The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

This has been over the news https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfOZE7KHdi4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfOZE7KHdi4)    Watch the play.  If anything, isn't that PI on the Cowboys because the defender tries to grab the receiver?  Am I missing something?  Or is this another form of BCS?  Why is there ANY controversy on this?

Trying something and doing something are different things. You can't penalize thought, so no penalty against the Cowboys. It also appears to me that it is only happening as he is falling so the question is was he pushed? I don't see the arm extension I need to see to call it a push off. I think it's a good no call.

Still made contact without playing the ball.  This is defensive pass interference

To answer your question as posed in the topic, "yes". You do not understand the rules.

And it's odd, but your misunderstandings of the rules always seem to be pro-Patriots and pro-Brady. Not sure why that would be...

(Contact needs to have an *effect* for it to be illegal, otherwise it's just incidental - additionally, the rules look at who *initiated* contact.)

. You may be right in this case.  However, do you remember Super Bowl 53?  I said the refs missed a pass interference on the Patriots.  The nfl agreed with me.  I analyze objectively

Right, of course you do.

  Hard to say who initiated contact on that one. 

  Any examples of me NOT being objective?

When pretty much *all* your examples *ever* feature Brady/Patriots possibly being on the wrong end of a call/no-call, then that is not "being objective" even if each case were evaluated objectively.

When your conclusion in pretty much *all* your examples *ever* is that Brady/Patriots were in fact wronged, then that is not "being objective" even if the conclusion were defensible in each case.

Taking the play you presented this time around, no, there's no way in hell there is DPI. Never. Ever.

There *might* have been OPI, but the video doesn't show it, hence the general support for the no-call. There is only circumstantial evidence of the OPI, in that the defender's body movement makes it *appear* he was pushed.

If you think that this is PI on the Cowboys, then yes, to answer your original question, you do not understand the rules.

This is arguably PI offensively because the Bucs receiver pushes off to create space, which gives him an unfair advantage to catching the ball.

But it is also arguably a no-call, because the ref's judgment could be that this was simply allowable hand-fighting that didn't create an unfair advantage for the receiver.

The bottom line is this, man.  You're going to have a long, sad life if you're arguing calls and no-calls in slow-motion for all of eternity.  Things like pass interference and holding (and many other judgment calls where contact is allowed but too much contact isn't allowed) are incredibly subjective and can really be called or not called on just about every play.  It's more about the flow of the game, calls overall, rather than one individual case, and the severity of the call.  ...was the receiver likely to catch the ball anyway...that kind of stuff.  It's a macro issue and you can't view every call in a micro lens.

That said, definitely not defensive pass interference in any universe.

 My first argument was that it MAY have been DPI.  My second argument was that there was NO WAY, it could be OPI.  You have presented a reasonable counterargument to each of them.  

   this is correct,  PI and defensive holding exist on a spectrum.  I have come to understand this as a result of watching football.  Spider pointed this out to an extent in a thread once.  This is why I did not have a problem with the officiating in the NFC title game.  Many fans had an issue with consistency.  However, king's PI at the end was FAR more egregious than either of the ones that fans were upset about Tampa Bay not being penalized for.  It was much further down the spectrum. 

I'm a bit late to the party but I have to say Godwin got away with OPI on that play.   That being said, because Tom Brady was involved, the Bucs will get some calls (or no calls) in their favor.   Kinda like Michael Jordan back in the days.

What are you basing this on?  Last year's playoffs?   Because you are deluded if you are basing it on his career with new england.

Shall I cite other examples?  In the 2019 game against the chiefs I agreed with the no call on the pass interference in the end. Even though the contact is possibly pass interference, the ball is behind the receiver and he couldn't have reached through the defender to catch it

Also, your two paragraphs are self-contradictory. If I evaluate each case objectively, then I am being objective.  If I reach a defensible conclusion in each case, then I am being objective.

Finally, whereas I cite as examples, cite understandings of how rules are interpreted, back up my claims with similar plays, point out how some penalties are called based on a spectrum, and point out how bad calls affect the game based on how they are called, most people on this board will just spout bullshit rhetoric about me being a patriots fan, say "oh it happened so and so years ago, no point in discussing it," even though it is relevant to the claim that Brady has always gotten calls throughout the years. 

www.tombradyfanboys.com (http://www.tombradyfanboys.com)


Pretty sure you missed your destination...

I think he might actually be Gisele Bundchen in disguise.  Although even she probably doesn't love Brady as much as D4L does. 

Right on cue, just useless rhetoric and garbage in response

D4L, you are arguing stuff that is inherently subjective.
Now, we all understand that this is opinion, but the weird thing is that your opinion almost always seems to fall on the side of Brady being unfairly wronged.

If this were coming from Hoodie, we would dismiss this as expected behavior and move on.  But coming from a self-proclaimed Dolphins fan, one begins to wonder why it is that your subjective analysis so frequently concludes that Actually The NFL Is Unfair To Tom Brady.

One man's useless rhetoric is another man's statement of the obvious.

Back on track...you were incorrect, that definitely should've been an offensive PI call.

