Tressel nailed

[bsmooth]

yeah that basket weaving class is going to pay off big time for these guys.

sponsors, ncaa, tv stations, all earn millions and millions of dollars of these guys, yet they come back with they get free general studies courses.

serious students go to university to hone their long term professional crafts. the guys from the hood that basically carry entire athletic departments on their backs, should be equally compensated for their services.

if there were an appropriate minor league for football, none of these guys would go get that free basket weaving class, and ncaa would see their revenue streams dry up. this is all about money, and the only ones making large piles of it are benefiting because the actual folks doing the work are not paid.

I have never seen that class offered at any college I attended. What about all the players who actually get an education? You make it sound as if every student athelete is taking bonehead classes and having some one else do all the work.

[bsmooth]

The cost of a tuition is miniscule compared to the money that the NCAA rakes in from their college sports programs.

Irrelevant to the discussion about players not being compensated. Schools make their money on all the students and not just off the football team. These players are being compensated with a tuition package in excess of 20k a year ( in the case of Ohio State) Pretty good for an 18 year old kid without many options.
Wanna guess what options an 18 year old kid from the same place has, but has no real atletic ability? I guess they could join the military and make a whole lot less in compensation as a private, but they get free room and board too.

You guys make it sound as if these players are getting hosed by only getting the opportunity to earn a free college degree( which has been proven to substantionally increase their lifetime salary).
I say these kids have it well off compared to the students who are struggling to make tuition by working through schools and/or taking out loans to cover school costs.

[dolfan13]

do u follow the scores of the guys taking the wunderlic? vince young can barely talk... there certainly exists degrees and classes skewed towards those that can't/won't ever be successful in a traditional degree program. florida state is full of those universities aren't some magical place where everyone with a degree earns a good living, and has a good life. plenty of worthless degrees that sit on shelves to collect dust.

what was the famous line at auburn? the coach would hold up his hand with a number 2 and say school is number 1. then say football is second while holding up a number 1.

the only reason why the majority of division 1 college football players are in college is because it is a minor league football pipeline hiding under the guise of academic institutions. to suggest that they should be happy with some irrelevant 20K education, while everyone else earns millions off of their services is asinine.

i went to public schools in miami-dade (were talking homestead, fcat f here not palmetto or school like that), and i graduated with a bs in comp sci at um and a masters in comp eng at utexas. anyone who thinks that football guys that play in these miami-dade public schools (where a lot of college football talent is mined) is academically prepared to succeed in any kind of traditional university degree program is crazy.

florida? shit, kids with 1400 sat scores and perfect grades are being turned away. so some guy that just played football all his life, went to schools where the majority of the population couldn't pass the fcat, is now going to seriously come into uflorida freshmen class and be academically competitive? let's not pretend that these guys are going to schools like florida or texas to become biomedical engineers here folks.

[Phishfan]

the only reason why the majority of division 1 college football players are in college is because it is a minor league football pipeline hiding under the guise of academic institutions.

Then they need to do a bit of homework and learn that only a minority of them will ever play football at a higher level.

florida? shit, kids with 1400 sat scores and perfect grades are being turned away. so some guy that just played football all his life, went to schools where the majority of the population couldn't pass the fcat, is now going to seriously come into uflorida freshmen class and be academically competitive? let's not pretend that these guys are going to schools like florida or texas to become biomedical engineers here folks.

Do you seriously think that is the kid getting turned away? I dare say that kid gets an acceptance letter and the ones turned away scored more like 850 and had a 2.5 average.

[BigDaddyFin]

"when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to see a damn chemistry experiment?"

[dolfan13]

Do you seriously think that is the kid getting turned away? I dare say that kid gets an acceptance letter and the ones turned away scored more like 850 and had a 2.5 average.

are u following what is happening to states in terms of their fiscal budgets? newsflash, this country is broke... state schools are bearing a major brunt of this, closing entire degree programs, laying off professors, and certainly cutting back on enrollment. with a record number of applicants, at a school like uf, bare minimum is about a 1300. at ut, sat average of incoming freshmen class is at 1250.

you have an environment where almost all of the incoming freshmen are academic superstars, sprinkled in with a handful of football guys who met minimum graduation standards from fcat f schools. the incoming football class is not coming in to become the next great scientific minds of this country. they are coming in to win football games, put 80,000 paying fannies in the seats, sell ncaa licensed merchandise (including video games with likenesses of themselves), sell television contracts, etc...

in terms of football players not going on to the nfl, i certainly agree with that. a majority however are creating millions and millions of revenue for their current schools right now. they should have some piece of that at the very least.

[Spider-Dan]

Irrelevant to the discussion about players not being compensated. Schools make their money on all the students and not just off the football team. These players are being compensated with a tuition package in excess of 20k a year ( in the case of Ohio State) Pretty good for an 18 year old kid without many options.

They are effectively being compensated 20k/year (the equivalent of $10/hr) for performing in a sport that generates millions per year for their school.  Do not try to pretend that men's college football and basketball programs are some sort of noble loss-leader that the university subsidized to provide education to the underprivileged.  They are straight up cash cows, and many large universities treat them exactly as such (see: this scandal).

Wanna guess what options an 18 year old kid from the same place has, but has no real atletic ability?

But they do have athletic ability, so your comparison is ridiculous.  It's like asking what sort of money Tom Cruise could have made if he wasn't an actor.

