Jason LaCanfora links Kolb to Miami or Seattle

[dolfan13]

yay, another game manager at qb!

let's see, wasn't it early 2000's... game manager jay fiedler, solid o-line, great running game, great defense, time of possession, field goal, field position offense. yeah i remember that team. they won how many championships?

hello wannyball 2.0! they should change the logo on the helmets to just mustaches.

[fyo]

I'm worried about running back, fullback, tight end... and our secondary, to some extent. And inside linebacker.

And then there's the big one: playcalling. Really worried about that. On offense as well as defense.

Could we use an upgrade at quarterback? Sure, but it would have to be a major upgrade for it to have much of an effect, IMHO.

[cuzzy]

I can't fathom how most of you posters are concerned with TE.  I don't know why you think Fasano is a Witten or a Gates when it comes to pass catching.  What he brings to the table is that he is a hell of a blocker and stays in most of the time to protect the QB from getting killed.

I think when you combine the pass/run blocking and catching abilities....he's right up there as one of the most valueable out there.

I think the best off season move was to get a new OC.   Hopefully the phins will air it out more and surprise teams this year.

[Doc-phin]

Dolfan - We have much better receivers (or at least compliment of receivers) than that team had.  Does it matter that much?  I think so.  Plus our head coach may be conservative, but he isn't a moron. 

FYO - I think you are under-rating us a bit.  If you think our team will be a replica of the year before, then I understand your comment but would still disagree.  Better O-line (which I have no doubt we will have) = better run game and we drafted a quality back.  Polite is a quality full back.  Secondary was only weak at the nickel corner spot last year and it was a newbie playing the role, Will Allen is set to return and we drafted that position.  Even tight end isn't bad, we just need more than one.

Cuzzy - Being a hell of a blocker and keeping your QB from getting killed is essentially what I mean by max protect.  This is why we lose!!!  Nobody runs out and draws the safety or clears a linebacker which screws our chances at big plays.  Our tight end sits and waits for someone to rush his side, if nobody comes we are disadvantaged due to numbers, if they do come we only hope the tight end doesn't get outmatched by a more physically dominant player.  I like Fasano too, but he needs a quality counterpart and may be better suited as a second tight end.  Either way, we can't afford to max protect all the time like we have since Henne took over.

[fyo]

FYO - I think you are under-rating us a bit.

Perhaps. Hopefully...

I should probably be more optimistic about Fasano. I'm actually not sure what it is about him... Just seems like he doesn't "make enough plays" and I don't want to quantify that in any way! Just my impression and I'm probably a bit off...

But, I'm not sold on Polite as a blocking fullback. It seemed like he wasn't being used as much in that capacity last season and when he was, the result was mediocre.

With regards to our secondary, I think you're just plain wrong. Our corners dropped a boat load of interceptions and Vontae Davis, in particular, looked bad at times. Our ability to contain passes to tight ends and running backs was horrible, for the umpteenth season in a row. You'd think someone would learn. Part of it seems to be he lack of a true inside linebacker, part of it weakness at safety, and part of it bad playcalling on D.

I'm not down on next season. Far from. I think we addressed some of our biggest needs and a healthy Odrick should give a good boost to the defense. More pressure on the quarterback means less time for our secondary to get burned.

Still, there are a ton of unknowns and I still don't like our depth at pretty much ANY position.

[Doc-phin]

I know it is off topic, but I think this merits a little discussion...

FYO - The good news is we don't outright disagree!  But allow me to make a few points in an effort to improve your, and possibly other's, optimism.

Fasano and Polite are both solid but not outstanding, so there is no need to elaborate on those positions IMO.  We also know that our D-line is dominant and nobody can can really run on us, so I will leave that alone.  That leaves us with discussions on corner backs, safeties and linebackers.

Keep in mind, while you are right that we didn't get the interceptions out of our secondary that we should have (finger pointed at Sean Smith and Chris Clemons), we didn't have a problem with being scored on.  We got turnovers, but not the kind we wanted (we got punts).  Our defense played very well overall last year and had a ranking to back it up.  Take a few of those dropped int's and we are looking like a top tier defense instead of just better than average.

Lets talk corner back.  The only player that really got burned last year was Jason Allen and he is gone.  Benny Sapp got picked on in a few games (particularly on third down), but I truly believe we are going to address that with Will Allen or if we can get our drafted corner up to speed.  So we have Davis, Smith, Allen at corner with backups or possible suprises in Carroll, Wilson and Sapp (maybe).  Can anyone argue that Davis isn't quietly becoming a shut down corner?  When did Sean Smith get burned last year and did he not greatly improve his tackling?  While Allen may not be the #1 corner he used to be, is there any real doubt that he can handle a backup role/nickel corner role well?  Did Carroll not show enough competency as a quality backup?  These are all knowns.

