The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

So we are getting rid of flags, statues, the founding fathers, and anyone else who may have offended a black person in history. So now what happens? Will people now work harder for their income? Will they be a better mother, father, sister, neighbor, ... or even improve their community? Will illegal drug use go down, will gangs put down their guns and everyone in the hood clean up the streets and parks so it's safe for the kids?

I ask this because everyone is putting in a ton of time and resources into destroying many things but no one seems to care about the tons of black people who actually need help. Hell ... even police reform will only affect a couple dozen people at most. I can't see how these things will make them better off in Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta etc. so maybe you can point it out to me.

Post reduced to its most accurate form

They won't directly help.  I mean...police reform, if we really did it for real, would definitely help.  But we probably won't do that.  We'll eliminate very specific types of policing but still have cops remain as this weird, bloated military force that lectures you for driving too fast.

Statues and flags and Aunt Jemima-type of stuff are symbolic gestures, but they will have a secondary effect.  Societal pressure is actually pretty significant.  It will make it harder to be a closet racist.  And these things will normalize once this dies down to the point where it's harder to be willingly ignorant that it's racist.

A lot of people still don't get that the Confederate flag is a racist symbol.  You hear all this code-speak like "states rights" or "southern pride" but that's bullshit.  It's bullshit just like when you see a Nazi flag, it's not about German socialism.  ...it's anti-Jew.  So, knowing that the flag is so racist that Nascar .....fucking NASCAR won't even let you fly it, if you choose to fly it, you're choosing to be seen as a racist and you're OK with that.

So, it won't make Flint Michigan have clean water and no gun violence, if that's what you're asking.  But that's not what it's for.

It is laughable that you claim police abuse only affects dozens of people. 

Well if we are talking about cops killing people, and that's what started the conversation across American, then that will only affect a couple of dozen people a year.

It started the conversation because it is the most egregious offense possible, caught on video.

But cops, this is just the final stage of a much larger issue.  You ever been lectured by a cop?  I have...multiple times.  Why?  They aren't society daddy out there to teach you a lesson.

You ever had a gun pulled on you?  I have.  A cop thought I stole my own car.  He was in an unmarked car, blocked me in without a light or siren and pulled a gun on when I was in college while screaming like a maniac.

We are asking these men and women to do too many things, arming them like military to do things like hand out tickets and shuffle around homeless people, and can't afford to properly train them in all these areas.  The whole system needs massive overhaul.  Killing unarmed people is just the final tipping point where any head-in-the-sand dingus can even see that the system is too far.  But the system has always been too far.

I completely disagree with you about the flag. I haven't had anything with one on it since maybe early high school and completely understand people having the flag who aren't the slightest racist and see it as a southern symbol. I had an Alabama (the band) wallet that had the flag on it. Th flag equals Dixie in their mind and Dixie is the south.

I have a question. Why do you think that some southern blacks use the confederate flag as well? It has to stand to reason if they say it's pride in being southern that it's the truth ... correct? I mean when they wear the "Heritage not Hate" patch it surely must mean it for them .... or do they hate black people too?

LMAO ... I grew up poor white trash and acted like it until I turned into an adult. I got my first "police ride" when I was about 7 or 8 and was arrested on felony charges at 15. Plenty of other issues in between. I've had plenty of experiences with police and you know what ... I still taught my kids to keep their hands on the wheel and say yes sir and no m'am until they leave.

Kind of funny now but one of my daughters (pretty little cheerleader type) got arrested a couple of years ago on bogus charges. Once the charges reached the DA's desk he dropped them. It never went anywhere the charges were so bogus. In the end she spent a terrifying night in jail, it cost us a couple of thousand dollars and we were pissed but she didn't fight the cop. He got reprimanded afterwards. That's how I would expect anyone to handle a bad situation in a civilized world.

Out of curiosity, do you really feel as though as though - example, Charles Linn "offended black people?" Or the symbol of what the Confederate Flag represents "offended black people?" Because, yikes man.

Not sure what you're asking but I'll give it a shot.  Slavery was and is horrible. Slavery was legal both in the north and the south although we pretend it was only the evil south. In either case ... most people did not own slaves ... even in the south.

Many of white slaves were brought into this country especially up north. The black slaves were sold by other blacks ... and mostly came in from Spain. It was all horrible but hating one ethnicities traditions because of something where everyone was basically complicit is dumb to me. The Civil war was brother against brother ... literally. It wasn't the genocide of millions of blacks so I have a really hard time comparing it to the Nazi regime. To trivialize what Nazis did is a slap in the face to the Jewish community. You will never see a Jew wearing a swastika but plenty of blacks see the flag as heritage. There is a reason why.

