Miami HEAT - What's the issue?

[Sunstroke]

1- Haslem's no scrub.  Ask Dirk Nowitzki, whom Haslem guarded and frustrated in the 2006 finals.
2- Pierce is not Michael Jordan.  Don't make him out to be a "you can't talk about this guy or else" person.  He's a nice SF.  Don't get carried away.
3- Miami is over-hyped the same way the Celtics became over-hyped the second Garnett joined them.  The hype became justified when they won a title.  We'll see if the hype in Miami is justified, in time.  My guess?  Yeah, it will be.
4- Nice of you to draw such strong conclusions after 9 games.  10% of the season's done, and you're anointing the conference champs. 

^^^^ Stands and applauds the All-you-can-eat Truth Buffet.

[bsmooth]

1- Haslem's no scrub.  Ask Dirk Nowitzki, whom Haslem guarded and frustrated in the 2006 finals.
2- Pierce is not Michael Jordan.  Don't make him out to be a "you can't talk about this guy or else" person.  He's a nice SF.  Don't get carried away.
3- Miami is over-hyped the same way the Celtics became over-hyped the second Garnett joined them.  The hype became justified when they won a title.  We'll see if the hype in Miami is justified, in time.  My guess?  Yeah, it will be.
4- Nice of you to draw such strong conclusions after 9 games.  10% of the season's done, and you're anointing the conference champs. 

1.Dirk chokes in the playoffs, not relevant to the point though. And one series is your justification of the guy's career against Pierce? Please.
2.He is going to be a first ballot HOF guy. What will Haslem be again when he wraps it up again? Pierce has earned the right to talk smack over a team that was outrageously overhyped pre-season ( remember 82-0, 5+ championships, going to the Finals this year, etc.)
3.The Celtics were not hyped to the level the Heat were because of the ages of the Big Three, but go ahead and believe that the hype level was the same.
4. The path to the Finals was going through Boston or Orlando before the trade, and so far it is still going through Boston. The Heat have serious point guard issues, and weak inside presence, but yeah you are right we should completely ignore the fact Boston has more depth, and is playing as a team already. No reason to think they will make the Finals again.

But none of your tepid little hysterics makes up for the fact that a second tier player at best should be talking smack about a HOFer, and questioning his toughness. If I remember correctly it is the star of Haslem's team who is already earned a reputation for quitting on his team during the playoffs.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

R U kidding? 

The hype level wasn't in the same stratosphere.  There wasn't an hour long special for Garnett joining the team. 

I know of one ex-Miami neighbor who roots for the Dolphins and Heat who told me 1 week before the pre-season there there was a very good chance that the Heat would be joining the 72 Dolphins and Miami would have the only two undefeated professional sports team.  Granted when it comes to homerims, he makes Tenshot look like a chicken little, so his expectations probably didn't jive with many Heat fans.  But still, I know way more Celtics fans than Heat fans...None of them have ever predicted an undefeated season. 

When I asked him how that was going, he stuck his middle finger at me. 

3- Miami is over-hyped the same way the Celtics became over-hyped the second Garnett joined them.  The hype became justified when they won a title.  We'll see if the hype in Miami is justified, in time.  My guess?  Yeah, it will be.

[tepop]

Greatest thing for basketball is having them lose. 

[JVides]

BSmooth,

You called Haslem a "scrub", not a second-tier guy.  There's a difference, and you know it.  Haslem is a solid pro, and his nullifying Dirk Nowitzki in the 2006 finals is an example of his value.  (Good God, you make him sound like Jack Haley or something!)

Pierce a first-ballot hall of famer?  No, that's Garnett.  Garnett is an all-timer.  Pierce is a very, very good player.  There's a difference there too.  And who says Haslem "can't talk" about Pierce?  I seem to remember even John Starks talking about Jordan, and Jordan was a real first ballot hall of famer.

The Celtics became instantly relevant and a mainstay on national TV when Garnett joined them, just as Miami has.  The level of hype may be more now for Miami, but the Celtics became nationally relevant on a completely different scale once Garnett joined.  The same is true of LeBron and Miami.  I said in the same way, not on the same level.  Same way, as in:  maxing out national TV coverage, maximizing exposure.

Boston has a lot of 36 year-old depth.  Should we ignore that, too?  You want to hang your hat on Jermaine O'Neal, Shaquille O'Neal, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett ALL staying healthy for the entire year?  All I'm saying is to not draw conclusions 10 games into the year. 

[MaineDolFan]

Boston has a lot of 36 year-old depth.  Should we ignore that, too?  You want to hang your hat on Jermaine O'Neal, Shaquille O'Neal, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett ALL staying healthy for the entire year? 

Yes, because they will do exactly what they did last year.  Do you really think Shaq was hurt for six consecutive games and then could come out on the 7th night, post a 19 point / 10 boards / 3 blocks / 4 assist  / 1 steal night? That is exactly what just happened over the last week and a half. 

