Does anyone miss the NBA?

[raptorsfan29]

looks like games up until the end of November are cancelled

[EKnight]

I miss the NBA- the REAL NBA- Bird, Magic, Michael, Barkley as a 76er, the Pistons Bad Boys, Dominique jumping out of the gym... not this garbage that's on now. I have to admit, I smiled inside a little when the Heat got beat by Dallas. I can't imagine Bird or Magic ever "teaming up" to bully the rest of the league- the whole point of competition is to prove you're better than the other guy, not to team up with him and kill everyone else. -EK

[Sunstroke]

...I have to admit, I smiled inside a little when the Heat got beat by Dallas. I can't imagine Bird or Magic ever "teaming up" to bully the rest of the league- the whole point of competition is to prove you're better than the other guy, not to team up with him and kill everyone else. -EK

So, can we also assume that you cheered for the Lakers to lose when Shaq teamed up with Kobe? Same for the league-facilitated heist trade to give Kobe an "in his prime" Pau Gasol? I'm sure you raised holy hell when Boston teamed up Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, or when San Antonio tanked an entire season so they could team up David Robinson with Tim Duncan.

Or is it just easier to jump on a Hater bandwagon when there's lots of company?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[mecadonzilla]

So, can we also assume that you cheered for the Lakers to lose when Shaq teamed up with Kobe? Same for the league-facilitated heist trade to give Kobe an "in his prime" Pau Gasol? I'm sure you raised holy hell when Boston teamed up Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, or when San Antonio tanked an entire season so they could team up David Robinson with Tim Duncan.

Or is it just easier to jump on a Hater bandwagon when there's lots of company?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Quitness couldn't be the man on his own team and succeed.  He knew he had to go to Miami where he wouldn't have to be the man because he's gutless and proved it June.

[Dave Gray]

Nobody is the man on their own.  He took a last place team to the finals on his own and got beat.  I think that's better than most anyone else.

[EKnight]

So, can we also assume that you cheered for the Lakers to lose when Shaq teamed up with Kobe? Same for the league-facilitated heist trade to give Kobe an "in his prime" Pau Gasol? I'm sure you raised holy hell when Boston teamed up Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, or when San Antonio tanked an entire season so they could team up David Robinson with Tim Duncan.

Or is it just easier to jump on a Hater bandwagon when there's lots of company?

Inquiring minds want to know!

I stopped watching altogether BECAUSE of what Boston did. I grew up on a Celtics team that won because they had a bunch of average guys around Larry Bird, who he made look better than they were, and who worked their asses off to win. ANY combination of "big 3's" is colusion and BS in my book. Does that satisfy your inquiring mind? I went from the BIGGEST Celtic homer to being disgusted by the way they bought their title. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

So, can we also assume that you cheered for the Lakers to lose when Shaq teamed up with Kobe?

Kobe was drafted June 26, 1996.
Shaq signed with L.A. July 18, 1996.

If you categorize Shaq's signing with the Lakers as "teaming up" with a 17-year-old that had yet to play a single game in the NBA, then I guess that's a fair comparison to the Heat?

[Landshark]

I have to agree with EK.  I don't like this collusion of players at all. 

Magic Johnson once said that when he began training for every season, he would look for ways to beat Larry Bird, not join him.

[mecadonzilla]

Nobody is the man on their own.  He took a last place team to the finals on his own and got beat.  I think that's better than most anyone else.

I cannot recall another player off hand who left the team where he was the SuperStar to play 2nd fiddle to another.

Quitness shrinks when it matters most.  He's never faced any hardship in his entire life and it shows.

[Spider-Dan]

I cannot recall another player off hand who left the team where he was the SuperStar to play 2nd fiddle to another.

Offhand:

Clyde Drexler
Charles Barkley
Dikembe Mutombo
Shaq (either with MIA or PHX, depending on how you interpret it)
Karl Malone
Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen (pick one, or both)
Jason Kidd

I think it's fair to say that all of these players are (potential) Hall of Famers.

[mecadonzilla]

Offhand:

Clyde Drexler
Charles Barkley
Dikembe Mutombo
Shaq (either with MIA or PHX, depending on how you interpret it)
Karl Malone
Kevin Garnett/Ray Allen (pick one, or both)
Jason Kidd

I think it's fair to say that all of these players are (potential) Hall of Famers.

Clyde Drexler, Chuck Barkley, Karl Malone were all at the end of their careers when they left.  They were trying anything possible to win a ring.  Dikembe Mutombo was never a star of any kind.  Kevin Garnett & Ray Allen played several years for a loser franchise and never sniffed a championship and welcomed leaving those teams after years of futility.  Jason Kidd needed to go where there was a scorer because no one ever brought one to him.  Plus, he was often used as trade bait.  Shaq on the other hand forced is way out of Orlando to be the undisputed king of the Laker franchise.  Only in his final years on his last legs did he migrate to other teams.

Quitness played a few years for a loser franchise, turned it around, and the team gave him everything he could want...and it still wasn't enough.  He made the Cavs a competitive team with his undeniable talent, but lacked the fortitude to see it through.  The Princess does not understand hard work, determination, or sacrifice.  If he ever wins a ring it will be on the coattails of another player.  He is only mentally strong enough to be a second banana, and it showed dramatically in the Finals.

