The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

TDMMC Forums => Dolphins Discussion => Topic started by: EDGECRUSHER on November 09, 2019, 07:19:04 pm



Title: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 09, 2019, 07:19:04 pm
Gotta be honest, I'm leaning towards Burrow right now after seeing this game. I will gladly take either, but if we get that #1 pick, we got a decision on our hands.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 09, 2019, 07:20:47 pm
Hahaha, and Tua throws an 85 yard TD immediately. With an onside kick, they can win this.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: BuccaneerBrad on November 09, 2019, 08:10:28 pm
I'd take Burrow if I were you.   I'd take him to replace Jameis


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 10, 2019, 07:11:01 pm
Nevermind, we won't be able to draft either.

Maybe we can still get Chase Owens, I don't care much for the Oregon kid.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 10, 2019, 08:00:17 pm
The Dolphins are living out the phrase “Effing up a wet dream.”


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 11, 2019, 08:18:59 am
So I guess we are on the "F up for Fromm" train now?


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 11, 2019, 08:52:33 am
So I guess we are on the "F up for Fromm" train now?

No, now it's either Chase Owens or trade down and acquire more picks. I think this is a 2 QB race and I don't want to be dumb and waste a Top 5 pick on a QB who isn't worthy of it, just because we need a QB. That's what the Jets, Bills, Bears and Giants did and it ain't looking pretty for them right now.

Yes, QB is the #1 need for any championship winning team, but calling anyone a franchise QB doesn't make it so. If we are out of the Top 4, I would prefer trading down if it nets us an additional first rounder in the teens.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: kidDyn0mite on November 11, 2019, 09:41:39 am
none of the above


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 11, 2019, 09:43:52 am
none of the above

You got another QB in mind or you think they are just busts?


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 11, 2019, 09:47:43 am
No, now it's either Chase Owens or trade down and acquire more picks. I think this is a 2 QB race and I don't want to be dumb and waste a Top 5 pick on a QB who isn't worthy of it, just because we need a QB. That's what the Jets, Bills, Bears and Giants did and it ain't looking pretty for them right now.

Yes, QB is the #1 need for any championship winning team, but calling anyone a franchise QB doesn't make it so. If we are out of the Top 4, I would prefer trading down if it nets us an additional first rounder in the teens.
I don't see us picking in the top 3. Playing like we are we will definitely get 2 more wins and possibly 3 which will have us jumping more of these teams.

Currently...
Cincinnati Bengals (0-9)
Washington Redskins (1-8)
New York Giants (2-8)
Miami Dolphins (2-7)
New York Jets (2-7)
Atlanta Falcons (2-7)
Cleveland Browns (3-6)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (3-6)
Denver Broncos (3-6)
Arizona Cardinals  (3-6-1)


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: kidDyn0mite on November 11, 2019, 09:50:45 am
You got another QB in mind or you think they are just busts?

if we talking who the dolphins will take then it's none of the above.. we won't be in position to draft either one

but either one would be an upgrade to we have now..


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 11, 2019, 09:59:52 am
I don't see us picking in the top 3. Playing like we are we will definitely get 2 more wins and possibly 3 which will have us jumping more of these teams.

Currently...
Cincinnati Bengals (0-9)
Washington Redskins (1-8)
New York Giants (2-8)
Miami Dolphins (2-7)
New York Jets (2-7)
Atlanta Falcons (2-7)
Cleveland Browns (3-6)
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (3-6)
Denver Broncos (3-6)
Arizona Cardinals  (3-6-1)

Bengals are running the table to go 0-16 and I think the Redskins are done winning as well. So, at best we are picking 3rd but both QBs will be gone by then. If we are picking around 8th or 9th, I would just trade down for more picks. We have lots of holes and I don't want to trade several first rounders just to move up and take one of the QBs. Gotta come up with a new game plan, we didn't factor in the complete loss of dignity that other NFL franchises had this year. We legitimately got rid of every piece of talent we had and we have 2 wins, what the hell is their excuse?


