Please, STFU about the Quarterback position

[masterfins]

Well yeah because I am right!

Who are the great QB's that don't make the playoffs consistently?  And who are the bad QB's in recent years that win playoff games and super bowls? NAME THEM!! So when someone says the Fins top priority isn't upgrading the QB spot, well than what the F' is the priority? Because it all begins at the QB position and if you dont' have one, I don't care about the other 50+ guys, YOU CAN'T WIN IN THIS LEAGUE!!!

I don't think any Fins fan doesn't want to upgrade the QB position, however some of us just don't think it's the #1 priority this year.  My reasoning is as follows: Believe it or not Football is a team sport.  The great QB's you mention in your posts are on teams that have filled all the major holes on special teams, defense, and other offensive positions; the Dolphins haven't.  If I wanted to waste my time I could go through past drafts and point out instances where sub par teams such as the Dolphis drafted #1 QB's and it didn't do them any good because the other pieces of the puzzle weren't in place.  I also take into consideration that this is not a strong draft class for QB's, nor are there any free agents that would be a substantial upgrade.  So, to review I'd like to see a QB upgrade, but IMO it's just not the #1 priority.  You can't win in this league without the other 50+ guys.

[MikeO]

I don't think any Fins fan doesn't want to upgrade the QB position, however some of us just don't think it's the #1 priority this year.  My reasoning is as follows: Believe it or not Football is a team sport.  The great QB's you mention in your posts are on teams that have filled all the major holes on special teams, defense, and other offensive positions; the Dolphins haven't.  If I wanted to waste my time I could go through past drafts and point out instances where sub par teams such as the Dolphis drafted #1 QB's and it didn't do them any good because the other pieces of the puzzle weren't in place.  I also take into consideration that this is not a strong draft class for QB's, nor are there any free agents that would be a substantial upgrade.  So, to review I'd like to see a QB upgrade, but IMO it's just not the #1 priority.  You can't win in this league without the other 50+ guys.

Its a team sport but teams have IMPORTANT players and less improtant players. QB is the MOST IMPORTANT player on the team and there isn'ta  close 2nd to that. Without a good one, your screwed! Especially in the NFL in the year 2011 with the rules set up the way they are.  Teh days of 3 yards and a cloud of dust are dead and burried. And if youc an't move the ball via the air and get "chunk plays", you lose!

This whole "team sport" you mention is a joke. In theory yes, but some guys (ie Peyton Manning) ARE THE TEAM!! If Peyton blows out a knee, the Colts are a 3 win team...maybe!  If Peyton is healthy they are a 13 win team. Same goes for the Saints, Packers, Chargers..etc.  If you can't see that then you are lost

[Spider-Dan]

I am asking for examples and you can't provide them. LIST the great QB's in the NFL and tell me if  every year (except for the occasional blip on the rader every now and then) are they esentially  in the playoffs?  Wanna shut me up, provide examples. What great QB has had a dry spell of back to back years of no playoffs? Or 3 years in a row of no playoffs? You can't name one. Look at the list, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, Cutler, Sanchez, Big Ben, Eli, Ryan, Flacco..etc). The great QB's of today are in the playoffs damn near every year. On occasion they might miss 1 year, but they damn near don't miss 2 years in a row or more!

Well, since you want to use actual statistics:

Drew Brees has made the playoffs 4 of his 9 years in the league as a starter, having missed 2 years in a row twice.
Eli Manning has made the playoffs 4 of his 7 years in the league as a starter, having missed 2 years in a row (current streak).
Jay Cutler (whom you specifically cited, for reasons unknown) has made the playoffs exactly once in his 5-year career as a starter.
Michael Vick has made the playoffs 3 of his 7 years in the league as a starter, having missed 2 years in a row.
Carson Palmer has made the playoffs 2 of his 7 years in the league as a starter, having missed 3 years in a row.
Kurt Warner has made the playoffs 5 of his 11 years in the league as a starter, having missed 6 years in a row.
Donovan McNabb has made the playoffs 7 of his 12 years in the league as a starter, having missed 3 years in a row.


If you want to throw out everyone you didn't name, (including Warner, the all-time leader in SB passing yards), sure.  The rest of these guys (all gentlemen that you specifically cited) have a combined playoff ratio of 9/21 (42.9%).  The illustrious Jay Fiedler made the playoffs 2 of the 5 years he started here.  That's 40%.

