Ginn at #9..............the worst pick of the decade?

[run_to_win]

I don't see it as his size,but Steve Smith is a jukey little shit,in the way Wes welker is,Ginn (IMO) is more of a Willie Gault,Rocket Ismail type of great speed in a straight line...Doesn't have that wiggle,elusivness of a Steve Smith....

Did you just support your opinion with an observation?  Is that allowed here?

[bsfins]

I guess I did,did that actually sound smart? I better stop doing that....

[bsmooth]

Did that really have Urlacher as the worst lb?

[bsfins]

No he was just the 9th over all pick int he draft...

[Philly Fin Fan]

Did that really have Urlacher as the worst lb?

To further clarify what Lil B just said- the article compares all of the players selected at the same spot in the draft. So this is a comparison of all of the #9 overall picks for the last so many years.

[fyo]

I'd just like to note that the premise of the article is stupid. By only comparing to the exact same slot in the draft and only for a decade, the sample size becomes ridiculously low. And when you furthermore consider that the last 2-3 players taken are still up in the air, well, that's just reporting for the sake of reporting.

Long term, I think there's a good chance Carlos Rogers will be the worst of the bunch... not that it means much, for the reasons cited above... The Redskins were 20th against #1 receivers and teams picked on him all game last year just waiting for him to break (which he did).  On the other hand, the skins were the second best team against #2 receivers...

Now, that's not just because Rogers struggled at times. The Redskins also left him a bit "out on an island", whereas Shawn Springs received more support.

[Defense54]

 

Posted by: run_to_win
That makes no dang sense.   If Ginn becomes the next Rice & Quinn is a bust then it was a bad pick?   That is great scouting & great confidence in your ability to judge talent.

   

It makes plenty of sense.  Just because somebody goes over the falls in a barrel and survives.........does that mean the Risk was worth it?  Say a worker is given $500 by his boss to get materials and instead he buys $500 worth of Lotto tickets and he hits for $100,000.  That's great but he never should have taken that risk . Cameron  had a responsibility to the Team, to the Fans and to The Management.  He rolled the dice instead of playing it safe and THAT is the number one reason he is gone. The 1-15 thing didn't help either........  

[YoFuggedaboutit]

 

It makes plenty of sense.  Just because somebody goes over the falls in a barrel and survives.........does that mean the Risk was worth it?  Say a worker is given $500 by his boss to get materials and instead he buys $500 worth of Lotto tickets and he hits for $100,000.  That's great but he never should have taken that risk . Cameron  had a responsibility to the Team, to the Fans and to The Management.  He rolled the dice instead of playing it safe and THAT is the number one reason he is gone. The 1-15 thing didn't help either........  

Neither did losing control of the team and losing respect from his players.

[doctord56]

Cam Cameron had many reasons for being fired, but the whole Ted Ginn draft day issue was the first sign that something was seriously amiss. Obviously, Cameron turned out to be a bad judge of talent, a bad game day coach, a bad strategist, and a bad leader of men....a perfect storm of ineptitude.

Be that as it may, given my lifelong love for the dolphins, I am hopeful that Ted Ginn ultimately turns out to be a good player who helps the team win games, as he is not without ability, and ditto for John Beck. Hopeful, but not without pessimism, in the matter of these two players.

[Defense54]

Cam Cameron had many reasons for being fired, but the whole Ted Ginn draft day issue was the first sign that something was seriously amiss. Obviously, Cameron turned out to be a bad judge of talent, a bad game day coach, a bad strategist, and a bad leader of men....a perfect storm of ineptitude.

Be that as it may, given my lifelong love for the dolphins, I am hopeful that Ted Ginn ultimately turns out to be a good player who helps the team win games, as he is not without ability, and ditto for John Beck. Hopeful, but not without pessimism, in the matter of these two players.

+1  I agree with everything you said........I hope Ginn becomes very sucessful but in your first official act as head coach and you take a punt returner/reciver over a possible frachise QB!?  It doesn't matter if he turned out to be a good back........the FANS and the team needed that pick. It was a sign of hope, a sign that someone at least had a plan. He set the attitude for the year and when he traded Chambers mid season everyone just gave up.

[Dphins4me]

 

It makes plenty of sense.  Just because somebody goes over the falls in a barrel and survives.........does that mean the Risk was worth it?  Say a worker is given $500 by his boss to get materials and instead he buys $500 worth of Lotto tickets and he hits for $100,000.  That's great but he never should have taken that risk . Cameron  had a responsibility to the Team, to the Fans and to The Management.  He rolled the dice instead of playing it safe and THAT is the number one reason he is gone. The 1-15 thing didn't help either........  

  First off Cam is gone because he had an idiot for an owner who thought Miami actually had a team worthy of making the playoffs.  Saban did not bail because he had a quality team in Miami that is for sure.  Bad luck & injuries & some stupid comments did not help either.

  Second, those analogy are not working for me.  I see you comparing apples & oranges.  Buying lotto tickets to drafting players just do not compare.  Cam was rolling the dice on drafting Quinn also, just because fans wanted him with all the of the media hype does not mean he should have drafted him.  You are talking as if teams were jumping for joy when Miami passed on him.    They weren't

11 teams passed on Quinn after Miami did.  Not to mention the 8 teams that did prior to Miami & one of them drafted a Qb.  Lets remember Quinn lost the top Qb spot because questions about his ability.  So that is 20 teams out of 32 ( Not counting Miami )  that felt Quinn was not worth being drafted in the top 20 of Rd. 1.

How is drafting Quinn fulfilling his responsibility to the team, fans & management?  Is drafting a player 11 teams deemed not worthy of drafting after Miami responsible?  Are you suggesting that the people running NFL teams to listen to the masses in order to make their decisions? 

