QB - Who should start?

[Tepop84]

Tepop-

Three people have quoted my responses and offered agreement.  You have not addressed any of what I have raised....

1) Do you honestly believe the Pennington has a chance at starting all 16 games this season?  If not, who do you think ought take over the reigns when he lands on IR?  Henne

2) Who do you see as the long term solution at QB?  There is no long term solution on the team


3) If Pennington is not going to be a long term solution, would it make sense to have a player that will be (Henne,Thigpen, or White) gain experience? 
The can gain experience on the bench and practice.  Cases can be made for both throwing players to the lions and having them sit.

[Tepop84]

Wasn't the same team, though, as you well know. You keep insisting on comparing apples to oranges and repeating 2008 to 2009 comparisons is not going to make it any more palatable. The team just didn't play well in 2009. It didn't before Pennington got hurt, it didn't after. Simple as that.

There wasn't that much turnover for comparing qbs.  Pretty much same receiving core.  The team wasn't as good because the QB wasn't as good.

[Brian Fein]

There wasn't that much turnover for comparing qbs.  Pretty much same receiving core.  The team wasn't as good because the QB wasn't as good.

Dude, in 2008 they ran the wildcat like nobody's business.  This was a huge part of the offense.  In 2009, after the Bucs game, the wildcat was almost non-existant. 

You CAN NOT compare the two.

[David Fulcher]

Ah. Gotcha.  Brainfart there.

Edit:  Hold the phone.  The Jets wouldn't be 7-7 then would they?  Shouldn't that be 9-5?

Pappy, I was gonna post about this the other night actually but was busy and didn't have a chance to, and you beat me to it.  I don't know if Tepop did it intentionally or not, but the Jets definitely went 9-7 last season (by the skin of their damn teeth,  ), and, seeing as we swept the bastards, that would make them 9-5 in the 14 games that they didn't play against us.

As for Henne, I saw a stat on him in Athlon Sports Pro Football 2010 Preview that I found interesting and definitely puts a positive light on him, but I haven't posted it yet since I think fyo's stats posted did a pretty good job as a rebuttal to Tepop's posted stats, even if he does want to insist that the 2008 and 2009 seasons and squads are still comparable.  I may still post it later, though.

Even though I will agree that Henne is not yet a solid NFL starting QB, I don't know how you can't at least acknowledge or recognize that the guy has (positive) potential, especially considering that it was his 2ND NFL season last year and essentially his first one to see playing time besides a blowout game the 2nd game of his rookie season.  It was his first 13 games started in his career, and I don't think he did a bad job at all besides a few boneheaded mistakes...oh, yeah, that's right, it WAS his first season to start, right?  Sorry, but after starting those 13 games last season, sitting on the bench ain't gonna help his development.

[Tepop84]

Dude, in 2008 they ran the wildcat like nobody's business.  This was a huge part of the offense.  In 2009, after the Bucs game, the wildcat was almost non-existant. 

You CAN NOT compare the two.

And that has what to do with a qbs dvoa?

[Brian Fein]

And that has what to do with a qbs dvoa?

It has to do EVERYTHING with the game plan and type of offense the team runs.  Short dink-and-dunk.  Ball control.  Power running. 

Come on, dude, I'm sure you know this.  Drop the "I hate Chad Henne" persona for a second and be objective.

[Tepop84]

It has to do EVERYTHING with the game plan and type of offense the team runs.  Short dink-and-dunk.  Ball control.  Power running. 

Come on, dude, I'm sure you know this.  Drop the "I hate Chad Henne" persona for a second and be objective.

Besides the fact that I already posted that Henne isn't as good at connecting on the long ball than Pennington, The dolphins averaged 4.4 ypc in 2009, and 4.2 in 2008.  Another genius argument.

[Brian Fein]

Henne isn't as good at connecting on the long ball than Pennington

There's no reasoning with you.  There's no way you are serious about this.  Chad Pennington himself would tell you that he can't throw the long ball.

And, not to nit-pick, but if you're going to call people "genius" get your facts straight.  The numbers you quoted are rushing yards per attempt. 

