HENNE NOW!

[Philly Fin Fan]

Yes, yes, yes- I know there are lots of QBs who have started from day one and have been successful. The only reason I brought up those particular two are because Smith was in a similar rebuilding type situation when he was thrown to the wolves, and see how that has turned out? Rodgers sat and eventually started (for different reasons), but is playing behind an established offensive line, with established players at the other offensive skill positions, and that has probably helped him be successful.

So throw Henne to the wolves behind a new offensive line group, which is still revolving (change at right guard due to injury), and he'll be playing with raw WR's.
-or-
Let him sit a season, while the O-line gels, and the WRs take their lumps and learn to run routes.

I'd rather see him sit.
I really, really like Henne, and think he may be a long term answer. But I doubt want to see him get his head knocked off because people think the Fins should be in the playoffs this season.

[TonyB0D]

Eli manning isnt good.  Palmer sat behind kitna his first year.

eli  manning isn't good?  can i have your drug dealer's number?

[Frimp]

Yes, yes, yes- I know there are lots of QBs who have started from day one and have been successful. The only reason I brought up those particular two are because Smith was in a similar rebuilding type situation when he was thrown to the wolves, and see how that has turned out? Rodgers sat and eventually started (for different reasons), but is playing behind an established offensive line, with established players at the other offensive skill positions, and that has probably helped him be successful.

So throw Henne to the wolves behind a new offensive line group, which is still revolving (change at right guard due to injury), and he'll be playing with raw WR's.
-or-
Let him sit a season, while the O-line gels, and the WRs take their lumps and learn to run routes.

I'd rather see him sit.
I really, really like Henne, and think he may be a long term answer. But I doubt want to see him get his head knocked off because people think the Fins should be in the playoffs this season.

I'm agreeing with you alot in this thread.  

[Dphins4me]

Roethlisberger, E. Manning, Palmer...  pretty good QB's. All first year players.

Hit and miss. Of course more missess, but eh, we'll see.

The one thing on Ben is Pitts. ran the ball & ran it a lot.  Ben was only ask to throw about 15-20 times a game.  They protected him.  He only had 1 games where he threw more than 25 times. If you can run the ball then you can protect a young Qb more easily.

Eli was basically considered a disappointment until last years SB run & lets remember he did not start playing until about the half way point of the year.

Palmer, you already know about.

[StL FinFan]

^ But they should be good now!!!  We don't want to wait!!!  Fire everyone!!!

I hope you all realise I was being sarcastic here.

[Tenshot13]

Don't care what your "logic is"...I mean what is "logic" anyways...Henne is  the greatest thing since sliced...no BETTER than sliced bread and he needs to start now...damn people....

(this sarcastic comment brought to you by bitter dolphin fan...if your bitter and your team sucks then please...try TDMMC...thank you)

[Brian Fein]

I knew this would happen.

Henne comes in in garbage time, down by 4 TD, and scores.  Wow.

Let's start him now so, by season's end, you can put him in the same bucket with Beck and say "he sucks we should cut him"



Henne's gonna see time, but I'd be surprised if he starts.

Today's loss wasn't cause of Pennington.  It was (a) poor game planning - too run-oriented, no balance, and (b) piss poor shitty play from one side of our secondary.

Chris Crocker and Andre Goodman should get their walking papers immediately.

[bsfins]

drafted in Dan Marino in 1983 ..The league was different,and lets remember we picked late in the round.we came off a superbowl year....We had a pretty good team around him....

Peyton Manning was drafted in 1998,Number one over all ...Had Marvin
Harrison,and Marshall Faulk to hand the ball off too...

Donavon Mcnabb - drafted 2nd overall in 1999....only started 6 games his rookie season...5 wins....Duece Staley had a pretty good year....

Eli Manning drafted #1 over all traded to the Giants...Started 7 games his rookie year, Had Tiki Barber in the backfield and Jeremy Shockey as TE...Descent Wr's..A team a few years removed from the Superbowl....

