Terrorism under Clinton/GWB/Obama

[Spider-Dan]

Split off from the other thread, as it's off-topic there anyway.  Please try to avoid the name-calling.

List of terrorist attacks under Clinton's watch.
Oct. 12, 2000 - A terrorist bomb damages the destroyer USS Cole in the port of Aden, Yemen, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39.

Aug. 7, 1998 - Terrorist bombs destroy the U.S. embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. In Nairobi, 12 Americans are among the 291 killed, and over 5,000 are wounded, including 6 Americans. In Dar es Salaam, one U.S. citizen is wounded among the 10 killed and 77 injured.

June 21, 1998 - Rocket-propelled grenades explode near the U.S. embassy in Beirut.

July 27, 1996 - A pipe bomb explodes during the Olympic games in Atlanta, killing one person and wounding 111.

June 25, 1996 - A bomb aboard a fuel truck explodes outside a U.S. air force installation in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. 19 U.S. military personnel are killed in the Khubar Towers housing facility, and 515 are wounded, including 240 Americans.


Nov. 13, 1995 - A car-bomb in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven people, five of them American military and civilian advisers for National Guard training. The "Tigers of the Gulf," "Islamist Movement for Change," and "Fighting Advocates of God" claim responsibility.


April 19, 1995 - A car bomb destroys the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people and wounding over 600. guess you dont have to be foreign to be a terrorist.

February 1993 - A bomb in a van explodes in the underground parking garage in New York's World Trade Center, killing six people and wounding 1,042.

and how did our hero , clinton handle it? by getting blown in the oval office. yep! that scared the shit out of those terrorists , boy!

I find this list rather interesting.  You have cited 8 items:

 - 1 of them took place less than two months after Clinton entered office, yet somehow Clinton is Fully Responsible for this bombing while GWB bears no responsibility for an attack over SEVEN months after he entered office

 - 2 of them are perpetrated by non-Islamic terrorists

 - 5 of them occurred in foreign nations

If this is the standard you want to use, fine with me.  But your argument falls to pieces:

 - Since '93 WTC "counts" against Clinton, 9/11 counts against GWB, making him responsible for the single largest terrorist attack on U.S. soil ever

 - Since non-Islamic terrorists count too, here's a quick list of terrorist attacks under Bush (spoiler: it's not zero)

2001 5/21 Center for Urban Horticulture destroyed. ELF members plead guilty.
2001 Tacoma, Washington abortion clinic bombing
2001 - 9/11 attacks on NYC, Pentagon
2001 Richard Reid shoe bombing (failed, like the Underwear bomber)
2001-2002 Anthrax attacks
2002 Attack at LAX against El Al ticket counter
2002 Beltway Snipers
2005 Hughes & Dunahoe firebomb abortion clinic
2005 Abortion clinic in Palm Beach burned
2006 SUV attack at UNC
2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting, Egyptian shoots six
2006 McMenemy abortion clinic arson attempt. Not an actual clinic, he was mistaken.
2007 IEDs tossed at Mexican Consulate in NYC.
2007 Altman & Baca arrested for the abortion clinic arson
2007 Planned Parenthood arson in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
2007 IED attacked attempted at women's health clinic in Austin

These are the attacks in the United States..

 - Since attacks on foreign soil count, every single American that has died in Iraq since Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" in May of 2003 goes on Bush's record (officially: 4,089 American citizens)

Sorry, but using your own metrics, Bush is the worst anti-terror president we've ever had.  And it's not even close.

[bsmooth]

Too bad the other thread got locked after the f bomb as I wanted him to try and show how Obama passed more items that has made his first year in office worse than the eight years under Bush.
It would be even better if he could stay on topic and not throw in references to Clinton and Carter as that was not the original premise.

[dolphantom]

 - 1 of them took place less than two months after Clinton entered office, yet somehow Clinton is Fully Responsible for this bombing while GWB bears no responsibility for an attack over SEVEN months after he entered office

 --  clinton was not responsible for the attack . he was responsible for not doing anything about it. sweeping it under the rug[/u

 - 2 of them are perpetrated by non-Islamic terrorists

since when does a terorist have to islamic?

 - 5 of them occurred in foreign nations

does this mean it doesnt count? agian... if it was perpetrated against the u.s. are our countrymen across the sea any less american than you and me?

