A real question - When to bench Henne?

[Pappy13]

...but for freaking sake why the freak keep do they keep running it when they now have a qb to develop?

Because it's still a pretty effective run play.  If you can average 4+ yards a carry you're gonna keep it around.  I noticed that at the beginning of the year they weren't taking Henne out, just splitting him out wide which means you can always put him in motion and toss him the ball on a pass play like they did with Pennington when they first started using the wildcat.

[dolfan13]

splitting him out wide is effectively taking him out as the qb for that play.

your basically saying, kid we don't have a play we are confident in you running that would be better than the wildcat right now. it's cool when you don't have a qb you are trying to develop, and you are just trying to mix it up in order to be a little more competitive. taking snaps away from henne, especially in critical situations when he should have the ball in his hands to develop his decision making will not help him improve as a qb.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't think MIA splits the QB out wide for the Wildcat any more; they take the QB out and put an extra blocker on the field.  It has been emphasized several times that when MIA runs the Wildcat, you have 1-on-1 football, so defenders have to get off of their blocks to stop the play.

And I don't understand how QBs supposedly "get out of their rhythm" by being taken off of the field for a play.  Does it get the QB out of their rhythm if they score a quick touchdown, or if you kick a field goal instead of going for it?  Who cares?

MIA has unique talent for running the Wildcat.  Given how many other teams have tried it (and utterly failed), I doubt Henne takes the Wildcat package to be an insult to him more than it is a compliment to both Ronnie/Ricky and our line.

[Brian Fein]

Last season they took the QB off the field for Wildcat.  During the preseason, they haven't been.  Taking the QB off the field telegraphs the upcoming play to the defense while they're in the huddle.

I could see running Wildcat as giving the coaches a chance to talk to their QB for 1 play in the middle of a series, to iron out a kink, or perhaps tell him something they're seeing from above...

[Pappy13]

splitting him out wide is effectively taking him out as the qb for that play.

How is that any different than when he hands off to a runningback?  Basically all you are doing is cutting out the middleman and snapping directly to the runningback and there are options in the wildcat for getting the ball to the QB.  They did it the first year with Pennington and it resulted in a TD.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

How is that any different than when he hands off to a runningback?  Basically all you are doing is cutting out the middleman and snapping directly to the runningback and there are options in the wildcat for getting the ball to the QB.  They did it the first year with Pennington and it resulted in a TD.

Here are some differences.

1. The QB can do a fake pump down field to keep the safeties honest before handing off, or at the very least the defense doesn't know that it is a run play when they line up.  Worked in 2007 cause defenses didn't know what Mia was up to at first.  Now you see the QB lined up at wr and you know what MIA is going to do.  That means you don’t need to worry much about covering the CB and can stack the box.

2. QB safety.  You can jam a wr at the line.  A QB that gets hit after handing off the ball is a flag and a first down.  If I was a DC opposing the Dolphins I would put my most physical cb on Henne with instruction to make him pay for the play.   Maybe even stick a linebacker on him instead. Not do anything illegal, but jam him and jam him hard.  On Monday when he wakes up sore he should remember every wildcat formation as much as he remembers every sack.  And no, I don’t care if being this physical or allows Henne to get open on a slow linebacker, the Dolphins ain’t throwing him the ball.  This exposes your franchise QB to more risk of injury.  Didn’t matter with Pennington he was intended as a one year rental.  Henne is suppose to be the QB of the future, you don’t want him on IR.

[fyo]

Here's one more difference, Hoodie:

With the quarterback split out wide and the tailback taking the snap, the offense has 1 more power guy for the running game, meaning the defense has to block 1 more guy.

Now, does that (offensive) advantage outweigh the disadvantages of signalling that it's going to be a run play? That's the real question.

If there's no threat of throwing the ball, I don't think it'll continue to work. For some reason, it still managed to most of the time last year, but if you allow the linebackers and strong safety to push up, it's a problem.

I hope we see some interesting stuff out of the Wild Cat this year, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Pappy13]

1. The QB can do a fake pump down field to keep the safeties honest before handing off...

Point taken, however how is that different for the QB which is what I was getting at?  A handoff to a RB doesn't include the QB any more than having him split out wide does even if he does a fake pump.

2. QB safety.  You can jam a wr at the line.

Won't happen.  I've seen the play run a hundred times and not once have I seen the QB even touched.  I don't know if it's an unwritten rule or what, but the QB isn't touched.  The DB responsible waits till he's sure the QB is not part of the play and then breaks off his coverage to defend the run, he's not going to take himself out of the play wasting time hitting the QB for no other reason than to harrass him.  Beside you're talking like the QB can't get injured on a running play. LOL

[Brian Fein]

You made the assumption that there's no way they throw him the ball, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's a "wrinkle" there that has Henne streaking down the sidelines.

[Pappy13]

For some reason, it still managed to most of the time last year, but if you allow the linebackers and strong safety to push up, it's a problem.

The RB taking the direct snap is not really the reason it's effective, it's the unbalanced line and the RB in motion that make the play.  With a RB like Ricky, you give him a head of steam and he can outrun you to the corner, but if you overplay it to the outside and Ronnie keeps it the 2 tackles can make a nice running lane to run it up the middle.  Even if you know it's coming it's still difficult to defend effectively.

Besides, most teams stacked 8 men in the box last year even with the QB under center.  They really can't commit any more than that to the run even with the Wildcat because Ronnie is decent throwing the football. Now my guess is that this year teams won't be stacking 8 men in the box as often and the wildcat won't be used as much.

[dolfan13]

when i think of developing a qb, i think getting the qb as many reps as possible in the live game action. letting him learn by getting all those reps in all different types of live game situations. in other words, developing the qb in in-game decision making.

im not debating whether or not the wildcat is an effective play. it does however limit the amount of reps the qb gets by its very nature.

[Pappy13]

^^^ I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, so you think that handing the ball off to the running back develops the QB more than splitting out wide does?  Is that your position?

[dolfan13]

huh?

a qb runs all the offensive plays running or passing. it's his responsibility to line up under center (or out of shotgun), look at/interpret the defensive formation and run the called play. the more reps he gets doing that, the better hopefully he can become at being a qb.

the wildcat play, effective or not, takes reps away from the qb performing that role by its very nature.

[fyo]

the wildcat play, effective or not, takes reps away from the qb performing that role by its very nature.

The plays taken away are designed RUNNING plays. Those are reps that do absolutely nothing for a quarterback's development.

[fyo]

The RB taking the direct snap is not really the reason it's effective, it's the unbalanced line and the RB in motion that make the play.  With a RB like Ricky, you give him a head of steam and he can outrun you to the corner

Except the Dolphins didn't use the unbalanced line for the vast majority of Wild Cat plays last year...

And the running back in motion is easily done with the quarterback taking the snap, so that's not a *difference*.

What the Wild Cat does is improve the match-up by 1 player and (at least initially) present the defense a look they are not used to, hopefully causing them to hesitate momentarily.