Consecutively good QBs

[Dave Gray]

I was talking with a friend tonight and she said that she was sick of the Packers and didn't want to see them in the Super Bowl because they were an "old team".  I know what she means --- we've seen a lot of them before.  Then I started to talk about how this is a "new" Packers and Rodgers and Favre, etc., etc.

Then another buddy chimed in about ownership and how good franchises can remain good after losing a star player.

It got me thinking at how lucky (or competent?) that the Packers are.  They had Favre and then Rodgers as their consecutive QBs.  That never happens.   Usually, when you lose a stud QB, you have to suck for 10 years to get in a position to draft a new one.

The only other situation I can think of like this is with Montana and then Steve Young...and almost a third time with Garcia, who I think could've been better under different circumstances.

I see our team and think that we need to find a QB that's going to take us for 10 years.  It's almost unfair that teams can have this back to back.

[Brian Fein]

Aaron Rodgers was slated to be a top-10 pick and fell to 20-something on draft day.  It was silliness that he fell that far.  I recall watching him on draft day being the last guy in the green room.  Rodgers was the odd-man-out.

It was Alex Smith, Ronnie Brown, Braylon Edwards, Cedric Benson, and Cadillac Williams.  Rodgers should have been next, but the next 20 teams already had their QB's...  Good for the Packers for recognizing the value pick, cause its paying off now.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Drew Bledsoe and Tom Brady say hi.  

Granted Bledsoe isn't in the same group as Favre, Brady, Montana and Elway but NE had consecutively good QBs. A four time pro-bowler followed by a 6+ time pro-bowler.    

It didn't take the Dolphins a decade to recover from the loss of its first HOF QB -- only three years to get another HOF QB.  So while not quite back to back a three year gap between HOF QB is pretty damn good.  

I am sure I could find other examples if I went looking.  

[Brian Fein]

It didn't take the Dolphins a decade to recover from the loss of its first HOF QB -- only three years to get another HOF QB.  So while not quite back to back a three year gap between HOF QB is pretty damn good.  

I'm confused by this...  I assume you're speaking of Griese (Bob) to Marino, and not Marino to Fiedler/Lucas/Rosenfels?

[Dolphin-UK]

I think the thing that's overlooked here is that Rodgers also had the best possible introduction to a team.

Firstly, he was a higly rated QB that fell. He fell to a good team rather than being picked up high by a weak team. He had years to develop and learn the offense, get used to the players. He may even have had help from Favre but the main thing was that in pre-season, while Favre was engaging in yet another retirement will he/won't he saga, Rodgers was getting all the first team snaps!

I don't know anything about the comparisons between Alex Smith and Rodgers but I am fairly confident saying that had their picks flip-flopped (cue dreamy sigh from certain 49ers fans!) Smith would not have had the tough time he ended up with in San Fransisco.

I'm not trying to say that Smith is as good a QB as Rodgers, but that their introduction to the league could account for the significant difference now.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I'm confused by this...  I assume you're speaking of Griese (Bob) to Marino, and not Marino to Fiedler/Lucas/Rosenfels?

Off course I am speaking of Griese followed by Marino, not Marino to the series of bums since him.

Bob Griese was a HOF QB.  Three years later the starting QB was Dan Marino another HOF QB.  And the intern guy wasn't a total bum either, Dolphins made the playoffs 2 out of those 3 years.   

My point being that a franchise having success/being an annual contender on back to back or near back to back QBs isn't unique as Dave was suggesting. 

[Sunstroke]

I don't know anything about the comparisons between Alex Smith and Rodgers but I am fairly confident saying that had their picks flip-flopped (cue dreamy sigh from certain 49ers fans!) Smith would not have had the tough time he ended up with in San Fransisco.

As someone who has watched pretty much all of Alex Smith's career, he was destined to not be a good QB "wherever" he went. His hands are just too small to throw quality mid-to-deep passes with any consistency.

[Brian Fein]

Hoodie, think about it again.  Marino was a top prospect in a QB-heavy draft that fell to the 20's.  Same story as Rodgers.  Its not the norm, you gotta get lucky and have the chips fall to you late in the draft.

[Pappy13]

And the intern guy wasn't a total bum either, Dolphins made the playoffs 2 out of those 3 years.   

Yeah he was.  Woodley was really lucky to have a very good defense and a great coach in Don Shula who made him serviceable.  He had some decent games, but overall he was less talented than Henne by FAR.  Trust me, I watched the guy play and he had nothing.  He could run a bit, but that was it.

I remember when Marino came to the Dolphins as a rookie in '83 and Shula said when you put Marino next to him and watched them both just throw the ball, it was staggering the difference.  Here was a rookie and just throwing the football, was FAR more impressive to look at than this veteran QB.  Shula didn't like playing rookies.  Thought they needed to be groomed.  He didn't start Marino, but after 5 games he just couldn't let him sit on the bench anymore, he was WAY better than Woodley even as a rookie.

Just compare their stats in '83.

Woodley was 43 of 89 (48.3%) with a 5.9 avg/attempt with 3 TD's and 4 INT's and 10 sacks.
Marino was 173 of 296 (58.4%) with a 7.5 avg/attempt with 20 TD's and 6 INT's and 10 sacks.

I remember watching Marino in '83 with my mouth WIDE open.  I had never seen anything like it.  You just knew this guy was history in the making.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Shula said when you put Marino next to him and watched them both just throw the ball, it was staggering the difference. 