So lets talk safety.  This was really Clemons first year and other than dropping a few picks, he was right where he needed to be nearly every time.  He broke up a ton of plays last year against quality receivers.  Bell is still struggling with great tight ends, but we seem to have found a solution for that by putting Smith against the better receiving tight ends.  Otherwise, Bell is a very quality strong safety.  We saw enough of Jones to say that he can absolutely backup Clemons and maybe even push for a starting job (great depth).  Culver is reliable and well known to us as a backup to Bell.  Everyone is going to remember the one play last year where it appeared Culver was way out of position, but my understanding is that it was the corner's fault (and I think that was Jason Allen).  Sure we don't have a Palamalu or Ed Reed, but not many teams do.  Where are the liabilities (for big plays)?  Compare our combined safety talent to the rest of the league and I can genuinely say we are above average.

Finally, lets talk linebackers.  This is where our depth is an issue.  We had injury problems last year that kept our rookies from getting on the field and Dobbins on it.  But lets focus on what we know.  Where is the weakness in the line up of Wake, Dansby, Crowder and Misi?  You might say Misi, but he is doing his job as an edge setter pretty well and should progress from year one to year two.  You might say Crowder because of last years health issues, but on the field he doesn't get burned downfield and he is ultra physical against the run.  He also didn't get overused last year and there is reason to believe his knee will be better this year.  Dansby and Wake just outright kicked ass last year and there is no reason to believe they won't again.  So that leaves us with depth.  I have to agree that our linebacker depth is concerning.  Dobbins does show a nose for stopping the run and sniffing out screens, but he has to improve in coverage.  We hope that Edds is as advertised in pass coverage, but it is an unknown in the NFL.  Alama-Francis has upside as a backup to Misi and isn't a liability, but his early season illness last year kept us from seeing what he is capable of.  Spitler and Rivera are really just total unknowns.  If I were Sparano, I would really be looking for another pass rusher to backup Wake.  Say what you want about Moses, but pass rushing was a strength of his and may be worth one more year on our squad in a backup role.

So once again I will state it.  If we stay healthy, we have a damned good defense!  IMO, we have good depth at D-line and safety with middle of the road depth at corner and very questionable depth at linebacker.  We have a dominant D-line, a true #1 corner in Davis, a true dominant pass rusher in Wake, a star linebacker in Dansby, a run stuffer in Crowder and a trustworthy set of safeties.  How can you not be optimistic?

[fyo]

Doc, a lot of good arguments, no question.

Let me just get one thing we (mostly) agree on out of the way... linebackers. We have some really great outside linebackers. Definitely top tier in my book. My problem is the one or two inside linebackers (3-4, 4-3). It's not that we need an elite ILB, but what I saw last year just wasn't good enough. They tackle quite well and are quite adept at stopping any runners that get through our D-line, but they're absolutely LOST when they have even the slightest bit of coverage responsibility. Most teams that play the 3-4 seem to have at least 1 inside linebacker who can cover... we don't.

As for our run D... it was very, very good. No question. The one big weakness was "power situations". When you KNOW the other team is going to drill it up through the middle and still can't stop it, that's a problem. I'm hoping Odrick can contribute some of the inside push that got him drafted in the first round. If so, our run D could go from very, very good to great.

Now for some points of disagreement, well, mainly one: Our secondary. The ineptitude of our linebackers to help in coverage stresses our safeties, who don't seem that good to begin with.

Chris Clemons definitely has potential, but I have to admit that when many months pass since the games, I have a hard time remembering who got burned by whom and have to increasingly rely on stats, flawed as they are.

You say we got better at defending against tight ends as the season wore on... that's not my recollection. And the tight ends didn't need to be world class. In general, tight ends and running backs had their way with us ALL SEASON LONG. It was infuriating to watch. Take a look at the number for the last two games of the season:

Loss at home to the Lions: We allowed 222 yards passing, 155 of which came on passes to running backs and tight ends! (And both touchdown passes).

Loss away at New England: We got walloped, but the leading receiver for the Pats was their tight end, with Gronkowsk having a career day (about 50% more yards than in any other game).

For the season, only four teams performed worse against tight than we did. The numbers against running backs were a better, but still solidly in the wrong half.

[dolfan13]

for this team, if he were to get his head straight, vince young would be ideal.

guy can make plays down field, and he can really put pressure on the defense in being able to run out of the pocket.

right now there is nothing about this dolphins offense that really scares a defense. they can play man on the corners, and just stack the box to stop the run. henne can't make any deep throws, so they are forced to just play in a phone booth. it's magnified when they get into scoring position because henne can't make the throws in tight windows, and everyone is packed in tight.

looking at some vy highlights, it's amazing how much a part of other teams playbooks, how often the qb runs within the 10, 5, whatever scoring range. reminiscent of the spread everyone out, run the qb up the middle td play houston qb schaub has run against us. obviously the fins haven't had many qb's with mobility as of late, but a lot of teams rely heavily on their qb making plays especially when everything is packed in tight within the red zone.