I know the last time you mentioned this, your evidence was some pictures from half a century ago.

Is present tense an accurate way to frame that question?

When it came to a literal war over slavery, it was the North fighting to abolish it (which they did immediately after winning) and the South committing treason to defend it.  So it's understandable why people attribute slavery to the "evil South."

Are you saying that the 4-year-long Holocaust was worse than 250+ years of American slavery?

Do you understand what happened during slavery?  Do you know how many millions of black people spent their entire lives as slaves?  How many were brutally killed by their slave masters?  How many died due to malnourishment and other poor treatment?

If you're wondering why defense of the Confederate flag is seen as a thinly-veiled cover for racism, maybe it's because the people always standing up to defend that flag seem to be the same ones downplaying slavery.

12.  Dachau was built in 1933. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp

Dachau originally held Communists, leading Socialists and other "enemies of the state" in 1933, but over time the Nazis began to send German Jews to the camp.

The Nazis certainly existed for more than 4 years, and they persecuted Jews for essentially all of their rule, but the systematic genocide of European Jews did not start until late 1941.  The gas chambers started being added in 1942.

Completely disingenuous to compare 4 years of the holocaust to 250 years of American slavery as if the murders on Kristallnacht were not part of the genocide.  Slavery in the USA lasted 76 years. 

I don't understand what you're saying here. .. I can read the words but the meaning escapes me.
Yes .. you can't just count 1941-1945 as the holocaust, it started way before then.
I guess semantically slavery in the USA went from the declaration of independence to the end of the civil war. Realistically slavery began way before and lasted until well into the 20th century.

If you want to be literal about it, slavery exists to this day in the US. And not in the metaphorical sense.

You got my point.....the holocaust began before 1941, just like slavery in the US began before the ratification of the constitution.

Take it up with historians?  I'm sure you are aware that I'm not giving you my personal definition of when the Holocaust took place.  I would personally say that saying the Holocaust "started" in 1941 (when Hitler gave the order to start exterminating Jews) is not much different than saying slavery "ended" in 1865 (with the passage of the 13th Amendment).

I did also notice that I said "American slavery" and you changed the subject midstream to "Slavery in the USA" (ostensibly so you could make the "76 years" argument). Words matter, and I chose mine intentionally.

Historians peg the date as 1933.  Of the first 20 responses to the search when did the holocaust begin only one says 1941, wikipedia, all the rest have 1933.  Quite frankly your line of argument is as offensive of a thinly vailed form of anti-semitism as waving a confederate flag and shouting white lives matter is racism.

Go on Tik Tok and look for it. You'll have hours of enjoyment.

Here's a few. Sorry so big but I can't host pics from Facebook and other places. Are these people racist as well?

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/07/02/18/2A2DC15F00000578-0-image-a-32_1435857047385.jpg)
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/fa9480033ffa0556ae1be8cd38540a348d657e02/c=0-46-960-588/local/-/media/2015/10/24/IAGroup/DesMoines/635813117024098063-confederate-flag-man-2.jpg?auto=webp&format=pjpg&width=1200)

(https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180521154354-usoa-alabama-ron-3-00004626.jpg)

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/11/02/23/20525932-0-image-a-9_1572736419030.jpg)

One of the guys is being paid to wear it (as evident by his neck badge indicating he is employee of Pence). I am pretty sure the KC fan is just pointing out that the 49rs fan is am asshole, not supporting KC, SF and the confederacy.

Some of them do.  Most do not.

Challenge accepted:

(http://viperbeam.com/forum/google-holocaust.jpg)

I would recommend you take the opportunity to veer towards the offramp in this discussion.  Suffice it to say that your responses to me so far have been lacking basic diligence in doing your homework, and you have written some checks that you can't cash.  Like this one:

Apparently they're grifters, like those ladies Rhinestone and Polyester (or whatever their names are).

Bullshit on challenge accepted. The ONLY ones saying 1941 was wikipedia and you posted wikipedia.  It is MFs like you and Louis Farrakhan that makes it very difficult on your number one ally.  Although Jews make up about 2% of the total US population and 3% of the the white population they were about 50% of the whites who marched in the the 1950s and 60s civil rights movement and while not as disproportionate today still a disproportionately large number of white supporters of BLM.  Then assholes like you peddle this anti-semmetic  bullshit, it really fucking pisses us off.  You’re shitting on your biggest ally.  It doesn’t stop most of us from continuing to support what we believe is right.  Of the 11 people in my high school Jessie Jackson for president club 10 were Jewish.  Seven of whom quit in disgust after the Hymietown incident.  They still supported civil rights but not Jackson.  Fuck you.  I still support the BLM movement because it is what is right but I have lost all respect for you.  I support the Obama and MLK wing of the civil rights movement not the racist Nation of Islam wing which is no better than the KKK.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

When you typed "when did the holocaust begin" into Google, and you were immediately greeted with a result that said 1941 in huge bold numbers (as in the screenshot above), did you perhaps stop to consider that citing 1941 as the start of the Holocaust might not an anti-semitic act, but rather a genuine difference in opinion among historians?  Or is it that you believe Google is "as anti-semitic as waving a confederate flag is racist"?  Have I somehow missed the Google landing page with confederate flags?