I said he "wasn't a total bum."  Not that he matched up well vs. the guy before and after him. 

My point wasn't about Woodley.  It was about Griese and Marino.  From 1967 to 1999 the Dolphins had a HOF QB behind center minus a couple of odd years.  That matches up favorably to the "luck" the Packers have had a QB.   

[Pappy13]

I said he "wasn't a total bum."  Not that he matched up well vs. the guy before and after him. 

My point wasn't about Woodley.  It was about Griese and Marino.  From 1967 to 1999 the Dolphins had a HOF QB behind center minus a couple of odd years.  That matches up favorably to the "luck" the Packers have had a QB.   

I know, I was just correcting you on Woodley.  He WAS a bum.  Trust me.  Miami's record had absolutely NOTHING to do with Woodley.  Had Marino come to Miami one year earlier, Miami would have won the SuperBowl in '82, the Defense was THAT good.  Unfortunately by about '86 the killer B defense was on it's last legs and that was the last time they would have a defense worth giving a nickname to.

[StL FinFan]

I'm confused by someone complaining about the Packers, who have not won the SB since 1997.  The Steelers won in 2009 and will be appearing in their 3rd SB in the last six years.

[badger6]

Yeah he was.  Woodley was really lucky to have a very good defense and a great coach in Don Shula who made him serviceable.  He had some decent games, but overall he was less talented than Henne by FAR.  Trust me, I watched the guy play and he had nothing.  He could run a bit, but that was it.

Less talented than Henne ? Well just from what I remember, and I could be wrong, but he played 3 years and was in the playoffs twice and the superbowl once. Henne has not shown the ability to even get to the playoffs, much less win a playoff game and get to the superbowl. If Henne could do what Woodley did we would have won a few of the ones that we lost this year. Just my opinion though......

[Pappy13]

Less talented than Henne ? Well just from what I remember, and I could be wrong, but he played 3 years and was in the playoffs twice and the superbowl once. Henne has not shown the ability to even get to the playoffs, much less win a playoff game and get to the superbowl. If Henne could do what Woodley did we would have won a few of the ones that we lost this year. Just my opinion though......

Did you watch him play?  Do you remember him playing?  I do.  I also remember when Marino played his first game.  I was watching the game and I'm like "Why is this kid on the bench?".  It was about a week or 2 later that Marino was starting.

Miami made the playoffs on the strength of the defense (this was the height of the killer B defense) and an effective running game with Andra Franklin and Tony Nathan.  Their passing ability was no better than this year's Dolphins and it wasn't because the receivers weren't any good as you can see that as soon as Marino started to play the passing game blossomed in '83 and '84.

Woodley was bad enough that he was often replaced when ineffective by Don Strock, hence the nickname "WoodStrock" became common to describe Miami's QB tandem.  They kept Don Strock after Marino became the starter, they got rid of Woodley and he only played another 2 years in the league for Pittsburgh and pretty much sucked.

I got NOTHING against David Woodley, I just hate it when people give too much credit to a QB that doesn't deserve it simply because he has a good team around him and they have some success.  Likewise I hate it when a QB gets too much blame simply because he doesn't have a good team around him.  Henne has gotten too much blame for this year's Dolphins.  They didn't play well as a team, it wasn't all Henne's fault.  The offensive line wasn't good.  The running game wasn't good.  The passing game wasn't good.  The Defense was good at times, but then fell apart at times as well.  The last 3 games of the season every last player should have been ashamed of themselves.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

Did you watch him play?  Do you remember him playing?  I do.  I also remember when Marino played his first game.  I was watching the game and I'm like "Why is this kid on the bench?".  It was about a week or 2 later that Marino was starting.

Miami made the playoffs on the strength of the defense (this was the height of the killer B defense) and an effective running game with Andra Franklin and Tony Nathan.  Their passing ability was no better than this year's Dolphins and it wasn't because the receivers weren't any good as you can see that as soon as Marino started to play the passing game blossomed in '83 and '84.

Woodley was bad enough that he was often replaced when ineffective by Don Strock, hence the nickname "WoodStrock" became common to describe Miami's QB tandem.  They kept Don Strock after Marino became the starter, they got rid of Woodley and he only played another 2 years in the league for Pittsburgh and pretty much sucked.

I got NOTHING against David Woodley, I just hate it when people give too much credit to a QB that doesn't deserve it simply because he has a good team around him and they have some success. 

Granted this is taking the discussion quite a bit off topic.....but.....

Pappy, what you are claiming seems to contradict what every single Dolphin fan/Marino apologist has ever said to me.   The claim is often that the team he played with absolutely sucked and Dan Marino carried the entire team and that had he had a supporting cast that was the least bit competent than Dan wouldn't just have a ring, he would have multiple rings.  You seem to be claiming that supporting cast around Woodley was the greatest collection of players ever who carried him along and that the QB been at all decent they would have been SB winners. 

Well, Dave and Dan had basically the same supporting cast. 

So if a total bum can take the team 27-12-1 with a 3-2 post season record.  Than Marino having not much better success than that with the same team says Marino is better than bum, but not by much. 

Please note: I am not saying Dan was a bum.  Just pointing out that if you claim Woodley had nothing to do with the success of the Dolphins and actually was in their way, you implicitly implying Dan was not nearly as good as most people think was and nowhere near what many Dolphins fans claim about him.