The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I was pretty upset we didn't see him with 4 minutes left and no realistic chance to win the game so now every losing game we go without playing him will bother me more and more. Dolphins are like number 3 for sacks allowed which is pretty damned good. It's time to move forward and start the learning curve for our most important player.

It was time for Tua in week 1, so yes.

Not just yet, we are competitive and the O-Line is still gelling. If Fitz has a brutal game next week, then maybe the following week against the garbage Broncos.

That young man will get destroyed playing behind that line right now. Dave, I thought you actually liked Tua. :D

From what I have read, the Line is doing a solid job at protecting the QB but a very poor job of opening up lanes for our running backs. I'd rather that than the reverse.

True. You're right. Not a one of these guys can run block.

^ if our guys can't run block, then why are we running up the gut more often than any other team except the Texans? (78% of our runs prior to the Seahawks game). Oddly enough, that appears to be divisional disease. Four of the top eight teams in terms of who runs up the gut the most often are the AFC East. (Although we're in the lead by a very healthy margin over even the Jets).

Next year, maybe....if the offensive line has gelled. Otherwise we're following the 76ers Process:

1. Get a very high first round pick in Year 1
2. Don't play that very high Year 1 pick ("injuries", "lack of seasoning"). Your team is little better as a result
3. Get a very high first round pick in Year 2
4. Don't play that very high Year 2 pick ("injuries", "lack of seasoning"). Give some playing time to your Year 1 lottery pick. Your team is somewhat better, but still a dumpster fire
5. Get a very high first round pick in Year 3
6. Play all three Very High First Round Picks at the same time for the subsequent Year 3.

The 76ers suck and the Process failed.  Meanwhile, the Heat are back in the Finals, while having never drafted earlier than 10th since LeBron left.

I have only one condition for starting Tua:  after Flores pulls that trigger, Fitzpatrick had better not start another game as a Dolphin unless Tua is in street clothes.  It's 100% ride or die from the moment Tua gets his first start.  I'm still dismayed by how they handled Rosen last year.

I understand your logic, but the big difference is that basketball has 5 starters.  So the "three Very High First Round Picks" that you talk about represent 60% of the starting lineup which is obviously a substantial part of the team.  In football, you have 22 starters (not counting special team) so "three Very High First Round Picks" only represent 13.6% of the starting lineup.  13.6% can make a difference of course, but nowhere near the impact that 60% does. 

it will be time for Tua when we get past the 49'ers and are playing the part of the schedule where we should have a chance to win games and if Fitzpatrick is not providing enough offense to win those games. Until then Fitzpatrick is NOT the reason we aren't winning. He's doing his part so far in holding things together and making us competitive, but after the 49'ers game it will be time to start winning some of these games. If he fails to do that, then it will be time to give Tua his chance to see if he can do it or if not, get some valuable playing experience.

Flores confused the media yesterday. First he said Tua checks all the boxes, has no health issues from the hip, and is ready to play. He then follows up with saying Tua if Tua was his kid and he wouldn't want to put his kid in after such a bad injury.

I saw that too.  I never put any stock in anything that politicians or sports coaches say to the media. 

I think you left out the important part of that statement. He continued with "I wouldn’t want his coach to be in a rush to put him in there because of media pressure... No one is going to pressure me into doing anything.” Nothing has changed from last year when everyone was saying they should start Rosen just for the sake of seeing him play. He's going to play whenever Flores thinks Tua gives him the best chance to win the game. Right now that's apparently Fitz.

That will never happen then. There is no way when Tua comes in he will be better than Fitz in orchestrating our offense from the get go. That's the whole reason of letting him get in and start making those mistakes so he can learn from them.

BTW ...  that's why many people think Flores isn't playing him. He's still in the whole "I make the choices" mode where he feels he has to keep people in check.

Here's the Tua highlights from week 4.  >:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_amADSuvOWQ&feature=youtu.be

I was wondering when a Topic with this was going to post.  I thought about it myself and then got onto other things.

