Tim Tebow is garbage.

[EKnight]

Tebow's off-the-field behavior created a significant public outcry for him to get an opportunity to play QB in the NFL,

Oh, now I get it. His off the field behavior. As opposed to a guy who shoots himself in the foot, runs a dog-fighting ring, kills a pedestrian via DUI, has 6 pounds of pot found in his house, is accused of raping a 16 year old in a bathroom. I didn't realize that Tebow's off the field behavior should preclude him from being an NFL starter, since it didn't preclude any of those guys. I can tell you this- how many parents had to sit their kids down and explain all of those other guys behaviors when they were role models? Somehow I don't see that happening with Tim. If that bothers you, or if him announcing his beliefs bothers you, that's a YOU problem, not a Tebow problem. -EK

[Cathal]

Tebow's off-the-field behavior created a significant public outcry for him to get an opportunity to play QB in the NFL, while Crouch did not enjoy such a luxury.

I think I'll have to disagree with that. His past successes in college football probably created the huge public desire to see him play. If he sucked and was a good Christian, I don't think people would have wanted him over Brady Quinn.

[Landshark]

I think I'll have to disagree with that. His past successes in college football probably created the huge public desire to see him play. If he sucked and was a good Christian, I don't think people would have wanted him over Brady Quinn.

And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.

[CF DolFan]

And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.

Are you saying Eric Crouch came with the same fanfare as Tebow? I don't think you are but did want to clarify. 

Right or wrong Tebow has been argued to be the best college player ever. That's "ever" and not just over a year. I'm not saying he is the best ever but he has been in those conversations with some of the best football minds in the country. That alone puts him way ahead of 99% of any other college athlete who was very good. That alone puts him in a completely separate class than Crouch.

Take away his religion and you still have a good looking, all-american, well spoken, accomplished role model. that isn't easy to find and people will support that. In fact I'd say many people are desperate to find that. Now add in the people who follow him just because he is a Christian and you get what you have now.

[Cathal]

And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.

I don't even know who Eric Crouch is. Did he have the following that Tebow did all across the nation? I'm asking, I don't know.

[EKnight]

And Eric Crouch wasn't successful?  If I recall correctly, he won the Heisman Trophy.

Seriously? There is NO comparison between Crouch and Tebow's NCAA career. Not a knock on Crouch, but he was not in the same league as Tebow in college.
Crouch:
2001 Heisman Trophy
2001 Davey O'Brien Award
2001 Walter Camp Award
2001 Big 12 Conference offensive player of the year
2000 Fiesta Bowl Offensive MVP vs. Tennessee
One of three quarterbacks in Division 1-A history to rush for 3,000 and pass for 4,000 yards in a career
13th player in NCAA to rush and pass for 1,000 in a season (1,115 rushing, 1,510 passing)
Nebraska career total offense leader with 7,915 yards
Tebow:
2007 season
Davey O'Brien Award winner
Heisman Trophy winner
Maxwell Award winner
Sporting News Player of the Year
Harley Award winner
NCAA QB of the Year
Rivals.com National Offensive Player of the Year
Associated Press Player of the Year
First-team All-American by: Associated Press, Football Writers Association of America, Walter Camp Football Foundation, Sporting News, Sports Illustrated, ESPN, CBS Sports, College Football News, Rivals.com, and Scout.com
2008 season
First-team All-America by College Football News.
Manning Award winner
Maxwell Award winner
2008 SEC Championship Game Most Valuable Player
Wuerffel Trophy winner
2009 season
Southeastern Conference Offensive Player of the Year
Sugar Bowl Most Outstanding Player
Sports Illustrated College football Player of the Decade

Only player in NCAA history to pass and rush for 20 TD’s each in one season.