You guys make it sound as if these players are getting hosed by only getting the opportunity to earn a free college degree( which has been proven to substantionally increase their lifetime salary).

Let me ask you a question:

Upon drafting LeBron James, if the Cleveland Cavaliers offered LeBron a degree from Ohio State in lieu of his first four years of salary, is that a good deal for him?

The purpose of getting a college degree is to make money.  Many of these players give up substantially more money by NOT getting paid than the amount of extra income a degree would generate.

You are also neglecting the fact that a great number of these athletes do not receive degrees, and never intend to in the first place.  The only reason they are in college is because the pro sports have codified the NCAA as their farm system, and they are essentially required to work for peanuts for 1-3 years before they can get fair market value for their services.

I say these kids have it well off compared to the students who are struggling to make tuition by working through schools and/or taking out loans to cover school costs.

Yes, people who have rare, valuable, high-demand skills have it well off compared to people who don't.  This is not news.

[Sunstroke]

^^^ Steps back and gives Spidey a standing-O

[bsmooth]

Lets see.
1. 10/hr? Would love to see the chart that spells that out clearly, since they are not doing football year round.
2. Many do not get degrees because they hope they will get drafted into the big leagues, even the odds are decidedly against them based on number of athletes in college vs how many can make the different leagues respectively. So the ones that actually realize and get degrees are much better off than the ones who do not and are not drafted, or are out of the league in a year or two with nothing to show for any of it.
3. You ignore the fact that many students have to intern to show off their potential to those in their career field that they would be of value to their organizations. Sports are just a glorified internship to show off your abilities in the hope the professional leagues will hire you. Many internships are free, like college athletics. The only difference is most of the other students do not have a free education.
4. This is why I say getting the opportunity to get a free education and show off your abilities nationwide to possible future employers is a boon that is of huge value above and beyond the cost of the education that is not being measured.

[Spider-Dan]

Lets see.
1. 10/hr? Would love to see the chart that spells that out clearly, since they are not doing football year round.

Their yearly "compensation" is roughly equivalent to that of an average worker making $10/hr.  Are they working year round?  No, but they also aren't getting paid overtime, they "work" on holidays without extra pay, and they have all sorts of extra rules that prevent them from profiting from their athletic ability or fame.

2. Many do not get degrees because they hope they will get drafted into the big leagues, even the odds are decidedly against them based on number of athletes in college vs how many can make the different leagues respectively. So the ones that actually realize and get degrees are much better off than the ones who do not and are not drafted, or are out of the league in a year or two with nothing to show for any of it.

So if I understand you correctly, the student athlete who gets a free degree (which is worth, say, $80,000) is "much better off" than the student athlete who plays for one or two years, makes hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of dollars, and then is out of the league.

You do realize that players can use their pro league earnings to finish their degree after they are done playing, right?

3. You ignore the fact that many students have to intern to show off their potential to those in their career field that they would be of value to their organizations. Sports are just a glorified internship to show off your abilities in the hope the professional leagues will hire you.

...except that you aren't interning for the pro leagues at all!  You're interning for some college that has no intention whatsoever of hiring you.

If I'm trying to show off my abilities to Goldman Sachs, why would I go intern at the local credit union?

4. This is why I say getting the opportunity to get a free education and show off your abilities nationwide to possible future employers is a boon that is of huge value above and beyond the cost of the education that is not being measured.

Then why do the minor leagues in baseball exist?

Again, you act as if salaried players would somehow be unable to take their earnings and pay for an education like anyone else.  Degrees are not titles of nobility.  They have a dollar value, and money is money.  I'd rather see players have the option to choose to get an education (if they need one), rather than the current system which forces them to work for peanuts so they can continue to enrich colleges that don't really care about their education.

[Phishfan]

certainly cutting back on enrollment.

I'll give you that UF is declining, but are we limiting the discussion solely to that school? Places like UCF are expaning their enrollments.

[bsmooth]

Now that the NCAA has official stripped USC of its 2004 title, what will the punishment for Ohio State be?

[BigDaddyFin]

Hopefully they'll get the appropriate punishment.  I never thought the NCAA would have enough balls to strip USC of the title.  Not that it matters.  They waited until after the fact to do it so it's kind of pointless.

[Phishfan]

I wouldn't call it pointless. I think you have to look past the "Punishment" handed down by the NCAA to see what punishment they actually received. Their very popular coach left (I don't buy that it wasn't a result of the investigation), they lost scholarships, and lost players to transfer. In addition, they lost face to the general public (although it will be forgotten in time). There was also more, but I don;t feel like looking it all up.

[BigDaddyFin]

I wouldn't call it pointless. I think you have to look past the "Punishment" handed down by the NCAA to see what punishment they actually received. Their very popular coach left (I don't buy that it wasn't a result of the investigation), they lost scholarships, and lost players to transfer. In addition, they lost face to the general public (although it will be forgotten in time). There was also more, but I don;t feel like looking it all up.

Ok Phish maybe I should have explained this more.  USC got to play in the championship game and won while they were cheating.  Undefeated Auburn never got that chance.  USC and the Media will still consider USC the 2004 National Champions.  Don't get me wrong I'm happy they got punished and caught.  So they have to give back a trophy and they lose some scholarships.  Ok fine.

To me it's like robbing a bank, you get caught and sent to prison, and when you get out they let you keep the money.