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: MaineDolFan on November 11, 2019, 10:11:35 am
It's not out of the realm of possibility to trade into the one or two.  Miami should be drafting three or four and they have two other first round picks and other valuable chips.  One of the teams in front of them (Giants) do not need a QB (the Jets do but won't draft one).  It's also possible to trade the overall four, along with the Pittsburgh one and get into the overall 1 (or 2). 

It's just frustrating to do that when all they needed to do was not screw up this season.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Pappy13 on November 11, 2019, 10:20:30 am
So, at best we are picking 3rd but both QBs will be gone by then.
Chase Young would be very nice consolation prize. We need a DE more than a QB at this point I would say.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 11, 2019, 10:20:46 am
It's not out of the realm of possibility to trade into the one or two.  Miami should be drafting three or four and they have two other first round picks and other valuable chips.  One of the teams in front of them (Giants) do not need a QB (the Jets do but won't draft one).  It's also possible to trade the overall four, along with the Pittsburgh one and get into the overall 1 (or 2). 

It's just frustrating to do that when all they needed to do was not screw up this season.

We won 2 in a row and still have the Jets and Bengals on the schedule, plus other bad or mediocre teams. I don't see how we don't end up with at least 4 wins and that will probably knock us down to 7th or 8th. If all it took was our first rounder and the Steelers or Texans one, I make that trade. However, with other teams possibly putting together trade packages and the Bengals and Skins legit needing a franchise QB, seems unlikely.

If we are developing stars now, then I can see it being justified. However, if we are just stealing wins from bad teams and these guys aren't legit NFL starters, then that blows.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Fau Teixeira on November 11, 2019, 11:14:19 am
we should take our top 10 1st round pick and trade down into the teens .. pick up more picks and go from there to build up our team


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 11, 2019, 11:22:00 am
Chase Young would be very nice consolation prize. We need a DE more than a QB at this point I would say.

If he were available when we pick, then I would agree but with each passing week that seems less and less likely. He is not falling past #3 and we would need to not win another game to pick that high. That's almost impossible with the Bengals still on the schedule.

We picked the wrong year to tank.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Pappy13 on November 11, 2019, 11:33:49 am
If he were available when we pick, then I would agree but with each passing week that seems less and less likely. He is not falling past #3 and we would need to not win another game to pick that high. That's almost impossible with the Bengals still on the schedule.

We picked the wrong year to tank.
Don't forget that Miami still has a lot of draft picks to move up in the draft. Not everyone needs a QB or a DE. Not out of the question for Miami to move up to #2 or #3 to get who they want. #1 will probably be out of the question assuming that goes to the Bungles. Redskins might be willing to work a trade for additional draft picks. Personally I'm excited that the tank for Tua rhetoric is over. Time to get real.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 11, 2019, 12:09:38 pm
We can definitely trade up with our draft picks, but there are two problems with that:

1) We are assuming the top 2 teams don't need a franchise QB. If those teams are the Bengals and Redskins, that is incredibly unlikely. Haskins has to put on a show for the Redskins to justify passing on one of the top QBs.

2) Other teams want them too, so will the asking price be worth it? Are we going to trade 3 1st Rounders to move up 6 spots? That is a steep asking price but there is always some stupid NFL team who throws away future drafts for that one guy. The Rams traded 6 picks to move up and get Jared Goff. While he definitely had initial success, seems like he was exposed as a system QB by the Pats and this year he is garbage. Plus, last year may have been the Rams one last shot at a championship since they have no reinforcements coming due to the trade.

At most, I would trade our pick and one of the other first rounders to move up a few spots to bet one of the two QBs. Throw in a 3rd rounder too if that seals the deal, but anything more will be rough since we have holes everywhere.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: masterfins on November 11, 2019, 02:12:48 pm
we should take our top 10 1st round pick and trade down into the teens .. pick up more picks and go from there to build up our team

The problem with that is that usually teams only trade up to those early picks for QB's, which most here are saying won't be available.  And since the Dolphins need top players at practically every position why would they trade down to get an extra mediocre player from the 5th round?  Doesn't make sense to me.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: masterfins on November 11, 2019, 02:18:08 pm
I actually like Herbert from Oregon.  He's more mature having played in college for four seasons; and in spite of having three different HC's and three different offensive schemes in his first three years, he has managed to succeed.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Spider-Dan on November 11, 2019, 04:14:25 pm
If you're telling me that MIA needed to throw the season in the trash and get rid of nearly every promising young player just to draft Justin Herbert, I'm going to have a problem with that logic.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 11, 2019, 04:35:29 pm
If you're telling me that MIA needed to throw the season in the trash and get rid of nearly every promising young player just to draft Justin Herbert, I'm going to have a problem with that logic.

