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Author Topic: Tim Tebow is garbage.  (Read 137165 times)
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #240 on: December 08, 2011, 03:42:52 pm »

What, precisely, did a great college career entitle Eric Crouch to?  His college career was indisputably better than Rodgers, Rivers, Sanchez, or a host of other first-round draftees.  How about Josh Heupel?  He also had a great college career.  What was he entitled to?

Gino Torretta was an amazing college QB (he is in the College Football Hall of Fame).  For all his college achievement, he got to play in exactly one regular-season NFL game (three years after being drafted in the 7th round) and immediately threw a game-winning 32-yard TD pass.  Then he sat on the bench for another year before retiring.  What was he entitled to?

The primary difference between Tebow and all of the other great college QBs I named is not that they weren't good enough in college; many worse college QBs were handed starting jobs in the NFL.  The difference is that while all of those great college QBs (including Tebow) were declared unfit for pro-style football, only Tebow had an army of supporters clamoring for him to play.  And it's not like Crouch, White, Heupel, Torretta, etc. were immoral thugs, either.

No, the difference is that Tebow has an army of supporters that backs him primarily because of his outspoken religious views.  And that's a crappy way to determine which players get an opportunity to play and which don't.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 03:56:13 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

EKnight
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« Reply #241 on: December 08, 2011, 03:51:16 pm »

NONE of those had better college careers than Tebow. Don't change the argument. Tebow is starting, in part, because of the fact that despite his horrendous delivery and limited "NFL-style" offense, his college achievements were enough for the Broncos to gamble on him. You keep saying how much he sucks and how his college career has nothing to do with his pro career, but that's hogwash. His college career- the things he accomplished in the NCAA- are what led him to be drafted (high) and led him to start. If he hadn't accomplished what he did at Florida, he wouldn't be where he is currently. The fact that he had a better college career than any of the guys you mentioned is only further evidence that he should be given a chance to start. How come all of your arguments seem to prove my points?? -EK
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 03:54:45 pm by EKnight » Logged
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #242 on: December 08, 2011, 04:08:14 pm »

EKnight, if your argument is that your success in college earns you a right to play in the NFL, please explain why Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert are first-year starters but Gino Torretta and Major Harris (two College Football Hall of Famers) never got a chance to start at all.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 04:12:02 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

EKnight
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« Reply #243 on: December 08, 2011, 04:21:01 pm »

EKnight, if your argument is that your success in college earns you a right to play in the NFL, please explain why Mark Sanchez and Blaine Gabbert are first-year starters but Gino Torretta and Major Harris (two College Football Hall of Famers) never got a chance to start at all.


Are you incapable of reading? How many times do I have to state this? We're not talking about an average college player, or even a Hall of Fame player. Tebow is considered with the greatest of all time college players. That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of literally hundreds of media writers. Just to be in that discussion puts him at a level above ANYONE you are going to mention. Keep Googling names if it makes you feel better, but you're flat wrong here. Being an average, good, or even outstanding college player doesn't guarantee you anything in the NFL. I'm not disputing that- I never did. Being one of the greatest college football players ever does. It's nonsense to say otherwise.

"No, the difference is that Tebow has an army of supporters that backs him primarily because of his outspoken religious views.  And that's a crappy way to determine which players get an opportunity to play and which don't."

This makes no sense. Players are constantly overlooked in the draft and not given as many opportunities on the field for negative behavior, so why shouldn't the opposite apply? If Vick had to ride the pine before he got a chance to play because of his off the field garbage, why shouldn't Tebow get an opportunity for his off the field positive influences? -EK
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 04:26:32 pm by EKnight » Logged
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #244 on: December 08, 2011, 05:14:35 pm »

Are you incapable of reading? How many times do I have to state this? We're not talking about an average college player, or even a Hall of Fame player. Tebow is considered with the greatest of all time college players.
For every media personality you can find that said Tebow is the greatest college player ever, I can find at least one that said that he has no business playing QB in the NFL.  Which seems kind of relevant to the discussion.

Quote
Being an average, good, or even outstanding college player doesn't guarantee you anything in the NFL. I'm not disputing that- I never did. Being one of the greatest college football players ever does. It's nonsense to say otherwise.
I think being a Hall of Famer qualifies you as one of the greatest ever.

It's amazing to me that you have somehow invented this new standard just to justify Tebow; a standard where merely being a College Football Hall of Fame-level player (merely!) means you deserve no special consideration, but once you reach some arbitrary super-HOF level, now you are entitled to a shot as a starter.

But rather than argue against the absurdity of the standard you have invented exclusively for Tim Tebow, I'll run with it.  As you already implied, Google makes this easy:

Tommie Frazier.

He's certainly in the debate for greatest college QB ever (he finished 13 slots above Tebow in this list), yet he went undrafted and never played a down in the NFL.  Surely, by your logic, such a legendary player and accomplished winner should have been entitled to a starting job in the NFL, just like Tebow, right?

Quote
Players are constantly overlooked in the draft and not given as many opportunities on the field for negative behavior, so why shouldn't the opposite apply?
Are you serious?

You honestly cannot see a difference between penalizing a player for poor conduct and promoting a player whose play has not merited such a change?  Do you think depth charts should be determined by who contributes most to the community?  Surely you are joking.

