Brady Quinn over Ted Ginn plus Cam Cameron's incompetence

[StL FinFan]

You say Beck is unproven, but so is Quinn.  Some guys who excel in college become stars in the NFL, some become average, some become busts.  Only time will tell.

[Dphins4me]

This is about logic. You are in the need of a cornerstone for the franchise, most successful organizations build around a QB. Maybe Quinn is not a world beater, but you justify passing up a potential franchise QB for a specialist? An injured one at that? Ginn would have been nice later in the round, a steal in the 2nd, but MIA that year needed an anchor at QB in the worst way. I know you bring up Beck, but to reiterate about the Mormon he's too old for a rookie, unproven, & doesn't have the upside that Quinn has.

  What is the difference between Beck & Quinn?   Hype, is the major factor.  You guys at as if Miami ignored the QB spot.

They were drafted only 18 picks apart.    Its will always be up in the air as to wheret Ginn would have been picked had Miami not drafted him.  However, we know Quinn was not picked until 13 slots later.  That tells me all I need to know about how NFL teams viewed his talent entering the NFL.

As I've said before.  This does not mean he cannot or will be a quality QB.  Just that NFL teams viewed him with such weaknesses in his game that they were not willing to invest a top 20 1st Rd. pick on him.

The major factor here is most fans knew of Brady Quinn & not John Beck.  Just because you come from a big named school with lots of hype does not mean you are a better QB than a player from a smaller named school without the hype.  Had Beck played on the East Coast then we would have known more about him.

[TEKGOD]

 
The major factor here is most fans knew of Brady Quinn & not John Beck. 

Ask yourself why is that? Its because Quinn's reputation comes from playing against better competition & was in more big games than Beck. Beck lovers point to his workouts & camps. You tell me which you think holds more clout. As to Quinn maybe being a flop that applies to anyone so pointing that out is moot we are talking about potential here. Beck may very well be the superstar that you see in your pipe dreams but the fact remains that on draft day it was a reach to pass up Quinn & go for a KICK RETURNER or slot receiver at best. And his family.

[doctord56]

You say Beck is unproven, but so is Quinn.  Some guys who excel in college become stars in the NFL, some become average, some become busts.  Only time will tell.

I couldn't agree more; right now Ginn, Quinn and Beck (sounds like a law firm) are all unproven commodities. "Only time will tell" whether each one becomes a total out of the league bust, a serviceable backup, a solid starter, or a pro bowl level star.

It would be fun to grave dig these posts in oh, about 2011, and see how things turned out. Then those who guessed wrong can be appropriately mocked.

[DolFan619]

And what posistion would you say was more pressing though? The Number one position on the team that we have had a hole in for the last 8 years.........or a MLB who we have pretty decent depth at......we did draft Joey Porter at the end of last season.    QB goes beyond Sexy...........I suggest you start reading some more of the posts you just cut and paste. 

  I love how you simply refer to me as a "cut and paste guy with no mind of my own."  I'll say this, I would rather be a "cut and paste guy" than a racist.

  Anyways, what position was more pressing?  The same position that was most pressing for the Dolphins leading into the 2008 NFL Draft....  the offensive line.  As I stated in one of my previous posts, I was hoping that the Dolphins would be able to draft Levi Brown with their first overall pick and then grab a quarterback in the second round.  Well, Levi didn't fall to the Dolphins.  The next best offensive lineman available was Joe Staley out of Central Michigan.  We could've drafted Staley, put him on the left side and kept Vernon Carey at his natural RT spot.  Some would've considered Staley a bigger reach than Ginn had we drafted him at that spot, but Staley would've filled one of the team's most pressing needs.

[Rick]

   We could've drafted Staley, put him on the left side and kept Vernon Carey at his natural RT spot.  Some would've considered Staley a bigger reach than Ginn had we drafted him at that spot, but Staley would've filled one of the team's most pressing needs.

  That's just crazy talk!!  Staley was drafted at # 28 by San Fransico.  Miami had the 9th pick in the draft.  That's not a reach.......That's just insane.  There was a QB that was projected as high as # 1 available at # 9.  A QB which Miami desperately needed.  A QB that dosen't have happy feet in the pocket or deer in the headlight syndrome.  Also, a QB who is alot more value then a KICK RETURNER.