Now, about those checks you wrote:

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED

1) (https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/holocaust-remembrance-day/when-did-the-holocaust-begin-1.5323231) "When did the Holocaust actually begin? The answer is not so simple." (paywall)
2) (https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/the-holocaust) "between 1933 and 1945"
3) (https://www.historyhit.com/when-did-the-holocaust-start-key-dates-and-timeline/) "the date that has become commonly associated with the start of the Holocaust is 30 January 1933"
4) Wikipedia, so 1941
5) (https://www.theholocaustexplained.org/how-and-why/) "In 1941, the Nazis’ persecution of the Jews became a genocide. [...] This mass murder became known as the Holocaust."
6) (https://www.ushmm.org/learn/timeline-of-events/1939-1941) "The Holocaust took place in the broader context of World War II." (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
7) (https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-holocaust-and-world-war-ii-key-dates) "The mass murder of Europe’s Jews took place in the context of World War II." (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
8) (https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-holocaust) The Holocaust was the state-sponsored mass murder of millions of Jewish people [...] by the Nazi regime during WWII. (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
9) (https://ec.europa.eu/programmes/erasmus-plus/project-result-content/3a1f33a0-e094-45fd-a7f0-0d5fe29f8d5e/STAGES%20OF%20THE%20HOLOCAUST.pdf) (no specific start date given, but timeline begins in 1933)
10) (https://www.facinghistory.org/sites/default/files/Decision-Making_Injustice_Lesson14_Talking%20Points.pdf) "Six Stages That Led to the Holocaust" - the sixth stage is extermination in death camps, which started in 1941
11) (https://www.un.org/en/holocaustremembrance/PDF/Introduction%20to%20the%20Holocaust.pdf) (no specific start date given, but timeline begins in 1933)
12) (https://www.un.org/en/holocaustremembrance/docs/FAQ%20Holocaust%20EN%20Yad%20Vashem.pdf) "Because Nazi discrimination against the Jews began with Hitler's accession to power in January 1933, many historians consider this the start of the Holocaust era."
13) (https://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/General/TimeEng.html) Title: "A Timeline of the Holocaust (1939-1945)"
14) (https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocaust) "the systematic state-sponsored killing of six million Jewish men, women, and children and millions of others by Nazi Germany and its collaborators during World War II" (so, definitely not before the start of WW2 in September 1939)
15) (https://m.day.kyiv.ua/en/article/topic-day/when-and-where-did-holocaust-begin) "Yet it is unlikely that the Holocaust, i.e., genocide of Jews, began immediately after the Nazis came to power" (this source claims Kristallnacht in 1938 as the start of the Holocaust)
16) (https://www.knesset.gov.il/shoah/eng/ehashoah.htm) "1933-1945"
17) (http://www.museumoftolerance.com/education/teacher-resources/holocaust-resources/36-questions-about-the-holocaust.html#1) "January 30, 1933"
18) (https://guides.lib.jjay.cuny.edu/c.php?g=288386&p=1922582) "It is the sum total of all anti-Jewish actions carried out by the Nazi regime between 1933 and 1945"
19) (https://www.bbc.co.uk/teach/the-holocaust-year-by-year/zkxwgwx) Title: "The Holocaust year by year" (timeline starts in 1933)
20) (https://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/holocaust/timeline.html) (no specific start date given, but the main Holocaust landing page on this site is titled "The Nazi Holocaust 1938-1945")

You claimed that 19 of the top 20 search results give 1933 as the start of the Holocaust.  Using the most generous interpretation possible, the actual number is less than half.  Care to explain this discrepancy?  Furthermore, you originally cited the construction of Dachau - not the election of Hitler - as the start of the Holocaust.  Absolutely no one agrees with that premise.

Now, let's talk about allies.  The question I asked (which CF wisely declined to answer) was, "Are you saying that the 4-year-long Holocaust was worse than 250+ years of American slavery?"  Let us go ahead and stipulate that the start of the Holocaust was 1933, therefore changing the question to "Are you saying that the 12-year-long Holocaust was worse than 250+ years of American slavery?"  Does adding 1933-1940 meaningfully affect your answer to that question?  While we're here, what is your answer to that question?

