Windows 10 upgrade offer ends End of July - Have you,will you take it?

[Fau Teixeira]

windows 10 gets a native ubuntu bash shell which is pretty nice

[Spider-Dan]

You missed how Windows 10 provides exclusive access to DirectX 12 and honestly most gamers aren't too worried about performance "particularly with older games". They're more worried about taking advantage of the latest technology with new games and Windows 10 does that.

MS has done this before; they used DirectX10 to try to force gamers to migrate to Vista.  It was unsuccessful, as game developers continued to make games for WinXP's DirectX 9 (many popular games still have DX9 support today).  In any case, every retail game that ships (and is not made by MS themselves) will have DX11 support, until long after all the currently-existing hardware is obsolete.

The idea that "most gamers aren't too worried about performance" is almost too ridiculous to even address.  PC gamers are the single group of PC users that are MOST concerned about performance, which is why high-end PC components are usually targeted at gamers.

Yeah I understand some people would rather NOT have options than have them and have to figure out how to use them, but for those people actually willing to learn new things it's not such a horrible thing to have options.

Very few of these things are actually new technology.  They are already-existing programs that MS has decided to shoehorn into the OS.

I think it's obvious that both of us have made up our minds.  What I'm trying to do is to tell the prospective reader that they shouldn't feel pressured into breaking their currently-working system for some loosely-defined "improvements" that they may not use, or even want.

If you have a currently-working Win7 system today, and you're thinking about doing a Win10 upgrade, then you should find out EXACTLY which new features Win10 offers that you are interested in and then weigh those new features against the possibility of breaking your currently-working system.  And anyone that tells you that you don't need to worry about your system breaking is not being honest with you.

As a person who works on computers for a living, my #1 priority is not breaking working computers.  And my advice reflects this priority.

[Pappy13]

The idea that "most gamers aren't too worried about performance" is almost too ridiculous to even address.

You took that out of context. I said they aren't too worried about performance "particularly with older games". That last part makes all the difference in the world. Sure there are some gamers still playing Crysis 3, but most have moved on and the ones that are still playing, well chances are that Crysis 3 plays better on their Windows 10 hardware then it did on their Windows 7 hardware when it came out. You said it yourself, high end components are targeted toward gamers because game performance is linked directly to your hardware, the OS you are playing it on has about zero to do with it. And those high end components are typically speaking the ones that will take advantage of something like DirectX 12.

As a person who works on computers for a living, my #1 priority is not breaking working computers.  And my advice reflects this priority.

Agreed. For anyone willing to risk the very small chance that you will end up with a broken computer the benefits are tangible. There are lots of things that can break your computer. Anytime you load software onto it you could break your computer. Just connecting to the internet has the potential to break your computer if you happen to get a virus. Many take the risk everyday anyway (like everyone reading this forum for example) and don't end up with a broken computer. Approximately 15% of desktop computers in use today use Windows 10 which is 2nd highest percentage behind Windows 7 at approximately 45%. At some point Windows 10 will surpass Windows 7. The consensus of most reputable sources is that Windows 10 has proven to be a highly reliable, secure, fast, easy to use operating system, in fact the best operating system that Microsoft has ever produced and it's a free upgrade from Windows 7 and above. The choice is yours.

[Spider-Dan]

You took that out of context. I said they aren't too worried about performance "particularly with older games". That last part makes all the difference in the world.

They said the performance was about 0.5% worse on average.  So, on average, you will lose gaming performance by upgrading to Win10.

If the roles were reversed and on average you GAINED performance by upgrading, I'm certain you would be pointing that out.  But unsurprisingly, you lose performance by upgrading to from Win7 to Win10, just as you lost performance by upgrading from WinXP to Win7.

If MS did not start the policy of tying DirectX upgrades to OS upgrades, they never would have been able to get gamers off of WinXP.

There are lots of things that can break your computer. Anytime you load software onto it you could break your computer. Just connecting to the internet has the potential to break your computer if you happen to get a virus. Many take the risk everyday anyway (like everyone reading this forum for example) and don't end up with a broken computer.

When I install a program on my computer, it's because I specifically want to use the features that program offers.  I evaluate where I got the program from, what it does, and weigh that against the possibility of it being spyware or malware.

When I connect to the internet, I evaluate the risks of possibly being infected with a virus or other malware vs. using a computer with no internet connectivity; it's a short and lopsided evaluation.

So, again, when considering an OS upgrade, you should weigh the rewards (e.g. prettier menus, voice commands, getting to re-learn where all the settings are, MS getting detailed reports on your everyday activity) against the risks (e.g. many hours lost trying to repair your broken system), and decide accordingly.

[Pappy13]

They said the performance was about 0.5% worse on average.

Still taking it out of context.  Here's the exact quote.

"In fact, there's a slight drop in performance on average, with Wndows 10 tending to be about .5% slower than Windows 7, particularly with older games - Crysis 3, for instance - although there are some instances where the roles are reversed. Of course .5% is a ridiculously small amount either way, so much so that it's not worth worrying about."

The average is .5%, but you see the "where the roles are reversed" part, that's on newer games where there tends to be a performance improvement, it's just that older games tend to bring down the average. On average you will lose gaming performance but not if you play mostly newer games, then you might actually see a performance improvement. Gamers tend to player newer games, not older ones.

If the roles were reversed and on average you GAINED performance by upgrading, I'm certain you would be pointing that out.

Yep, I just did, on newer games you might, but it's really that last part that is the most important. ".5% is a ridiculously small amount either way, so much so that it's not worth worrying about" and gamers don't. They are much more interested in being able to take advantage of DirectX 12 rather than any imperceptable performance change.