[Spider-Dan]

Clyde Drexler, Chuck Barkley, Karl Malone were all at the end of their careers when they left.  They were trying anything possible to win a ring.

Still, you can't argue that they left teams where they were the #1 star to play second-fiddle on another man's team.

Dikembe Mutombo was never a star of any kind.

Mutombo is an eight-time All Star and 4x Defensive Player of the Year.  If Dwight Howard qualifies as a superstar today, Mutombo was a superstar back then.

Kevin Garnett & Ray Allen played several years for a loser franchise and never sniffed a championship and welcomed leaving those teams after years of futility.

Are you saying that the Cleveland Cavaliers are a significantly better franchise than the Timberwolves or the Sonics?  Did Minnesota not do as much for KG as Cleveland did for LeBron?

If you are going to give Garnett and Allen a pass, this entire argument is moot.  Boston laid the blueprint for conspiracies to team up and get a ring (I would give the '04 Lakers credit for that, but like the '10 Heat, they failed to get the job done).

Jason Kidd needed to go where there was a scorer because no one ever brought one to him.

You mean like Vince Carter?

I thought you were just exaggerating for effect, but if you seriously believe that LeBron is the first NBA player to commit this egregious crime of teaming up with his rivals, that's just crazy.

[mecadonzilla]

Still, you can't argue that they left teams where they were the star to play second-fiddle on another man's team.

Still, not one of them was in their prime or even a star when they left.  They were stars in name only if at all.    They were willing to put their ego aside for championship potential.

Mutombo is an eight-time All Star and 4x Defensive Player of the Year.  If Dwight Howard qualifies as a superstar today, Mutombo was a superstar back then.

Mutombo was only a defensive player and never considered anything more than a defensive stopper.  He was also never "The Man" on his team.

Are you saying that the Cleveland Cavaliers are a significantly better franchise than the Timberwolves or the Sonics?  Did Minnesota not do as much for KG as Cleveland did for LeBron?

No, the T-Wolves and Sonics didn't.  Garnett played for quite some time in Minnesota before the team was so horrible they were force to trade him to get better.  Also, Ray Allen was never a star.  He was just a good scorer, which apparently makes him a super star in your books.

I thought you were just exaggerating for effect, but if you seriously believe that LeBron is the first NBA player to commit this egregious crime of teaming up with his rivals, that's just crazy.

He's the first player of his supposed stature to do this I can think of.  He's supposedly one of the greatest basketball players of all time and he'd rather play second fiddle.  Can you see any other greats of their eras doing that?  Your points are easily dismissed and knocked out to half court.  I should shake my finger at you like Dikembe did. 

Jason Kidd's game is to be the 2nd fiddle.  He was never more than a facilitator for another player.  He would be the first to tell you that.

[Spider-Dan]

Mutombo was only a defensive player and never considered anything more than a defensive stopper.  He was also never "The Man" on his team.

Who was "the man" on Mutombo's Nuggets and Hawks teams?  Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf?  Dale Ellis?  Christian Laettner? Isaiah Rider?

If you think Mutombo is a nobody, these guys rate as sub-nobody.

No, the T-Wolves and Sonics didn't.  Garnett played for quite some time in Minnesota before the team was so horrible they were force to trade him to get better.  Also, Ray Allen was never a star.  He was just a good scorer, which apparently makes him a super star in your books.

Agreed that the Sonics did virtually nothing for Allen's entire time there.  Minnesota's front office put about as much food on KG's plate as the Cavs did for LBJ; they brought in Sprewell and Cassell in '03.

Ray Allen compares favorably to Reggie Miller and is one of the best shooters in the history of the game; he is the career 3PT leader and has three of the top five performances of 3PTs made in a single postseason.  I'm not sure why you think he's a scrub or something.

He's the first player of his supposed stature to do this I can think of.  He's supposedly one of the greatest basketball players of all time and he'd rather play second fiddle.  Can you see any other greats of their eras doing that?

Most of the other greats were pure scorers, and simply needed to be surrounded with role players to do the other stuff.  The most glaring exception is Magic Johnson... who happened to be drafted by a team that already had the man who would be the NBA's all-time leading scorer.  If LBJ had the fortune to be drafted by a team that already had a dominant scorer, I doubt he would have needed to leave.

Jason Kidd's game is to be the 2nd fiddle.  He was never more than a facilitator for another player.

Why can't LBJ be a Magic-style facilitator?  Why must he be a failure if he's not a Jordan- or Bird-style scorer?

[Thundergod]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, this argument again? They're old, tired and recycled words... now get over it. This isn't the first time its happened.

So, can we also assume that you cheered for the Lakers to lose when Shaq teamed up with Kobe? Same for the league-facilitated heist trade to give Kobe an "in his prime" Pau Gasol? I'm sure you raised holy hell when Boston teamed up Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen, or when San Antonio tanked an entire season so they could team up David Robinson with Tim Duncan.

Or is it just easier to jump on a Hater bandwagon when there's lots of company?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Bless you, sir.