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Author Topic: Tim Tebow is garbage.  (Read 137170 times)
EKnight
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« Reply #180 on: December 04, 2011, 05:52:50 pm »

Important stats? The ONLY stat that matters is wins and losses. I'll take 6-1 over the fantasy football BS stats that everyone else is in love with. After a 1-4 start, the team is likely going to win the divison and make the playoffs. They are the exact same team in every single aspect since them except for 2 things: 1) they traded away their best WR, which hould have hurt them, and 2) they are starting Tebow. I'm sure the turn around is all coincidence. 4 come from behind wins, with what- three of them on the road? All the result of everyone ELSE on the field. Tebow with a higher QB rating than Rivers when they played eachother- also, somehow, everyone ELSE's doing. If he sucks so bad, and everyone knows what his "one trick" is, then how come he keeps torching people in the fourth quarter? It doesn't even seem to surprise the announcers anymore- they EXPECT it. Expectations of great play= greatness. But keep hatin. -EK
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bsmooth
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« Reply #181 on: December 04, 2011, 06:13:12 pm »

Important stats? The ONLY stat that matters is wins and losses. I'll take 6-1 over the fantasy football BS stats that everyone else is in love with. After a 1-4 start, the team is likely going to win the divison and make the playoffs. They are the exact same team in every single aspect since them except for 2 things: 1) they traded away their best WR, which hould have hurt them, and 2) they are starting Tebow. I'm sure the turn around is all coincidence. 4 come from behind wins, with what- three of them on the road? All the result of everyone ELSE on the field. Tebow with a higher QB rating than Rivers when they played eachother- also, somehow, everyone ELSE's doing. If he sucks so bad, and everyone knows what his "one trick" is, then how come he keeps torching people in the fourth quarter? It doesn't even seem to surprise the announcers anymore- they EXPECT it. Expectations of great play= greatness. But keep hatin. -EK
Those are not fantasy stats, they are facts. They represent the third thing that is different from Orting, but of course you have to shoot them down because it deflates your whole theory it is only because of Tebow period.
Torching? You mean his top receiver being left wide open for three passes of 40 yds or more? Two of those come from behind wins are directly related to the defense's play. The pick 6 against the Jets was a game changer, and the same with both interception today. One allowed them to go into half time down 15-7 as opposed to 15-0, and the last interception was returned so deep into Vikings territory, that it allowed the offense to get into field goal range with seconds left.
For the record Tebow was only 6 for 8 in the second half, but due to the fact the Vikings forgot to cover Thomas( who is developing into a very good receiver) Tebow got a ton of yards.
Now that the Bears are depleted on offense, I expect the Broncos to be able to shut them down at home.
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EKnight
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« Reply #182 on: December 04, 2011, 06:18:15 pm »

I'm not saying it's only because of Tebow. I'm saying the same thing that I've said since day one in this thread- Tebow is a winner. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. He hasn't single-handedly won any games, but there is SOMETHING that he is doing that the entire team is responding to better than any QB in Denver since Elway. The title of this thread is "Tim Tebow is garbage." Complete BS. The guy is 6-1. Dance around that however you want. He's NOT a loser, NOT garbage, and the amount of hate you keep throwing his way is starting to make you look a little foolish in light of the fact that he keeps winning. -EK
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bsmooth
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« Reply #183 on: December 04, 2011, 06:22:09 pm »

I'm not saying it's only because of Tebow. I'm saying the same thing that I've said since day one in this thread- Tebow is a winner. Anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot. He hasn't single-handedly won any games, but there is SOMETHING that he is doing that the entire team is responding to better than any QB in Denver since Elway. The title of this thread is "Tim Tebow is garbage." Complete BS. The guy is 6-1. Dance around that however you want. He's NOT a loser, NOT garbage, and the amount of hate you keep throwing his way is starting to make you look a little foolish in light of the fact that he keeps winning. -EK

I never called him a loser, or garbage. I said he is a running back with a decent arm. His college coach said if you surround him with the right talent, Tebow will win, as he was surrounded by talent at Florida.
He has a very good rb, Thomas is going to as good if not better than Lloyd. He is also benefiting from a defense that is gelling.
My problem is that Tebow is getting all the accolades for a win streak that is clearly a team effort. His teammates may have confidence in him, but they are winning as a team period.
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MikeO
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« Reply #184 on: December 04, 2011, 09:38:06 pm »

The Tebow jock sniffing by some really is funny.

