scored against. If they were 20th in the league in being scored against I'd bet that Miami would be in the top 15 in scoring. You have to have the ball to score and field position also plays a big part of scoring. Miami's defense is so bad unless they get a turnover Miami is typically starting drives from their own 25. Now you can argue that a lack of scoring on the offensive end of the field also means the defense gives up more points, but then I'd argue that Miami has one of the best punters in the league so that's not really all that true. Haack does a pretty good job of flipping the field the problem is that the defense rarely holds a team to a 3 and out. When they don't give up points they are still forcing the offense to drive the length of the field to score.

That's just my opinion I could be wrong.

Then have Gase fire the offensive and defensive coordinators. I'm down with that.

I also think Gase has to go...The team is not trending in the right direction. Defense is playing better than offense, which is Gase's specialty. I honestly thought he was overrated from the beginning. Peyton Manning will make alot of coaches look good, just like Aaron Rodgers. And Miami hired both of those rookie coaches (Joe Philbin, Adam Gase) and its a bust. I'd hire more experienced HC, maybe defensive minded, bring in good OC, and DEF bring in a new QB that can either rplace Tannehill or back him up and as soon as team is struggling plug in the new QB and thats it.

No they're not. Let's look at some stats:

2018 Offense
Yards per play: 5.5
Yards per play rank: 21
Points per game: 21.1
Points per game rank: 23

2018 Defense
Yards per play: 6.2
Yards per play rank: 31
Points per game: 26.7
Points per game rank: 27

1) The head coach is responsible for the performance of the defense AND offense.  Again, Gase is not offensive coordinator.
2) Even if we completely ignore the defense, the offense has been pathetic.  The best the offense has ever performed under Gase was 17th (i.e. bottom half of the league).  And when Ryan Tannehill - who is no amazing star in this league! - went down and Gase handpicked his guy to pay $10M for one season, the offense finished 28th.  Gase's response to this was... to get rid of his two best offensive skill position players.

edit: One more thing:

The team directly behind the Dolphins (27th, 374) in points against is the Kansas City Chiefs (28th, 380).
KC is 1st in scoring.  MIA is 23rd.
Explain how your defense allowing lots of points means your offense cannot be any good.

edit: OK, I lied.  ANOTHER thing:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/thirdDownConvPct

MIA is 30th in the league in total number of first downs and 31st in third-down conversion percentage.  KC's defense is worse than MIA's and they are #1 in total first downs, #4 in third-down conversion percentage.

Why should we ignore the defense? It's a team game. There's plenty of people pointing out the flaws in the offense, I'm just trying to counter that rhetoric.

I didn't say it's couldn't be done I said it makes it harder on your offense when your defense is bad which it does. The fact that KC has been able to overcome it just makes it that much more remarkable for KC's offense.

I'm not trying to prop up Miami's offense, I'm just saying the defense has been worse and they haven't lost as many players to injury as the offense has. Miami's offense was better before Josh Sitton, Daniel Kilgore, Ryan Tannehill, Albert Wilson and Jakeem Grant went down to injury. It's a shell of it's former self. The defense hasn't lost anywhere near as many key players for long stretches of time as the offense.

Let me clarify my statement:

Even if we completely ignore the defense that Adam Gase - as the head coach - is responsible for, the offense (that he's also responsible for!) has been pathetic, too.

It also makes it harder on your defense when your offense can't get a first down and the defense is on the field all game.

On a related note, MIA is 31st in time of possession (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/average-time-of-possession-net-of-ot).

Josh Sitton played one game this year.  It's silly to call the offense "a shell of it's former self" based on a single (seven-hour-long!) game.

But fine, let's go with Kilgore.  He was lost for the season after Week 4.  So what were MIA's offensive rankings after 4 games?

Scoring: 26th (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game?date=2018-10-02) (now: 23rd!)
Yards per game: 30th (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-game?date=2018-10-02) (now: 29th)
Third-down conversion %: 27th (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct?date=2018-10-02) (now: 31st)
Time of possession: 30th (https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/average-time-of-possession-net-of-ot?date=2018-10-02) (now: 31st)

That's not "a shell of its former self." That's virtually the same team.

At that point, MIA was as healthy as can reasonably be expected and half of their games were against two of the worst teams in the league.  This was Adam Gase's offense operating at peak 2018 performance.  Every ranking was between 26 and 30.

There is of course more to wins and losses than just the coach, but at the end of the day, coaches are deemed successful or unsuccessful based solely on their record.  Not saying that I'm a Gase fan, but if you look back on the last 14 years, the Fins' record under numerous coaches shows that their problems run deeper than just who the head coach is.  

Coach          Year                  Wins      Losses    Pct.
Jim Bates     2004                    3            4         .429
Nick Saban   2005 - 2006         15          17       .469
Cameron      2007                    1            15      .063
Sparano       2008 - 2011         29          32       .475
Bowles         2011                   2            1         .667
Philbin         2012 - 2015         24           28      .462   
Campbell     2015                    5             7        .417
Gase            2016 - Present      23          23       .500  

I must be honest that I did go look for these stats but couldn't find them and I am rather shocked by them. The offense has been even worse then I thought. Still it reinforces the idea that Miami at 7-7 has outperformed expectations. I'm willing to give Gase another year or 2 to see if he can continue to make over the roster and see what he can do with a better roster.