I'm going to have some problems making a noose for my neck.

I don't trust any QB from Oregon or USC.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Dolphster on November 13, 2019, 08:53:41 am
As bad as this team needs a QB, I wouldn't shed any tears if they got Chase Young.  QBs are always a roll of the dice as it is and Chase Young is probably more of a "sure thing" than any of the QBs.   


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 13, 2019, 10:26:19 am
As bad as this team needs a QB, I wouldn't shed any tears if they got Chase Young.  QBs are always a roll of the dice as it is and Chase Young is probably more of a "sure thing" than any of the QBs.   

Not at all, Chase Young is a difference maker like Bosa. Instantly makes your defense much better. Of course, he is looking like a pipe dream as well. We may have to set our sights on that Top Left Tackle expected to go top 10 as well.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: masterfins on November 13, 2019, 01:36:12 pm
If you're telling me that MIA needed to throw the season in the trash and get rid of nearly every promising young player just to draft Justin Herbert, I'm going to have a problem with that logic.

I'm not saying that.  What I mean is if he's around in the 2nd round I wouldn't have a problem with Miami drafting him there.  Some of the better QB's playing now were the 4th, or 5th QB drafted and weren't expected to be as good as they are, conversely as we know the top rated QB's drafted can easily end up being busts.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Sunstroke on November 14, 2019, 10:46:58 am

I did a 4 round mock on Fanspeak last night that, through dealing a couple of next year's picks, I was able to come out of the first round with Chase Young and Joe Burrow.

I know, I know...not realistic, but it sure felt good watching Miami get both. ;)



Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 14, 2019, 11:10:38 am
I did a 4 round mock on Fanspeak last night that, through dealing a couple of next year's picks, I was able to come out of the first round with Chase Young and Joe Burrow.

I know, I know...not realistic, but it sure felt good watching Miami get both. ;)


That would be a dream come true!! We need to sign you as our GM right away!


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 14, 2019, 03:40:01 pm
I'm not saying that.  What I mean is if he's around in the 2nd round I wouldn't have a problem with Miami drafting him there.  Some of the better QB's playing now were the 4th, or 5th QB drafted and weren't expected to be as good as they are, conversely as we know the top rated QB's drafted can easily end up being busts.

Unless some video of him smoking crack comes out on draft day, he won't drop to the 2nd round. Now, if he drops to the late teens where we will probably pick again then I think Miami may take that shot.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 18, 2019, 02:13:49 pm
I guess this thread answered itself over the weekend. I hope Tua recovers but he lost a ton of money even if he can play again.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 18, 2019, 03:12:01 pm
I guess this thread answered itself over the weekend. I hope Tua recovers but he lost a ton of money even if he can play again.

Yeah, he set himself up to fall to the late 1st round if not worse depending on his medicals. Only a team with multiple first rounders would take him now....hey, wait a minute!

But seriously, he might return to Alabama now if he feels he will lose out financially with not going in the 1st round for medical reasons.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 18, 2019, 03:14:15 pm
The surgery was a success and he is expected to make a full recovery, but obviously this has effected his draft status. So, assuming he still declares for the draft, who picks him? This was a major injury and teams don't like to gamble with their Top 3 picks on injured players. How far would he fall?


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: stinkfish on November 18, 2019, 03:24:54 pm
I could see the Patriots taking a chance on him because they do stuff like that.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on November 18, 2019, 03:37:16 pm
I could see the Patriots taking a chance on him because they do stuff like that.

Patriots could be an option.  So could Dolphins.  He is probably no longer a top 10 pick, but late 1st round or second round.  Only way Dolphins draft him is if they are willing to do another year of Fitz/Rosen.  Can’t use two early picks on QB (even if you have nine of them)  So now he gets drafted by a team that WANTS a QB but doesn’t NEED a QB.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Dolphster on November 18, 2019, 04:26:30 pm
It will certainly be interesting to watch it all play out. 


