The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

With all of the talk recently about trading pothead, I wanted to bring up Sam Madison. I tread this in the Herald:
CB Sam Madison (linked to K.C., Atlanta and San Diego) reiterated to friends he won't take a pay cut from Miami.

Sam seems to be trying to talk his way out of town.  In my opinion, he knows he only shined for so many years because of Surtain.

Anyway, what do you think Saban could get in trade for him, if he opted to trade him?

1. Late first round or second round pick from a team that is "really really close"
2. 3rd or 4th round pick
3. Conditional pick for '07 draft based on his play in '06
4. A lot of laughter on the other end of the phone line, since everyone knows he will be released.

By the way, I voted for option #4.
Madison had an average year at best. He doesn't look to fit into Saban's long term plans, especially due to his cap number. I think no team would be willing to offer up any kind of pick, since they might figure they can get him for nothing if they wait.

I voted 3rd or 4th round pick....I honestly think it's wishful thinking...

I'm not really sure,He's over 30,not the cover guy he once was.

Sam was a pretty damn good player before Surtain was there, and had some bad years while he was there. That point is a bit off center..

I voted for 4 because of his contract and age aren't very tradeable..

Sam isn't going anywhere.  This team is in need of corners, cutting Sam would be retarded. 

Want to put money on that? He has said he won't take a pay cut. Saban isn't going to pay him what he is scheduled to make. Bye bye Madison.

Great, so then Reggie Howard and Travis Daniels will be our starting corners?

He better be prepared to replace him with a big name free agent if this does happen.  I don't care if Madison comes or goes, I am worried about our depth at CB.  I don't want to see Reggie Howard blowing coverages out there anymore.

Don't forget Will Poole, as well as this guy Shirdonya Mitchell. Saban is really high on him, even though he is coming off of an injury. I also expect us to draft a CB in the 2nd round.

I expect first round.

Saban was also high on Kiwaukee Thomas.  What happened to him?

I am not forgetting about Poole, but he's shown that he can't stay healthy.  Depth is a big issue.

     I don't recall Coach Saban saying that.  Point is, Will Poole and Shirdonya Mitchell should be healthy this coming offseason, plus with odds of us drafting Jimmy Williams or Michael Huff it just seems that trading Sam would be the right thing to do.  Everyone says we need to start anew at the quarterback position, well the same thing applies to the secondary. 

  Travis Daniels was just the start of this transition.  Sam had a tough time in this system and he just doesn't fit into what Coach Saban wants to do at the corner position.  If you trade Madison, I think he's worth at least a fourth to fifth round pick, primarily because of his age and his contract.  Someone will take a shot at Madison.

I think we could get a conditional pick out of Madison, but nothing more.  He's only a servicable corner at this point in his career..nothing more.  And besides....a team that was "really close" probably would already have corners better than Madison.

I think he's a good player and would like him to finish his days here, maybe moving out of the #1 position to Pool or Daniels.  Hopefully they'll be able to work something out.

I don't think he wants to be here anymore. He has been way too vocal about not taking a pay cut, when he knows thats the only way he could remain here. I seriously think he wants to go to KC and play with Surtain again.

I feel aprt of the problem with trying to trade Madison,(Other than age contract,declining skills),is (imo) where's the high power offenses in the league,that you need 3-4 good cover corners?

Everyone bulked up the past couple of years on cover corners,to stop the Rams,the Pats,The Colts.

I also feel He's a bad tackeler,so you can't move him to safety.That hurts his trade value...

Just the way I see the situation...

Conditional pick is all Miami'd get for Madison.  I'd like him to stay, and unlike most people in Miami, I think he's still a very solid corner.  Is he still a Pro-Bowler?  Nope.  Is he still physical?  Yep.  Can he cover?  Yep.  Does he get beat deep?  Yep, but so do most corners.  He may no longer be elite, but he's way more than "serviceable", or "adequate".

I would like to add that I feel a number of you guys are too high on Poole. I expect nothing more out of that guy than a nickle back.

I really don't expect more than for him to maybe be the #2 CB or a nickel back, but wouldn't that be better than our nickelback from last year?

Gonna depend on his cap hit for trading him & when they plan on releasing him.

If Miami is waiting till June then a trade will be out of the question because his cap hit would be too much.

If they plann on pre June cut then a trade would be possible.

Madison was not as bad as most want to make him out to be.  For some reason their is a hatred of Madison among Phins fans.  Do not understand that. 