 As the season goes along these guys get stretches off.  Boston proved last night that all you need to do is hang around mid-pack and make the dance.

Or did you miss the Celtics taking the Lakers to game 7 last year and coming this (-) close to winning banner 18?  The ONE reason they lost?  Kendrick Perkins.  Period.  Perk doesn't tweak his knee in game 6 and Boston is the current defending World Champion.  Not bad from a what?  4 seed? 

Boston is off to a good start.  They'll fall back in the pack and then pick it up again come April.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The Celtics became instantly relevant and a mainstay on national TV when Garnett joined them, just as Miami has.   

The Celtics became relevent.  The Heat became the unquestionable favorites that were a lock to win it all and 7 by 24 hour focus of ESPN.  Saying that the Heat and Celtics had simliar focus, is liking say that Ricky Williams unretirement got too much and as much attention just like the Favre retirement/unretiremment.  They ain't close.

I don't pay much attention to basketball. But you get more national coverage of the Lebron signing than their was news of Garnett in BOSTON where it was a local story.    

[Fau Teixeira]

the heat got more coverage because lebron is a better player than garnet and/or allen .. that's the only reason .. had lebron stayed in cleveland he could have won 5-6 consecutive MVP awards .. all of this talk is irrelevant.. i still think miami is the favorite to win the championship .. i still think boston is at most the 3rd best team in the conference.

In 2006 Miami won something like one game TOTAL against the other "contenders" in the regular season .. and blew people up in the playoffs. Debate the first 10 games all you want .. hell debate the 1st 30 games all you want .. miami will finish with the #1 seed in the conference and be in the finals.

I haven't seen anything from boston that shows me otherwise.

[JVides]

The hype level wasn't in the same stratosphere.  There wasn't an hour long special for Garnett joining the team. 

I know of one ex-Miami neighbor who roots for the Dolphins and Heat who told me 1 week before the pre-season there there was a very good chance that the Heat would be joining the 72 Dolphins and Miami would have the only two undefeated professional sports team. 

Yeah, that's fine and well.  He expected 82-0, I expected 65-17.  Can we just say that reasonable expectations are somewhere in the middle, and most likely tilted towards where I thought they'd end up?  For every person saying this team will be the greatest ever, there's someone saying they still need a C or PG, or that the whole experiment is going to blow up in Riley's face.

Last, I know after the Boston trade for Garnett, people were talking about a 3-4 year Boston dynasty in the making.  SOME people.  I wasn't out there going "the whole world is overhyping Boston, Boo-hoo".  They had reason for being overhyped.  The second or third best SF in the league (I score them LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Pierce), the third-to-fifth best shooting guard in the league (I had them as Kobe, Wade, Allen) and the second or third best PF in the league (I had Duncan # 1, Garnett # 2, Dirk # 3) joining forces is a big friggin' deal!  Well, this year we have the best SF, second-best SG, and third or fourth best PF joining up, too!  It's kind of a big deal.  The difference is, Miami will still be young in 3 years, so the expectation is a LONG run at the top, while with the Celtics, the feeling is that any day now, they'll get old.  For an example, look at how people are disregarding the currently 8-1 San Antonio Spurs, who are getting no realistic chance of winning the title because they're "too old" for many pundits.

[JVides]

Yes, because they will do exactly what they did last year.  Do you really think Shaq was hurt for six consecutive games and then could come out on the 7th night, post a 19 point / 10 boards / 3 blocks / 4 assist  / 1 steal night? That is exactly what just happened over the last week and a half. 

 As the season goes along these guys get stretches off.  Boston proved last night that all you need to do is hang around mid-pack and make the dance.

Or did you miss the Celtics taking the Lakers to game 7 last year and coming this (-) close to winning banner 18?  The ONE reason they lost?  Kendrick Perkins.  Period.  Perk doesn't tweak his knee in game 6 and Boston is the current defending World Champion.  Not bad from a what?  4 seed? 

Boston is off to a good start.  They'll fall back in the pack and then pick it up again come April.

That's fine, Maine, but my point is that you assume good health from players that, statistically, should be breaking down.  I assume that players that have never played together will jell (gel?) at some point and become what all the pundits believe they will become.  Why is your (or BSmooth's) assumption valid and not mine?  All I've been saying is that the season needs to play out.  Boston DOES worry me.  LA worries me.  Orlando worries me (though they like to chuck the ball from 3, rather than get the point-blank shots the way the Celtics do). San Antonio worries me.  New Orleans worries me.  Chicago will worry me when Boozer returns.

[JVides]

The Celtics became relevent.  The Heat became the unquestionable favorites that were a lock to win it all and 7 by 24 hour focus of ESPN.  Saying that the Heat and Celtics had simliar focus, is liking say that Ricky Williams unretirement got too much and as much attention just like the Favre retirement/unretiremment.  They ain't close.

