The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

The boy texts me yesterday and lets me know about the Watson chatter.....AGAIN

I didn't or won't believe it, but I went out to the interwebs again and sure enough, there is it is.

How OR why would the Dolphins take him via a trade?  Why give up on Tua NOW and trade for a possibility that a guy could miss some or al of this season?  Why throw the season away on a player like Watson?

Dave Hyde speaks on this

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave-hyde/fl-sp-hyde-watson-dolphins-20210828-l7tdsqrdmnbjvfrnmguthzwdmy-story.html (https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/dave-hyde/fl-sp-hyde-watson-dolphins-20210828-l7tdsqrdmnbjvfrnmguthzwdmy-story.html)

I just don't see a positive outcome for this if they pull the trigger.  I will be sorely disappointed, especially being a Bama fan and in turn happy to see Tau draft by my Fins. I've been a lifelong fan (40+ years) and for them to make this happen and actually bring hm here would surely test my allegiance to this club.

So disappointing to still hear this chatter 2 weeks prior to the start of the season

It's insane and makes no sense why they are revisiting this. Watson is in legal trouble and has a no trade. Tua is playing well and Week 1 is right around the corner. Why would Miami trade AT LEAST 3 First Rounders and 2 2nd Rounders for Watson now? Why would anyone?

After the draft, a trade was almost at 0%, now it is at 0%.

Actual old school sports reporters (am I the only one who remembers Edwin Pope) must spin in their graves as their contemporaries spin tales and float ideas that have about a 0.0001% chance of ever happening just to get people to read their columns.  Sportwriters today are like teenagers doing the latest "challenge" on Instagram for attention.  Watson isn't coming to Miami.  No way, no how, not going to happen. 

I would just like to say that none of this would be necessary if they drafted Herbert like I said they should have.

Stinnett actually looked pretty good against Cincy.   We've got our project third string QB.  Hopefully he will develop into a capable backup/spot starter.

It's not like it's early July either and news is slow, the season is about to start and preseaosn games are being played. No reason to post nonsense like this for clicks.

I think this is getting pushed by the Watson's agent. The texans probably called the dolphins said, hey .. take this guy off our hands .. 3 firsts .. 2 seconds and we'll take tua back. Greer said fuck no. And that agent leaked to the press trying to drive the trade cost down to get his client out of that dumpster fire houston team.

How would the agent know unless the Texans called him? I don't think they have to let Watson's agent know they have talked to someone about a possible trade but maybe they do. Don't think the Dolphins could talk directly to the agent since Watson is under contract with Houston.

I think the most likely scenario is that everyone but the Dolphins have officially dropped out of the race making the Dolphins the front runner, but as another article stated no one is running very fast. LOL

With his legal troubles and the season starting next week, would you even do Tua for Watson straight up? Forget about the draft picks or fair market value, no team serious with contending can trade for a new QB right before Week 1 without a rocky start.

No, but who's to say they aren't thinking about giving up lets say a 1 and a 2 and maybe even a player not Tua (Brisset?) or something for Watson and keeping Tua? Would I do that? I might. Watson is going to play again at some point, I think you can count on that. Maybe not this year and maybe not next year, but if you have a chance to put him on your roster and keep Tua? I'm interested anyway. And maybe the Dolphins are a LOT higher on Brisset then we realize? He didn't play at all on Sunday. Maybe just maybe they think that if Brisset had to start the season but they had some assurance that Watson could play at least part of 2021 you can part with Tua? I don't know, I think the Dolphins are just testing the water and seeing what's there. I don't think they like the idea of losing Tua but I think they really like the idea of getting Watson on the roster and then seeing what they can do with him. There's a lot of possibilities to consider and I think the Dolphins are considering all of them. They won't do something stupid like put all their eggs in one basket with Watson, but it's foolish not to consider possibilities.

Is there any credible reporting that this Watson thing is real?

The most I've seen is that it's rumored and Flores won't shut down the rumor...he just won't answer to rumors.

The question is why not? What's the harm in saying "We are not trying to trade for Watson"? I'll tell you the harm, the harm is that they may actually want Watson on their team at some point and they don't want him to invoke his no trade clause, so they aren't saying anything. So that doesn't mean they are actively seeking a trade, but it also may mean that they aren't ruling it out either. I'm pretty sure they haven't ruled it out, it just comes down to when is the price right?