I don't bash the guy, he wins and that counts for something. But the way some go overboard defending him and praising him is funny.

Jock Sniffing at it's finest!
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bsmooth
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« Reply #185 on: December 04, 2011, 09:55:55 pm »

The Tebow jock sniffing by some really is funny.

I don't bash the guy, he wins and that counts for something. But the way some go overboard defending him and praising him is funny.

Jock Sniffing at it's finest!

I cannot deny his team is winning. But I see it as more of a team achievement and not because of an individual.
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MikeO
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« Reply #186 on: December 04, 2011, 09:58:49 pm »

I cannot deny his team is winning. But I see it as more of a team achievement and not because of an individual.

And that's a fair point I can't disagree with. I don't love or hate Tebow. I give him more credit than most probably but I see you're point and can't knock it. I just find the people who "praise" him and reject anything bad people say about his ability, that they go way over the top and I find it funny. That's all.

Tebow belongs in the NFL and is earning his stripes this year. But the over the top love-fest some heap upon him is just tough to take.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #187 on: December 05, 2011, 12:25:45 am »

A "decent" passing day? He had a qb rating of 149.3. That's a little more than decent.
He passed the ball 15 times.  Passer rating is not a useful tool when a QB barely even throws the ball.

LaDainian Tomlinson has a career passer rating of 146.9.  Does this mean he was secretly the best quarterback to ever play the game, and just happened to play the wrong position?  No.  It means he's thrown 12 passes in his career and 7 of them were touchdowns.

Here is the current passer statistics page on NFL.com.  You will notice that while Matt Moore and Tim Tebow both became starters on their team's 5th game, Moore is listed and Tebow is not.  That's because Tebow doesn't meet the minimum attempt qualifiers.

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There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter."
There are at least 31 RBs in the NFL that wish they could say, "We have won every game I have started."  That doesn't mean that Ryan Grant is the best tailback in the league.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #188 on: December 05, 2011, 10:49:07 am »

There's 30 other QB's in the NFL right now that wish they could say, "I've only lost one game this year as a starter." -EK

I think it might be more than 30.  Granted a few of them are injured or benched. 
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EKnight
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« Reply #189 on: December 05, 2011, 10:58:41 am »

Spider- no one, least of all me, ever claimed he was the best qb in the league. Where do you come up with your debate points? Did you subscribe to the MikeO theory of all or nothing extremes? I digress; comparing Tebow to Moore when one is 6-1 and beat the other head to head, and the other is 4-3 doesn't really help your argument. How is it that when I point out that the guy is a winner- he's won at every level, done everything asked of him by his coaches and team mates, and admit that he has rallied his entire team to play better- that somehow you interpret that as "Tebow is the best qb in football."? -EK
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #190 on: December 05, 2011, 11:02:57 am »

Quarterbacks don't play head-to-head.  Tebow played extremely poorly in the Miami game.  The Broncos won in spite of what Tebow did in that game.

Tebow has improved.  I'll give you that.  But his play is not the leading factor in what's causing the team turnaround.  In fact, many people believe that Tebow's play is a hindrance.  There's some "magic" (that Tebow deserves credit for) in that he's able to hang in there and not lose the game for them until that point, though (mostly because they don't let him throw very much.)

Those that don't believe in Tebow think that this strategy of having a QB who's will throw as little as possible, because he doesn't have the passing skill is a failing long-term strategy.  I am one of those people.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #191 on: December 05, 2011, 12:23:17 pm »

Spider- no one, least of all me, ever claimed he was the best qb in the league.
You said that there are 30 other QBs that wish they had his record.  What, exactly, was your point in mentioning this?

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I digress; comparing Tebow to Moore when one is 6-1 and beat the other head to head, and the other is 4-3 doesn't really help your argument.
Funny that you say that, because while you can compare the record of their teams, Tebow hasn't even passed the ball enough to qualify for the NFL's passer statistics page.  That was the entire point of my comparison; not that Tebow is better than a QB who got cut from a 2-14 team (?!), but that another QB who has started just as many games has met the minimum attempt qualifiers, while Tebow has not.