Ben Rothlisberger....Someone already mentioned...

Chad Henne- Second round pick...Hagan and Ginn are the only Wr's on the roster last year...Only 2 o-lineman on left from last year (had 2 rookies starting on the O-line....)....

Hmm see a big difference in these guy's bio...Maybe it's just me...but All those guy's were high first round picks with descent teams....

[Brian Fein]

Eli Manning played like shit his first 2 seasons.  Not until recently has he looked like a quality NFL QB.

[Tenshot13]

drafted in Dan Marino in 1983 ..The league was different,and lets remember we picked late in the round.we came off a superbowl year....We had a pretty good team around him....

yep

Peyton Manning was drafted in 1998,Number one over all ...Had Marvin
Harrison,and Marshall Faulk to hand the ball off too...

yes again but argument weakening....Harrison wasn't shit until Manning came around and Manning still had a up and down season (PLAYOFFS!?! You want to talk about PLAYOFFS!?!  PLAYOFFS?!?!  We'd be lucky to win a game!)

Code:

Donavon Mcnabb - drafted 2nd overall in 1999....only started 6 games his rookie season...5 wins....Duece Staley had a pretty good year....

eh maybe Duece had an ok season but what about the rest of the team?  IMO Donovan didn't have much to go into plus the fans hated him when he was drafted...By the way I love Donavon and Phili fan better wake up...I hear too much bad stuff about him from them

Eli Manning drafted #1 over all traded to the Giants...Started 7 games his rookie year, Had Tiki Barber in the backfield and Jeremy Shockey as TE...Descent Wr's..A team a few years removed from the Superbowl....

Yes he had Tiki but he was always overrated IMO before his last two year...a fumble machine until he adjusted his carrying style which I do believe overlapped with Eli's rookie year...Shockey had a good rookie season but was overrated after that...Eli only proved himself last year in IMO.

Ben Rothlisberger....Someone already mentioned..

No question inherited an awesome team his rookie year

Chad Henne- Second round pick...Hagan and Ginn are the only Wr's on the roster last year...Only 2 o-lineman on left from last year (had 2 rookies starting on the O-line....)....

Hmm see a big difference in these guy's bio...Maybe it's just me...but All those guy's were high first round picks with descent teams....

...and the whole point of the argument....I have a personal opinion that since Henne was a 4 year starter at a big time school he is ready to be thrown into the starting role right away...BUT...I am no idiot and can see that it might be better to sit him...the difference between him and sayyyyy BECK might be that Henne is known for his mental toughness while Beckers is known for being more intimidated than a chicken in an alligator pit....I think since Henne is already mentally tough (a big part of the reason why most rookie QBs are sat their first year) he could be ready after our bye week.

[bsfins]

yes again but argument weakening....Harrison wasn't shit until Manning came around and Manning still had a up and down season (PLAYOFFS!?! You want to talk about PLAYOFFS!?!  PLAYOFFS?!?!  We'd be lucky to win a game!)

Err maybe you need to check the stats..Marvin Harrison,may not have been the superstar...but he had 2 years with 800+ yards  8 Tds his rookie year,and 6 his second year... with Jim Harbaugh as his QB....Before Peyton got there....

Yes he had Tiki but he was always overrated IMO before his last two year...a fumble machine until he adjusted his carrying style which I do believe overlapped with Eli's rookie year...Shockey had a good rookie season but was overrated after that...Eli only proved himself last year in IMO.

Like it or Not Tiki had 2000 total yards 15 Td's and made the pro bowl Eli's rookie year..Shockey was the second on the team with 600 + yardsa and 6 Td's that year.....Also had Current Dolphins Reggie Torbor,and Will Allen on it...

As much I'd like to say,Yeah maybe...But this is the NFL,and it's adifferent ball game,no matter how you slice it....Alot of great College QB's never make it in the NFL....

