Is this what Dolphins fans have come to?

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

^^^^^

Well, Mark might be the best QB the Jets have had since guy they drafted in '83, Ken O'Brien.  Chad might be the best QB the Dolphins have had since the guy they drafted in '83 as well. 

But the expectation that were set by of what is a decent QB is quite different. 

[Phishfan]

^^^I don't think Sanchez nor Henne is a better QB than Pennington when he was healthy for either team.

[Pappy13]

Pittsburgh:

Superbowl Championships: 6 (most of any team)
Number of Head coaches during the super bowl era: 4 (least of any team that has been in existence during the entire time)

Coincidence?  I think not!

I agree it's not a coincidence, but suggest that the reason they've had the fewest head coaching changes is BECAUSE they've had the most success, not vice versa.  You don't change coaches when you are winning Championships.

[Doc-phin]

I agree it's not a coincidence, but suggest that the reason they've had the fewest head coaching changes is BECAUSE they've had the most success, not vice versa.  You don't change coaches when you are winning Championships.

Absolutely!  And while there are exceptions to this rule, I figured Hoodie would have been smart enought to see this before posting.

Success leads to consistency just as much (if not more) as consistency leads to success.

[Pappy13]

^^^I don't think Sanchez nor Henne is a better QB than Pennington when he was healthy for either team.

When you have to put the words "when he was healthy" behind it, it makes the whole statement meaningless because he's NOT healthy.

The problem I have with the fans wanting to get rid of Henne is just what the OP mentioned, that no one seems to be able to come up with the answer to who do you replace him with? I'm sure that Sparano/Ireland would go after someone if they were fairly confident it would be an upgrade over Henne. MikeO seems to think just about anyone would be. I completely disagree with him. There's very little evidence to suggest that anyone who is available would be an upgrade. They *might* be, but they might not.

And it's entirely possible that Henne *might* be better next year too. Josh Freeman has been mentioned because he had a good year, but look at his numbers from the year prior to that. Horrible. Worse than Henne's. So it IS possible for players to get much better in 1 year. It happens all the time. Sometime a light just goes on for one reason or another.  It's hard to predict when that happens.

I'm not enamored with Henne, but I think he's done a better job than most give him credit for.  He has a strong arm.  He has a high completion percentage.  His biggest negative is the INT's.  If he could just quit throwing INT's, I would have no problem with him and I really don't think that's that tough a problem to solve.  I don't know they can solve it, but it doesn't seem impossible to solve either.  That's why I still have hope in Henne.

At the same time I think it's wise to always be grooming a young QB.  Pick another one in the draft and maybe even use your top pick on one.  If it doesn't work out, fine, but at least give it a chance.  Picking a QB is not an exact science, you just have to keep picking one till it works.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I agree it's not a coincidence, but suggest that the reason they've had the fewest head coaching changes is BECAUSE they've had the most success, not vice versa.  You don't change coaches when you are winning Championships.

Cowher went 12 years before he won a superbowl.  Will Spano be given 12 years?   

[Pappy13]

Cowher went 12 years before he won a superbowl.  Will Spano be given 12 years?   

Sparano hasn't won a playoff game.  There's a big difference between not winning Super Bowls and going 7-9.

[Phishfan]

When you have to put the words "when he was healthy" behind it, it makes the whole statement meaningless because he's NOT healthy.

It isn't meaningless by any means. You either have no idea what I was responding to or just didn't comprehend. Hoodie said Sanchez and Henne could both be the best QBs for their respective teams since they each drafted QBs in '83. I said neither was better than Pennington when he had been healthy. How is that meaningless?

[Pappy13]

It isn't meaningless by any means. You either have no idea what I was responding to or just didn't comprehend. Hoodie said Sanchez and Henne could both be the best QBs for their respective teams since they each drafted QBs in '83. I said neither was better than Pennington when he had been healthy. How is that meaningless?

Sorry, my bad.  I didn't see the "^^".  I thought you were suggesting that Pennington would be a better option for Miami than Henne going forward, not comparing Henne to what Pennington had done previously.  Pennington is not the player he was a couple years ago.  He's had 2 major shoulder surgeries since then.  That's all that I was trying to point out.

[Phishfan]

Gotcha. I agree. I love what Chad did a few years back. He isn't going to do that again.

[fyo]

You don't change coaches when you are winning Championships.