[Guru-In-Vegas]

Am I the only one this doesn't make sense to?

Umm, is it really that hard to grasp?  Granted, its not a very Shakespearian sentence but the idea isn't that hard to comprehend.  We draft a Quinn in the first round, he turns out to be a bust, OH WELL.  Its happened.  The rewards are well worth the risk.  We skip a QB (WHICH WE NEEDED TO ADRESS LAST YEAR!) to draft a broken "fast guy".  THEN that QB we skipped turns out to be the next Marino.  Sunstroke's foot wouldn't be enough to stuff the mouths of those who opposed Quinn.  No matter how awesome Ginn turns out to be, it would never compare to a good QB. 

Do you honestly believe we would have drafted Henne had we taken Quinn last year? We will never know, but I seriously doubt it. So our eggs would have still been in one basket, Brady Quinn and I couldn't stand that. If we had taken Quinn we probably would have still taken the old man last year because we had to have a veteran QB. We would probably still be stuck with Lemon and Beck wouldn't be here either. Our QB roster would likely be Quinn, Lemon, and some unknown goof. I don't feel confident with that at all.

Could be that we still would have taken Henne.  I mean, we do have Beck and we still picked up Henne!    But lets say we picked up Quinn with no obvious need to address QB this draft.  I'm sure there are very suitable picks that we could have used to address KR/PR/WR with the pick used on Henne. 

[DolFan619]

  That's just crazy talk!!  Staley was drafted at # 28 by San Fransico.  Miami had the 9th pick in the draft.  That's not a reach.......That's just insane.  There was a QB that was projected as high as # 1 available at # 9.  A QB which Miami desperately needed.  A QB that dosen't have happy feet in the pocket or deer in the headlight syndrome.  Also, a QB who is alot more value then a KICK RETURNER.

  Stop referring to Ginn as a kick returner.  That's not what he is, he is a WIDE RECEIVER.  Return duties are secondary.  Just because the guy who drafted him used a poor choice of words, and labeled him the wrong way, it shouldn't define the kid as such. 

  Brady Quinn was projected at #1, but he fell all the way down to #22.  Had the Browns not traded up to that spot, Brady may have fallen even further.  Some of you guys are still living off of the ESPN and Notre Dame hype that surrounded him.  You say you watched Brady for four years at Notre Dame?  Well so did I.  I haven't forgotten that his first two years were absolutely awful, and his knack for choking and completely dissappearing in the big games are still fresh in my mind.  Who's to say that Quinn wouldn't have had the same look that John Beck had this year had he played with the surrounding cast that Beck had?  Fact of the matter is, to call Quinn a franchise quarterback is laughable and is rather presumptious considering he hasn't played a meaningful down of NFL football.

[simeon]

  Stop referring to Ginn as a kick returner.  That's not what he is, he is a WIDE RECEIVER.  Return duties are secondary.  Just because the guy who drafted him used a poor choice of words, and labeled him the wrong way, it shouldn't define the kid as such. 

You got it all wrong, Ted Ginn Jr is a KR who happens to play WR also, not the other way around. I believe he may be the next Desmond Howard.

[Dphins4me]

Ask yourself why is that? Its because Quinn's reputation comes from playing against better competition & was in more big games than Beck. Beck lovers point to his workouts & camps. You tell me which you think holds more clout. As to Quinn maybe being a flop that applies to anyone so pointing that out is moot we are talking about potential here. Beck may very well be the superstar that you see in your pipe dreams but the fact remains that on draft day it was a reach to pass up Quinn & go for a KICK RETURNER or slot receiver at best. And his family.

  Sure Quinn played in a few big games.  How did he perform in those games?  Also, don't fool yourself either into thinking Notre Dame plays a tough schedule.  They play a lot of bigger named school with very average football teams like Purdue. Mich St.   I'm not saying BYU plays any better, just that ND is not playing the heavy weights of college either.