Houston has a problem that Miami doesn't have. Watson wants to play for Miami, he doesn't want to play for Houston. That's Miami's edge right now and they don't want to give that up. The legal issues will work themselves out eventually and then Watson is going to be playing football again. The question is for whom?

Watson isn't coming to Miami...and Tua isn't going anywhere except to the playoffs with Miami.

Reporter from NFL Insider says that the Texans are preparing to make Watson inactive every week. He has shown up to team meetings and isn't refusing to play but he doesn't want to be there and apparently the Texans don't want him either. This isn't the first report that Houston would make him a healthy scratch during the season.

I still say we try to trade for more of their 1st rounders somehow, they will be Top 3 again.

he's a very very .. VERY expensive healthy scratch .. good luck to them

Never underestimate the stupidity of the Houston Texans organization.  I thought getting rid of O'Brien would be a big step forward, but they don't seem much smarter without him. 

The people who gave him total control are still there so they will never get better until the owners leave.

Good point.

This is pretty dumb to me as no one even knows if he will ever play again so he isn't worth a whole lot right now. I don't care what Flores says to media but I really, really, hope they are keeping Tua and his agent at peace.

Good grief!!

Mike Florio reports just now that Stephen Ross "really wants" Watson.

Thank God we don't have the cap space or draft picks to meet Houston's ridiculous demands.

When I remove emotion from the equation and look at the Watson thing from a purely business perspective, I don't know why any team would give a LOT for Watson considering there is a good chance that he goes to prison and a decent chance that if he goes to prison, he never takes another NFL snap.  I sure wouldn't want to be the GM that pulls the trigger on something like multiple 1st round picks for a guy who never takes the field.  That would probably be career suicide for a GM and I just don't know that very many would risk that much. 

I think prison is unlikely as the burden of proof is high and would have to be met, but the legal issues will linger for a long time. He might serve a suspension or just be distracted by it for quite awhile. Until this is behind him, not worth it. Maybe a team like the Broncos would trade a 2nd rounder for him but no one is giving up market value for Watson right now. That's just insanity.

There's no way he ends up in prison unless something comes out a whole lot worse than what he's been charged with up to this point. He'd settle out of court before it came to that I have no doubt about it. Now is he a scumbag of the 1st order? Yes. Does he deserve to be in prison? No and he's got the money and the ability to earn more to fight this. The charges will go away, the stigma will never go away but he'll be playing football again in under 2 years in my opinion, maybe even next year.

Look at it this way, the whole me too movement that just went through Hollywood, have any of those guys ended up in prison? Not to my knowledge. They are no longer working in Hollywood, but in my opinion what they did was way worse than what Watson is accused of.

Just a reminder that there was video of Robert Kraft soliciting sex for cash and he's not in prison. He didn't even lose his job, in fact I think all the charges against him have been dropped and they had it on videotape which Kraft successfully got thrown out.

The biggest target, Harvey Weinstein went to prison and so did Bill Cosby. That's just from the top of my head

Lots of proof of rape from those guys including a (now illegal) confession from Cosby, so far nothing but accusations for Watson. That could change but it's been awhile now and nothing yet so it's unlikely too. A suspension could still happen because the NFLPA is a joke that lets their players get suspended for accusations only, but jail time is quite unlikely. Any jail time for these charges is basically the end of his career, no one does only 2 years for rape unless their Father is a Judge or Senator.

Dad was on board of Governors...and she swore she was 19 anyway.

For some reason your comment made me flash to the scene in the movie Animal House where the girl passes out and Tom Hulce's character has the little angel over one shoulder and the little devil over the other one trying to convince him what he should do.   ;D

^^^ A truly excellent scene in one of the classic comedies of all time.

"F*** her, F*** her brains out!"


To bring it back to topic...the girl from Animal House is not one of the women alleging sexual harassment against Watson.

Nice save to keep us on point. 

Soliciting sex for money and rape aren't in the same ballpark.

I don't even have a moral issue with what Kraft did, and in fact, I felt kinda sorry for him for being embarrassed.   Leave the poor dude alone.

I didn't realize that Weinstein had actually gone to prison for rape. Cosby was a little before the whole Me too movement so I don't include him in that. Both of them were accused of multiple rapes, I don't believe that Watson has been accused of rape unless I'm wrong. Still point taken. It is a different world from before the Weinstein's and Cosby's of the world made their mark. I still don't think Watson will be going to jail though, I don't think any of the lawsuits against him are even criminal, just civil.

