Is Thomas Hall of Fame bound?

[Pappy13]

Tell me how Zack meets one of the questions I asked. 

I believe that Zach Thomas has more tackles than anyone in the Hall of Fame and is 4th ALL-TIME.  He was also DROY in '96.  That's at least as good as what you answered for Derrick Thomas and better than Harry Carson in my opinion.  The Giants may have had a great defense in '87 but that was more because of a guy named Lawrence Taylor than anything that Harry Carson did.  Carson had 1 sack and 0 INT's in '87 the year they won the SB.  His time had passed by the time they won a SB.

I completely agree with you that getting in the hall is not a simple formula where you pick a single criteria and measure it, so why are you trying to make it so?  Getting in the hall is simply a matter of getting the voters to give you more votes than the other candidates.  That's it.  To say that Zach has no shot is short sided.  To say that he has a good shot is also short sided.  I give him about a 50-50 shot, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Tepop84]

Wow that is quite impressive since tackles weren't recorded officially until after 2001.

[Pappy13]

Wow that is quite impressive since tackles weren't recorded officially until after 2001.

Weren't recorded officially by the NFL until after 2001.  Prior to that the stat was kept by the teams themselves.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Simeon Rice was the DROY '96 not Zack.

According to the DC of the Giants Carson was the best linebacker he ever coached...thus better than LT.  I will take his opinion over yours.

Stop trying to only take a portion of the accomplishments of those already in the hall and claim Zach is equal. 

You can get in solely on individual merit (Dan Marino).  You can get in as being a leader on a historic team w/o being the absolute best at your position (Joe Namath).  But you can't get in on being pretty good on a team that doesn't nothing.  It the Jets don't win SB3, Namath isn't in the hall.  Carson doesn't get in w/o a ring. 

Zach neither has the individual achievement of Marino nor the being a part of something great that Carson had. 

[Pappy13]

Simeon Rice was the DROY '96 not Zack.

Sorry, he was the AFC DROY in '96 according to Wikipedia which of course could be inaccurate.

I didn't know that you made up the procedure as to who gets into the HOF.  I guess you're right, I guess he's not gettin' in.  What's up with this whole selection criteria thing that gets talked about every year?

[Tepop84]

I didn't know that you made up the procedure as to who gets into the HOF.  I guess you're right, I guess he's not gettin' in.  What's up with this whole selection criteria thing that gets talked about every year?

That's it, you take your ball and you go home.

[tits muldoon]

of course he is!!!  Is he worthy ? thats up too debate. Lots of better players not in. Lots of lesser men are in.  What a great few years that d. had. Can we put Darrell Gardner in? FOR a couple years he was the best dolphin lineman ever!!

[Pappy13]

That's it, you take your ball and you go home.

Damn, you beat me to it. LOL

[Spider-Dan]

^^^ Pappy you picked one question I asked and only one question I asked.  Getting in the Hall is not a simple formula where we pick a single criteria and measure it. 

Joe Namath was hardly the best QB of this era.  However, he scores big on some of the other questions. 

Derrick Thomas is the only player in NFL history to record 7 sacks in single game.   He also was DROY. 

Harry Carson was the the team captain for a team that won the superbowl.  A team that was known for having a great defense. 

So don't tell me that there are other players that don't meet one of the questions I asked.  Tell me how Zack meets one of the questions I asked.

The point is that your selection criteria are invalid, because there are already existing HOF members that do not meet them.  I mean, seriously... Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game, so therefore he deserves to be in?  When did this become the Hall of Random Single-Game Records?  Drew Bledsoe has the record for the most completions in a game... should we start working on his bust?

If I take your selection criteria at face value, there are plenty of players who actually did make it into the HOF that would be evaluated as a "no."  Let's look at them again:

What records has [blank] broken?
What championships has [blank] been apart of?
What history has [blank] made?
Twenty years from now, what about [blank] would make a fan of 31 teams want to pause and read up the history of [blank] while walking through a museum in Canton, Ohio?

Now fill in the blank with:

John Randle
Randall McDaniel
Andre Tippett
James Lofton

And those are just players from the last ten years of inductees.  You mean to tell me that those 4 guys deserve to be in but Zach Thomas clearly does not?  Please do explain.

[Sunstroke]

The point is that your selection criteria are invalid, because there are already existing HOF members that do not meet them.  I mean, seriously... Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game, so therefore he deserves to be in? 

Alright, let's leave that sort of non-logic to the political threads... You're inferring in that sentence that the 7 sack game is the only reason he's in, rather than the career sack number (126) that puts him only 6 behind the greatest linebacker to ever play the game, Lawrence Taylor. The 9 Pro Bowls and 2 first team all-pro awards probably helped. Seeing as how he died of a fluke blood clot while still active as a player, it'd be pretty easy to argue that he would have ended up top-5 all-time in sacks had he lived a few more years.

He had a Hall of Fame "career," which is why he ended up in the Hall of Fame.

[Pappy13]

Seeing as how he died of a fluke blood clot while still active as a player, it'd be pretty easy to argue that he would have ended up top-5 all-time in sacks had he lived a few more years.

