Ted Ginn

[Brian Fein]

Kirby, you made two critical mistakes in your post...

... a susposed franchise WR.

No one ever said Ted Ginn was a "franchise WR" - that's preposterous.  Expectations too high much?

This guy was susposed to change the offensive culture of the franchise.

Nope, Cam Cameron was supposed to change the offensive culture.  Last I checked, he's not here anymore.

[Kirbyjr]

Kirby, you made two critical mistakes in your post...
No one ever said Ted Ginn was a "franchise WR" - that's preposterous.  Expectations too high much?
Nope, Cam Cameron was supposed to change the offensive culture.  Last I checked, he's not here anymore.

How is this preposterous??   This guy was taken with the ninth pick in the first round, for what to be a situational WR and return kicks?  It just seems to me that someone the Dolphins thought so highly of to use such a high pick, warrants the title, "Franchise WR."  I mean, isn't it just assumed that when we took Jake Long with the first pick, he was going to be our franchise tackle?

[Spider-Dan]

There is a whale of a difference between #1 and #9.

But more importantly, how often do you think the first WR selected in a draft turns out to be a "franchise player"?  I mean, look at the first WRs to be selected over the last 10 years (Ginn was the second in 07, after Calvin Johnson):

99- Torry Holt (6)
00- Peter Warrick (4)
01- David Terrell (8)
02- Donte Stallworth (13)
03- Charles Rogers (2)
04- Larry Fitzgerald (3)
05- Braylon Edwards (3)
06- Santonio Holmes (25)
07- Calvin Johnson (2)
08- [no WR taken in first round]

Most of those players were drafted significantly higher than Ginn.  Of those ten drafts, only two of those players are bona fide franchise WRs (Holt and Fitzgerald; jury still out on Calvin Johnson).  The rest are comparable to Ginn or worse.

Furthermore, if you look at most other franchise WRs like Harrison, Moss, Owens, Ward, Ocho Cinco, and Steve Smith, none of them were taken with top 10 picks.

Generally speaking, most highly rated WRs are outright busts.  Expecting Ginn to be a Pro Bowler because he was drafted ninth is fairly unreasonable.

[Sunstroke]

jury still out on Calvin Johnson...

The only way the jury is still out on Calvin is if you haven't watched Calvin this year...I'd put him right there with Fitz as far as top young franchise WRs go.

[Brian Fein]

I think you're trying to assign the word "franchise" to a guy at every position.  How many teams have a franchise nose tackle?  or a franchise punter?  Realistically, each team MAYBE only has one or two franchise PLAYERS, and a first round draft pick is not what earns you that title.

[Spider-Dan]

Calvin Johnson hasn't even been in the league for two years yet.  Unless he was so incredibly awesome that he's already made the Pro Bowl (he hasn't), it's too early to judge.

Is he the best young WR in the league?  Sure.  But he's not established himself at the top level yet, from a consistency standpoint, and he hasn't made a Pro Bowl yet.

[Rick]

Calvin Johnson hasn't even been in the league for two years yet.  Unless he was so incredibly awesome that he's already made the Pro Bowl (he hasn't), it's too early to judge.

Is he the best young WR in the league?  Sure.  But he's not established himself at the top level yet, from a consistency standpoint, and he hasn't made a Pro Bowl yet.

Calvin Johnson has 65 catches for 1165 yards 17.9 avg 10 TD playing for the worst team in football... he has also played with 5 different QBs this season putting up these numbers...  Johnson HAS already established himself as a top level WR despite playing for the WINLESS Lions.



 

[dolfan13]

can we trade ginn for c johnson 

note: i jokingly meant calvin johnson and no please not ocho stinko johnson

[Rick]

Generally speaking, most highly rated WRs are outright busts.  Expecting Ginn to be a Pro Bowler because he was drafted ninth is fairly unreasonable.

Expecting Ginn to CATCH the ball and to be able to run more than just ONE route is NOT unreasonable.

[run_to_win]

For what it's worth, I remember Nat Moore "disappearing" while David Woodley was the QB and then looking awesome when Marino took over.   

[Spider-Dan]

Johnson HAS already established himself as a top level WR despite playing for the WINLESS Lions.

So you're saying that he's the best WR not to make the Pro Bowl?

One good season does not a franchise WR make.

[Tenshot13]

So you're saying that he's the best WR not to make the Pro Bowl?

One good season does not a franchise WR make.

and one "slightly above average" season does not make a bad RB (I'm talking to you Tepop).

sorry for the hijack

[Sunstroke]

So you're saying that he's the best WR not to make the Pro Bowl?

One good season does not a franchise WR make.

Talent..."does" a franchise WR make.

Calvin is as much a "franchise" WR as any WR in the league right now. You could take Calvin, put him in ANY other WR's spot for that team, and that position either improves or stays the same... There isn't a single example where I think you drop in Calvin and drop in talent. I'm including Fitz, Moss, Smith, Boldin, Owens...all of 'em. He plays for the worst team in the game, sees double coverage on damned near every play, has a no-talent hack with a hockey name throwing the ball, and he STILL is having a monster season in his first full season as the starter.  He's 6'5" and runs a 4.3. He's strong enough to beat DBs into a pulp, fast enough to embarrass them deep, and hands that can snatch a feather out of the air in rush hour traffic.

NFL awards a new NFL franchise to me and the city of Boca Raton tomorrow, and tells me that I can select 1 player from any other team to play for me...but it has to be a wide receiver.  Calvin is the WR I am taking, and I am not hesitating in the call.

[Spider-Dan]

And you have no idea about his durability, nor whether he will turn into another psycho like Moss/Owens/Ocho Cinco.

I am not willing to label a WR that has yet to make a Pro Bowl a "franchise player" during his second season.  Sorry.

[Sunstroke]

And you have no idea about his durability, nor whether he will turn into another psycho like Moss/Owens/Ocho Cinco.

His lack of psycho headcase status is actually a plus for Calvin, though it certainly didn't impede Moss or Owens from becoming elite WRs. As far as durability goes...if Fitz goes down tomorrow, is he still a franchise WR? How about Moss? Any talk about future player performance assumes that all will enjoy an equal amount of health. Injured players aren't franchise anythings... Talent-wise, you can't produce an argument against Calvin.

I am not willing to label a WR that has yet to make a Pro Bowl a "franchise player" during his second season.  Sorry. 

No problem...I recognize what he is clearly enough for both of us.