Genius!

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Tepop,

Did you watch any of the games or just check the box score?

In case you didn't watch the games and only read the box scores let me provide you with some background.

The 2008 Dolphin offense was effective for one reason and one reason alone.  And it was NOT Pennington.  It was the wildcat. 

Week three of 2008 an 0-2 team that the prior season was one overtime game away from tying the 76 Bucs upset a 2-0 team that was less than 5 mins away from going 19-0 the prior season. 

And how did they accomplish this unbelievable upset?  Was it by the outstanding play of the QB?  No.  It was because the Dolphins O.C. outcoached the HC of the New England Patriots despite a huge talent deficient that that the Dolphins had in players.  How amazing is this?  Well, let’s just say that the coach that was out coached is widely considered one of the most brilliant defensive minds of all time.  In fact his defensive game plan from the New York Giants' 20-19 upset of the Buffalo Bills in Super Bowl XXV is enshrined in Canton.

So guess what happened after that?  Folks took notice that a play called the wildcat that had confused one of the greatest defensive minds of all time.  So DCs and HC that played the Dolphins focused most of their time on game planning to stop the wildcat.  As there is only a finite amount of time that can be spent on game planning very little time was spend focusing on how to blitz the QB or stop the long pass.  Also defensive assignments were based on stopping the wildcat, safeties didn’t play as deep, not as many players rushed the passer as one need to watch for the wildcat etc. This resulted in Pennington having an easier time throwing the ball down field. 

By the beginning of the 2009 season, the wildcat was pretty well understood and game planning to contain it was pretty well understood.  DCs and HCs went back to focusing on blitzing the QB and shutting down the passing game.  This made it much harder for Dolphin QBs to pass in 2009 than it was for them in 2008.



.

[Sunstroke]

Give him a break...QB rushing yardage is very important to Tepop.  

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Give him a break...QB rushing yardage is very important to Tepop.  

Ronnie Brown should be the QB then. 

[Tepop84]

The 2008 Dolphin offense was effective for one reason and one reason alone.  And it was NOT Pennington.  It was the wildcat. 



.

Right...  The wildcats 5 plays a game caused the dolphins to win 11 games.  The wildcat wasn't even the reason that the dolphins beat the pats the first time. Pennington was 17/20 for 226 yards.

[Pappy13]

^^ I'm gonna have to side with Tepop on this one point, Pennington did have a terrific year in 2008, the wildcat wasn't the only reason the Dolphins won, Penny had a lot to do with it.

My problem with Penny is that 2008 was quite possibly the best year of his career and much of his success came against average to weak defenses when the Dolphins weren't relying on Penny to win the game, just not make mistakes.  He was great at it, but it didn't look like he was going to repeat that kind of success in 2009 and I really see no reason to believe he could do it this year either.  Henne is the future, I'll take my chances with Henne.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The wildcat wasn't even the reason that the dolphins beat the pats the first time. Pennington was 17/20 for 226 yards.

TDs score by Pennington: 0.
Rush-yards-TDs 36-216-4
Passing by Brown 1/1 for 19 and a TD.

The wildcat, plus the amount of game planning involved in trying to stop it, was the reason for the Dolphin's success in 2008.   

[Tepop84]

TDs score by Pennington: 0.
Rush-yards-TDs 36-216-4
Passing by Brown 1/1 for 19 and a TD.

The wildcat, plus the amount of game planning involved in trying to stop it, was the reason for the Dolphin's success in 2008.   

LOL, The wildcat accounted for 108 yards that day.  62 of it was on one play when Miami was already winning 28-13.  3 of the wildcat scores, 2 yard td, 3yard td, 5 yard td.  First touchdown drive, miami drove 72 yards on conventional offense and used the wildcat for the last 2.  HOLY FUCK, GOOD THING THEY HAVE THE WILDCAT. Second touchdown drive, 79 yards, 0 wildcat plays.  Third touchdown drive, 79 yards, 2 wildcat plays, 8 yards.  WOW AGAIN. Next touchdown drive 79 yards, 1 wildcat play for 19 yards.