Finally, I find the grandstanding about shitting on your biggest ally to be pretty rich coming from you.  Or have you forgotten?




Please, tell me more about how Obama's election proved racism is no longer relevant in America.

Today i learned Hoodie is Jewish

Hoodie never lets the facts get in the way of a good tirade.  I will give him credit for his confidence.  No matter how many times he is proven wrong, it never even slows him down.  He marches forward as arrogantly as ever.   When he posted a video that he said "proved" that cops were planting bricks on the street to incite a riot and I responded with an NBC news article which refuted the video and stated that the video was of cops unloading bricks in the Boston police parking lot which they had confiscated off the street, Hoodie never said a word.  No retraction, no apology, just crickets.  But my all time favorite Hoodie moment was when we were discussing police reform and he told me that as a federal law enforcement officer, I "don't deserve to have a voice in the discussion."    I suppose a lot of people would get mad at him, but I get a kick out of  him.  He is the perfect embodiment of arrogant stupidity.  So wrong so often yet always 100% fully confident that he is the sole source of intelligence on TDMMC.   He brings a certain unintended humor to the board which I appreciate. 

Right? I had no idea either.

On a partisan side note... CF has to be really enjoying watching two of his favorite Lefty nemeses arguing with each other over racial issues... ;)

LOL, I was thinking exactly the same thing! 

That's what this place has gotten to. Anyone who isn't a mad lib has bailed or is getting ready to bail on this site. When that happens the only people you guys can argue with is each other.

The guy in the KC hat is a known supporter of the confederacy. I'm not sure how you get the fact that the other guy gets paid to wear it because he is on staff. Call me crazy but it seem like his choice of casual attire would be his own.

How can you guys not remember Hoodie is Jewish? He refused to watch Inglorious Bastards because he felt it painted Jewish people as the villain.

Did it ? .. I remember watching that movie  .. it painted nazi's as the villains .. unless i'm remembering a completely different movie.

You're not, the Nazis were definitely the bad guys in that one.

The irony is that outside of this forum, most of my political disagreements on the internet are with other leftists who think I'm a neoliberal corporatist shill that wants endless war.

So I'm not exactly worried about "liberal infighting" here.

aren't you tho ? .. not so much the endless war part .. but the neoliberal corporatist ?

Fau, that is exactly the correct response from you.  :D

Personally, I like the fact that most of the people here don't share many of my political opinions.  It would be boring to just talk about stuff with people who agree with me.  My stances on things are rarely inline with Dave, Spider, Fau,etc. but for the most part we disagree respectfully and they present a side of things that I wouldn't get if I just talked about current events with people who agree with me.  It helps that I don't take disagreements in here seriously or personally.  We are really just a bunch of faceless internet strangers and none of us should wield enough power with our words to upset each other. 

i aim to please :)

I don’t recall ever commenting on that particular movie, nor any purposeful boycott.  I think I saw the the 1978 version.  I don’t think I have seen the 2009 version but don’t recall boycotting it.  There are plenty of movies I haven’t seen that I am not boycotting. I have seen other Tarantino films and am not much of a fan.

I do boycott Hogan’s Heros because I don’t find the representation of the SS as harmless fools (rather than ruthless psychopaths) to be an entertaining basis for a sitcom.  Yes, I do realize that POW prisoners were treated better than concentration camp inmates but still I don’t find the show entertaining.  I have never protested it or complained it should be taken off the air, I just don’t watch it.

^^^^ I must have read a review of the movie at the time that was on my mind at the time that I no longer recall. 

You know, normally I would just let this slide.  But after that little temper tantrum, I think there needs to be some accountability.

Hoodie, are you even going to attempt to address your "19 out of the top 20 results" total fabrication?  Are you going to address the fact that when YOU typed "when did the holocaust begin" into Google, the result that Google (NOT Wikipedia) immediately produced was 1941, which you promptly ignored right before screaming that I am an anti-semite for citing... the same date that Google itself gives as the standalone answer?

Are you EVER going to acknowledge your Obama's election proved racism is no longer relevant in America nonsense that you repeatedly threw at me prior to Trump's election?  Or do you stand by your previous statements?

Your logic is literally right there, cited by Phishfan.  So why are you acting like "I don't recall reading that review" addresses the point?

Why can't you just accept responsibility and admit you were wrong?  There are more options than radio silence or lame excuses.

See my June 26 comment about him in this thread for the answer to your question.  Throwing out outlandishly incorrect comments, getting mad if you dare to disagree and then completely ignoring the facts when they are presented to him is pretty much his standard procedure.