However, I'd say Miami can move him for a 4th or 5th Rd.  Most likely though teams will wait for him to be released because of his contract.

Keep in mind he's clearly a shell of his former self.  I'd be willing to think we could get a conditional pick in 2007 based on how he does in 2006.  I'd ask for a 4th going to a 3rd. 

Oh com'on!  $8.315 million for an aging corner who doesn't tackle is a bargain!!!

Anyone think that Madison was best corner on this team at the end of the season? 

Agree with run_to_win on this one.  Madison was not that great last season and has clearly lost a step.  If he isn't cheating then he isn't covering!  It's time to move on.  He was a great one, but not anymore.  The whole defensive backfield needs to go except for a couple --- maybe.  Sam, Reggie, TeBucky --- bye, bye.  I doubt even Schulters stays.

I would keep Schultes, Daniels, Bell, Poole, and Mitchell.  I would then focus on DB's in the draft like Williams and Huff.  Maybe also pick up a UFA like Nate Clements.

Cutting/trading Madison and keeping Madison will cost about the same amount of money against the cap next season.  So what would be the advantage of getting rid of him one way or another?  Getting him off the books in 2007.  Instead of taking a $3 million cap hit in '07 get rid of Madison now and bring in another vet to go along with Poole and Daniels.  I would be extremely surprised if Madison and Howard either one are here next year. 

I would be surprised if anyone trades for Sam due to his $3+ million/year contract in the next two years.  He's still a pretty good CB but I think teams would rather take their chances on the Dolphins cutting him and grabbing him in FA than giving up a pick and paying that high salary.  The other option is a sign and trade, but I have a feeling that Sam would still want a high signing bonus.

I agree with you Kentucky. Like I said, no one will trade for that cap number knowing that they can get him for nothing if they bide their time.

By the way, why don't you go to the Off topic forum and introduce yourself to us in the roll call thread. I visit Lexington and Louisville sometimes for work, and would like to know a little more about you.

It's good to see you KY!

Is my information outdated?   Madison's prorated bonus is $1.5 mil a year, and his base salary is $8.3 mil this year and $8.4 mil next.

Cutting him costs $3.0 mil (the remaining prorated bonus), but saves the $8.3 mil salary = a net savings of $5.3 mil.

Here is Madison's base salary over the next two years:

2006 3,420,000
2007 4,500,000
 
According to another site his bonus is prorated at almost $3 million for the next two years.  If that info is correct then the Dolphins can cut ties with Madison now, not take a cap hit in '07, and sign a vet at league minimum and still not be out anymore money(assuming they can find a solid vet at league minimum)

i am sure Sammy will re-nogotiate his current contract for about 1.5

If his salary was $8 mil and now it's $3 mil, he probably took that $5 mil as an up front bonus so it could be prorated over the life of the contract. 

Before he restructured his signing bonus was $6 mil (prorated at $1.5 a year over 4 years).  With two years left his old bonus would still count $3 mil towards the cap.  The restructed bonus has to be added on to that.

According to a salary cap page site, Madison's pro-rated bonus amount for 2006 is $2,912,931.  Cutting him would create a $6,332,931 hit - which is probably this years bonus + next years bonus.

That cap hit from the bonus stays with Miami even if he is traded so I don't see him going anywhere before June (when the cap hit can be spread out over two years).




Maybe we could get Thrawn to join and plagarize a cap site for us?  ::)

madison can't be traded... basically it takes someone to trade with, and really, what team is going to absorb a 3.5 million cap hit in 06 to take on sam (besides the fact that they would have to give up something in return)?? well, not counting if schlepman is around with some other organization  ;D thank god that guy is no longer in our front office...

Since a sign and trade is a distinct possibility, that's less of an issue for the receiving team than Miami. 

From Sam's point of view, if he doesn't play, he doesn't get paid.  Mind you, the signing bonus was paid when the contract was restructured - and athletes aren't known for saving money. 

There's nothing Miami can do about the $6.3 cap hit from the prorated portion of the bonus. 

Call the Atlanta Falcons.  They're in dire need of a half decent cover corner.  Maybe we can get Matt Schaub for him. 

That's why I suggested that they could go ahead and cut him.  It appears that if Sam plays next year he is a $6.3+ million cap hit.  If traded he is a $5.8+ million cap hit(What's left of his bonus).  You can save about 500K and get him off the books for '07.