Absolutely!  And while there are exceptions to this rule, I figured Hoodie would have been smart enought to see this before posting.

Success leads to consistency just as much (if not more) as consistency leads to success.

It's not like these guys all had instant success as head coaches... And Cowher did have a 7-9, 6-10, 9-7 stint... And how many were calling for Belichick's head after going 5-11 in his first season?

Compare Sparano's history with the Dolphins so far with Dungy's start in Tampa... He started out 6-10, 10-6, and 8-8... If the Bucs had had ANY kind of history, fans would've been clamoring to get Dungy fired after regressing that third year. Coaches need time, teams need time. Consistency IS important.

No one is saying that keeping a BAD coach around is a good thing. Clearly, if you have a bad coach, get rid of him, but as these past many years here have clearly illustrated, the majority of fans aren't willing to give things a chance to shake out; to find out if the coach we have is actually good or not.

[Pappy13]

It's not like these guys all had instant success as head coaches... And Cowher did have a 7-9, 6-10, 9-7 stint...

Alright, lets come back down to earth a minute please.  Here's Cowher's record in Pittsburgh.

'92 11-5
'93 9-7
'94 12-4 and a playoff win
'95 11-5 and 2 playoff wins
'96 10-6 and a playoff win
'97 11-5 and a playoff win
'98 7-9
'99 6-10
'00 9-7
'01 13-3 and a playoff win
'02 10-5 and a playoff win
'03 6-10
'04 15-1 and a playoff win
'05 11-5 and a superbowl win
'06 8-8

Actually as you can see he DID have instant success in the NFL.  He went 11-5 in his first year.  He actually had winning seasons in his first 6 years in the league and won 5 playoff games during that time.  So when exactly was Pittsburgh suppose to get rid of him during this time? 

When he did struggle for a few years, the owners stood by him, not because he was young and needed a chance to prove himself but because he had ALREADY proven that he was a winner.

It's a joke to compare Cowher's career with Sparano's so far.  There IS no comparison other than the fact that they both went 11-5 in their 1st season.  If the Dolphins went 12-4 this year and won a playoff game, we WOULDN'T be having this discussion.

And it's nice that Tampa stuck with Dungy and all, but the original discussion was about success and stability.  Pittsburgh was specifically mentioned.  Cowher is the only coach relevant to that discussion because Tampa isn't really known for it's stability and success now is it?  Dungy going 24-24 in his 1st 3 years as head coach was actually doing a FANTASTIC job for Tampa.

[fyo]

It's a joke to compare Cowher's career with Sparano's so far.  There IS no comparison other than the fact that they both went 11-5 in their 1st season.

Sigh... this is kids Internet debate 101 all over again. Take the perceived weakest point of your "opponents" post and completely bombard that, ignoring everything else...

I guess I expected more.

(Note my phrasing in Cowher's case, btw, and note that the coach I DID use for comparison was Dungy, not Cowher.)

[Pappy13]

Sigh... this is kids Internet debate 101 all over again. Take the perceived weakest point of your "opponents" post and completely bombard that, ignoring everything else...

I guess I expected more.

(Note my phrasing in Cowher's case, btw, and note that the coach I DID use for comparison was Dungy, not Cowher.)

I edited my post to point out why Dungy doesn't belong in the discussion.  I didn't just take one point, I took the most relevant point of the discussion.

[fyo]

I edited my post to point out why Dungy doesn't belong in the discussion.  I didn't just take one point, I took the most relevant point of the discussion.

I disagree on both counts. You singled out something that was practically in parentheses, but whatever...

On to Dungy... Yes, the Bucs weren't exactly known for being stable (ever), but the Dolphins haven't exactly been lighting it up recently either.

The point is, and this is why I do believe Dungy is a relevant comparison, that Tampa got that stability with Dungy. Granted, they threw it away again by mortgaging their future to get Chucky, but that 3-year start was followed by 30 wins in 3 years. And Chucky's Super Bowl win the year after underscores that the team was in very good shape when he left (note that I'm not taking anything away from Chucky -- this isn't the place to discuss his merits, but suffice to say I like him as a coach and any credit you take away from his SB win due to Dungy, you can add back on for his old team getting to the SB as well).

Would Tampa have had that really stable stretch (60 wins in 6 years) + a SB if they had given up on Dungy after 3 years? Odds are they would have improved, 'cause it's hard to keep sucking like Tampa did, but I really do believe that coaching consistency has been critical for their success.