To those here that live in Philly, I am sorry for your Loss.............

[run_to_win]

Amen.

One of the differences here is that most people on the "right" won't change their view when it happens to one of their loved ones.

Heck, why aren't all repeat felons death-penalty eligible?  I'm still pushing for a sliding scale of "innocent 'til proven guilty".  That's great for your first or second offense.  After a dozen or so.... com'on.

[pintofguinness14]

   

So what do we do then about the person that he killed? He took his life didn't he? He set his expiration date. Some of us believe in an Eye for an Eye. Some of us NEED an Eye for an Eye for closure and to help us grieve. State Attor5neys Take the Victims and their families wishes seriously when deciding on seeking the Death Penalty. They are the only ones that have the RIGHT to decide.

God Forbid you lose someone close to you from a violent act and then tell me about the Pearly gates and all that shit .

I believe the death penalty should be used only as a last resort. In our society of SuperMax prisons and life sentences without parole, it's hardly the case that we have no choice but to kill those who have killed. Regarding your last point, I'd like to think that my convictions would help me overcome the desire to see someone die for harming someone close to me. I wouldn't expect that to be easy, but deeply held beliefs aren't there to get you through the easy times.

[Dave Gray]

I just want to say one thing:

I'm against the death penalty and I'm pro-choice, but probably not for the reasons that most are.

I don't like when the two are compared (Fau's argument about inconsistencies about life, for example), because they are very different situations, driven by motivation.

It's easy to see the inconsistencies between the two if you're going off of the reasoning "protecting the sanctity of life", but it's really a cheap knock on either position.

[Fau Teixeira]

My only point is that pro-lifers make the claim that life starts at conception because at that point, the fetus is imbued with a soul that's the basis for the whole life is precious conversation.

It seems to me that people that are religiously pro-life then suspend their own religion to be for the death penalty.

Defense5499 posted about an eye for an eye. I'll tell you something, "an eye for an eye" isn't a Judeo-Christian doctrine, it's from the Hammurabi code. It comes from the worship of Marduk.

I'm personally against the death penalty because i don't think that a government for the people and by the people, should be killing the people it's for and by.

[run_to_win]

My only point is that pro-lifers make the claim that life starts at conception because at that point, the fetus is imbued with a soul that's the basis for the whole life is precious conversation.

Innocent life if precious.  Had Hitler not committed suicide would you have a problem with his execution?

Baby vs murderer/child molester/rapist/Jets fan - you don't see the difference?

[Dave Gray]

I don't like it when people call a fetus, a baby.  They aren't synonymous.

But, that aside, again you're comparing two things that are unrelated.  A pregnancy is terminated for different reasons than an execution.  Innocence/Guilt is not a driving factor in abortion, while it is the sole factor in execution.

I think the point that Fau is trying to make is that the religious stance on the issue is that life is precious because of the soul.  And rapists, murderers, etc - still have a soul.  The justification for killing them is from man, not from God.  Whereas, the opposite reasoning is used in abortion cases.

[Fau Teixeira]

Innocent life if precious.  Had Hitler not committed suicide would you have a problem with his execution?
Baby vs murderer/child molester/rapist/Jets fan - you don't see the difference?

in answer to your EXTREME scenario question..

I would not have a problem with the US government killing Hitler.

I'll let you try to figure out why based on:

I'm personally against the death penalty because i don't think that a government for the people and by the people, should be killing the people it's for and by.

[run_to_win]

Isn't capital punishment addressed in the Bible in addition to the "Thou shalt not murder" in the Ten Commandment?

While I question whether or not homicidal maniacs and child molesters have souls, for the sake of argument lets agree that they do - so both they and babies have souls.  One has done nothing to forfeit his/her time on earth, the other has.  

Isn't it the very existence of the soul that makes capital punishment NOT the end of one's existence?  If the condemned have a soul and get their appointment with their Maker for final judgement, then aren't we merely in charge of scheduling?

[Guru-In-Vegas]

Just like Dave said an embryo is not a baby.  Its the same reason why an egg is not called a chick. 

[StL FinFan]

I don't think people should abort healthy (babies, fetuses, whatever), but it is up to God to judge them, not me.

Women should not be forced to carry out a pregnancy and give birth to a baby who cannot survive outside the womb if they don't want to.  That is cruel and unusual punishment, IMHO.  I thought it would be something I would never do until this exact scenario happened to someone I know.  It changed my whole view on the subject.

[run_to_win]

in answer to your EXTREME scenario question..

I would not have a problem with the US government killing Hitler.

I'll let you try to figure out why based on:

So you're cool with our government killing non-citizens???

[Fau Teixeira]

So you're cool with our government killing non-citizens???

i'm cool with our government killing heads of state of countries that have declared war on us yes

[landlocked]

I believe the death penalty should be used only as a last resort. In our society of SuperMax prisons and life sentences without parole, it's hardly the case that we have no choice but to kill those who have killed.

I think that if prison was really punishment,i could agree with that.I say take away all the weight lifting,cable t.v.,internet access,college courses,etc.Put these criminals out "breaking up rocks"or something that is really "hard labor",give them just enough nutririon to stay healthy,and they would be too tired to stir up too much trouble at the end of the day.This would save the government tons of money because they wouldn't be big and powerful enough to beat up the guards therefore it would take less manpower to watch over them.For alot of these repeat offenders,prison is alot better than where they came from in the first place.If they have enough connections in the right gang,they can do their time,have sex,do drugs,learn how to be a better criminal,and get their degree....all on our tax money.

[bsmooth]

   

So what do we do then about the person that he killed? He took his life didn't he? He set his expiration date. Some of us believe in an Eye for an Eye. Some of us NEED an Eye for an Eye for closure and to help us grieve. State Attor5neys Take the Victims and their families wishes seriously when deciding on seeking the Death Penalty. They are the only ones that have the RIGHT to decide.

God Forbid you lose someone close to you from a violent act and then tell me about the Pearly gates and all that shit .

As soon as you can guarantee no innocent people will ever be wrongly convicted and executed, come talk to me and I will buy a ticket on your bandwagon, but until then, it is a no go. How much closure would a family get if someone else was wrongly convicted and murdered so they could feel they got their "justice" How do you make up for that colossal fucking mistake? Who should give up their life? And don't think for a minute this country has not executed wrongly convicted criminals in the past.

[run_to_win]

I think that if prison was really punishment,i could agree with that.I say take away all the weight lifting,cable t.v.,internet access,college courses,etc.Put these criminals out "breaking up rocks"or something that is really "hard labor",give them just enough nutririon to stay healthy,and they would be too tired to stir up too much trouble at the end of the day.This would save the government tons of money because they wouldn't be big and powerful enough to beat up the guards therefore it would take less manpower to watch over them.For alot of these repeat offenders,prison is alot better than where they came from in the first place.If they have enough connections in the right gang,they can do their time,have sex,do drugs,learn how to be a better criminal,and get their degree....all on our tax money.

This is one of those ideal world vs real world issues.  Ideally, execution should be much less expensive than prison.  How much does a bullet cost?