My thought on Sunday after the game is that he needs to be in the lineup.  I said at the beginning of the season, I would like him to sit, get fully healed, learn from Fitzy and then maybe bring him the 2nd half of the season or if Fitzy got hurt (don't want to see that)

It's so tough to call. The Herd asked Trent Dilfer and he said there's no right answer. you should sit him if you want him to learn OR you should throw him in there and see what you have

Especially, the way that the 2021 Draft is looking for the Dolphins and HOU is now 0-4 and looking bleak.  We could have (4) picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

Throw him in there and see what you got with him. What if he gets in there, games 12-16, and you still don't know what you have especially playing 4 of those games against top NFL playoff teams and he looks like absolute shit.  Was it fair to throw him in there during this stretch?  

Right now, Fitzy is limited throwing the ball downfield, we can all agree on that, right???  I mean, how many 15-20 yard crossing-route OR in-routes can you throw before your WRs are getting their heads taken off?

If the running game was more effective, this would open it up a little for these WRs but right now, they're not good run-blockers.  Pass blocking looks to be above average.

You guys have seen those Tua videos of practice making throws?  I'm so torn. Part of me wants him to learns and grow, but part of me sees what Burrow and Herbert are doing and it's like we want to open our Dolphins' Christmas package that's been sitting under the tree for the last 4 weeks and we're into the New Year!!!!!

Let's Go Phins!!!!!!!

We have a bye week on 11/22, after that we play the Jets and Bengals then 4 much harder games. If you start him, either start in 2 weeks against the Broncos or wait until after the bye week so he is extra prepared. Unless we run the table, there should be no scenario where Tua doesn't start multiple games.

Channing Crowder was just killing Flores. Flores was saying Tua wasn't ready to start yet the guy who was drafted after him just went toe to toe with Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady with no more time to get ready than Tua. He said if that is really true then we are not in good shape.

I wouldn't give too much thought to what Flores tells the media.  Sports coaches and athletes generally look at the media as the enemy and they are about as honest with the media as politicians are. 

I don't think anyone does and Crowder didn't think he was being honest either. He was just pointing out he thought his comments weren't too smart. The best thing for him to say is Tua is ready and we will play him whenever we think it is time. Along those lines Flores seems to be the kind of guy who would play Tua if we started a keep Fitzpatrick in the game movement. hahaha

OK ... I change my story. Crowder and Hochman had John Clayton on their show and he said according to his sources Tua hasn't wowed anyone and that's why he isn't playing. You can make your own opinion on that.

Then it makes sense to wait a few more weeks. You can't pull a Rosen and take Tua out after 2 games no matter how bad he does, so the team isn't ready to do that just yet.

I don't know why you have to hear this from Crowder to believe it. All you have to do is listen to the head coach. If Tua were outplaying Fitz you seriously think he's not starting? Give me a break!

I agree with this.

I can't see any coach doing that with a high first round QB draft pick, maybe a 3rd or 4th rounder.  Just imagine what would happen if he went in during garbage time and was injured for the rest of the season?  That coach would forever be saddled with that bad decision.

Armando and Joe Rose were discussing Justin Herbert compared to the Tua situation. They said Herbert, like Tua, wasn't "ready" to start before Tyrod Taylor got hurt and now he's proven to be better than Tyrod and getting better. Likewise ... Robert Hunt wasn't ready to start but they had to play him anyway and he did really well.

Armando criticized Flores for not having vision and waiting until the wheels fall off so he is forced to play Tua. He also said it ridiculous to think Fitz is any different now than he has been for the last 15 years. A few good games ... a few bad games.

My thoughts are the Dolphins are continually screwed for the near future by not playing him now. Fitz will be fighting for a useless playoff spot until the end of the season and while everyone else is developing Tua will still be a redshirt rookie QB next year. As well ... according to the way Flores thinks Fitz may still be the QB next year.

