CBA Status - Eyeing a Deal by July 21

[fyo]

ESPN's Mike and Mike in the Morning have had some really excellent and level-headed coverage this morning of the whole mess, including several key people like Takeo Spikes, the 49ers' player rep. It was interesting to hear Mike and Mike call out, by name, a specific lawyer for the owners. This guy seems to have rubbed everyone the wrong way all through the process and he has a significant part in the communications mess that contributed to yesterday's clusterf*ck.

Listening to Takeo, it's amazingly clear how little these sides trust each other. The owners voted on two issues, the CBA and a supplemental revenue-sharing agreement. The latter stole the headlines and because the NFL had failed to communicate anything about this intent, DeMaurice and Co didn't learn about it until the league sent the papers over (which happened prior to the conference call, prior to Goodell's press conference announcing the ratification, even). After having slept on it, what the players appear to want is to read through the whole thing and make sure the owners haven't changed anything.

Takeo then started talking about workers' comp and how that needed to be addressed first as well. That's a lack of communication on DeMaurice Smith and the executive negotiation team's part (which includes several player reps, but not Takeo). These issues CANNOT be dealt with until the league recertifies, so clearly this cannot be handled now. I have to assume that the formulation about keeping the old CBA stance on these issues unless other things are agreed to is part of that "handshake agreement" between DeMaurice Smith and Roger Goodell. From various leaks, it actually seems like there are several changes (like blood tests for HGH) that have been agreed upon in principle, but no formal negotiation on that can be done until the NFLPA recertifies.

It seems like the owners honestly believe that the deal they ratified is the deal they had a handshake agreement with DeMaurice Smith on. Unless they are putting on one hell of an act, the deal presented to the players is probably exactly what Smith and Goodell agreed on and the main thing that happened was a communications snafu.

Then there's the part that's not the deal. The timeline the league set for recertification. That really rubbed the players the wrong way. Hopefully, they'll figure out a way to vote on the deal today and present it without feeling like they lose face in doing so. There's a lot of testosterone going...

The supplemental revenue sharing agreement shouldn't be an issue. At all.

[bsfins]

I know the players got locked out by the owners,but do we know what the players have gained from this proposed CBA agreement...

What did the players gain in their "horse trading"...My example would be like...They agreed to HGH blood tests,for no two a day practices...

(sorry I'm lazy ass,and don't feel like reading through this whole thread...)

Never mind, I kind of see what I wanted in Armando's blog....
http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2011/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-new-nfl-agreement.html

[MikeO]

Jesus... you just don't get things sometimes. The player reps have to agree to things first. Until that happens, nothing can progress. I detailed the process above. Go read it.

1) you aren't the final word on the subject. Sorry if I take it with a grain of salt

2) You just re-stated the main point of what I said, and went off on some tangent!

[MikeO]

The Owners LOCKED-OUT the players in March. Now they they are gonna lose money as games are around the corner. So they can't rush the players into signing on to a new deal without giving the players a little time to double check everything.

The players (also their lawyers, agents..etc) should do what they need to. Read the whole deal over, cover to cover, make sure it has everything to there liking and no last mintue games were played and stuff was put in without their knowing. No monkey business took place.  If something isn't to their liking, go back into talks and hash out the little details. If that takes a day, or two, or a week, or more. SO BE IT!!

The owners started this mess, they can't rush it now at the end when they have had since March to figure this out. Hopefully it gets done in the next couple days, but if it takes longer. At this point, so be it!

[fyo]

Mike, you've insisted from the beginning that the players would "win" and owners "lose". You've taken every scrap of information that could further your point and gone with it, while completely ignoring the mountain of evidence to the contrary. That's your MO, so I'm not surprised. I'm also not going to argue it with you, since you NEVER admit that you are wrong, even when it is *proven*.

[MikeO]

Mike, you've insisted from the beginning that the players would "win" and owners "lose". You've taken every scrap of information that could further your point and gone with it, while completely ignoring the mountain of evidence to the contrary. That's your MO, so I'm not surprised. I'm also not going to argue it with you, since you NEVER admit that you are wrong, even when it is *proven*.

What evidence is going against me? Not one bit. The players have won from all the reports of the  details that have come out! When you stack up what little they gave up and what they have gained. Even down to the minor stuff they have won. Now its just come down to crossing the T's and dotting the I's and making sure the owners aren't pulling a fast one by trying to sneak stuff in.

Spin it all ya want, the players won! I wouldn't argue this wtih me either .And I'm not here trying to convince you that im right. Believe what you want, live in whatever reality you want.

[fyo]

What evidence is going against me? Not one bit.

The players will get a smaller percentage of the money from the new CBA than the old.

Simple as that.

Do you dispute this?

[MikeO]

yes!

But why go in circles. You aren't changing my mind. I'm not changing yours.

[fyo]

yes!

So if you admit that the players are getting less money, clearly you were wrong when saying there was "not one bit" of evidence pointing to the players not being the "winners".

Anyway, someone needs to explain something to me -- and I mean this quite sincerely:

Why do/should the owners care if two-a-days are outlawed? As long as its the same for all teams and there's no threat of a substantially worse "product" (which would hurt revenue and thus both sides about the same, since revenues are fairly evenly split), I don't see that it makes the slightest bit of difference to the owners. Quite the opposite, I'd expect owners to generally be in favor of anything that reduces injury risk to their precious commodities...

[MikeO]

I said "YES" I dispute what you are saying.

Like i  said, believe what you want. I'm not here to change your mind.

[fyo]

I said "YES" I dispute what you are saying.

Then you're just delusional. EVERY media outlet is reporting that the players are getting less money (and the percentages clearly show this) -- and progressively less (compared to the old CBA) the higher the revenue.

They used to get 60% after $1B was taken off the top. At $9.2B, that's $4.9B for the players.

The new deal gives them less than 50% of the total. At $9.2B, that's less than $4.6B for the players.

(Estimates range from 46.5% to 48%. It's somewhat more complicated than a straight percentage.)

If total revenue increases 50%, the players would have gotten: (9.2*1.5 - 1) * 0.6 = $7.7B under the old CBA.

With the new CBA, the players would get about: (9.2*1.5)*0.5 = $6.9B.

[MikeO]

for someone who didn't want to argue with me you are doing a poor job! Let it go man. We disagree. Move on!

There is more to it than the "numbers"  you are throwing out. You are ignoring a lot of things tha also come into play. But I'm not gonna go in circles with you.  Believe what you want. I will believe what I want. And thats it.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

I am locking this up.  It is not about CBA anymore.  It is just a pissing contest between MikeO and FYO.