If this is the standard you want to use, fine with me.  But your argument falls to pieces:

 - Since '93 WTC "counts" against Clinton, 9/11 counts against GWB, making him responsible for the single largest terrorist attack on U.S. soil ever

yeah , i forgot . bush was the cause for cancer too. do you  really think it took only seven months to plan this attack? fact is, clinton was thinking more about being cool, and getting blown than about the warning signs.he was a sub-par president(one of the worst in history) that rode the success of the republican wave started by reagan.
do you think the terrorists said to themselves, " hey , lets plan a multiple city air attack , and learn to fly in 7 months"? if you really think it was, then you better take off the clinton blinders, and i have a bridge for sale. interested?

 - Since non-Islamic terrorists count too, here's a quick list of terrorist attacks under Bush (spoiler: it's not zero)

2001 5/21 Center for Urban Horticulture destroyed. ELF members plead guilty.
2001 Tacoma, Washington abortion clinic bombing
2001 - 9/11 attacks on NYC, Pentagon
2001 Richard Reid shoe bombing (failed, like the Underwear bomber)
2001-2002 Anthrax attacks
2002 Attack at LAX against El Al ticket counter
2002 Beltway Snipers
2005 Hughes & Dunahoe firebomb abortion clinic
2005 Abortion clinic in Palm Beach burned
2006 SUV attack at UNC
2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting, Egyptian shoots six
2006 McMenemy abortion clinic arson attempt. Not an actual clinic, he was mistaken.
2007 IEDs tossed at Mexican Consulate in NYC.
2007 Altman & Baca arrested for the abortion clinic arson
2007 Planned Parenthood arson in Virginia Beach, Virginia.
2007 IED attacked attempted at women's health clinic in Austin

all i have to say about this is........are you kidding me?? abortion clinics ,and beltway snipers? grasping at straws are we? why dont you go and list the assasination of tupac shakur while youre at it?

this could go back and forth all year.

[Spider-Dan]

[re: '93 WTC]
clinton was not responsible for the attack . he was responsible for not doing anything about it. sweeping it under the rug

That's an interesting definition of "not doing anything about it," seeing as how Ramzi Yousef is rotting in a Supermax prison while Osama Bin Laden is still at large...  particularly since GWB actually said that he was "no longer concerned" about Osama Bin Laden.  That sure sounds like "sweeping it under the rug" to me.

since when does a terorist have to islamic?

Yet you're the one claiming that abortion clinic bombings don't count!

agian...perpetrated against the u.s. are our countrymen across the sea any less american than you and me

1) There is a HUGE difference between attacks that happen in other countries (where our gov't has no jurisdiction) and attacks that happen here.  Pretending otherwise is asinine.
2) Why do you ignore all of our countrymen that have been killed by terrorists in Iraq?  According to you, the 4,000+ deaths there don't even count as terrorist acts.

do you think it took only seen months to plan this attack?

Who cares?  Clinton may or may not have been able to stop them from planning an attack (Thought Police?), but Bush definitely could have stopped them from executing it.

all i have to say about this is........are you kidding me?? abortion clinics ,and beltway snipers? grasping at straws are we? why dont you go and list the assasination of tupac shakur while youre at it?

You're citing attacks that took place in countries where the U.S. has no jurisdiction... and you're accusing me of grasping at straws?  High comedy.

[JVides]

Anyone who blames a president for not stopping something that isn't within his purview (CIA, FBI, DIA, and ATF, anyone?) is insane.  Just as I don't blame presidents for economic downturns (a president's, and moreso Congress's, effect is limited to mostly tax policy and the appointment of the Chairman of the Fed, among other small factors), I don't blame presidents for not taking up a badge and taking down the baddies.

My only issue with Clinton (and he mentioned regrets about it in an interview once, I think) was not going after Bin Laden once when intel suggested he was in Sudan (I think it was Sudan).  He was already on the "kill him" list so, obviously, it would've been nice if he'd been offed then.    

[dolphantom]

Too bad the other thread got locked after the f bomb as I wanted him to try and show how Obama passed more items that has made his first year in office worse than the eight years under Bush.
It would be even better if he could stay on topic and not throw in references to Clinton and Carter as that was not the original premise.

the other thread is not locked. and to tell you the truth, i dont even remember what the original premise was.   it was interesting though. 

[JVides]

2) Why do you ignore all of our countrymen that have been killed by terrorists in Iraq?  According to you, the 4,000+ deaths there don't even count as terrorist acts.

