18 game season (split off)

[Phishfan]

Playing time for vets isn't going to be vastly affected,

It is going to be affected immensely. Instead of the limited role they have, they will now be playing more snaps (preseason game versus a regular season game). That is why the union is not really in favor of an 18 game schedule at this point. Too much still needs to be discussed from their end (salaries, pensions, etc.).

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

It is going to be affected immensely. Instead of the limited role they have, they will now be playing more snaps (preseason game versus a regular season game). That is why the union is not really in favor of an 18 game schedule at this point. Too much still needs to be discussed from their end (salaries, pensions, etc.).

Yeah...that is actually the primary reason against.  One thing I would like to see them do to offset his a bit would be keep the 44 game day roster as is, but increase the 53 man roster to 65 or 70 and do away with the practice squad.  This would make it a lot easier for a team to keep a guy injured week 2 that should be ready to return in 2 months on the roster instead of sending him to IR. 

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

.
We* definitely don't want MikeO to feel that way...

*(We = the people who are conspiring against him.)

Hey.  Speak for yourself.  I am one of the co-conspirators and I do want him to feel that way.  Just for the record Sunstroke does not speak for the entire conspiracy and in fact we do not have an official spokesperson at the time, but I will be adding that to the agenda of the next meeting --elect official spokesperson.  (Lil'B don't forget to bring the donuts this time.)

[Dave Gray]

MikeO is wrong.  However, he will never admit that.  He doesn't understand statistics.  It is not worth rehashing anymore.  You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.  Until he brushes up on a math book, this conversation is meaningless.

[fyo]

It is going to be affected immensely. Instead of the limited role they have, they will now be playing more snaps (preseason game versus a regular season game).

Holy crap, talk about jumping on a sentence and taking it out of context. I thought Mike had the monopoly on this

It should be eminently clear from what I've written in this thread that going to an 18 week season would increase vet playing time (unless accompanied by a lot of meaningless games, right Mike?). However, the quote above was simply referring to playing time in PRESEASON games. That is, first string players would not see much of a change in playing time during the preseason even if the number of games were cut in half. Like now, they would see exactly as much as the coach felt was needed to "get them ready" and not one snap more.

[Phishfan]

Honestly, I didn't try to stretch anything out of context. Things have gone round and round on so much/so little that I honestly skipped most of it. My mistake.

[MikeO]

I'm not even counting the preseason games, they're so irrelevant. The way I look at it, it's strictly a move from 16 to 18 games. If it has the effect of changing the number of preseason games, so what?

Because you aren't looking at this issue from all angles. Season ticket holders win by going to 18 games. They will pay the same money. And lose 1 preseason game and gain 1 reagular season game. More bang for your buck as a fan!!

[MikeO]

It is going to be affected immensely. Instead of the limited role they have, they will now be playing more snaps (preseason game versus a regular season game). That is why the union is not really in favor of an 18 game schedule at this point. Too much still needs to be discussed from their end (salaries, pensions, etc.).

They are ONLY against it in the press. They want the 18 game season beacuse in return they will get rosters expanded from 53 to either 58 or 60. Add 5-7 guys on the active roster on 32 teams. That's close to 100 more NFL players. 100 more jobs. 100 more union members paying UNION DUES!!!!!  Union wins!

They are playing it out in the press beacuse if you have followed this, the Union CAN'T stop the league from going to 18 games. They can't. Owners can do it if they want, union has no say on this specific matter. So, the players (ie Union)  come out against it, so they now have a position to bargin with. And get something out of it. SO they can come off looking like they "won" too on this issue!

[MikeO]

MikeO is wrong.  However, he will never admit that.  He doesn't understand statistics.  It is not worth rehashing anymore.  You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.  Until he brushes up on a math book, this conversation is meaningless.

I am not wrong. I hold an opinion you don't agree with. But you can't agree to disagree and mvoe one. That doesn't make me wrong. And some of you guys need to read up  and look up the true meaning of the word "FACT" and then rejoin this conversation

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I am not wrong. I hold an opinion you don't agree with. But you can't agree to disagree and mvoe one. That doesn't make me wrong. And some of you guys need to read up  and look up the true meaning of the word "FACT" and then rejoin this conversation

No mike you do.  And also take an elementary stats class. 

