Mark Duper - Look at the highlights...if Duper ran patterns they were take offs and deep square in's because Marino could throw the ball on time with those type of patterns. Clayton was the possession receiver. The rap on Duper as a rookie was he couldn't get out of his stance and run certain patterns. he was a track guy. I know because I lived across the street from Biscayne College and watched the Dolphins practice everyday. Duper broke his leg in his rookie season and didn't play until Marino got to Miami.
Not arguing on Duper. I think you are 100% correct.
I'll give you a bunch of speed guys...James Jett, Renaldo Nehemiah, Wesley Walker, James Lofton, Alvin Harper, Joey Galloway, Terry Glenn and Randy Moss. You won't find those guys going over the middle and Moss has a reputation for having alligator arms if he has to run a crossing route.
Did you actually use Renaldo Nehemiah?
Those guys may have. However, that does not mean "all" speed Wr do not.
Usually it is the slower guys that go across the middle not because they are braver, but because its the only way they can play in the league.
Take a tape of Jerry Rice or Paul Warfield. They are the best in NFL History in running routes. The rap on Ginn has been route running ever since he got to Miami. Remember? That's why Cam was booed?
Yes, its been his route running. Quality route running is generally something a Wr learns after they come into the NFL. Very few college Wr come into the NFL as good route runners. Usually in college a top WR is capable of simply being physically better & not needing to work as hard on the aspects of route running.
That's dumb. Ginn gets paid to play receiver. I don't think that they put in contracts the routes that they will run or not run. Look at Steve Smith of Carolina. He's small and gets hammered. Hines Ward is smallish.
Hines Ward has to go across the middle to play in the NFL & lets point out he is about 25Lbs bigger than Ginn.
Also & something to not ignore, some guys are simply tougher than others.
190 pound running backs running between tackles? Try Warrick Dunn. I think he's in his 12 year of doing it.
So one player. This is like the two pack a day smoker who points to the one who did not die from lung cancer while ignoring the other 100K that did.
I hope that you realize that I am black and said nothing about color or genralizations in this thread. And since you mentioned it, I'll give you some white guys that were speed guys, Lance Alworth. Roger Carr (Balitmore Colts ran a 4.24), Tim Dwight.
Don't care that you are black & the fact you are should have driven the point home that generalizations are not a very smart way to go.
You were generalizing speed guys & my comment was a generalization that once went on with black men playing QB in the NFL. I think its prove that generalization was incorrect.
Alworth went across the middle, so there is your Warrick Dunn for the Wr.
I think that most people on this board know that the Dolphins have not had receivers since Gadsden and McDuffie who consistently run good patterns. They were the slowest but they always got seperation and got open. When Chambers got clunked out here in Denver, he started hearing footsteps most of the time and it did affect his play.
Not going to disagree. Miami has not had a quality Wr since McDuffie & that is not to say he was anything special. He was a great slot guy. I cannot recall the last time Miami had a top flight Wr.
As for Chambers. I'd heard footsteps after that hit.
If sportscasters that were wide receivers are talking about his route running then I don't think it's speculation.
His route running needs to improve, just like 95% of young Wrs. Ever wonder why the rule of thumb that its Yr. 3 for a Wr to break out?
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