I have explained why.  Perhaps you could explain why you believe he always gets the calls?

Being a fan means rooting for somebody.  I don't root for Brady.  Is that obvious enough for you?

Superstar players and the plays they are involved with tend to get the benefit of the doubt in a lot of cases.   Or sometimes even if there is no doubt.  And there was no doubt that Godwin committed OPI on that play.

Sunstroke and artichoke both say it is a flag.

Phish says no flag

Dave and fyo are undecided

I cannot decide either.

Btw I want to state my view on Brady and Marino once and for all. I think Marino had better quarterback skills than Brady.  However, Tom Brady is better at making his teammates play better (and his opponents play worse).  Therefore, I would take Brady over Marino even I believe Marino is a better quarterback

A lot of truth in your statement.  Different sport, but same principle.  Pete Rose had the smallest strike zone of any batter in the major leagues.  He was notorious for wearing down umpires complaining about their balls/strikes calling and he was also arguably the most popular player in the league during the glory years of the Big Red Machine.  So his strike zone was about from the bottom of his belt buckle to the top of his belt buckle.   So umpires were always hesitant to call strikes on him. 

So because of that we automatically assume Brady gets all the calls?  We disregard the mountain of evidence otherwise?

btw, stroke that link was nothing

I still want somebody to explain to me how analyzing calls and the results of that analysis has anything to do with who I root for.   

Not all the calls, but a lot of them.   Same deal when I watched Michael Jordan play.   A lot of times, it was clear the defender had planted his feet and Jordan was dead guilty of charging, but the foul would go on the defender for blocking.

I don't click on any of the links you post, so I would've never known.

That is not even remotely what I said.  I'm saying that superstars in all sports, including Brady, get a disproportionate amount of calls in their favor. This includes the fact that Brady gets a lot more protection from the refs when it comes to Roughing calls.  Multiple defensive players who have played against Brady have stated publicly and on the record that it is common knowledge that you have to hit Brady as delicately as possible or you are getting flagged.   That is very different from saying "Brady gets all the calls". 

I don't know what you mean by "disregard the mountain of evidence otherwise".  Typically you consider your opinion to be a "mountain of evidence" and then you share examples that don't have anything to do with supporting your opinion.  So I'm really not sure what you mean.  Feel free to not explain because I'm sure your explanation will be nonsense. 

I was talking about the link you posted

Do you want me to go over all the calls that went against Brady during his career with New England?  That is the mountain of evidence

Dear heavens...no.  What I'd like is to see if you can go an entire calendar year of not mentioning Tom Brady. Accomplish that task, and I will stop thinking of you as a Pats' fan in Phins' clothing.

For the umpteenth time, how is there any correlation between that?   

No thanks.  Wondering what kind of coital fantasies you are engaging in when you are typing about Brady creeps me out.   I will just cave instead.  You are right, that poor Brady guy gets screwed over by the refs ALL the time.  Just think of how many more records he would have if not for being hosed by the refs all these years!

I have watched the NFL's YouTube videos on penalties.  However, they are not that useful, because if you watch football, you understand that refs don't whistle things as explicitly stated in the rules. 

Michael did always get the calls in Chicago.

Because all you ever bring up is Tom Brady.  How about Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Dak Prescott, Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Tony Romo, etc. etc.

Why don't you catalogue every positive and negative penalty call/non-call for all these QB's over their careers and compare them to Tom Brady, THEN I may accept your opinion of poor Tom Brady getting screwed.

Because if they did there would be at least two flags thrown every play, and a game would take 12 hours to complete.  But you just can't accept this when it involves your Patriots and Tom Brady.

. Wrong. I can accept this. And I can evolve in my understanding of calls.

Here is an example.  In the 2015 afc title game Rob gronkowski argued that he was held in the end zone.  The rules say that any grab of the jersey is defensive holding.  I posted on here saying it was a bad call. However, I have since learned that refs will often let the defender grab and/or pull the jersey if they are attempting to make a play on the ball. Therefore, I acknowledged that this was a good no call.

Again with you defending the Patriots players, this is why you are a Patriots Homer.

 That was me defending a no-call that went AGAINST the Patriots.  Now you are simply refusing to even read my posts.  How is saying that a no-call against the Patriots was correct being a homer? 

I've been bitching about the standard of refereeing the last few years now... and in the 40 years I have been watching this game I swear I never seen it so bad, especially in regard to PI...

The first three weeks of the games shown here in Australia this year (with the other televised games I have seen - sadly no Phins games here yet) what should be the most obvious of PI calls go ignored. Players not looking for the ball and contacting receivers before the ball arrives. Clear grabs and tugs of the jerseys. No flags.

The Refs are clearly whiffing on the hard calls - it's like they they can't be assed and are expecting a red flag to be thrown by a Coach to challenge, or a video review... but it's just not happening and it's a blight on the game.

We need a Vince Lombardi in the media to highlight these obvious screw ups and yell out seriously loud - WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE? FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!

Some people were angry at the tripping penalty against Green Bay on Sunday.  However, that was completely correct.  You cannot put your leg out to trip somebody.  Should that rule be changed?