I don't believe that Watson has been accused of rape either. My only reason for bringing up Kraft was the fact that police had video evidence on him, I don't believe there's anything close to that for Watson.

No one goes to jail for being with a massage parlor prostitute. They wanted a big fish to boost their own profiles so they made up some nonsense about it being sex trafficking in order to get Kraft to plea but he told them to kiss his ass.

A person without his wealth would've taken the plea but what's the point of being a billionaire if you can't tell the DOJ to suck it?

Tyrod Taylor was officially named the Texans starter for Week 1. We all knew this was coming but Watson will be a healthy inactive and that probably won't change as the season progresses.

The Texans might be the worst run franchise in all of American sports.

.  Four playoff berths and two wins in six years.  Miami has one playoff berth in that span. 

You really suck at this football stuff. What is the record of the Dolphins and the Texans over their first 21 years in the league. Pretty sure the Dolphins did a couple things...five SB appearances, yep, and two SB victories.
I think it is time for you to pick a new team and end this self-loathing you have for being a fan. Listen to Morrissey instead

For the life of me, I don't understand why (or if) you are a Dolphins fan.  All you do is complain about them.  Yes, there are plenty of things about the Dolphins that can be criticized.  But when that is ALL you do, I have to question your fandom. 

If D4L changes his avatar to a Carolina Panthers logo, be very worried...  :D

Watson is not MIA's problem in 2021.  Tua's play this season will determine whether the Dolphins chase Watson in 2022.

Based on the first 2 games of the season, I'd give up Tua and whatever draft picks Houston wants for Watson right now. It's not like we are drafting a bunch of studs with all those picks anyway. I'm prepared to play with Brissett as the QB this year if need be. Yes, I know that QB is not the only problem with this team, but I think Watson would solve the QB problem at least and yes I believe Miami does have a QB problem that goes way beyond offensive line in fact I would go so far as to say that Tua is making the offensive line look even worse then it is.

I want to but I can't argue with your logic of "we would waste then draft picks anyway". Of course, please understand that even Watson would be shitty under this O-Line right now.

Realizing that you are anti-Tua because you favored picking Herbert (which I did also), even if Tua is a bust Watson is not the answer.  Too many off field issues that would be a major distraction for him, and ultimately the team.  Players just don't recover and go on to success; you can mention Roethlisberger or Vick, but that was a different time.

Just for the record, I'm anti-Tua because I don't like him as a QB. Has nothing to do with the fact that I wanted Miami to take Herbert instead of him, has everything to do with the fact that I think Tua is a smallish, not very gifted athlete that throws with his left hand that was fortunate enough to be on an extremely talented Alabama team. No one would have known who Tua was if he played for University of Illinois I can guarantee you that. Herbert was the opposite. Completely under rated QB because he was on a very average offensive team. Extremely gifted athlete, doing things you cannot teach a QB to do with arm talent and ability. Tua and Herbert are on opposite ends of the spectrum and I thought Miami was making a big mistake taking Tua instead of Herbert when he was drafted and that opinion has only gotten stronger over time. I'm now convinced that Tua's an average QB at best and I don't think he ever will be anything more than that in the NFL. He was a college wonder that will go no where in the pro's. As more time goes by, I'm only becoming more and more convinced of that. He almost changed my mind the first couple of games in Miami where he showed some promise, but he's going in the wrong direction now getting worse each week rather than better. I thought Fitzpatrick outplayed Tua most of last year including late in the year and I think Brissett might just outplay him this year and frankly I'd rather see Brissett under center right now.

Watson may not be the answer, but he's got a heck of a lot better chance than Tua does.

Pappy, did you think CIN should have taken Herbert over Burrow?  I mean, Herbert has been better so far.

Taking Herbert over Tua would have been suicidal.  Even with Tua's play so far (which, let's keep in mind, has not been bad; he has an 85.4 passer rating and the best record BY FAR of the QBs in his class), Flores/Grier have not been anywhere near the hot seat.  If they take Herbert instead of Tua and the numbers in LA and Miami stay the same, the front office is potentially getting fired this offseason.  Herbert would be considered one of the biggest busts in draft history and the Dolphins would be talked about in the same breath as the Blazers passing on Jordan.