He had a Hall of Fame "career," which is why he ended up in the Hall of Fame.

I agree with your second statement, I too thought he deserved into the Hall based on what he had done during his career, however I have a problem with trying to project stats for a player.  Let's not forget that Zach's career was cut short by injuries as well, he lost the last 2 years because of concussions.  Had it not been for those he'd still be playing and racking up tackles as well and could very well have been the leading tackler of all time, but that's not really the issue.  Several players in the Hall had their careers ended early for one reason or another and that should not preclude them from the Hall.  The issue should simply be did he have a hall of fame type career while he was playing?  There's no criteria to look at that for that.  It's not how many Super Bowls he played in.  It's not how good are his stats.  It's not what kind of player he was, it's just simply a judgement call by the voters.

[Tepop84]

I agree with your second statement, I too thought he deserved into the Hall based on what he had done during his career, however I have a problem with trying to project stats for a player.  Let's not forget that Zach's career was cut short by injuries as well, he lost the last 2 years because of concussions.  Had it not been for those he'd still be playing and racking up tackles as well and could very well have been the leading tackler of all time, but that's not really the issue.  Several players in the Hall had their careers ended early for one reason or another and that should not preclude them from the Hall.  The issue should simply be did he have a hall of fame type career while he was playing?  There's no criteria to look at that for that.  It's not how many Super Bowls he played in.  It's not how good are his stats.  It's not what kind of player he was, it's just simply a judgement call by the voters.

tackles weren't official until after 2001.  and zach thomas has like 250 less solo tackles than ray lewis.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The point is that your selection criteria are invalid, because there are already existing HOF members that do not meet them.  I mean, seriously... Derrick Thomas had 7 sacks in one game, so therefore he deserves to be in?  When did this become the Hall of Random Single-Game Records?  Drew Bledsoe has the record for the most completions in a game... should we start working on his bust?

Once again the same slicing bullshit.  He didn't get in on one thing.  But along with having a better overall career than Zack Thomas, he is in the record books.   


John Randle -- 137.5 career sacks is the most by a defensive tackle in NFL history.  He was named All Tackle Machine of 1999 by Tackle The Magazine.   Made the all decade team.

Randall McDaniel – Set NFL record by starting in 12 consecutive Pro Bowls (1989-2000).

Andre Tippett NFL’s 1980s all-decade team, highest two-season sack total by a linebacker in NFL history, In January, 2008, he was voted by a panel of former NFL players and coaches to Pro Football Weekly's All-Time 3-4 defensive team.

James Lofton - first NFL player to record 14,000 yards receiving,

I am done discussing players already inducted.  I am not going thru the entire list of players enshrined and explain to you how they made history.   And the above is not a total list of each players accomplishments. But every single one of them has done something to earn a place in history.   

Thomas didn’t make an all decade team, he hasn’t broken any records, he wasn’t a part of any championships.  He hasn’t been named to any all decade, or all time lists.  So what has Zach Thomas done to earn a place in history?  The list of non indcuted playes who have made as many pro-powls as him is pretty dam long. 

Post some reasons why Thomas should be in.  And listing another player is not a reason for his induction. 

What fucking history has Thomas made?

[Spider-Dan]

Alright, let's leave that sort of non-logic to the political threads... You're inferring in that sentence that the 7 sack game is the only reason he's in, rather than the career sack number (126) that puts him only 6 behind the greatest linebacker to ever play the game, Lawrence Taylor.

I'm probably not inferring his total sack count as a reason because, you know, that wasn't what he mentioned.  I also find his relationship to LT's sack total to be mightily irrelevant; Chris Doleman has almost 20 more sacks than LT, so what does that mean for him?

The 9 Pro Bowls and 2 first team all-pro awards probably helped.

Unlike Zach's 7 Pro Bowls and 5 first-team All-Pros, I suppose.  But hey, who wouldn't take 2 Pro Bowls over 3 first-team All-Pros?

Seeing as how he died of a fluke blood clot while still active as a player, it'd be pretty easy to argue that he would have ended up top-5 all-time in sacks had he lived a few more years.

Are we now citing what players could have done as evidence for their Hall of Fame inductions?  Because if so, my argument quickly changes to "The Man With The Most Tackles In The History Of The NFL."

[Tepop84]

I'm probably not inferring his total sack count as a reason because, you know, that wasn't what he mentioned.  I also find his relationship to LT's sack total to be mightily irrelevant; Chris Doleman has almost 20 more sacks than LT, so what does that mean for him?
Unlike Zach's 7 Pro Bowls and 5 first-team All-Pros, I suppose.  But hey, who wouldn't take 2 Pro Bowls over 3 first-team All-Pros?
Are we now citing what players could have done as evidence for their Hall of Fame inductions?  Because if so, my argument quickly changes to "The Man With The Most Tackles In The History Of The NFL since 2001"

I fixed your post, but even that isn't true.  Do you homers just not understand anything. Zach was great at getting assisted tackles.  Ray lewis has 250 more solo tackles than he does. He wouldn't even be close to being the leader since ray lewis is so much better than he is.


Also, Zach was named best MLB in his conference 1 time. That is a HOFer right there.