[MikeO]

No mike you do.  And also take an elementary stats class. 

This is what it has resorted to..."no mike you do"   

At this point I think we can lock this thread!. What's next, "I know you are but what am I" 

[Dave Gray]

^^^

MikeO, By continuing to debate me, it is clear that you don't understand.

I am stating a mathematical fact.  It is a FACT.  It is a basic statistical principle, proven time and again by men smarter than both you and me.

By disputing it, you are inherently wrong.

1+1=2 is not my opinion.  That's a fact, sir.

Now, whether or not that fact will make the league better or worse as a result, that is an opinion, that I'm happy to debate.  But I won't debate the fact itself.

[fyo]

They are ONLY against it in the press. They want the 18 game season beacuse in return they will get rosters expanded from 53 to either 58 or 60. Add 5-7 guys on the active roster on 32 teams. That's close to 100 more NFL players. 100 more jobs. 100 more union members paying UNION DUES!!!!!  Union wins!

That might carry weight in a normal unionized industry, but I'm not sure it's particularly relevant in the NFLPA. It's a VERY small union and the people with a say consist of mostly active players, plus the head and a couple more. There's no real incentive for any of them to "grow" the union. The active players will be looking to do whatever benefits them, while DeMaurice Smith will try to take a longer view -- but "grow" the union? I don't think he has any incentive to do so.

I really do think the players are VERY concerned with injuries. These things cost them money... BIG money. Especially from the BIG name players. If they're playing more games, they will want commensurately more money and then we're back to slices of pie an size of said pie.

That's not to say I think the players WON'T be willing to go to 18 games. I do think that's a very likely outcome, given the money in it and given that the players CERTAINLY won't be willing to take less (in absolute terms) pie than they've had previously. I am a bit curious as to what the TV contracts say about an 18-game season... as you noted, some of them cover the next decade of football.

Right now, what the players are arguing is "total time on the football field". They're saying that if the number of games goes up, offseason practices need to go WAY down. I'm not sure if this is a bargaining strategy or what, but it sounds fishy to me. Not that many injuries happen during the offseason and those that do seem to be just as likely to occur in non-contact, player-was-alone-and-pop situations. Since players will still need to be somewhat in shape (*cough*), they'll still be at risk of those. I do think there's a real risk that the product on the field would suffer.

Personally, I'd like to see a massive INCREASE in offseason practices as I'm convinced it would improve the product. And, while nothing is close to the NFL in football quality, it's still shocking how poor technique a lot of players have.

[MikeO]

funny you mention offseason practices and an increase. The other thing the NFLPA is asking for  (and will probably get) aside from rosters expanding from 53 to 58-60. Is the end of OTA's and offseason programs. For the simple fact is if you are going to expand the season the players will want more "ME-TIME" and personal time in the offseason.

So I don't think you will see an increase in offseason practices. You will still have rookie mini-camps but thats about it

[MikeO]

^^^

MikeO, By continuing to debate me, it is clear that you don't understand.

I am stating a mathematical fact.  It is a FACT.  It is a basic statistical principle, proven time and again by men smarter than both you and me.

By disputing it, you are inherently wrong.

1+1=2 is not my opinion.  That's a fact, sir.

Now, whether or not that fact will make the league better or worse as a result, that is an opinion, that I'm happy to debate.  But I won't debate the fact itself.

believe what you want. I have said my piece more than once. It's not as simple as 1=1=2. Seriously that is just insane.  You have so many variables and so many "possible" outcomes that to determine whether more games means more meaningless games is not a cold hard fact. You could have so many teams bunched up at 8-8 and 7-9 and 9-7 heading into those final 2 added on weeks that damn near every game  is meaningful in some way. That is a variable you cant predict and say such and such is a fact!
 
But whatever, I will agree to disagree and move on. Cause you ain't changing my mind and I won't change yours.