Consider that it doesn't matter if Zach Wilson or Trey Lance actually end up being better than Trevor Lawrence, or whether Urban Meyer thought they might be; picking either of those two over Lawrence sets your expectations sky high before you've taken the field.  The only reason to take Herbert over Tua is if you think Tua won't overcome his injury problems, and that conclusion has yet to be justified.  Herbert's Marino-like outperformance of expectations does not change the fact that it would have been insane to take him over Burrow or Tua based on perceived talent.  There's being smart, and then there's being cute.

I don't disagree with much of what you have said, I'm just of the opinion that we have Tua so we need to support him and give him two years to really see what we have.  Some QB's are hot immediately, then go on to suck.  Other QB's take a couple years to develop and grow into the NFL position.  I didn't want Tua, but I think he's shown enough good things last year to give him the opportunity he deserves.

Not particularly, I had Burrow and Herbert ranked even but CIN had already seemed to have made up their mind they were taking Burrow so that only left Herbert as the choice for Miami for me. Not really sure what you are getting at here as this discussion is not whether or not Burrow or Herbert would have better for Miami as that was not the choice Miami had the choice they had was between Herbert and Tua and the other QB's and I liked Herbert much better than any of the other QB's available to Miami to draft.

Record has nothing to do with it and never has for me. I don't believe that QB's should get credit for wins/losses for games they play because it's not an individual stat, it's a team stat and therefore you can't assign a W or an L to any 1 player. Heck you can't even look at records when you are comparing entire offenses as defense and special teams also play into wins and losses as well. Beyond that you'd have to consider strength of schedule as well. Then take for example that Tua wasn't even on the field when Miami took the lead for good against the Raiders and clearly played poorly enough to lose the game for them. Comparing records for QB's is a completely arbitrary way of comparing QB play and meaningless to me.

Passer ratings can be pretty arbitrary as well because certainly the other players on your team as well as the other team play into that as well but at least it's a bit more of an apples to apples comparison than record is.

If you feel that Tua has outplayed Herbert in their NFL careers, I'll just say that I don't agree with you and I'll leave it at that, not going to get into an argument with you on that subject.

If he feels that Tua has outplayed Herbert in the NFL, I've got some mountainside property here in Florida to sell him.

If you had Herbert and Burrow "ranked even" then your perception of Herbert was so far out-of-step with the rest of the football world that it's not actionable.

Now, do you get credit for Herbert living up to your belief in him?  Of course!  But almost literally no one else thought Herbert was a valid option for the #1 overall pick.  It's basically a "I told everyone Mahomes should have been drafted #1 overall"-level take.  I mean, I thought that Lamar Jackson was being undervalued in the 2018 draft, and he's the only QB from that draft with an MVP award... but if I had insisted that he should be drafted ahead of Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold, you guys would have said I'm psycho.

If this is the case, how can you say Herbert is any better than Tua?  Or any QB is better than any other QB, for that matter?  I mean, the one game where Herbert and Tua were playing the same day on the same field under the same conditions, Tua directly outplayed Herbert.

If you're going to discount stats because teammates and opponents aren't the same, you're basically eliminating the ability to compare players.


Direct quote: "Herbert's Marino-like outperformance of expectations does not change the fact that it would have been insane to take him over Burrow or Tua based on perceived talent."

That's not true at all. Chris Simms had Herbert ranked as the #2 ranked QB pre draft and had Tua #4.  I even linked this exact link to this forum back when it came out. The fact that you don't know this is very telling. You and a lot of others simply had a very highly inflated opinion of Tua and a much lower opinion of Herbert, but not everyone thought that and some very smart people that do analysis for a living thought otherwise.

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/nfl-draft-2020-chris-simms-explains-ranking-tua-tagovailoa-no-4-qb

The statement you quoted has nothing to do with your response.  I'll reiterate:


If YOU thought Burrow vs. Herbert was a toss-up, of course you were going to think MIA should have taken Herbert over Tua!  But no one else had that high of an opinion of Herbert.  Even in the video you linked, Chris Simms repeatedly referred to Tua's injury history as a reason for his concern.