The guy was named "Player of the Decade." Crouch was a good player, and a Heisman winner, Tebow's name has come up in discussions of the "greatest college player of all time"- and people still believe he shouldn't play in the NFL. Crouch wasn't even the best player in his school's history. You can't make that comparison. It's ridiculous. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

Oh, now I get it. His off the field behavior. As opposed to a guy who shoots himself in the foot, runs a dog-fighting ring, kills a pedestrian via DUI, has 6 pounds of pot found in his house, is accused of raping a 16 year old in a bathroom. I didn't realize that Tebow's off the field behavior should preclude him from being an NFL starter, since it didn't preclude any of those guys.

You've got it exactly backwards.

Those guys, who had negative off-the-field issues, got to play anyway because of football ability.  There was no public outcry to let Plaxico Burress or Michael Vick play; they beat out their competition and earned a starting spot with their play, fair and square.

In total contrast, Tebow (who was a 3rd-stringer based on his play) got an opportunity to start because he is such a nice guy and outwardly devout Christian.  These are not football attributes.

[Spider-Dan]

I think I'll have to disagree with that. His past successes in college football probably created the huge public desire to see him play. If he sucked and was a good Christian, I don't think people would have wanted him over Brady Quinn.

I don't remember Jason White or Ken Dorsey having a media typhoon over whether or not they would have a chance to start.

Tebow is one of many college-style QBs with a great college career.  He is, significantly, one of the most outspoken and visible athletes when it comes to his religion.  Seems to me that that is the main difference.

[Spider-Dan]

Right or wrong Tebow has been argued to be the best college player ever. That's "ever" and not just over a year. I'm not saying he is the best ever but he has been in those conversations with some of the best football minds in the country. That alone puts him way ahead of 99% of any other college athlete who was very good. That alone puts him in a completely separate class than Crouch.

As a college player, maybe.  But there are plenty of great college QB (especially QBs) that are immediately dismissed at the NFL level.

Take away his religion and you still have a good looking, all-american, well spoken, accomplished role model.

Just like Jason White or Eric Crouch.

[Cathal]

I don't remember Jason White or Ken Dorsey having a media typhoon over whether or not they would have a chance to start.

I don't follow college ball as you guys do, so these names don't mean anything to me. Maybe that is good evidence to support my claim that Tebow has such a huge following that people want to see him play. I'm not a college football fan, a Christian, nor a UF fan; heck, I hardly ever watched Tebow play. Even I wanted to see what the guy would do because it did have such great success in college and because of all of the detractors saying he wouldn't amount to anything. He may still not amount to anything, but when you're team is 1-4 (or whatever Orton left it at), you want change, and so there was an outcry for a legendary college QB to play. I don't think religion has anything to do with it for the majority of people, as I'm sure there are a few people who want him to play just because of his religion.

[EKnight]

You've got it exactly backwards.

Those guys, who had negative off-the-field issues, got to play anyway because of football ability.  There was no public outcry to let Plaxico Burress or Michael Vick play; they beat out their competition and earned a starting spot with their play, fair and square.

In total contrast, Tebow (who was a 3rd-stringer based on his play) got an opportunity to start because he is such a nice guy and outwardly devout Christian.  These are not football attributes.

You missed my point so badly you actually just proved it. I realize that he gained a spot more for his clean cut wholesomeness than his play. I don't have a problem with that. In fact, I AGREE with it. I'd rather have my kids watching him than any of those other guys. There IS actually a world outside of football, and no matter how much you keep bitching about him, the team was 1-4 before he started and is 6-1 since. That's enough to earn his spot. He also wasn't a third-string QB. The Broncos official depth chart to start the season was Tebow at 2 and Quinn at 3. Why do you suppose Tebow was brought in to finish the Chargers game? Stop with the number three stuff. It's incorrect. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

There IS actually a world outside of football, and no matter how much you keep bitching about him, the team was 1-4 before he started and is 6-1 since. That's enough to earn his spot.

So he earned his chance to start... with his record after starting?  That's circular logic.  Why was he given the start over Quinn in the first place?

Furthermore, every time you talk about what a great role model he is, you simply reinforce why people dislike Tebow: he is given football priority for non-football reasons.  If I wanted to see a league full of outstanding citizens, I'd go watch a charity benefit.

