Beck’s chances dwindling

[YoFuggedaboutit]

By that "logic", they think the same of McCown.

Wouldn't surprise me if they cut them both loose and brought in someone else. 

[Spider-Dan]

If you think there is a competition between Beck and Henne at this point, then I don't think you've been paying attention this preseason. Beck is headed out in short order, and Henne is the future QB of this franchise.

...that is, unless he isn't.

Again, before you anoint Henne as the new face of the franchise, you might want to wait for him to actually play in a regular season game.  I can't believe that any of the anti-Beck (or pro-Henne) people can have such short memories; I mean, it's not like we're talking about a situation 10 years ago, when we had a 2nd round pick that was a second-tier QB prospect, brought in to be the new franchise QB, who looked impressive in camp and preseason only to disappoint when put in for real.  It was last freaking year!

Like the saying goes, those who do not learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them.  Perhaps you should consider that Henne might pull a Beck out there and stink it up, in which case I'd rather have two prospects to develop than one.  We have two baskets here, and one is certainly shinier and newer than the other, but it still doesn't mean that we should put all of our eggs in it.

It would be one thing if Henne was JeMarcus Russell, or Matt Ryan, or something; when you spend a high first on a QB, you have to ride him to the bottom.  But we spent a higher pick on Beck (40) than we did on Henne (57)!  I'm not saying that means we need to make Beck work, but I am saying that Henne is far below the level where he is entrenched as the prospect.

As for how this relates to McCown... let's be honest.  There are anti-Beck people, there are pro-Beck people, and there are anti-McCown people, but there are no pro-McCown people.  The people who want to "keep" McCown really just want to get rid of Beck.

[formerfinsfan]

With Pennington holding down the fort, Miami just needs to keep Beck and Henne and dump McCown. Given, Beck hasn't showed much of anything, but the pivotal year for a QB is his third one. A year from now, if Beck is still lost and unproductive, cut him and draft somebody else. I expect Pennington to start for the Dolphins next season too. He signed a two-year deal and he's a Parcells guy. Somebody will have to beat him out of that job, and I don't see either one doing that anytime soon.

[Sunstroke]

But we spent a higher pick on Beck (40) than we did on Henne (57)!

Key point missed in this statement is that there were two different "we's" involved. The Cameron We and the Ireland-Parcells We.  All We's are not created equal...

There was another difference between the two selections as well... When Henne was drafted, I gave it my Sunstroke Clairvoyant Seal of Approval, and when Beck was selected, I threw up a little bit in my mouth.

Bottom line is that, regardless of what arbitrary point in a draft these two were selected, Henne is a better QB than Beck. Spin all the angles and numbers all you want, but in the end, it all comes down to that one simple truth.

[Rick]

I expect Pennington to start for the Dolphins next season too. He signed a two-year deal and he's a Parcells guy. Somebody will have to beat him out of that job, and I don't see either one doing that anytime soon.

  You obviously have never seen Chad Henne play....he's good!!

[afphinfan]

I am more excited about the phins QB prospects than at any time since Marino. I like Pennington's experience, knowledge and I am not too worried about his arm strength. I also really like the potential that Henne and Beck give us ... two younger QBs that are talented (don't care what you say about Beck). If they can be given a chance to develop and don't have to be thrown to the wolves like Beck last year then either one might develop into our future qb and maybe the other as a decent backup. McCown has had chances albeit crappy ones but has never shown much ... why bother? If Penny gets hurt which is possible then we can insert Beck and then sign someone the next day. If we get through this year without an injury and the same scenario happens then whomever is showing better progress can be used (this gives Henne his full year of just learning the ropes) ... which is what should have been done with Beck. He has accuracy and arm strength but he is afraid of getting killed like last year and someone needs to teach him to get rid of the ball faster. C-pep had the same issue when the o-line dripped like a $5 ho and he got his @$$ handed to him. He wasn't a saviour with the Raiders but wasn't horrid like when he was here.

Take the $2.5million hit and cut the clown.

[DolFan619]

  You obviously have never seen Chad Henne play....he's good!!

  He's certainly better than Brady Quinn.

[Rick]

^^^^^^

[Spider-Dan]

Key point missed in this statement is that there were two different "we's" involved. The Cameron We and the Ireland-Parcells We.  All We's are not created equal...

Zach and JT were Jimmy Johnson "we's".  Ricky and Vernon Carey are Wanny "we's".  Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder, and Will Allen are Saban "we's".  Samson Satele, Ted Ginn, and Joey Porter are Cameron "we's".  Does it really matter which coach acquired whom?

Bottom line is that, regardless of what arbitrary point in a draft these two were selected, Henne is a better QB than Beck. Spin all the angles and numbers all you want, but in the end, it all comes down to that one simple truth.

I thought I made it clear that I was not using draft placement as an argument to keep him; I was simply pointing out that if one considers a #40 pick to be easily discardable after 5 games, then one should not consider a #57 pick to be entrenched as the future.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to this:

1) Beck's first camp/preseason was not noticeably different than Henne's has been
2) It is entirely possible that Henne may fold at the helm of a sorry team, just as Beck did
3) (most importantly) Since Pennington's signing, McCown carries no value to this team

If you want to argue for cutting both McCown and Beck (and picking up someone else as backup), fine.  There's definitely an argument to be made there.  But to cut Beck and keep McCown is just absurd.  McCown brings nothing to the table; he has nothing to teach Henne that Pennington can't teach better.

[StL FinFan]

^ Excellent post.  However, there are some people who are so entrenched in their hatred of Beck and/or love of Henne, they just cannot see us keeping both of them.