ESPN's QBR, not QB rating does a more objective look at how the QB impacted the plays that he was a part of rather than just looking at stats. I still consider it flawed because I think they tend to rate "stars" higher than other players on individual plays but it's probably the best indicator that we have for rating QB play. I mean how you get to be a "star" is by playing well so I guess being a "star" does give you a bit of a built in advantage, not unlike giving "star" NBA players the benefit of the doubt on foul calls, etc.

If we compare QBR's for Justin Herbert and Tua last year, Justin had a QBR of 62.6 and Tua had a QBR of 44.8. The top player, Aaron Rodgers had a 79.8 QBR rating just to give a sort of measuring stick. Justin's QBR rating put him 13th highest rated QB in the league last year and Tua's rating made him the 26th highest rated QB. What might come as a huge shock to you is that Ryan Fitzpatrick had a QBR of 72.6 last year making him the 5th highest rated QB in the league last year and to some that might invalidate this rating a bit, but just the opposite for me. I thought Fitz had a very good year last year (perhaps his best as an NFL QB) and was severely underrated by most Dolphins fans as to how well he played given the circumstances. He vastly outplayed Tua in my opinion and I debated whether Fitz should have been removed to put Tua in. In my opinion that decision may have cost Miami a chance at a playoff game as I think Fitz may have won a game here or there that Tua didn't manage to win. Maybe not, Fitz is a bit streaky and maybe we just got a bit lucky and only really saw the good Fitz and not the bad Fitz, we'll never know.

His injury history was only ONE of the MANY reasons that he had Herbert ranked higher than Tua. He also mentioned arm strength and size. He also mentions that Tua played for Alabama and that if you were to put Herbert on Alabama he would have put up monster numbers as well, all of the things that I have mentioned. I agreed with him on ALL of the things he mentions at that time and I still think it's true. Tua is small and prone to injury in the NFL. He played for a very good team with a very good offensive line and very good receivers, perhaps better than some NFL caliber players, probably better than Miami's line and WR's and that was in college where the talent disparity between teams is even larger which inflated his numbers. Herbert played on a very average offensive team which made his numbers look less spectacular by comparison. Nothing has changed my mind about any of that.

Simms had Herbert ranked second to Burrow and in that video he claims that Herbert had the biggest upside, even higher than Burrow, so no it's NOT true that EVERYONE thought that Burrow was OBVIOUSLY the best QB in the draft. You thought that. Not EVERYONE thought that in fact a guy that does QB analysis for a living thought Burrow and Herbert were very close, he did have Burrow ranked higher, but not by much. That's pretty much exactly in line with what I thought. I said last year that given the choice between Burrow and Herbert I would take Burrow but that doesn't mean I thought he was the clear choice, he was a more accomplished QB, so yeah take the one that seems like a better bet. I would not have had an issue with either player though even if Miami was picking 1st and I would stick by that opinion today.

I'll just leave this here. Go read this thread.

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=26090.0

I start off the thread saying that I preferred Herbert to Tua.

Stinkfish sort of agrees with me.

Hoodie says he's starting to agree with me.

Sunstroke says he would be good with either Tua or Herbert.

Spider then says that he doesn't like one year wonders (I'm paraphrasing) which is why he likes Tua.

I then point out to him that it was projected that Herbert would be a first round pick if he came out the year before which he obviously didn't know because he didn't mention Herbert in with the other QB's as having "buzz a full year before they're draft eligible" which Herbert clearly did.

Edge mentions that Herbert will go no further than #6 to the Chargers.

I mean it's pretty obvious that even within the Dolphins forums that it was not clear who the pick should be Herbert or Tua. I realize that's different from the question Burrow or Herbert, but, I don't think my thoughts on the subject at that time were that much different than most here. Burrow was considered the top pick and then who the next best was up for debate a bit. I thought Herbert was clearly the next best pick and pretty much equal to Burrow while most had Tua and Herbert as equals as the next best QB.

Name one single professional analyst that advocated for drafting Herbert #1 over Burrow.
You can't.

Literally every analyst said Burrow was better.  You thought they were "even."
Your opinion of Herbert was higher than everyone else.

So Simms had Burrow rated BETTER than Herbert, whereas you had them EVEN.

That's not what you said earlier today, when you claimed you had them "ranked even."  So which was it?  Did you have them ranked even, or did you have Burrow ranked over Herbert?