Some valid points but the situation is very fluid. If Fitz starts to suck, then it is Tua time. However, if Fitz keeps rattling off good games, we will be winning games and in the playoff hunt. You can't take a good QB out during a playoff hunt, you will lose the team. We care about the future, not the guy in his 30s who gets his ass kicked every Sunday and doesn't know when the next snap could be his last.

All that being said, it would be surprising if Tua doesn't get at least 6 games in. If he doesn't, then he failed a physical or we're going to the playoffs.

The difference is that both players HAD to start. Don't know what you don't get about this. Just because those players stepped up to the challenge doesn't mean that Tua will. There's plenty of examples of players being forced into playing and not playing well. When Tua NEEDS to start, he will. Before then you're forcing the issue when it doesn't need to be forced.

Like when Tua as a Freshman was thrown into the National Championship game and won?

So you're saying that the fact that Alabama got to the National Championship game without Tua is meaningless, but the fact they won with him has some meaning?

Unless Fitz takes MIA to the conference championship game, Tua needs to be the starter of 2021 Opening Day.  Beyond that, I don't care if he takes a single snap this year.  

Herbert wasn't coming off of a major injury.  Let Tua continue to get healthy and bulk up.

I am directly addressing your quote, he was forced into playing and played well.

Even if Fitz wins us the Superbowl I would have Tua start Week 1 in 2021.

Agreed. But he was forced into playing which is not the situation he's in now which was my original point when you brought up Alabama. I have no problem with Tua playing once he NEEDS to play. That day will come and I think he's getting valueable experience watching Fitz work and he'll be ready when it happens.

LOL ... "Don't know what you don't get about this" but Burrow didn't have to start. They chose too start him because they saw a plan in developing him. They could have kept Dalton or played someone else. As it is Flores isn't making a decision. He is letting the decision get made for him. No risk for him that way and it kind of rubs some people wrong. Kind of like a run, run, pass offense. It's very safe and bland.

Just a word of advice but you may not want to be so finger pointing with your opinion. It isn't the be-all and end-all. It's just an opinion.

Theoretically yes, but let's say Miami's offense gells and Miami goes 9-2 the rest of the way. I could see Fitzy come back for two more years to finish his career, while Tua continues to learn on the bench. It's rare when this happens with a rookie quarterback, especially one drafted this high but I recall this taking place with Philip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers. Both of them sat on the bench for three years before finally getting the starting role.

Flores HAS made a decision. It's just not the one you agree with.

Agreeing to let circumstances decide for you is akin to flipping a coin. While it technically is a decision it is only you choosing not to make one.

He's not doing that. He's stated on multiple occasions that he believes that Fitzpatrick gives his team the best chance to win right now. Based on what Fitzpatrick is doing on the field I don't know how ANYONE can argue with that. When that changes, then it will be time to start Tua. You want Tua to start so he can get experience regardless of whether it means a loss or not. Lots of fans want that. The vast majority of NFL coaches would do what Flores is doing and start the player that gives them the best chance to win.

I'm not saying to start him now. I think that ship has sailed. I just think we should have been playing for next season when in fact we are playing for two seasons away. Tua won't play until he gives us the best chance to win or Fitz gets hurt. Either way most likely he and Trevor will be playing about the same time.

Pappy, here's what I take issue with that.

Tua may literally never give us the best chance to win RIGHT NOW.  Sometimes a QB has to come in and take their lumps to get acquainted.  There's always some journeyman who can come in and outplay the guy who's never taken a snap before.  So, why not this season?

If that's the case then we absolutely positively chose the wrong QB in the draft. That's not even a question. He absolutely better be the best QB on the team by next year and they better not have to get rid of Fitz for that to happen. If he's not that would be a HUGE disappointment. If Herbert were on the Dolphins, there's a good chance he might be starting now.

Dan Marino didn't even win the position in practice. He won it by coming in to games and playing well. His first start was at 6 weeks after .