[Tenshot13]

^Ya a lot of college QBs don't make it which is a shame....Ryan Leaf?  Danny Werfull?  Chris Weinke?  Ty Detmer is the biggest shame IMO....I mean the list goes on and on....and you do make a lot of good points lil B....my point is most of those guys and their surrounding cast weren't much at the time...they developed into superstars with the rookie starters....like, say, a Ginn could do...I was always a Tiki hater by the way...thought he was overratted because of all the fumbles until he changed his style....that can be debated though...

[phishphan]

Okay, the point was not that Henne is or isn't going to become Marino/Manning(s)/McNabb/Big Ben.  The question is what is best for the team long term...and no one has come to Pennington's defense in that regard.  No one should, he's 32 and has a history of arm problems.  That doesn't mean that he wouldn't be a great fit for a team that just needs someone to shepherd them to the playoffs...i.e. the Bears.

As for the fact that the Dolphins scenario isn't the EXACT same as the other QBs I mentioned, true.  Peyton walked into a 3-13 team.  Same for McNabb.  That is slightly better than 1-15.  So the comparison probably isn't fair.  You are right that the Manning Giants were slightly better (4-12).  None of these teams were great.  As for "they were in the SB just a few  years before talk" I believe the Tuna would say that you are what your record says you are.  These teams were awful (I'm leaving Marino out of this because the league has changed so much since then).  Also worth noting that none of these QBs, with the possible exception of Peyton, was very good initially.  There is a curve for evaluating young QBs.

Was it the right move to start Beck last year?  I think it was, b/c we learned that Beck is not our guy (notice no one clamoring for him now).  We drafted Henne.  How long are we going to let the steward, Pennington, run the ship before we find out if we're even sitting the right guy on the bench to learn?  I'm not saying Week 3, but it might be time to admit we need a good evaluation of him this year.

[Dphins4me]

Was it the right move to start Beck last year?  I think it was, b/c we learned that Beck is not our guy (notice no one clamoring for him now).

What we learned was he was not prepared to start as a rookie without the help of the players beside him.

 We drafted Henne.  How long are we going to let the steward, Pennington, run the ship before we find out if we're even sitting the right guy on the bench to learn?  I'm not saying Week 3, but it might be time to admit we need a good evaluation of him this year.

You do not find out what a Qb has his rookie year.  You just don't.  Majority of Miami fans think because Marino did it that all Qbs can.  It just isn't so.

[phishphan]

Majority of Miami fans think because Marino did it that all Qbs can.  It just isn't so.

I don't think that b/c Marino did it that all QBs can.  We've seen 13 guys try and fail since Marino, so I'd have to be dumb to believe that Marino was the norm.  He was truly exceptional, but that's not the point.  The point was that we have to find out what we have.  We are re-building, which I think means finding out what we have at various positions.  Let Henne become a leader for Ginn, Wilford, Brown, the young O-line, etc. so that he's not the only unproven guy in 2-3 years when we're good enough for him to play (and take his growing pains then).  I don't think that Henne would be a guaranteed success this season or next, but I do think that the fact that we can cite both QBs that have been thrown into the fire immediately AND some that sat on the bench and waited their turn as guys who succeeded and failed than we know that there is no surefire method for success.  The only way to know what you have is to play them and see them in competitive meaningful games. 

Also, people act like because he was a second round pick and not a first that he's not a big investment.  Ask GM's in the league how highly a 2nd round pick is regarded.  Look at what people get in return when they trade 2nd rounders.  Look at what people get when they trade late round picks.  Moss went for a 4th rounder.  Marino was a couple of picks away from being a second rounder.  Second round picks are high value picks, so it is worth finding out what they are.  We are playing (or did play) Long, Merling, Ginn, Allen, Brown, and Roth.  They are all 1st and 2nd rounders.  The whole point is here that since we're willing to re-build at all these positions, we should not be so reticent to do it at QB.