Let me just point out something else, here:

It is a completely reasonable take to say that Herbert should have been drafted #5 over Tua.  I have no qualms with that statement; there were significant questions as to whether Tua could fully recover from his hip injury, to say nothing of whether he would face other injuries in the future.  But if you don't believe Tua can stay healthy, you shouldn't take him at #5.... or #6, or #18, or #30, or #39, or #56.  You shouldn't take ANY player that you do not believe can stay on the field.

However, if your opinion was that Tua was not talented enough to be worth taking over Herbert...?  Well, that opinion was not shared by most experts.  The reason why that Chris Simms video was notable is precisely because it was a contrarian take; the vast majority of experts had Tua has the more talented prospect.  ESPN (http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/rankings/_/year/2020) had Burrow rated as a 94 (#2 overall), Tua rated as a 93 (#7 overall), and Herbert rated as an 89... the 24th-best prospect in the draft.

Now, you can make the point that ESPN didn't even have Patrick Mahomes rated in the top 32 of the 2017 NFL Draft.  And if you were a person standing around in spring of 2017 screaming that Patrick Mahomes was the best player in the draft, then you should feel some level of validation right now.  But at the time of the 2020 draft, Herbert over Tua on talent was an extreme outlier among expert opinion, and Herbert even with Burrow on talent was total insanity.

And you said "then your perception of Herbert was so far out-of-step with the rest of the football world that it's not actionable" which I don't agree with. That's my point. My perception was not that much different from all those that had them very close. Even I didn't advocate taking Herbert over Burrow, only taking Herbert over Tua.

Yet you already said that me saying that I would take Herbert over Tua was not that hard to imagine but Tua being rated 1 point below Burrow then puts the opinion that Herbert is on par with Burrow unactionable. Huh? What number they are overall really doesn't play into the discussion because I was not comparing Herbert to the rest of the draft, I was comparing him to the other QB's in the draft.

"All those" is apparently Chris Simms, which he lays out in a video that his employer chose to title "Simms defends Tua, Herbert QB draft rankings."
I think this take speaks for itself.

Note that even your handpicked example did not have Burrow and Herbert "ranked even" as you did.  I repeat: your perception of Herbert was so far out-of-step with the rest of the football world that it was not actionable.

I'm shocked that I have to explain this to you, but here we go:

If Tua did not get injured, there would have been a significant debate over whether Tua or Burrow should go #1.

It seems like you have completely memory-holed the entire "Tank for Tua" period of history.  Prior to his injury, Tua was getting the same kind of hype as Andrew Luck and Trevor Lawrence.  How can you have missed this?

Jordan Love was rated a 90.
I guess it's a good thing we don't have a Jordan Love fan on the board insisting that we should have taken him at #5!

And I think the play of Herbert speaks for itself. Simms called it, I agreed with it and you can't deal with it.
 

Herbert has been pretty bad this year.  2 TDs and 3 INTs over two games.  Tua has 2TDs and 1INT over one game.  Yikes, Herbert might be a one year wonder.

He has made some pretty bone headed plays this year. Maybe gotten a little over confident although 1 of those INT's that was not the case, his receiver just fell down. The one play that I thought was really bad for him was where he lost 20 yards and was called in the grasp on a 2nd and goal line play. He had plenty of time to throw it away and just held onto it way too long. Really bad play and may have cost them the game because if they score a TD there they take the lead rather than tie the game. Cowboys drove on the next series for the game winning FG as time expired. That was one of those plays if it's not there you just throw it away and live to fight another down.

That's one way to look at it.

Another way to look at it is that you are rewriting history to act like you knew Herbert was going to be great all along.  Which would make this a pretty weird post:

So if I understand correctly:

- you did not expect Herbert to "be the one to surprise"
- you would have picked Burrow if MIA had the #1 pick
- you thought #18 would be "a good spot" to take Herbert
- you felt picking Herbert at #5 would have been "a bit of a reach"
- you would have been happy passing on QB altogether at #5

But now, 20 months later, you claim you had Herbert and Burrow "ranked even" all along?
Interesting draft strategy for a player you say you had ranked even with the player you would draft at #1.  You didn't think MIA should take Herbert or Tua!

Not really sure what I meant by this statement now but don't see how it's really all that relevant. I guess I meant that I didn't think Herbert would come in and shock the NFL, no I did not expect that, but neither did I expect that from Burrow.

Yes I would have, he was the "safer" pick of the 2 in my opinion, not necessarily because I thought he was a much better QB.