[afphinfan]

1) Beck's first camp/preseason was not noticeably different than Henne's has been
2) It is entirely possible that Henne may fold at the helm of a sorry team, just as Beck did
3) (most importantly) Since Pennington's signing, McCown carries no value to this team

If you want to argue for cutting both McCown and Beck (and picking up someone else as backup), fine.  There's definitely an argument to be made there.  But to cut Beck and keep McCown is just absurd.  McCown brings nothing to the table; he has nothing to teach Henne that Pennington can't teach better.

Good Post ... and for all the Ginn/Beck haters, noticed Quinns game stats? Not the greatest ... and they have a better team; Ken Dorsey's stats were better than his in the last game.

[YoFuggedaboutit]

Ultimately, I think it comes down to this:

1) Beck's first camp/preseason was not noticeably different than Henne's has been
2) It is entirely possible that Henne may fold at the helm of a sorry team, just as Beck did
3) (most importantly) Since Pennington's signing, McCown carries no value to this team

If you want to argue for cutting both McCown and Beck (and picking up someone else as backup), fine.  There's definitely an argument to be made there.  But to cut Beck and keep McCown is just absurd.  McCown brings nothing to the table; he has nothing to teach Henne that Pennington can't teach better.

OK, I have to disagree a little bit here. 

1.  Beck's first preseason/camp was WAY different than Henne's.  Beck's first camp/preseason was much more relaxed, not as intense, players were not held accountable for their mistakes, and the starting RB was returning kickoffs. 

2. You're right, it is possible, but not likely.  Henne is much tougher mentally than Beck will ever be.  Plus, he played in a Pro Style offense in college, whereas Beck played in a West Coast offense and never faced a good defense. 

3. While McCown's value has greatly diminished, I can see the team keeping him over Beck on experience alone.  Both QB's suck and will never be starters in the NFL again, but McCown is a 6 year vet and, worst case scenario, can come off the bench and finish the game if the starter is hurt.... something I wouldn't trust Beck with at all. 

[Brian Fein]

OK, I have to disagree a little bit here. 

yeah, me too

1.  Beck's first preseason/camp was WAY different than Henne's.  Beck's first camp/preseason was much more relaxed, not as intense, players were not held accountable for their mistakes, and the starting RB was returning kickoffs. 

Translation: "I hate Cam Cameron!"
 

2. You're right, it is possible, but not likely.  Henne is much tougher mentally than Beck will ever be.  Plus, he played in a Pro Style offense in college, whereas Beck played in a West Coast offense and never faced a good defense. 

Tommy's a future teller now.  He can determine the probability of Beck's development 2 years from now!

3. While McCown's value has greatly diminished, I can see the team keeping him over Beck on experience alone.  Both QB's suck and will never be starters in the NFL again, but McCown is a 6 year vet and, worst case scenario, can come off the bench and finish the game if the starter is hurt.... something I wouldn't trust Beck with at all. 

A rebuilding team ALWAYS keeps older, more experienced, lower potential players around for "experience alone."    Experience doesn't put points on the board.

Think, Tommy, McCown offers nothing to the team.  Stop trying to bash the kid just because of your hatred of Cam Cameron!  We all know you just want to post "Another blown draft pick by Cam!  You suck Cam!"

[Sunstroke]

Zach and JT were Jimmy Johnson "we's".  Ricky and Vernon Carey are Wanny "we's".  Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder, and Will Allen are Saban "we's".  Samson Satele, Ted Ginn, and Joey Porter are Cameron "we's".  Does it really matter which coach acquired whom?
I thought I made it clear that I was not using draft placement as an argument to keep him; I was simply pointing out that if one considers a #40 pick to be easily discardable after 5 games, then one should not consider a #57 pick to be entrenched as the future.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to this:

1) Beck's first camp/preseason was not noticeably different than Henne's has been
2) It is entirely possible that Henne may fold at the helm of a sorry team, just as Beck did
3) (most importantly) Since Pennington's signing, McCown carries no value to this team

If you want to argue for cutting both McCown and Beck (and picking up someone else as backup), fine.  There's definitely an argument to be made there.  But to cut Beck and keep McCown is just absurd.  McCown brings nothing to the table; he has nothing to teach Henne that Pennington can't teach better.

I never said cut Beck and keep McCown. Cut 'em both for all I care. Neither looks like a QB we want to keep around...

I never said Beck could be cut simpy because of his draft position, or that he should be cut at all. I said he sucks as a QB...

Basically you've had a couple of good rambles on things you seem to think I said, but actually never did.

[MaineDolFan]

Zach and JT were Jimmy Johnson "we's".  Ricky and Vernon Carey are Wanny "we's".  Ronnie Brown, Channing Crowder, and Will Allen are Saban "we's".  Samson Satele, Ted Ginn, and Joey Porter are Cameron "we's".  Does it really matter which coach acquired whom?

Um, yes.  Actually it does.  Give a blind man a whiffle ball bat and toss him pitches, let him swing.  Throw him 100 and, sooner or later, he'll hit one.  Satele was that "one."  Ginn could develop into the next Joe Horn and he STILL won't be worth the draft position wasted on him.  Joey Porter was a mistake and a disgusting one at that.

When you're talking about the 40th and 57th overpick in the NFL draft - the two coaches staffs would have made significantly different choices in those situations.

Parcells never would have wasted the 40th pick on a guy that wouldn't have made Michigan's squad as a walk on (Beck).  That pick would have been used on a player that had a chance to contribute.