The ethics of injury

[Dave Gray]

Rondo injured his arm the other night and Mike and Mike on ESPN were talking about what is "allowed" and what is "dirty".  Callers and emailers were all over the place.

The three examples, from tamest to worst:

1) In a wrestling match, if your opponent has a bum knee, that you'd shoot for that knee, knowing it is weaker.
2) In a basketball game, when a guy has a busted shoulder, playing extra physical, knowing it may get aggravated.
3) In a football game, when a player has a hurt ankle, to find and twist in, while in the pile.


Which level do you find acceptable, if any?

For me, I think that if you enter a game, hurt or not, you're opening yourself up to the normal physical contact associated with that sport, within the rules.  I think that #1 and #2 are OK.  #3 is dirty play.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I would agree. 

#1 and #2 are okay, #3 is not okay. 

But then again #1 & #2 are okay if the guy is not hurt, and #3 is not okay if the guy is not hurt. 

In sports you exploit the opponents weaknesses.  If you know that a player is stronger going to the left than the right, you force him to the right.  Doesn't matter if that is because he was born that way, his technique or injury.  OTOH, hitting a guy in the pile, whether injured or not is wrong.

[Phishfan]

Whether a player is injured or not, the same rules apply as far as I am concerned. Rough play is always OK but intentional twisting, turning, etc. goes beyond rough play.

[Sunstroke]

I'm OK with #1 and #2...but #3 is definitely taking it to a "dirty play" place.

[Pappy13]

Depends on what you mean with #1. If you are talking about just using it as an advantage, it's OK, but if you're talking about targeting the knee to try to hurt the knee to prevent him from competing, I think it's dirty.

[BigDaddyFin]

Does this apply to payback situations?  Generally I would say if a guy plays you clean then whatever, but there's guys who just pull shit to pull shit and sometimes there's no reason for it.

Generally you play hard and you play physical and yeah, if you know a guy has a bad shoulder, and that's the side you want to block him on, you make sure you attack it. 

However, I've also had people try to take me out, and I've generally been able to pay it back on them at least three fold.

Example1: a defensive end on a rival team tried to cleat me.  I knew the kid from middle school.  Naturally he got a face full of my Red Man when I blocked him on the next play. (it was legal then)  On the next series when I went on defense he tried cut me in a way that would have almost guaranteed me blowing out my knee.  So at the bottom of the pile, I grabbed his ankle and death rolled him. 

Example2: I spent most of the afternoon beating the piss out of some defensive tackle they had playing. It was a team that we only played once or twice the whole 4 years in high school.  Even when the kid tried to get dirty he was terrible at it.  The kind of kid you outweigh by 40 pounds and if he punches you he's going to break his hand on your shoulder pads.  I told him knock off his shit, he didn't.  So he got my forearm to his facemask.  I got flagged but even the ref was laughing because when I hit him the kid went rolling around like those one of those weeble toys. 

[bsmooth]

In regards to ROndo's injury. I do not think it was truly dorty, but he went out of his way to take him down with that leg sweep trying to draw a foul. That should be a flagrant foul when players pull someone down to try and draw a foul as people can get hurt.
The NBQ really needs to adopt the soccer rules when it comes to flopping. First flop is a foul, second flop is an ejection.

[Pappy13]

The NBQ really needs to adopt the soccer rules when it comes to flopping. First flop is a foul, second flop is an ejection.

Nah, flopping is not a problem in the NBA, it's a problem in soccer. What soccer and the NBA need to do is get better refs, ones that aren't influenced by a players' reaction. The reason players flop is because sometimes it works especially on questionable refs. If refs would actually only call fouls when they actually see contact, players wouldn't flop.

It's getting better in soccer. You don't see nearly as many flops today as you did 10 years ago and most instant replays show there really was contact when it's called. Sometimes there's contact and it's not called, but those are the breaks, I can live with that.

[Phishfan]

Flopping in the NBA most certainly is a problem.

[bsmooth]

Nah, flopping is not a problem in the NBA, it's a problem in soccer. What soccer and the NBA need to do is get better refs, ones that aren't influenced by a players' reaction. The reason players flop is because sometimes it works especially on questionable refs. If refs would actually only call fouls when they actually see contact, players wouldn't flop.

It's getting better in soccer. You don't see nearly as many flops today as you did 10 years ago and most instant replays show there really was contact when it's called. Sometimes there's contact and it's not called, but those are the breaks, I can live with that.

The reason it got better is they cracked down on it. 2 flops got you a red card which means a suspension for the next game. Imagine what would happen to flopping in the NBA if people who got ejected for flagrant flopping were suspended for the next game too.

[Pappy13]

The reason it got better is they cracked down on it. 2 flops got you a red card which means a suspension for the next game. Imagine what would happen to flopping in the NBA if people who got ejected for flagrant flopping were suspended for the next game too.

And how many people actually got ejected for flopping twice? Anyone?

[StL FinFan]

NHL gives a 2 minute penalty for flopping.