Originally yes months before the draft. The post you are quoting was from January and I was referring to a time even before that. In January, no I was not convinced that Herbert was a great selection at #5 but nor was I convinced that Burrow was a great selection at #1, but Miami was going to take a QB and Cincy was going to take Burrow that much seemed obvious so if QB it is then the only choice for QB was Herbert, Tua I had ranked lower. By the time of the draft I was of the opinion that there was little difference between Burrow and Herbert and I was fine with taking him, I still did not want to take Tua at #5.

Absolutely. Especially if we weren't going to take Herbert. I did not want to take Tua at #5.

Statements taken out of context. That's how I felt about Herbert originally, but it's not how I felt by the time of the draft, by that time I was fine taking Burrow or Herbert at #5 whichever one was available (assumed it would be Herbert), but did not want to draft Tua at #5, would have rather taken another player.

ok, sure

Don't expect any further credit for predicting Herbert's success when you're on record saying you didn't think he was worth taking at #5.

You're absolutely right that I did not think Herbert would come in and have the year he had last year in the NFL. That much you are absolutely right about however I have never said that, only that I wanted Miami to take Herbert at #5, not Tua. I also did not make any mention of how I felt he compared to Burrow because almost everyone was assuming Burrow would be taken by Cincy. I did want to take Herbert at #5 at the time of the draft and I would have been fine taking Burrow as well if he was available but I assumed that he would be the #1 pick like everyone else. I did NOT want them to take Tua or any other QB at #5 and was disappointed when they took him over Herbert. You don't have to believe me and I don't really care whether you do or don't.

No, I get that you didn't like Tua.  That's perfectly clear, and I have no problem with that.

What I have a problem with are your attempts to jump on Herbert's unexpected success as some sort of I told you so.  You didn't like either one of them at #5, but you were more opposed to taking Tua.  And now, in pure hindsight, you're trying to act like you had Herbert and Burrow ranked the same all along!  Give me a break, dude.

Herbert's success has no reflection on your opposition to taking Tua.  Stop trying to claim credit for predicting Herbert's performance.
YOU didn't want to take either one of them.

In fact, your "I'd rather pass on both of them at #5" take means that even if Tua winds up a complete bust, if Herbert becomes an All-Pro then you were still dead wrong anyway.

I never have, I merely said that I wanted Miami to take Herbert and not Tua at #5, you have morphed that into me trying to take credit for his performance so that you can argue about it. I've played along now as far as I will play. I'll let my words up to this point speak for themselves.

It's been NON STOP since Herbert took the field.

 :D :D :D

Fair enough. I'll stop reminding everyone here that Miami should have taken Herbert. I hadn't considered that it's as painful for you as it is for me.

Sir, you have officially been caught in the Spider web of circles.

No to the sex pest

Watson killed it last year and the Texans won 4 games, so he would not turn this team around. Furthermore, Tua played much better in his 2 games this season than he did last year so he s trending in the right direction. He is not the problem.

I completely agree.  Tua played a very good game today and the Dolphins still lost to a previously winless team.  I think that makes it pretty clear that the problems on this team run way beyond the QB position.  This team is obviously not just a QB away from being a contender to go deep into the playoffs. 

Agreed

I'm not ready to throw Tua under the bus yet. And yes he had a good game. But remember what defense he was going up against. If and when he can play like that against the better teams, until then the jury is still out on Tua.

A lot of a QB's development is about a coach's trust in him. Until 2021, the team didn't let him do anything and even now they didn't even trust him to convert on 4th and 1. Compare that to the Chargers and Herbert where they gave him free reign from Day 1 last year.

He looks good when he is allowed to throw and make plays but he is still young and not everyone is an MVP right out of the gate. I still have faith in him.

I don't disagree with you.  But the Dolphins are so bad that as a fan, I grab onto any positive than I can.  You are definitely right about the jury still being out on Tua.  I was just happy that he had a good (not great) game today because it is one of the few things to be optimistic about.  Even if it was just for one game. 

He's gonna wind up like Tannehill. Tua isn't failing the Dolphins, the Dolphins are failing Tua. Just like our last QB. In fact, I root for the Titans now more often than not.

Did the Dolphins fail Marino, as well?

Cheering for Titans since Ryan went there

Yes

I know it's unlikely, but I hope they destroy Buffalo