[fyo]

for this team, if he were to get his head straight, vince young would be ideal.

There's no question... if you want a QB change to make a difference, you have to get someone who's a threat on their own.

As I posted elsewhere, there are NO other quarterbacks on the roster right now (not counting the developmental kid, whose name I can't recall). Pennington and Thigpen are free agents. Gone. Could they be resigned? Possibly. I certainly wouldn't mind having Thigpen around. Not too keen on Kolb... Would love to have Carson Palmer, but I don't see him landing in Miami...

Still, I haven't given up on Henne. He's been put in horrible situations by the coaching staff. If everyone watching in a bar knows the playcall, you can bet the opposing team does, too.

If you look at Henne's splits for the 2010 season, what everyone saw on Sundays bears out. When ahead, the Dolphins played it safe with 2 receivers and tight ends kept in. Yet the D still got the pressure. And Henne's performance suffered. Henne's numbers were best with multiple (>2) receivers. Best when trailing. Actually a pretty decent quarterback when the coaches were forced to call some decent plays. When they tightened up and played not to lose... well, that's when everyone in the bar could call out the plays.

[Doc-phin]

If you look back to my original comment on this thread, I don't see how any of these potential free agent acquisitions could really be in anything other than a good situation by coming to Miami.  At the very least we have a good line and a top notch receiver (assuming no legal issues arise).

Hasselbech, Kolb and Palmer are all solid enough as passers that they don't need to be mobile.  Behind our line, I feel any of them would be comfortable in the pocket and excel.  Henne hasn't shown that he is in the same league as these guys IMO.  If we stick with Henne, we have to pray that his passing and decision making improves because he is about as slow moving as they come.

When it comes to Vince Young, there is no doubt the guy has talent and offers that mobility dynamic.  However, I seriously question his competitive spirit and ability to handle the skepticism that has been brewing in Miami for quite some time now.  Not only that, but I how is this guy going to handle the Miami party seen?

If Young comes to Miami, I would be excited and give him the benefit of the doubt but I would always be fearful of his stability.  I can't help but believe that it would actually be better to try and retain Thigpen as a competitive guy who can create with his legs over taking the chance on Vince.

[fyo]

I've seen nothing that convinces me Kolb is better than Thigpen... or Henne, for that matter.

Young is a different kind of guy. Just not sure he'd work out in Miami.

Hasselbech... no thanks. He's completely West Coast Offense and I doubt he'd be any good in Miami, even if he could stay on the field.

Palmer... he's the only one of them I can get excited about. He's not a long-term solution, but he could come in for the next 2-3 years with Henne as the backup. Next year, we'd draft a young stud QB to take over when Palmer called it quits.

[Doc-phin]

I've seen nothing that convinces me Kolb is better than Thigpen... or Henne, for that matter.

Young is a different kind of guy. Just not sure he'd work out in Miami.

Hasselbech... no thanks. He's completely West Coast Offense and I doubt he'd be any good in Miami, even if he could stay on the field.

Palmer... he's the only one of them I can get excited about. He's not a long-term solution, but he could come in for the next 2-3 years with Henne as the backup. Next year, we'd draft a young stud QB to take over when Palmer called it quits.

I agree with Kolb; the jury is really still out on him.  I really was thinking Orton and put Kolb for some reason.

I really don't see why a west coast QB would be all that bad.  I supose you are wanting lots of go routes, but what are the chances of that with this coaching staff?  Most offenses in the league have a good bit of west coast elements and just lack the terminology.  I can see us moving away from out routes and hook routes and going to quick slants and running back swing routes which is really most of the west coast concept anyway.

[BigDaddyFin]

I agree with Kolb; the jury is really still out on him.  I really was thinking Orton and put Kolb for some reason.

I really don't see why a west coast QB would be all that bad. 

Everybody has elements of the west coast offense in their system.  On the face of it a good quarterback is a good quarterback.  However look at what's available via free agency.  They're all either washed up, weren't worth a shit to begin with or can't stay on the field. 

Of them Palmer is the best choice, but even he has an injury history and with all the weapons he had in Cincinnati I gotta wonder just how good he really is.

[dolfan13]

henne is terrible... maybe he gets magically better, but that's like believing in santa claus or winning the lottery.

what sealed it for me was where fasano was wide freaking open for that touchdown i forget against who. what does henne do on that short, wide open, anyone with a heartbeat could complete for a touchdown pass? throw some sort of shot put, ugly pass, not even in the vicinity of where fasano was at.

it's not the system that is the reason henne is bad. he really is just a bad qb.

[Sunstroke]

henne is terrible... maybe he gets magically better, but that's like believing in santa claus or winning the lottery.

A 25 year old QB still developing (26 when season finally starts) is as likely as Santa Claus existing or winning the Lotto?

That sounds fairly crazy to me...