[Spider-Dan]

Given that the number of games that support DX12 today is still hovering around the single-digits, that seems to be a hypothetical gain.  Maybe when there is a considerable library of real, existing DX12 games to play, Win10 might be worth the upgrade.  Of course, in that future, you probably already have Win10 installed on the new PC you've bought.  (Keep in mind that unless you go out and buy a new DX12-capable video card, installing Win10 will not give you DX12 capabilities, and if you're talking about a laptop, you're definitely going to need to buy a new one to use DX12 anyway.)

I'd also point out that you are inferring that Win10 does better on newer games, which is not stated; all that was stated is that Win10 tends to do worse "particularly on older games."  In any case, 0.5% worse is the total average, which (again!) is not a compelling reason to upgrade, because worse is worse than better.

Do you play World of Warcraft?  League of Legends?  Minecraft?  Counter-Strike?  Diablo III?  These are all "older games."

[Pappy13]

Given that the number of games that support DX12 today is still hovering around the single-digits, that seems to be a hypothetical gain.

Agreed. Still if you own one of those games or purchase one in the near future...

(Keep in mind that unless you go out and buy a new DX12-capable video card, installing Win10 will not give you DX12 capabilities, and if you're talking about a laptop, you're definitely going to need to buy a new one to use DX12 anyway.)

Not sure where you are getting this information. I'm no expert on DX12 but from what I have read you do not need a new video card to take advantage of DX12. Now you may not get the full advantage of everything that DX12 provides, but if you have a fairly recent graphics card it can handle DX12 API calls at least that's what NVidia and AMD have said. There is a long list of cards on NVidia's website that support DX12. Has something changed?

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2873545/dont-panic-directx12-wont-require-a-new-graphics-card-after-all.html

I'd also point out that you are inferring that Win10 does better on newer games, which is not stated; all that was stated is that Win10 tends to do worse "particularly on older games."

Well if older games do worse on average and the average is about the same then newer games must make up the difference and do better on average. In fact they did mention that the roles were reversed in some cases meaning that in some games performance is better on W10, but really what I have been saying all along is that W10 performance is really no different then Windows7. .5% average performance loss is not even worth discussing. Keep in mind for the most part those are benchmarking numbers. In reality most games you will see no difference playing on W10 then W7.

In any case, 0.5% worse is the total average, which (again!) is not a compelling reason to upgrade, because worse is worse than better.

I've never said that gaming performance was a compelling reason to upgrade, I've said all along it's simply not a reason NOT to upgrade. Being able to take advantage of DX12 when game developers take advantage of it on the other hand is a reason to upgrade. How compelling can be debated.

Do you play World of Warcraft?  League of Legends?  Minecraft?  Counter-Strike?  Diablo III?  These are all "older games."

I play D3, Heroes of the Storm, StarCraft2 on occasion and host of other games that have all been released in that past 4 years or so, so yes I do play "older games". And I noticed no change when going from W7 to W10 on any of them. Not just performance wise mind you, absolutely no change whatsoever. Games play EXACTLY the same way on W10 that they played on W7. That's why gamers like W10, because there's no difference from W7 (which hasn't always been the case with new operating systems), not because it's markedly better. As I have said from the beginning the thing about W10 which has gamers excited is the prospect of better things with DX12, nothing more, nothing less.

I will also be playing Overwatch when it comes out today on W10. I've been in the beta, game works great on W10. I don't plan on uninstalling to see how it works on W7.

[fyo]

Either MS is lying, or they are implicitly acknowledging that they will be moving Windows to a subscription plan like they did with Office 365.

Microsoft makes relatively little money on sales of Windows to consumers, so even giving it away wouldn't be a disaster.

The big earners for Microsoft are Office, Server Tools, and Business licences.

Direct revenue from consumer Windows licences is not critical and in terms of profits, Microsoft almost certainly stands to make much more money from a Windows 10 consumer in the Windows Store than from the price paid for the operating system itself. The more Microsoft can shift software sales from physical stores or other online sites to its store, the greater the potential for huge profits. Profits that just aren't going to happen if a consumer stays on Windows 7, making it imperative for Microsoft to shift those consumers to Windows 10 even to the point of making the upgrade free.

[Dave Gray]

Windows 10 is trying to push users into their sales environment.  It's exactly why Apple doesn't charge you for upgrades to the iPhone's OS.  They want you on the latest model, so you're likelier to buy apps from their store, of which they get a cut.

I much prefer this business model.

[Spider-Dan]

...and the free Windows 10 upgrade is extended indefinitely (i.e. no given end date) if you use "Assistive Technologies" like screen readers or voice recognition.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/accessibility/windows10upgrade

[Pappy13]

Note that the web page doesn't actually check that you are using any assistive technology software, so all you have to do is answer in the affirmative and you can upgrade for free if you have Windows 7 or greater.

[masterfins]

Well at least the pop windows stopped appearing today!

[Spider-Dan]

I thought that I read somewhere that MS said that 10 would be the final version of windows and that they would just keep updating going forward.

Even if MS did make that statement, I wouldn't believe them until at least 10 years had passed since Win10's release.

There will be no Windows 11 or Windows 12. Windows 10 is the last version of windows that Microsoft will ever make at least If you believe what they have said anyway. From now on all upgrades will just be to a better version of Windows 10. Microsoft is calling it "Windows as a service". I expect at some point they will drop the version number and just call it Windows.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/8568473/windows-10-last-version-of-windows

Sometimes, an "I told you so" needs some time to take root and grow into a mighty oak:

Introducing Windows 11

It was such an obvious lie from the very start that I can hardly feel much satisfaction in having called it.

[Dave Gray]

Is Win11 a free upgrade for Win10 users?

[Fau Teixeira]

yes*


* probably .. right ?.. right?