Worst Post-Marino Era QB?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

To the guy who said Brian Griese Sucked are you out of your skull???Were you even a fan in 1972-73?

Were you?

Are you aware that the Dolphins QB in 72-73 was named BOB Griese not Brian?  Are you aware that Bob Griese can not be considered the worst post-Marino QB because he was a pre-Marino not post-Marino.  Were you a fan in 2003?   

[Phishfan]

Think you may have misread. He said Brian Griese sucked. Not Bob Griese.

Hell even the guy you quoted said Brian Griese.

[Philly Fin Fan]

Hell even the guy you quoted said Brian Griese.

I know, thats what made it so weird!

[Phishfan]

I chalk it up to a brain fart. I've never had one myself, but my less competent friends have. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I chalk it up to a brain fart.

Me too.  But considering how condescending and viral his tone was towards Brian Fien, I figure the newbie deserves a good thrashing for his brain fart.   

[Pappy13]

^ It's a moot point. Bob Griese was highly over-rated anyways. You probably hear him as an announcer for college football and probably saw him play and thought he was great, but he was not all that great at all. He put up largely mediocre numbers throughout his career - I mean we're talking barely 1,000 yards passing in a 14-game season mediocre.

Actually Bob Griese never threw for under 2,000 yards in a 14 game season.  Also you have to remember that when Bob played, the rules regarding receivers weren't the same as they are today, you could basically molest the WR all the way down the field, none of this 5 yard chuck rule and pass interference was only called if you tackled the WR before he caught it.  Also QB's didn't typically throw the ball 30 times in a game, 300 attempts in a season was the norm, not the 500 attempts QB's put up now.  2,000 yards passing in a season at that time was quite respectable.  If you compare Bobs stats with a few other QB's considered to be pretty good that played at the same time, oh say Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw, his stats are pretty comparable.

And finally there is one stat that Bob Griese absolutely excelled at, the ratio of TD passes to pass attempts.  Bob's career TD to pass attempt ratio is 17.86.  In other words he threw a TD around every 18 attempts.  In comparison, Steve Young threw 1 TD every 17.88 attempts.  Joe Monatana comes in at 19.75 and even the great Dan Marino *only* threw 1 TD per 19.90 attempts.  Favre?  Not including this year, 19.74.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Here is the thing...totals and the like have something to do with 14 vs 16 games.  But as for % or  per game.  If the rules are really that favorable to the modern QBs wouldn't you expect that the leaders would all be from the current era?  And only a few from Griese's time?  But on this stat you have to get to #20 before you find some one who played after 1976.  Makes me think that the modern rules do not favor QBs as much as some claim. 

Actually Bob Griese never threw for under 2,000 yards in a 14 game season.  Also you have to remember that when Bob played, the rules regarding receivers weren't the same as they are today, you could basically molest the WR all the way down the field, none of this 5 yard chuck rule and pass interference was only called if you tackled the WR before he caught it.  

<snip>

And finally there is one stat that Bob Griese absolutely excelled at, the ratio of TD passes to pass attempts.  Bob's career TD to pass attempt ratio is 17.86.  In other words he threw a TD around every 18 attempts.  In comparison, Steve Young threw 1 TD every 17.88 attempts.  Joe Monatana comes in at 19.75 and even the great Dan Marino *only* threw 1 TD per 19.90 attempts.  Favre?  Not including this year, 19.74.

[Pappy13]

Here is the thing...totals and the like have something to do with 14 vs 16 games.  But as for % or  per game.  If the rules are really that favorable to the modern QBs wouldn't you expect that the leaders would all be from the current era?  And only a few from Griese's time?  But on this stat you have to get to #20 before you find some one who played after 1976.  Makes me think that the modern rules do not favor QBs as much as some claim. 

You've lost me.  Which stat are you talking about?  If you're talking about TD's to pass attempts, I think there's a pretty simple explanation. 

Back in Griese's time and before teams ran the ball a lot more than they do now especially between the 20's.  QB's didn't put up a lot of passes between the 20's, hence the number of attempts stayed pretty low, but QB's still found ways to get into the endzone passing.  So naturally QB's today are gonna have a lot more attempts that come between the 20's and so not nearly as many of them are for TD's.  That doesn't mean it was easier to throw TD's back then, just that a larger percentage of passes were thrown around the end zone than today.

And the point I was making was that throwing for 2,000 yards in the 70's does not really compare to throwing for 2,000 yards today.  Times were different.  Circumstances were different.  Another place where the different circumstances shows up is in INT's per attempt.  Griese and Bradshaw threw quite a few INT's, 1 per 19.94 and 18.58 attempts respectively whereas Montana only threw a pick every 38.78 attempts.  So while they threw for more TD's per attempt, they also threw more picks per attempt which I think is directly related to the rules of the game.  CB's could get away with a LOT more then than they can now.

By the way, where are you getting your stats from?  I'm curious because I put some stats together from simply looking at career stats for some QB's on NFL.COM, I don't have a comprehensive list of QB's and their career stats.  If you have that, I'd love to take a look at it.

[fyo]

By the way, where are you getting your stats from?  I'm curious because I put some stats together from simply looking at career stats for some QB's on NFL.COM, I don't have a comprehensive list of QB's and their career stats.  If you have that, I'd love to take a look at it.

While I won't presume to speak for anyone else, pro-football-reference has a TON of useful stats (including the ones mentioned):

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_att_career.htm

[Guru-In-Vegas]

Were you?

Are you aware that the Dolphins QB in 72-73 was named BOB Griese not Brian?  Are you aware that Bob Griese can not be considered the worst post-Marino QB because he was a pre-Marino not post-Marino.  Were you a fan in 2003?   

Nice one.   

[BigDaddyFin]

I thought we were talking about POST-MARINO era quarterbacks and yet I see somebody mentioned Bob Griese (not post-Marino and HOF) and someone said Scott Mitchell who left Miami via free agency to play for Detroit LONG BEFORE Marino retired, in fact played against Marino on a Monday Night Football game in 1997.

[Landshark]

I think the worst was when Dante was playing for Oakland when they beat MIA and ran into the endzone for a TD, then pointed at his knee to taunt us.

Made Cam Cameron look like an idiot for letting him go. 

[masterfins]

Surprised at all the hate for Lucas, granted he sucked, must be because he was a former Jet.  For me, determining the worst post Marino QB, I would only consider those guys who were signed to become the starting QB, not the back-ups who were thrust into starting due to injury.  Therefore, the worst has to be AJ Feeley.  He had one or two good games in Philly and they brought him in like he was the second coming of ...., he was terrible.  At least with Culpepper he was coming back from an injury, and he was probably rushed to play too soon.

[MaineDolFan]

Made Cam Cameron look like an idiot for letting him go. 

I know this is a joke.  Culpepper threw for something like 76 yards that game.  He had a few short TD runs...and nothing ever again.

Yet Cam "looked like an idiot" for letting him go?  It was one of the best moves the guy made.

[dolphins4life]

It should be pointed out that only one of these guys is in the ROD

BTW, Cleo Lemon is apparently in the CFL now.