New video released of Ray Rice

[mecadonzilla]

I have no idea what their relationship is like, but it's not unheard of for a woman to marry her abuser simply because she's terrified he will do worse to her if she doesn't marry him.  I'm not saying that's the case in this scenario, but it did happen to one of my family members.

[Cathal]

I have no idea what their relationship is like, but it's not unheard of for a woman to marry her abuser simply because she's terrified he will do worse to her if she doesn't marry him.  I'm not saying that's the case in this scenario, but it did happen to one of my family members.

I know it's not unheard of, but doesn't make it any less stupid.

[Spider-Dan]

I think I'm probably on the wrong side of this issue, but I don't really understand why.  And clearly I don't understand domestic violence.

In this case, she's a victim, but not necessarily an innocent one.  If you spit in someone's face, that is pretty bad provocation.

But that's not even the point.  My main point is that if you get hit and knocked out, that's completely fucked up, and you deserve all the sympathy in the world.  But what I don't understand is why your decision to then stay with and marry that person is beyond criticism.

At some point, you're complicit in your own abuse if you allow it to continue happening.

A couple of common objections to that logic (which may or may not apply in this case) are the following:

- the abusee may be financially dependent on the abuser
- the abusee may want to stay together for the children
- the abuser may have psychologically manipulated the abusee into believing that (s)he is broken and unlovable
- the abuser may have threatened the abusee with many different kinds of retaliation

Given the situation, Palmer was basically forced to make a decision: immediately marry the man she was already engaged to, or completely break it off (because from Rice's standpoint, he needed to marry her immediately).  As you just said, spitting on someone means you're not 100% innocent in the situation, so it's understandable that she would feel somewhat guilty (even if that isn't objectively appropriate) about what Rice is going through.

As I see it, she slapped him, he slapped her back, she spit in his face, and he knocked her out.  His response was unwarranted and excessive, but I can easily see how she would rationalize his response as something that wouldn't have happened if she didn't spit on him.

[Brian Fein]

On the aspect of "excessive force" -

Would the story have been any different had she spit in his face and, as a result, Rice then grabbed her by the neck, pinned her against the elevator wall, and then released her?

Would the story have been any different had he hit her in the face, but she didn't fall over, hit the railing, and go unconscious?

Just wondering where the line of "excess" is drawn...

[Spider-Dan]

In either of those scenarios (presuming the altercation ended there), there would have been no "story," because no one would have known about it.  Even if there was a Solange-style elevator video leak, I doubt the NFL would have gotten involved in a... less disproportionate situation of mutual domestic violence.

[MikeO]

 INSIDE THE NFL on Showtime was a mess this week too covering this topic. After they (and it was really Boomer Esiason and Ed Reed) spend 15-20 min ripping Ray Rice for his domestic violence and hitting of his wife. They say anyone who abuses a woman has no place in our society and no place in the NFL. They are outraged, disgusted, and find it stomach turning. They then in the next segment send it over to their "NEW" co-host Brandon Marshall and are laughing with him and making jokes with him, act just having a party. Yes the same Brandon Marshall who has been arrested on domestic violence and abusing his wife/girlfriend so many times they stopped counting but the number is between 5-10 times. And Marshall has done far worse than Ray Rice it just hasn't been caught on tape yet. Kind of tough to be taken seriously as a broadcaster or a show in general when you take a strong stance against abusing woman but then 15 seconds later you are hugging, laughing with, and joking with the king of abuse himself!

This whole story just puts such a bad light on the NFL and shines a negative light on everything. How SHOWTIME would even cover this issue when they employ Brandon Marshall the king of abusing woman is beyond me. They should have just talked football and just not touched this subject at all.

[EKnight]

5-10 times? Really? I'm not defending his actions at all. Domestic violence is horrible, but if you're going to make claims, at least make them accurate.

He's actually been arrested twice. He was acquitted once and never even charged the other time. Several media outlets are praising the show for Marshall's involvement and his honesty about the topic. -EK

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/brandon-marshall-showtime-inside-the-nfl

[MikeO]

5-10 times? Really? I'm not defending his actions at all. Domestic violence is horrible, but if you're going to make claims, at least make them accurate.