He also wasn't a third-string QB. The Broncos official depth chart to start the season was Tebow at 2 and Quinn at 3.

Um, no, it was not.

The last official depth chart with a clearly delineated #2 and #3 was Quinn at 2, Tebow at 3.  Tebow was demoted to third-string during the preseason and Quinn maintained that position for the rest of the preseason.  Quinn played the entire first half of DEN's final preseason game.

After the season started, Fox tried to avoid the controversy by listing the second-string QB as "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow."  If that's not an example of pandering, I don't know what is.

So, officially, the last depth chart position that Tebow had "sole possession" of (before being named the starter) was third-stringer, prior to management making a mockery of the concept of a depth chart.  He went from third-string to I-don't-know-string to starter.  How often does that happen?

[EKnight]

Are you arguing now just to hear yourself speak? You're completely wrong. How else do you want to hear it? He earned his spot to start by virtue of the fact that the depth chart- no matter what you want to believe- had both he and Quinn as number two. It literally read, "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow." Not whatever you think you saw. Here's a link- go argue with the Broncos, not me. This was posted Sept. 6th; so unless they sent out another roster in the next six days before the season started, you're wrong. http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-broncos/2011/9/6/2407710/tim-tebow-brady-quinn-denver-broncos-quarterback-backups
Here's another, just so you don't think I cherry-picked. It's from the day after the opener, and notes, "Who do you think should be the Broncos' starting quarterback: Orton, Tebow or forgotten man Brady Quinn, the former Cleveland Brown who is listed with Tebow as the No. 2 QB on Denver's depth chart?" No, I guess they didn't change it, and Tebow started the season at number two. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2011/09/should-tim-tebow-be-the-denver-broncos-starting-qb-poll.html

Apparently it's not as big an issue as you think it is, either, because later Quinn and Orton were in the same boat: http://www.opposingviews.com/i/sports/nfl/broncos/broncos-list-kyle-orton-brady-quinn-co-no-2-quarterbacks

Next point- he earned his spot by being number two; he kept it by the 6-1 record. That doesn't need further explanation.

Both CF and I pointed out that Tebow also earned the right to play in the NFL based on his stellar college career, which somehow you twisted into a comparison to Crouch. Pointing out that there are plenty of college QB's who are dismissed is a totally valid point on your part. Trying to point out that someone considered one of the greatest college players at any position all-time, should be dismissed is laughable. Just stop. -EK

[Spider-Dan]

It would help if you actually read my posts before replying, as I already addressed the "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow" debacle.  The last depth chart position that Tebow had sole possession of was third-string.  This is fact.  Having two second-string QBs is as nonsensical as having two QBs listed as starters; it was pandering, no more and no less.

As for Tebow earning the right to play based on his college career, the entire point of mentioning Eric Crouch, Jason White, etc. is that your college career does not entitle you to a damn thing in the NFL.  Crouch and White were great college QBs; certainly better than Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, or Aaron Rodgers.   Obviously, that meant nothing when it came to getting a chance to play QB in the NFL.  But for Tebow, things are different.

[EKnight]

It would help if you actually read my posts before replying, as I already addressed the "Brady Quinn or Tim Tebow" debacle.  The last depth chart position that Tebow had sole possession of was third-string.  This is fact.  Having two second-string QBs is as nonsensical as having two QBs listed as starters; it was pandering, no more and no less.

As for Tebow earning the right to play based on his college career, the entire point of mentioning Eric Crouch, Jason White, etc. is that your college career does not entitle you to a damn thing in the NFL.  Crouch and White were great college QBs; certainly better than Philip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Alex Smith, or Aaron Rodgers.   Obviously, that meant nothing when it came to getting a chance to play QB in the NFL.  But for Tebow, things are different.

It doesn't entitle you to a damn thing? DUMBEST statement EVER. It entitled him to be drafted in the first round, which carries an expectation of starting at some point. Love to hear your rebuttal on that. -EK