You have yet to explain why it was a reach to pass on Quinn?  Was his name simply to big to not take?  What the special qualities Quinn has?  If Quinn is so good then why was he not drafted until 22?  That is lower than where Rex Grossman was drafted.  Ouch.

Also, might want to understand what a slot Wr does.  Ginn is no where a slot type Wr.   Also to include " At best " means you would rather Ginn fail than to be wrong about it.  Shameful.

[Dphins4me]

  That's just crazy talk!!  Staley was drafted at # 28 by San Fransico.  Miami had the 9th pick in the draft.  That's not a reach........

  What?  Drafting a player that went 28 is crazy, but drafting a player that went 22 wouldn't be?

That's just insane.  There was a QB that was projected as high as # 1 available at # 9.

   Key word is " Projected "   Projected by people who are simply playing fantasy GM.  Not by the people who actually do the job.

That is extremely huge.

  A QB which Miami desperately needed.  A QB that dosen't have happy feet in the pocket or deer in the headlight syndrome.  Also, a QB who is alot more value then a KICK RETURNER.

   Just about every rookie Qb will have happy feet, especially when they have no running game to slow the D down.

[Defense54]

  I love how you simply refer to me as a "cut and paste guy with no mind of my own."  I'll say this, I would rather be a "cut and paste guy" than a racist.

  

LOL! Here we go.......I must have hit a sore spot Mr. Cut and Paste if you felt you needed to go there.  Sorry the truth hurts. Glad to actually hear your opinions though instead of just another article that you copied.  Please keep it up.........

[Defense54]

 

=DolFan619 link=topic=11088.msg116859#msg116859 date=1214444174]
  Stop referring to Ginn as a kick returner.  That's not what he is, he is a WIDE RECEIVER.  Return duties are secondary.  Just because the guy who drafted him used a poor choice of words, and labeled him the wrong way, it shouldn't define the kid as such. 

You don't send a #1 reciever on Punt retuns. I don't know when the last time I saw Chambers taking punts..........

 

Brady Quinn was projected at #1, but he fell all the way down to #22.  Had the Browns not traded up to that spot, Brady may have fallen even further.  Some of you guys are still living off of the ESPN and Notre Dame hype that surrounded him.  You say you watched Brady for four years at Notre Dame?  Well so did I.  I haven't forgotten that his first two years were absolutely awful, and his knack for choking and completely dissappearing in the big games are still fresh in my mind.  Who's to say that Quinn wouldn't have had the same look that John Beck had this year had he played with the surrounding cast that Beck had?  Fact of the matter is, to call Quinn a franchise quarterback is laughable and is rather presumptious considering he hasn't played a meaningful down of NFL football.

Thats how the Draft works. 

A. He dropped after Miami becuase not many Teams had a need for a QB. 

B. Some of the teams felt that Miami and Quinn were so made for each other I'm sure they were all second guessing themselves........like what does Cam know that we don"t? They soon got the answer.........nothing. 

C. #22 in the FIRST round is not Too Shaby. Dan Marino got picked at #27 and was the last out of the famed 83 QB class to get drafted. WTF does that mean? Round 1 is round 1.

[DolFan619]

You don't send a #1 reciever on Punt retuns. I don't know when the last time I saw Chambers taking punts..........

  Last time you saw Chambers taking punts and kickoffs?  How about 2001?  In his rookie year.  36 kick returns, 811 yards, 22.5 return average, and a longest return of 47 yards.  It's not totally uncommon for #1 receivers too see some time as PR/KR, O.J. McDuffie did it.  McDuffie was also a PR for the Dolphins for seven years during his eight year tenure with the Dolphins.  He returned kickoffs in four of those seasons as well.  I don't think that made O.J. McDuffie any less of a receiver.  Nobody slapped the label of "returner" on McDuffie as much as some of you do with Ginn. 

http://www.armchairgm.com/O.J._McDuffie#Punt_Return_Stats
 

B. Some of the teams felt that Miami and Quinn were so made for each other I'm sure they were all second guessing themselves........like what does Cam know that we don"t? They soon got the answer.........nothing. 