He's actually been arrested twice. He was acquitted once and never even charged the other time. Several media outlets are praising the show for Marshall's involvement and his honesty about the topic. -EK

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/brandon-marshall-showtime-inside-the-nfl

Some fuzzy math going on here but whatever. One domestic violence in college. One in 2007, one in 2009, one in 2011 where he was stabbed but was later reported he was the instigator in that nights evenings. He went to court for it twice but there are more than 2 incidents. If you wanna go back and forth on this we can but the point is its more than 2, some just were dropped right after they happened as some instances are in domestic violence. I mean he stabbed his girlfriend in the leg with a fork that ESPN did a piece on for crying out loud. So the math is a little fuzzy but whatever. Either way using Brandon Marshall as an "expert" on Domestic Violence, while yes he can speak on the subject with some expertise with his history...it's also in very poor taste on every level. It's like NBC or FOX hiring a Terrorist with multiple be-headings on their resume as their Middle Eastern Correspondent and putting him in a suit and on the evening news every night. It's just in poor taste. People like Ray Rice and Brandon Marshall shouldn't be celebrated they should be looked down upon by society.  Not put on TV in a suit and laughing and giggling.

And the fact there is debate on whether Greg Hardy should play this week is also a black eye to the league. Throw these bums OUT OF THE LEAGUE! The NFL will survive without with Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, Brandon Marshall, and Ray McDonald's of the world!

[EKnight]

The math isn't fuzzy. You're just wrong. You said he's been arrested 5-10 times for domestic violence. He hasn't. End of story. If you meant he has a shady past with it, then you should have said that. Your statement was that he has had 5-10 arrests. That's quite a stretch. -EK

[MikeO]

The math isn't fuzzy. You're just wrong. You said he's been arrested 5-10 times for domestic violence. He hasn't. End of story. If you meant he has a shady past with it, then you should have said that. Your statement was that he has had 5-10 arrests. That's quite a stretch. -EK

No its fuzzy but if you want to defend someone with even 1 domestic violence case where they physically assaulted a woman, I'm not interested in even having that discussion. It makes me sick you will find this as a topic to troll about and take the contrarian stance on. You want to defend these clowns and muddy up the numbers when it comes to Marshall and Rice and how many times they beat up a female...go for it. Says more about you than it does me.

Have a nice day

[MikeO]

The Panthers this morning deactivated Greg Hardy. Then Panthers owner Jerry Richardson gave a "NO COMMENT" when asked about it. Now being reported he (Richardson) was forced to do it against his will and he wanted to play the convicted domestic violence offender in Hardy.

This is some league with some leadership!

[MikeO]

Jim Rome and Boomer Esiason just laid the smack down to Charles Barkley on the Adrian Peterson matter! NICE! Made Chuck look stupid

Also good opinion by Boomer on the Ray Rice subject

[dolphins4life]

A couple of common objections to that logic (which may or may not apply in this case) are the following:

- the abusee may be financially dependent on the abuser
- the abusee may want to stay together for the children
- the abuser may have psychologically manipulated the abusee into believing that (s)he is broken and unlovable
- the abuser may have threatened the abusee with many different kinds of retaliation

Given the situation, Palmer was basically forced to make a decision: immediately marry the man she was already engaged to, or completely break it off (because from Rice's standpoint, he needed to marry her immediately).  As you just said, spitting on someone means you're not 100% innocent in the situation, so it's understandable that she would feel somewhat guilty (even if that isn't objectively appropriate) about what Rice is going through.

As I see it, she slapped him, he slapped her back, she spit in his face, and he knocked her out.  His response was unwarranted and excessive, but I can easily see how she would rationalize his response as something that wouldn't have happened if she didn't spit on him.

When girls fall for guys it can be hard for them to leave them.

She might genuinely have very strong feelings for him

[Phishfan]

Locking this thread and deleting the off topic argument.