[MikeO]

Jay Fiedler, your going back some 10+ years for that one. Really? REALLY? Please

[MikeO]

Well, since you want to use actual statistics:

Drew Brees has made the playoffs 4 of his 9 years in the league as a starter, having missed 2 years in a row twice.
Eli Manning has made the playoffs 4 of his 7 years in the league as a starter, having missed 2 years in a row (current streak).
Jay Cutler (whom you specifically cited, for reasons unknown) has made the playoffs exactly once in his 5-year career as a starter.
Michael Vick has made the playoffs 3 of his 7 years in the league as a starter, having missed 2 years in a row.
Carson Palmer has made the playoffs 2 of his 7 years in the league as a starter, having missed 3 years in a row.
Kurt Warner has made the playoffs 5 of his 11 years in the league as a starter, having missed 6 years in a row.
Donovan McNabb has made the playoffs 7 of his 12 years in the league as a starter, having missed 3 years in a row.


If you want to throw out everyone you didn't name, (including Warner, the all-time leader in SB passing yards), sure.  The rest of these guys (all gentlemen that you specifically cited) have a combined playoff ratio of 9/21 (42.9%).  The illustrious Jay Fiedler made the playoffs 2 of the 5 years he started here.  That's 40%.

I will give ya the Cutler and Eli numbners. But nobody is considering Palmer or Vick elite. Also some of thsoe guys were backups for years and you can't hold that against him (ie Warner) . Hell even McNabb was benched last year. Not to mention Palmer has been injured a ton and missed whole seasons or large chunks of them. FUZZY MATH by your part. Bad examples minus Eli and Cutler

[Brian Fein]

What you fail to realize is the flaw in your circular logic.

A good team makes a QB look great.  A good TEAM makes the playoffs.  Thus giving the appearance of a great QB making the playoffs all the time.  Crap teams don't make the playoffs.

But you don't say anything about all the good teams with crap QB's that make the playoffs.  It happens every year, and occasionally they take it all the way.

You don't need a great QB to win, as long as you have a dominant defense.  This is a FACT, not up for debate.  Jay Fiedler is a great example.  Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Trent Dilfer are others.

[bsfins]

I'm concerned about the current state of the franchise (Coach,Front office),and making a decision at the QB based on the roster now (current CBA problems,and how it will effect this years season),that will hurt the franchise in the future....

Edited longer post,to one statement.....

Flame away..

[Spider-Dan]

I will give ya the Cutler and Eli numbners. But nobody is considering Palmer or Vick elite.

Jay Cutler is "elite" but Vick is not?  Do explain.

Also some of thsoe guys were backups for years and you can't hold that against him (ie Warner) .

I only counted years in which Warner was starting.

Hell even McNabb was benched last year.

Was he benched because of GREAT QUARTERBACK PLAY?

Not to mention Palmer has been injured a ton and missed whole seasons or large chunks of them.

So now durability doesn't count?  In that case, get Pennington on the phone.

FUZZY MATH by your part. Bad examples minus Eli and Cutler

1) You seem to have completely missed the example of Drew Brees, who has made the playoffs less than half of his time as a starter.
2) I already gave you the benefit of excluding everyone but Brees, Eli, and Cutler; that's how I arrived at the 42.9% playoff rate.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

By MikeO's logic:

Brad Johnson > Dan Marino. 

[MikeO]

You don't need a great QB to win, as long as you have a dominant defense.  This is a FACT, not up for debate.  Jay Fiedler is a great example.  Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon, Trent Dilfer are others.

Fiedler/Johnson/Gannon had NFL success  a long time ago by NFL Standards, going back damn near a decade! And played in a league with different set of rules for the most part. The game has changed so much in recent years, those guys would have never won in todays NFL

[MikeO]

By MikeO's logic:

Brad Johnson > Dan Marino. 

Not at all. It's the opposite actually but your too dumb to understand my entire point and follow this conversation. Marino (a truly great QB) carried his teams in the playoffs damn near every year. Johnson on the other hand couldn't.

[Spider-Dan]

So MikeO's point is such an established, well-proven tenet of the National Football League that... it falls apart when applied less than ten years ago.  Got it.

If you are talking about "a long time ago by NFL standards," at least have the decency to be referring to the pre-salary cap era.  Otherwise, you're using time as a crutch, solely because you know your claim does not stand up to historical scrutiny (and in the case of Sanchez and Cutler, it doesn't even stand up to today's scrutiny).

[Tenshot13]

It's the opposite actually but your too dumb...

No, I think you're too dumb.

[masterfins]

Well, since you want to use actual statistics:

Well now you've gone and done it!!()

[MikeO]

No, I think you're too dumb.

thats it, can't argue the point. So lets go looking for typos and grammer errors