Currently, Miami is the only team in the NFL that is ranked in the bottom 5 in total Offense and total Defense!!!
That is embarrassing. Someone has to be accountable for this, its B.S !!! And its one thing if Miami finishes with a losing record but they are trending in the right direction, but instead Miami is getting worse and worse year after year since Gase took over. I know HC and QBs get too much credit when team wins and most blame if they lose. But in this situation, Gase is responsible for the entire team, OFF & DEF. Unless he fires himself first, he's gotta go after an experience DEF cord. There might be few good ones available after the season. For ex. Todd Bowels, Mike Smith, Marvin Lewis maybe? someone who's been around for a while instead of all these first time coaches Miami/Gase picks. Im tired of rookie head coaches! If Mark Shwartz would be interested in Miami's job, I'd fire Gase as soon as id find out if I was VP, or GM. Another guy, despite some ppl not liking him that I would offer a HC job or at leas DC is Greg Williams, that guy always makes defenses better wherever he goes.
I dont even wanna think too much about it, but if Miami doesnt release Tannebuam and/or Gase, Im gonna be really pissed. Miamis DEF sucked under Vance Joseph too, Gase promoted Matt Burke but after seeing that their currents defensive system is not working, why hold onto those guys. Maybe keep some but it makes sense to go after a good DC duhh. Ughhhhh!!!
And to make evrything even worse, Gase decided to get rid of some of Miami's bet players in the same season. (Suh, Pouncey, Ajayi, Landry) Couple are understandable, but I'd keep Landry and pay the man cuz he sure eserved it. He was Miamis best offensive player and most consistent since prolly Ricky Williams. Instead Gase wanted A.Wilson and D.Amendola. instead. As good as Wilson looked early on, Landry was a proven playmaker! And for Miami not to rewrd him with a new contract is B.S. If right now Miami had Stills, Landry and Parker as 3 starting WRs im sure we'd be in much better spot. I think its time for Tannehill to be o his way out. If Miami can get a very good QB thru the draft im def taking him. Even 1st rounder. RT had 7 years to be the QB for this team, obviously its not working!! Bring a good rookie to be the future or go after QBs like Brigewater if possible!

I think today's game kind of sealed his fate. Injuries really sucked this year, but we had back to back miracle wins against Buffalo and New England, so it's not like we are much better than our record.

Take the O-Line coach with you too, since apparently they are always worthless.

Gase is an automaton.

if this is correct gase stays, tannenbum is out

Report: Dolphins Expected To Fire Mike Tannenbaum, Keep Head Coach Adam Gase

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/26/miami-dolphins-mike-tannenbaum-hot-seat?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&__twitter_impression=true (https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/12/26/miami-dolphins-mike-tannenbaum-hot-seat?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&__twitter_impression=true)

rumors are marino will take tannenbaums's job

Didn't he do that already and then resigned a couple months later?

in 2004

^Man, time flies, that felt like just a few year ago.

It says that Tannenbaum really doesn't have much power and that Gase has final say on the 53 man roster and other moves. I had no idea he had that much power. If true, how can he keep his job after finishing the season 4-9 or 5-8?

I kind of liked our offseason moves in 2018, although our drafting could be better. I wouldn't mind starting from scratch coaching wise because we do have some talent on this team. With the right guys in place, I feel like we can pull a Sparano and go 11-5 next year.

If I was the Dolphins owner I would not allow this to happen.  First, he already was given the job and stepped away after a bit.  Who's to say he won't do it again?  But more importantly, what does he bring to the table in terms of talent evaluation?   He may be one of the greatest QBs of all time but that doesn't make him a good talent evaluator.   Look around at the successful coaches and GMs in this league.   You'll notice most of them were backup players.  Very few of them were stars.   Backups spend more time behind the scenes studying everything that the stars on the field don't have time to be doing.

As a Patriots fan, I am thrilled to have Marino take over the reigns

Never once did I ever hear make single comment on CBS and went “wow that is insightful “. Also it is pretty well know he got by on natural talent.  And while that made him a great QB, he never was a “film guy “.   No doubt putting him in charge will be popular with a segment of the fan base, the downside of that is if he sucks, it will be a lot harder to fire him than someone like Tannenbaum or Gase.

I am sure  some will say if Elway can so can Marino.  Elway spent 5 years running an arena football team. 