  Really?  What teams felt that Miami and Brady Quinn were made for each other?  Secondly, Those teams haven't gotten an answer because nobody has seen Brady Quinn play a meaningful down in the NFL.  So, a lot of teams still don't have a clue as to what kind of NFL quarterback Brady Quinn is.  A lot of you are overlooking this point.

C. #22 in the FIRST round is not Too Shaby. Dan Marino got picked at #27 and was the last out of the famed 83 QB class to get drafted. WTF does that mean? Round 1 is round 1.

  Not too shabby, but it's still a fall from grace for a guy that was projected by the number one overall pick before the college football season began.  Marino did go later than Quinn, but that was for a totally different reason.  Marino fell because of alleged cocaine use, and that really hurt his stock.  Had that rumor not been put out there, the Dolphins would've never had a shot at Marino.

[fyo]

A. He dropped after Miami becuase not many Teams had a need for a QB. 

That's a BS argument. If draft evaluators for REAL TEAMS had actually considered Quinn a potential franchise quarterback (one whom you keep mentioning in the same breath as Marino), they would have taken him regardless. You NEVER pass on a franchise quarterback - unless you are 100% positive you really do have a (young) franchise quarterback already.

Let's look at the teams that drafted after us who PASSED on Quinn:

Texans: Matt Schaub and Safe Rosenfels had both performed about average (mid 80s passer ratings). I doubt anyone, Texans staff or otherwise, believed either of these two to be franchise quarterbacks.

49ers: Alex Smith and Trent Dilfer. While they did have a lot invested in Smith, the uncertainty about his talent should certainly have been enough to at least consider going for a true franchise quarterback. But, OK, it was probably a year early..

Bills: JP Losman and Trent Edwards. Not a year early here. Losman had played 3 years, starting for two, and never rising above average. In that case, you don't let a franchise quarterback slip... you grab him just like the Chargers did with Rivers. And if your old guy turns it around, well, that's not exactly bad ;-)

Rams: Marc Bulger and Gus Frerotte. If there was even a decent chance Quinn was franchise quarterback material, the Rams should have been all over him. Bulger had turned 30 and despite still performing well, at times, he was clearly on the downside of his career. Perfect time to draft you young successor and let him sit for a year or two, learning behind a good (but old) quarterback.

Jets: Chad Pennington and Kellen Clemens. To pass up a potential franchise quarterback, you really had to be sure that Clemens was the future of the franchise. Otherwise, you do what Parcells did this year and get someone else (Henne) as insurance.

Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger and Charlie Batch. Pittsburgh had their franchise guy and was convinced of it. No reason to grab a QB this high when what you really needed were the last pieces for a Super Bowl run.

Packers: Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers. Like with the Jets, you really need to be sure your unproven guy is the real deal. If in doubt, you don't let a potential franchise quarterback slip.

Broncos: Jake Plummer and Jay Cuttler. Denver clearly believed Cuttler, who had shown flashes of great play, was the future.

Bengals: Carson Palmer. Two great seasons from him with a lot of years still left, so no reason to grab a replacement for another couple of years.

Titans: Vince Young. The Titans were still praying Young was going to be great. Getting another first round quarterback was just not in the cards. With another disastrous season under his belt, that's changed. But passing on Quinn was understandable, even if they believed him to be a potential franchise quarterback.

Giants: Eli Manning. The investment in Eli didn't, and doesn't, allow for any spending on quarterbacks.

Jaguars: David Garrard and Byron Leftwich. Two very mediocre quarterbacks with 5-6 seasons under their belts. There's just no excuse for NOT drafting a potential franchise quarterback, if they truly believed Quinn to be that. Sure, Garrard turned out to have a really good 2007 season, but the gamble on a career backup approaching 30 (which he is now) was too great and there's no way they would have passed up a potential franchise quarterback.

In short, I disagree with your premise that the next 12 teams were not in need of a new quarterback. Even ignoring the fact that ALL teams could use a FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK, many of the 12 had big question marks at the game's most important position. Clearly, they didn't believe in the media hype surrounding Quinn.

Time will tell if media "experts" were right and the paid professionals wrong...