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 18, 2019, 04:26:38 pm
Patriots could be an option.  So could Dolphins.  He is probably no longer a top 10 pick, but late 1st round or second round.  Only way Dolphins draft him is if they are willing to do another year of Fitz/Rosen.  Can’t use two early picks on QB (even if you have nine of them)  So now he gets drafted by a team that WANTS a QB but doesn’t NEED a QB.
I don't see the Dolphins being able to draft him. He's a risk and the last thing the Dolphin's can afford to do is take the risk picks. We've been burned over and over by doing that. We need three solid starters in the first and second round of this draft.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Pappy13 on November 19, 2019, 10:43:28 am
The surgery was a success and he is expected to make a full recovery...
Don't be so sure. I heard on the radio this morning from a guy who had the exact same injury that you never know about this type of injury. Even if it seems fine in 6 months you can still have problems with it 3 years down the line. He said in his case the ball (part of the ball and socket joint) didn't die until 3 years after his injury and he had to have a complete hip replacement then. This is exactly what happened to Bo Jackson as well. So sure he is expected to make a full recovery, but there's always the chance this could cut his career short if not necessarily end it right away. There's absolutely no way that I'm taking a chance on the guy now. Look elsewhere, there are other QB's with fewer red flags and nearly as many positives.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 19, 2019, 10:52:18 am
Does make a full recovery mean he will lead a normal life or be able to play football? I'm not so sure full recovery means "as good as new".


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Dolphster on November 19, 2019, 11:00:28 am
Regardless of the impact for the Dolphins, I really hope Tua can still have a football career after this injury.  It would be a terrible shame to see the career of such a talented athlete end before it really even begins. 


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 19, 2019, 04:32:55 pm
Does make a full recovery mean he will lead a normal life or be able to play football? I'm not so sure full recovery means "as good as new".

Just going by what a few places are saying. If we pick around 8 and he is till there, we should strongly consider taking him as long as our medical staff is fine with his medicals. Hopefully, the Steelers pick will be around 15 so we can use that to improve in 2020 while Tua sits the whole season and learns.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Pappy13 on November 20, 2019, 07:52:05 am
Just going by what a few places are saying. If we pick around 8 and he is till there, we should strongly consider taking him as long as our medical staff is fine with his medicals. Hopefully, the Steelers pick will be around 15 so we can use that to improve in 2020 while Tua sits the whole season and learns.
I think I'm starting to see that you have a man crush on Tua. No wonder you have been so high on the Dolphins tanking this season. Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If Tua was not available to be drafted would you still have been on board with them being 0-16?


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 20, 2019, 09:02:40 am
I think I'm starting to see that you have a man crush on Tua. No wonder you have been so high on the Dolphins tanking this season. Let me ask you a hypothetical question. If Tua was not available to be drafted would you still have been on board with them being 0-16?

I never wanted them to go 0-16, I just wanted them to be bad enough to get the first pick. However, the Gods are cruel and made it so that a 3-13 record would have you pick 6th this season.

I wanted a legit franchise QB above all else. I don't want a QB taken in the first round, I want a franchise QB taken in the first round and it appears there are only 2 "sure things" in this draft and until the injury, we weren't going to get either of them. Can't build a winner without a QB and I don't want to draft a Sam Darnold just because he is the best of what there is.

To better answer your question, unless we were going 10-6 and making the playoffs, I am fine with tanking. I see no difference between 5-11 and 0-16. If no QB was on the board, I would still take 0-16 over 5-11 if it meant getting the best player available to help rebuild.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 20, 2019, 10:10:20 am
The latest CBS mock has us taking two O-linemen and a pass rusher in the first while taking a QB in the second. I don't think I'm against that although I'd love 4 new starters.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Sunstroke on November 20, 2019, 10:54:05 am
I don't see the Dolphins being able to draft him. He's a risk and the last thing the Dolphin's can afford to do is take the risk picks. We've been burned over and over by doing that. We need three solid starters in the first and second round of this draft.