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How is it that when I point out that the guy is a winner- he's won at every level, done everything asked of him by his coaches and team mates, and admit that he has rallied his entire team to play better- that somehow you interpret that as "Tebow is the best qb in football."?
When you say that 30 other starting QBs wish they were doing as well as him, it sure sounds like you're saying he's a top 2 QB.
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EKnight
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« Reply #192 on: December 05, 2011, 12:58:32 pm »

Then you've missed every other post I put int his thread. I've said throughout the entire thread that he is good, not great, and that I was disagreeing with the fundamental premise of the thread: "Tim Tebow is garbage." Insofar as your repeated argument that he doesn't have enough passing attempts to qualify for a QB rating, that's funny, since, on his player page, his rating is clearly 87.9. While you're wrappng your head around that, keep in mind that part of the reason he's not in the NFL "total" list is because he doesn't pass frequently. The other part is that he's only played in 7 games+ one quarter. If he played the entire season- even with his limited attempts- he would qualify. For the record, 87.9 puts him at about #10 overall. That's about where, IMO, he stands. -EK
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #193 on: December 05, 2011, 02:08:05 pm »

Then you've missed every other post I put int his thread. I've said throughout the entire thread that he is good, not great, and that I was disagreeing with the fundamental premise of the thread: "Tim Tebow is garbage."
Don't insist that you aren't declaring Tebow a top QB in the league one post after you say 30 other QBs envy his record.

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Insofar as your repeated argument that he doesn't have enough passing attempts to qualify for a QB rating, that's funny, since, on his player page, his rating is clearly 87.9.
Yes, in exactly the same sense that on Ronnie Brown's player page, his career passer rating is clearly 91.3.  The NFL's player pages show your passer rating with no minimum qualifiers.

In any case, I never said he didn't qualify for a passer rating; you can calculate a passer rating on one attempt.  I said he didn't meet the minimum qualifiers for the NFL's passing statistics page, and he doesn't.

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While you're wrappng your head around that, keep in mind that part of the reason he's not in the NFL "total" list is because he doesn't pass frequently.
Um, yes.  That's the entire point: he's a quarterback that doesn't pass frequently, which is why you see people criticizing him.

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The other part is that he's only played in 7 games+ one quarter.  If he played the entire season- even with his limited attempts- he would qualify.
If number of games played is the issue, please explain why Moore is on the page and Tebow is not.

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For the record, 87.9 puts him at about #10 overall.
Well, yes, when you eliminate minimum qualifiers, lots of people get on the list.  Chase Daniel has a passer rating of 104.3, good for 4th in the league.  Shaun Hill has a rating of 103.5.  Hell, Ray Rice has a rating of 118.7.

Minimum qualifiers are there for a reason.
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EKnight
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« Reply #194 on: December 05, 2011, 02:47:12 pm »

Spider, you go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe. I have stated repeatedly throughout this thread- seriously like a half dozen times- that I don't think he's elite or great, but that I think he is a winner and every single one of my posts is only to affirm that, and that no, he doesn't suck, and no, he's not garbage. I actually said- perhaps you missed it or you just want to hear yourself talk- that he is "at about #10 overall. That's about where, IMO, he stands." Why did I mention that there are 30 other QBs who would love his record? Because my point is about winning. That's it. Not how often he throws, not how ugly his motion is. Keep tearing the guy down if you want. I honestly don't care; he's not a friend, relative, or acquaintance. It just seems a little assanine to keep insisiting that week after week after week, when he has brought back his team to victory, what four or five times now, tha he sucks. His defense isn't what is throwing the ball, ugly as it may be. His defense isn't what is running 2pt point conversions in to tie or win games, when everybody in the entire stadium knows what's coming and still can't stop it. In fact, his defense gave up 30+ points this week, and he STILL led a comeback. If it was any other QB in the world, the haters would not say anything, but instead, they say, "Oh, he hasn't beaten anyone good," until he beat the Jets. Then, "Oh, it's because of the running game," until McGahee has 35 COMBINED YARDS in two games which he wins both of, and then, oh good grief, then it's "Oh, the defense carries him," and he wins when they give up 32 points. So, while everyone keeps hating on the guy, I'm pointing out that maybe- just maybe- he doesn't suck as much you all think he does. Food for thought. -EK
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