^1st off, not going to take a Patriots fan's word on anything that has to do with his rival team's best player.  Who on CBS has made a comment and you went "wow that's insightful?"  If we're talking about QBs, Boomer is garbage, Phil Simms is garbage, other stations Steve Young is garbage, Troy Aikmen is garbage...other than Romo, none of them are insightful.  Also, you are only assuming he only got by on "natural talent", and I would have to assume that has to do with his rep coming out of college.  To that, I'd say he's spent a great amount of time in the film room with the QBs since 2014.   Elway spent 5 years running an arena football team, yes, but Marino has had his hand in the Dolphins organization pretty much since he retired, in some facet.  I'm not saying he'll succeed, I'm saying your perspective is skewed.

you don’t have to agree with my opinion, but i am straight shooter.  i honestly think tannehil is a good but not great qb, i honestly believe the dolphins biggest weakness is the oline, and i honestly believe that giving Marino thr reigns is a mistake.

I don't know if giving Marino the reigns would be a mistake. I do agree on the O-line issue. You can have prime Dan Marino and his performance would look similar to Tannehill's with this line. That's why I said in a separate thread that this needs to be addressed first, and I'd really like to see Miami dedicate their entire 2019 draft to the offensive line. Get two starters out of it and be done with the position for the next half decade.

Marino at GM seems like a terrible idea to me.

I don't want Marino as a GM, but would like to see what he can accomplish in an executive capacity.

If there's any truth to the rumor, I doubt they are handing over the reigns to Marino. A lot of it depends on what they would want Marino to do. If they want Marino to be the architect of the roster then I would agree that seems like something he doesn't have much experience in. On the other hand if all they ask him to do is find the players that Gase wants, that might be something he could do. I do think Marino could look at a player and determine if he has the attributes that Gase is wanting in a player. That's not really all that tough and I believe that's exactly what Marino has been doing lately going to player workouts and giving a report on what he saw. Now I think it's been mostly QB's and such, but Marino played enough and at least watched enough film to be able to evaluate a workout and report that Gase. That's not turning over the reigns to him, not by a long shot. And don't tell me that's not what a VP does, a VP does whatever you ask him to do.

Well if Gase is kept around for another year, it's likely he will lose some of the power that he has had.  It would be nice if they could bring back Vance Josephs as DC once he is fired by Denver.

...I would be OK with keeping Gase as long as they fire Tannenbaum, maybe replace him with Dan Marino, I mean theres gotta be a reason why Marino is a "special advisor" to the owner. I honestly think Marino was brought in to take over the football operations for Tannenbaum if needed to. I'd DEF give Marino a chance. Him and Grier can then evaluate Gase, and as long as Gase is on board to change QB's and bring in better/experienced Defensive Cord. then give Gase one more year. But right now our Vice Pres. sux, Coaching sux, and maybe Tannehill is not the reason we're losing games but he sure isn't the reason why we're winning them. Plus its a perfect time to walk away from Ryan T. Go after Nick Foles, Bridgewater, maybe Chase Daniels. And other obvious on-field upgrades needed are O-line and D-line. Tannehill had 7 years, its not like he'll be missed. I think he only had 1 game over 200 passing yards. Miami's ranked in bottom 5 on offense and defense, you cant get much worse than that, so you gotta make major changes, starting with Tannenbaum and seriously consider the Head Coach. Foles or Bridgewater may be harder to bring to Miami, but im sure Sam Bradford can come, as long as he can stay healthy, def an upgrade.

Are you kidding me??? I am sick of gases play calling! Did you not see him begging for help against the jets and sitting by himself flipping through plays...LOST..The jets!! we only won that game because they lost on their own! We did not beat them. And that happened a couple of times this year. Lets go to last year. He brought in cutler which as a fan I had hopes but everyone else knew there was no hope hence he was about to sit at a desk and be an announcer. I wont blame him for giving cutler 10 million but I will for not bouncing him.The whole time Kapernick was available and probably is still better than anything we have now"politics be damned"! His calls 1st 10 hand off back field...2nd 16 throw to back field...3rd 25 throw to back field...PUNT! I am hopeful for a regime change from the top down. Honestly who thought tannenbaum was sudenly going to be good"Look at the jets". As far as who ever does take over how great would it be to bring Mike Shula from the Giants, Qb coach and OC in as HC! I think it would be awesome if a Shula righted the ship. Of course he would need a lot of pieces. We need to start a movement to get Shula. Why not???

Marino running the team isn’t going to happen but if it did could he do any worse?

Gase has to go along with Tannenbaum and Burke.

The Dolphins were 2-3 against playoff teams (one of those wins thanks to the miracle in Miami).  Two of the three losses the team didn't bother showing up (New England week four and Houston week eight).  The third loss against the Colts was due to a complete collapse in the 4th quarter.

They were 5-6 against non-playoff teams.  All 6 of those losses were by double digits.  They lost by 10 to the Bengals and Jaguars.  They lost to the Packers by 19 points.  They lost to the Vikings by 24 points and closed out the season by losing by 25 points to the Bills.

I just pray that if the Dolphins do fire Gase, that Ross is not stupid enough to contact this clown:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/rex-ryan-reportedly-interested-in-dolphins-job-if-adam-gase-fired/

The whole team needs to be blown up.  If you do that you have to keep Gase around long enough to see that through.  Whoever ends up as head coach this year needs to build an offense that can play on the road and in cold weather and a defense that doesn't routinely give up 30+ points a game.