Miami has 5 picks in the first two rounds, so maybe 3-4 solid starters and a high-ceiling risk player?

Don't get me wrong...I am all about Joe Burrow and Justin Herbert at this point, but if Miami isn't able to draft either, maybe a flyer on Tua...in case Miami doesn't get Lawrence in 2021. ;)



Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 20, 2019, 11:30:14 am
The latest CBS mock has us taking two O-linemen and a pass rusher in the first while taking a QB in the second. I don't think I'm against that although I'd love 4 new starters.

It is impossible for us to do any mock drafts without knowing where we pick, that changes absolutely everything. On the bright side, if we do pick 8th or so, we can either select the best player or trade down for more picks. We have lots of holes so we can use whoever is the best player available at that moment. I do feel we would trade down though depending on the offer.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: CF DolFan on November 21, 2019, 10:04:21 am
Kim Bokemper and Joe Rose were discussing this on the radio this morning. They were saying how they are tired of the Dolphins drafting "injured" players and hoping they will work out. We keep getting burned by that and need to draft solid players who can contribute now. They then went on to talk about all the stud QBs who were drafted and then killed behind bad lines. If its up to them we will build our lines this year and draft a QB once that has been established. 


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: EDGECRUSHER on November 21, 2019, 11:53:48 am
Kim Bokemper and Joe Rose were discussing this on the radio this morning. They were saying how they are tired of the Dolphins drafting "injured" players and hoping they will work out. We keep getting burned by that and need to draft solid players who can contribute now. They then went on to talk about all the stud QBs who were drafted and then killed behind bad lines. If its up to them we will build our lines this year and draft a QB once that has been established. 

1000% we need to fix our O-Line. I'm hoping we use 2 of our First Rounders on them and buy the best available LT, RT or Center in free agency. We have the draft capital and cap space to turn our Line into the league's best within one season.

I am usually against drafting injured players too unless it's a 1st round talent taken in the 5th round. However, the potential for a franchise QB who may not even fall to 8th in the draft when we already have two other 1st rounders? That might be a risk I am willing to take. Our history shows we can't take anyone drafted out of the 1st round and turn them into a legit NFL QB, so this year is our shot. Not to mention my own belief that we will be 8-8 next year with smart moves and we won't be picking Top 10 again and I don't want a QB who falls into the 20s.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Pappy13 on November 21, 2019, 12:48:23 pm
Kim Bokemper and Joe Rose were discussing this on the radio this morning. They were saying how they are tired of the Dolphins drafting "injured" players and hoping they will work out. We keep getting burned by that and need to draft solid players who can contribute now. They then went on to talk about all the stud QBs who were drafted and then killed behind bad lines. If its up to them we will build our lines this year and draft a QB once that has been established.  
I'm fine with this and have Rosen be the QB in 2020 for the whole year or at least give him the whole year to either prove himself or prove that he's not the QB going forward and make that decision next year. Either Rosen shows himself to be a decent QB and we win enough games to convince you that you don't need to pick a QB in the top half of the draft or he doesn't and you'll lose enough games to be picking in the top half if not the top 5 of the draft and then you can go after a QB. Makes sense to me. Honestly if they don't do this, they aren't fully committing to the process.


Title: Re: Burrow vs. Tua
Post by: Dolphster on November 21, 2019, 03:35:05 pm
Kim Bokemper and Joe Rose were discussing this on the radio this morning. They were saying how they are tired of the Dolphins drafting "injured" players and hoping they will work out. We keep getting burned by that and need to draft solid players who can contribute now. They then went on to talk about all the stud QBs who were drafted and then killed behind bad lines. If its up to them we will build our lines this year and draft a QB once that has been established. 

Yep.  It has been proven time and time again that the war is won in the trenches.  A great offensive line makes everyone on the offense better.  A great offensive line gives the QB more time, opens holes for RBs, and gives WRs more time to get open.  A great offensive line makes "good" skill position players great.  Just like a great d-line makes the rest of the defense look better.  Get after the QB and the secondary doesn't have to stick to receivers as long.  A great d-line shuts down the opponents run game, etc.