I'd call those acts of warfare, for the most part.  Suicide bombings in crowded places = terrorism.  Gunned down by a combatant with an AK-47 = warfare.  Thin, blurry line... I know.

Who cares?  Clinton may or may not have been able to stop them from planning an attack (Thought Police?), but Bush definitely could have stopped them from executing it.

Both of these statements are right and wrong.  "Clinton" and "Bush", by which I mean policies put in place during their presidencies, could have led to flight schools having to divulge names of students for profiling purposes (GASP!  What would the ACLU have said?); or better sharing of reported suspicious activity (like reports of eventual highjackers taking flight lessons / using simulators for the purpose of learning how to fly planes and not, you know, land them) could have led to pre-attack arrests.  But nobody would have gone for these policies, as they would have been seen as violations of privacy.  It took September 11th for people to realize that, in some cases, security comes at the price of privacy.

[dolphantom]

That's an interesting definition of "not doing anything about it," seeing as how Ramzi Yousef is rotting in a Supermax prison while Osama Bin Laden is still at large...  particularly since GWB actually said that he was "no longer concerned" about Osama Bin Laden.  That sure sounds like "sweeping it under the rug" to me.
Yet you're the one claiming that abortion clinic bombings don't count!
1) There is a HUGE difference between attacks that happen in other countries (where our gov't has no jurisdiction) and attacks that happen here.  Pretending otherwise is asinine.
2) Why do you ignore all of our countrymen that have been killed by terrorists in Iraq?  According to you, the 4,000+ deaths there don't even count as terrorist acts.
Who cares?  Clinton may or may not have been able to stop them from planning an attack (Thought Police?), but Bush definitely could have stopped them from executing it.
You're citing attacks that took place in countries where the U.S. has no jurisdiction... and you're accusing me of grasping at straws?  High comedy.

the comedy is your inability to see things for what they really are.

how about that bridge? interested?

[dolphantom]

My only issue with Clinton (and he mentioned regrets about it in an interview once, I think) was not going after Bin Laden once when intel suggested he was in Sudan (I think it was Sudan).  He was already on the "kill him" list so, obviously, it would've been nice if he'd been offed then.    

in a nutshell.....rest my case.therefore eliminating  the whole 9/11 debate. thank you.

[Spider-Dan]

the comedy is your inability to see things for what they really are.

how about that bridge? interested?

What a trenchant and insightful rebuttal you have composed.  Well played, sir.

in a nutshell.....rest my case.therefore eliminating  the whole 9/11 debate. thank you.

So if I understand you correctly, Clinton is to be held accountable for not killing Bin Laden before anyone knew 9/11 would happen, but GWB gets a pass for actively letting Bin Laden escape (and I quote: "I truly am not that concerned about him") after 9/11 had been perpetrated?

Some consistency, please.

[MaineDolFan]

why dont you go and list the assasination of tupac shakur while youre at it

Tupcac and Biggie's deaths are the reason why we invaded Iraq.

Biggie Biggie Biggie, can't you see...GWB dropped a bomb on me...

Couldn't resist.  Sorry.

[Spider-Dan]

I'd call those acts of warfare, for the most part.  Suicide bombings in crowded places = terrorism.  Gunned down by a combatant with an AK-47 = warfare.

Ask dolphantom if the Fort Hood attack is terrorism.  I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you that you're wrong (at least, when a Democrat is president).

But honestly, I don't see it as ambiguous.  I specifically did not include people who died in combat against the Iraqi military.  However, those actions had ceased by the time Bush declared Mission Accomplished.  So every single American that has died in Iraq since then was not killed by an opposing nation's military, but by rogue radicals trying to frighten and demoralize us.  This is the definition of terrorism.

[Sunstroke]

What a trenchant and insightful rebuttal you have composed.  Well played, sir.

<Wonders what percentage of this thread's readers needed to look up "trenchant" in order to truly appreciate the sophisticated beauty of that elegant bitchslap.>

[dolphantom]

Tupcac and Biggie's deaths are the reason why we invaded Iraq.

Biggie Biggie Biggie, can't you see...GWB dropped a bomb on me...

Couldn't resist.  Sorry.

    i was waitin for that. ha!

[dolphantom]

<Wonders what percentage of this thread's readers needed to look up "trenchant" in order to truly appreciate the sophisticated beauty of that elegant bitchslap.>

yeah , including the author of the post. dont hurt yourself there spider.