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Author Topic: A real question - When to bench Henne?  (Read 14477 times)
Pappy13
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« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2010, 01:49:00 pm »

a qb runs all the offensive plays running or passing. it's his responsibility to line up under center (or out of shotgun), look at/interpret the defensive formation and run the called play. the more reps he gets doing that, the better hopefully he can become at being a qb.

the wildcat play, effective or not, takes reps away from the qb performing that role by its very nature.
I'd agree with you if Henne had the option of audibling out of the run to a pass if he sees something that he doesn't like, but I doubt very seriously that Henne is given this option.

His job in the wildcat is the same as it is on a run, make sure the RB gets the ball and get the hell out of the way.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2010, 01:53:25 pm »

And the running back in motion is easily done with the quarterback taking the snap, so that's not a *difference*.
When is this done other than in the Wildcat?

....(at least initially) present the defense a look they are not used to, hopefully causing them to hesitate momentarily.
2 years ago yes, now every team in the NFL is prepared for the wildcat and know exactly how they are supposed to defend it.  It's not just Miami that is running it anymore, most teams have it in their arsenal even if they don't pull it out but once a year.
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dolfan13
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« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2010, 02:07:07 pm »

not sure what you are getting at here... wr is the same as qb on running plays?

the qb runs all the plays running or passing for the offense. henne isn't very experienced doing this, so he should take as many reps as possible within the live game to get this experience. on running plays an experienced qb will get everyone lined up, read/interpret the defensive formation, recognize certain players that may adjust blocking or technique, snap the ball with a certain cadence to get timing of the play correct, etc... it isn't simply a "mindless" snap and handoff role.

i remember back when manning was up and coming, some specials that they did on him around the work he put into the running plays in order to ensure a certain "sameness" with respect to play action pass plays. the amount of precision involved in a "simple" handoff running play is significant.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2010, 02:13:37 pm »

not sure what you are getting at here... wr is the same as qb on running plays?
Absolutely not.  WR's are expected to block on running plays, a QB does nothing but hand the ball off, rarely are they asked to block players and if so more often than not it's more like simply get in their way then block them.

the qb runs all the plays running or passing for the offense.
Every player on the offense runs the play, not just the QB.  The QB CALLS the play.  The QB still calls the play in the huddle on a wildcat.  Granted he doesn't call the snap on the play, see my comments below.

henne isn't very experienced doing this, so he should take as many reps as possible within the live game to get this experience. on running plays an experienced qb will get everyone lined up, read/interpret the defensive formation, recognize certain players that may adjust blocking or technique, snap the ball with a certain cadence to get timing of the play correct, etc... it isn't simply a "mindless" snap and handoff role.
And yet none of that "develops" a QB in my humble opinion.  I'm pretty sure that Pat White, Chad Pennington or Tyler Thigpen can do all those things as well as Henne can.  Developing a QB is done on pass plays where he has to go through his read of the defense and progressions.  That's simply NOT done on a run play regardless of whether he lines up wide or takes the snap.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 05:34:58 pm by Pappy13 » Logged

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Dave Gray
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« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2010, 03:41:45 pm »

Developing a QB is done on pass plays where he has to go through his read of the defense and progressions.  That's simply NOT done on a run play regardless of whether he lines up wide or takes the snap.

This is the key point for why we should keep the wildcat.  All that about stopping a QB's momentum is garbage.  The wildcat is simply (as far as Henne is concerned), a running play that may require him to block someone.
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fyo
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« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2010, 03:57:58 pm »

When is this done other than in the Wildcat?

The Dolphins actually did this quite often last season. Usually, it was Ricky coming in motion left-to-right and getting the hand-off from Henne. I don't recall it as being particularly effective. The most memorable thing about it was probably that the announcers mistook it for a Wild Cat play every once in a while.
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Pappy13
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« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2010, 04:11:08 pm »

And possibly the best reason for running it is so that defenses have to prepare for it which gives them less time to prepare for a traditional offense.
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tits muldoon
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« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2010, 10:23:33 pm »

Right now? Afraid Thigpen maybe our best q.b?
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2010, 11:30:12 pm »

And the running back in motion is easily done with the quarterback taking the snap, so that's not a *difference*.
This statement would only be accurate if Henne was a threat to run the ball (as a designed offensive play) upon receiving the snap, as there is a significant difference between being forced to defend against the jet sweep (which demands that you commit men to defending the sidelines) and defending a between-the-tackles run (which demands precisely the opposite).

The major advantage of the direct snap to Ronnie is that it significantly reduces the time that the defense has to recognize and react to the play.  Either Ricky gets the ball and is headed to the edge with a full head of steam, or Ronnie gets the ball and is immediately up the gut.  Substituting Henne in the jet sweep takes the inside run out of the picture, which reduces the options to "contain Ricky" or "defend the pass".  Even if Henne were to hand off to Ronnie for an inside run, that slight delay makes a world of difference at the NFL level.
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