If you are hired someone to run your company, would you not want them to do the job that they think is best or do you want them walking around & ask Carl the night janitor what business move he should make?  That is exactly what you are saying Cam/Muellar should have done.   Its not like Quinn was coming into the NFL as the next Peyton Manning. 

 Miami need for a Qb does not mean they had to draft one the first chance they got in that draft.  They took Beck over Quinn.   Its not like they did not draft a QB to take over the team.     They liked what Beck brought to the table.

I do wonder if fans would be just as down on Quinn as they are on Beck had Quinn performed in Miami last year the same way Beck did?  I highly doubt it.  It was be excuse city.


What did Quinn do in college that makes him the apple of some Miami's eye?

[doctord56]

I suppose we really won't know the answer to these questions until oh, about 2011. By that point we'll have a sense as to what kind of pro football players Brady Quinn and Ted Ginn turned out to be, as well as John Beck. Anything we say now is just speculation and attempts at prophecy.

In the meantime, the dolphins for better or worse have Ginn and Beck, and hopefully one or both of them turns out to be a valuable player for the team. Cameron did make at least one good pick in Samson Satele, though I suppose even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and then.

[Sunstroke]

I suppose even a blind pig finds an acorn every now and then.

Actually, a blind pig finds acorns just as well as a pig with perfect vision (it isn't their vision that finds that acorn)...but the missing squirrels and I get your point.

[simeon]

  First off Cam is gone because he had an idiot for an owner who thought Miami actually had a team worthy of making the playoffs.  Saban did not bail because he had a quality team in Miami that is for sure.  Bad luck & injuries & some stupid comments did not help either.

  Second, those analogy are not working for me.  I see you comparing apples & oranges.  Buying lotto tickets to drafting players just do not compare.  Cam was rolling the dice on drafting Quinn also, just because fans wanted him with all the of the media hype does not mean he should have drafted him.  You are talking as if teams were jumping for joy when Miami passed on him.    They weren't

11 teams passed on Quinn after Miami did.  Not to mention the 8 teams that did prior to Miami & one of them drafted a Qb.  Lets remember Quinn lost the top Qb spot because questions about his ability.  So that is 20 teams out of 32 ( Not counting Miami )  that felt Quinn was not worth being drafted in the top 20 of Rd. 1.

How is drafting Quinn fulfilling his responsibility to the team, fans & management?  Is drafting a player 11 teams deemed not worthy of drafting after Miami responsible?  Are you suggesting that the people running NFL teams to listen to the masses in order to make their decisions? 

If you are hired someone to run your company, would you not want them to do the job that they think is best or do you want them walking around & ask Carl the night janitor what business move he should make?  That is exactly what you are saying Cam/Muellar should have done.   Its not like Quinn was coming into the NFL as the next Peyton Manning. 

 Miami need for a Qb does not mean they had to draft one the first chance they got in that draft.  They took Beck over Quinn.   Its not like they did not draft a QB to take over the team.     They liked what Beck brought to the table.

I do wonder if fans would be just as down on Quinn as they are on Beck had Quinn performed in Miami last year the same way Beck did?  I highly doubt it.  It was be excuse city.


What did Quinn do in college that makes him the apple of some Miami's eye?

Great post and great points. I am glad we didn't get Quinn as I questioned his ability too.
However I wish we could have done better then Ted Ginn Jr. Hey I hope this kid makes us all eat crow this year, same goes for Beck.

[Defense54]

 

First off Cam is gone because he had an idiot for an owner who thought Miami actually had a team worthy of making the playoffs. 

He's an idiot for picking Cam in the first place........

Saban did not bail because he had a quality team in Miami that is for sure.  Bad luck & injuries & some stupid comments did not help either.

What does Saban have to do with Cam picking Ginn with the first Pick? If the team is as bad as you say wouldn't a better building spot be a QB and not a punt returner? 

  Second, those analogy are not working for me.

   That doesn't make them incorrect either.



 

11 teams passed on Quinn after Miami did.

  Talk about a bullshit statement.........We passed on McFadden this year. Does that mean that Mcfadden is not going to be a great RB or can it be that we already have depth at that position?

Lets remember Quinn lost the top QB spot because questions about his ability. 

  Beck didn't!? How about his age as well?  Marino had questions as well, WTF does that mean?

So that is 20 teams out of 32 ( Not counting Miami )  that felt Quinn was not worth being drafted in the top 20 of Rd. 1.

Marino was picked # 27 what does that prove?  Tom Brady in the SIXTH round. 

How is drafting Quinn fulfilling his responsibility to the team, fans & management?

Because for once ..........for fucks sake just once.........the Fans WANTED IT. It was the safe bet.  You pick Quinn and he fails nobody would have blamed Cam. But you see what happened when he didn't.



 

Is drafting a player 11 teams deemed not worthy of drafting after Miami responsible? 

Who said he wasn't worthy? Since when is not being in a position of need make you not worthy? Should I piss on Ginn because at least 9 other teams did not want him? How many rounds would he have dropped?

Are you suggesting that the people running NFL teams to listen to the masses in order to make their decisions? 

   YES I DO. Of course don't make a practice of it, but with your very first pick do the right thing. He didn't , look where he is now.

You can disagree all you want and claim not to get what I'm saying. But the fact is  is that Cam Cameron was booted after only 1 season. Lots of coaches had 1-15 seasons and stayed to make another go at it. . If History is a good judge of character Wayne Huizenga has more patience then any other owner in the History of the NFL.  Ask yourself why did Cameron get booted? The seeds were planted the minute he passed over Quinn. What Quinn becomes does not matter. THAT was the right pick at that time. Its that simple.