I don't pay much attention to basketball. But you get more national coverage of the Lebron signing than their was news of Garnett in BOSTON where it was a local story.    

So covers of ESPN the Magazine, SI, SLAM, etc... is Boston only coverage?  Getting maximum nationally televised games is Boston only coverage?  Boston became "The Celtics" again the minute they traded for Garnett.  To that point, they were that sad team from Boston that couldn't get it together while the Lakers continued to reload, year after year.  Don't pretend that it was otherwise.  When Boston started 8-0 that year, there was DEFINITE national talk of them approaching the 72-10 Chicago Bulls record.  True, ther was no "Celtics Index" on ESPN (unless you count Bill Simmons); the amount of hype is definitely different.  But the hype around the Celts, back then, was really high, almost unprecedented, and the defending champs from THAT year (the guys in San Antonio) were almost ignored because of it.  Of course, they're USED to that, given that they're the best franchise of the past 20+ years (you could argue Bulls and Lakers, but those have both gone through losing stretches, while San Antionio has, like, 1 losing season since 1988 and 50+ wins every year except for 91-92, 92-93, 96-97, 98-99) but don't get much national attention for it.

[jtex316]

1- Haslem's no scrub.  Ask Dirk Nowitzki, whom Haslem guarded and frustrated in the 2006 finals.
2- Pierce is not Michael Jordan.  Don't make him out to be a "you can't talk about this guy or else" person.  He's a nice SF.  Don't get carried away.
3- Miami is over-hyped the same way the Celtics became over-hyped the second Garnett joined them.  The hype became justified when they won a title.  We'll see if the hype in Miami is justified, in time.  My guess?  Yeah, it will be.
4- Nice of you to draw such strong conclusions after 9 games.  10% of the season's done, and you're anointing the conference champs. 

Quote for Mother Fucking Truth. Outstanding!

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

So covers of ESPN the Magazine, SI, SLAM, etc... is Boston only coverage? 

I didn't say Boston only coverage.  But I am saying that the combined coverage of the Boston media and the national media of the signing Garnett was less than the national media coverage of the signing of LeBron. 

[jtex316]

So the Heat's issue as some of you have stated is their lack of experience together. It's also the fact that you basically have 2 guys who you give the ball to in clutch / "game-time" situations in Wade and LBJ. There's only one ball, so it's difficult to get a game plan offensively when you're basically playing All-Start game offense where all 5 starters are go-to guys on their team(s).

The Heat have lost to Boston (twice), New Orleans and Utah. All three teams are well coached, all three teams have strong nuclei, and all three teams have outstanding players (Pierce, KG, Allen / Deron Williams / Chris Paul). The big win for the heat came against Orlando, where they played out of this world defense. That's their key - defense. They need to play that type of shut-down D in order to be in these games.

Keys for Miami Heat success:

1. Play all-star caliber defense, like vs. Orlando
2. Use Bosh and Anthony and "Big Z" in a screen and roll game
3. Don't "settle" for the long 3-point shot - work it around the horn and in the paint until you get a good shot - a lot of the shots recently have come with lots of time left on the shot clock.

[gocowboys31]

[quote author=JVides link=topic=17573.msg214505#msg214505 date=128983355



Pierce a first-ballot hall of famer?  No, that's Garnett.  Garnett is an all-timer.  Pierce is a very, very good player.  There's a difference there too.  And who says Haslem "can't talk" about Pierce?  I seem to remember even John Starks talking about Jordan, and Jordan was a real first ballot hall of famer.



Boston has a lot of 36 year-old depth.  Should we ignore that, too?  You want to hang your hat on Jermaine O'Neal, Shaquille O'Neal, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Garnett ALL staying healthy for the entire year?  All I'm saying is to not draw conclusions 10 games into the year. 
[/quote]

Paul Pierce is a first ballot hall of famer without question. Are you kidding me? When his career is over he's going to be the celtics 2nd all time leading scorer. He's already 3rd and will soon pass Larry Legend. Pierce is so clucth it isn't even funny. I'd take him over Lebron James anyday of the week. He's been an all-star 8 times and has been finals MVP. You can't be that ignorant to think that pierce isn't a lock first ballot hall of famer.

And yes come playoff time i'll take my old farts over Miami's crew. I nthe playoffs the game is a halfcourt, physical game. The heat don't excel in the halfcourt, plus their are days off in between games. The old guys wont be extending themselves because Boston is deeper this year. Miami has zero post prescence, and if they play boston in the playoffs the celtis will just pack the paint and force miami to shoot jumpshots. I've seen lebron james enough to know that he will not beat you throughout a 7 games series shooting jumpers. Wade is the only guy im worried about because  he has that killer instinct lebron lacks. You Miami fans cany deny all you want, but the 2 games against boston dont lie. I'll even goes as far to say Miami wont beat a healthy Chicago Bulls team when they get healthy.