 In his previous action, Marino combined for 240 yards, 3 touchdowns and 1 interception. Shula saw enough to name him the starter in Week 6 of the 1983 season, and wouldn’t look back from there.

Or... If Fitz was the starter in LA to start the season, maybe Herbert isn't starting yet.

If the Chargers' team doctor doesn't puncture Tyrod Taylor's lung, Herbert isn't even starting for LAC.  Herbert didn't earn a start with his play; he got the nod because of Taylor's injury.

Herbert is only starting because the medical trainer is a moron who stabbed Tyrod Tyalor in the lung with a syringe. If Tyrod were playing well, Herbert probably isn't starting until say Week 10 if the Chargers were 3-7 at the time.

BS. His play in practice is what convinced Shula that Marino needed to play. He was wowing everyone in practice. He clearly was the better QB in practice, but it took a while to convince Shula that his play in practice would translate to the games. I believe it was John Clayton that even compared Tua to Marino and said that Tua hasn't been wowing anyone in practice the way that Marino did. And it took 6 weeks plus preseason for Shula to pull the trigger. Most of you are just over eager for it to happen, that is all. Even Tua's trainer Trent Dilfer said giving him more time to prepare could be good for Tua.

Well he definitely wouldn't have started as soon as he did but we don't know for sure that he wouldn't be playing by now. He's clearly outplaying what Tyrod Taylor has done his entire career.

I get it.  The Dolphins have been bad for a long time.  Tua represents hope.  So as fans, we are like little kids at Christmas who can't wait to open up the big present under the tree.   None of us and nobody in the media where we get our information from are privy to the coach's discussions with the other coach's or the coach's private thoughts.  What he or anyone else says to the media is meaningless.  Typically (not always) what happens is that as long as a team is playing well enough to still be in contention for a playoff spot, the coach won't throw the rookie QB in as the new starter.  Maybe a little mop up duty in a game, maybe not.  But typically, a coach won't make a rookie the starter until they are clearly not going to be in playoff contention.  The Bengals started Burrow immediately because the Bengals are terrible and Andy Dalton was gone.  The Chargers started Herbert because the team doctor accidentally deflated Tyrod's lung.  Herbert has played well enough to justify keeping him as the starter.  With the Patriots having a down year, the Dolphins aren't going to be out of playoff contention as early as they usually are this year.  Fitz is hot and cold just like he has been his entire career.  If he puts together 2 or 3 crappy games in a row that the Dolphins lose, they will probably make the switch to Tua.  Or when it becomes obvious that they aren't making the playoffs they will make the switch to Tua.  Tua will be the starter before the year is over.  But sometimes our parents make us wait to open our Christmas presents until after breakfast on Christmas morning.  So just be patient, kids, that present will still be under the tree after we finish breakfast. 

Because you are not playing meaningless games.  In most years Tau would have 4 games to take his lumps, but this year those 4 games were canceled.  You only play a guy for experience in the pre-season or garbage time.  And as the Dolphins are not eliminated from either winning the division nor a wild card, you must play to win.

We actually agree on something!   ;)

Herbert is 0-4 and you're acting like he's the next Patrick Mahomes; meanwhile, Taylor took the Bills to their first playoff appearance in 20 years and has appeared in a Pro Bowl.  You might want to pump the brakes a bit.

LOL. You're better then this Spider. Your Tua infatuation is showing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8nJXGso8No

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-bXejuvL2g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd2fKnqo_7Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8NXbnFJ0A

Herbert is, indeed, playing well.  Not taking anything away there.

But after four losses, you have already declared that Herbert - who could not beat out a healthy Tyrod Taylor for the starting job - has surpassed Taylor's entire career.  Is Herbert well on his way to the Hall of Fame now?

You may want to calm down slightly.

It's time for Tua right now with 2:14 left in the 4th quarter of a shutout

Just to clarify I said that Herbert is playing better now then Taylor has at anytime in his career. I stand by that statement. I believe that Taylor is healthy now, we'll see who starts the next time they play.