Did Brady Quinn mug an old lady?  Did he get busted trading meth for gay sex?  Why should Tebow leap him in the depth chart when Quinn was playing better?
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #245 on: December 08, 2011, 05:30:57 pm »

You really think that Tebow is playing because of his religion and not because in the opinion of the Denver coaching staff and GM gives the Denver the best chance to win games as opposed to Quinn/Orton (now released)?

Tebow is the starting QB for one reason and one reason alone.  In the opinion of John Fox and company Tebow give the Broncos the best chance to win game on Sunday. 

Based on the improved record of Denver since the change of QB's midseason, strongly suggests that that opinion is accurate. 

That doesn't mean Tebow is as good as Brady (Tom) but it does mean that in the opinion of the Broncos he is better than Brady (Quinn). 

Is Tebow a pro-bowl level QB?  Certainly not yet.  But he is good enough QB to start for the Broncos and is better than plenty of other QBs including Henne and Moore. 

Tebow's off the field behavior did not get him the job, just like Vick's didn't prevent him from getting a job in Philly. 
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #246 on: December 08, 2011, 05:52:30 pm »

You really think that Tebow is playing because of his religion and not because in the opinion of the Denver coaching staff and GM gives the Denver the best chance to win games as opposed to Quinn/Orton (now released)?
Not quite.  He's playing now because DEN has racked up some wins with him at QB, obviously.

I'm saying that the reason he even got a chance to start was because of the media circus surrounding him; a circus that was notably absent from many other great college football QBs that were also lacking pro-style skillsets.  And that media circus exists because Tebow is loud and proud about his religious beliefs.

The most ironic part of the whole scenario is that talking about Jesus effectively got Tebow a starting job that he otherwise wouldn't have had.  Divine providence?
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #247 on: December 08, 2011, 05:56:23 pm »

Not quite.  He's playing now because DEN has racked up some wins with him at QB, obviously.

I'm saying that the reason he even got a chance to start was because of the media circus surrounding him; a circus that was notably absent from many other great college football QBs that were also lacking pro-style skillsets.  And that media circus exists because Tebow is loud and proud about his religious beliefs.

The most ironic part of the whole scenario is that talking about Jesus effectively got Tebow a starting job that he otherwise wouldn't have had.  Divine providence?

The reason why he got to start was Orten sucked and he showed promise in the Denver parctices.  Or are you saying he would not have been drafted or even signed as an UDFA absent his relgious beliefs?

He got a shot in the NFL because he was decent in college. 
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #248 on: December 08, 2011, 06:13:33 pm »

The reason why he got to start was Orten sucked and he showed promise in the Denver parctices.
Everything I've seen said that Tebow was worse than Orton and Quinn at practice.  Here's one example.

Orton sucking explains his benching, but it doesn't explain Tebow leapfrogging a more experienced QB that's playing better in Quinn.  That's why I say Tebow owes his starting job to Jesus (which I'm sure he would agree with, if not for exactly the same reason).
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bsmooth
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« Reply #249 on: December 09, 2011, 01:00:00 am »

You really think that Tebow is playing because of his religion and not because in the opinion of the Denver coaching staff and GM gives the Denver the best chance to win games as opposed to Quinn/Orton (now released)?

Tebow is the starting QB for one reason and one reason alone.  In the opinion of John Fox and company Tebow give the Broncos the best chance to win game on Sunday. 

Based on the improved record of Denver since the change of QB's midseason, strongly suggests that that opinion is accurate. 

That doesn't mean Tebow is as good as Brady (Tom) but it does mean that in the opinion of the Broncos he is better than Brady (Quinn). 

Is Tebow a pro-bowl level QB?  Certainly not yet.  But he is good enough QB to start for the Broncos and is better than plenty of other QBs including Henne and Moore. 

Tebow's off the field behavior did not get him the job, just like Vick's didn't prevent him from getting a job in Philly. 


Once again with the false hype. The win streak is also in a large part to the improved play of the defense, especially against the weaker teams they have played. Now the Broncos get to face a Bears team gutted on offense by injuries, so I can see them winning even if the Bears defense keeps the Broncos bottles up.
Since their defeat against the lions, the Pats are going to be the only really challenging team they will face( unlike the much over-hyped Jets).
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bsmooth
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« Reply #250 on: December 09, 2011, 01:04:47 am »

I am just curious what would happen if there was a player so open in their devotion to another religion? Would there be such a positive up-welling of support for a player that got onto his knees and prayed to the East every time they had a good play?
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Tenshot13
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« Reply #251 on: December 09, 2011, 02:12:31 am »

My opinion on Tebow:

He was drafted high because he is considered one of, if not the greatest, college player of all time.

He got the chance to prove himself because he was drafted so high AND was a more recent high draft pick, even if he wasn't this regime's pick.  It's a "let's see what this guy can do because so much was invested in him" attitude.

He is the definition of a ball control offense.  That is stellar if you're defense is elite.  That is how Denver's defense has been lately. 

Lastly, Tebow is a motivator.  The guy is a natural leader.  He inspires his team.  Hell, he even inspired Dansby via the interview he had with Jim Rome, which yes, has to do with religion.

When he was at UF i was a big hater.  Now that he isn't there anymore, i could care less what he does.  In fact I find it hilarious that he upsets the haters AND that he makes people think he's really good.  He is definitely in the middle ground in the argument. 
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #252 on: December 09, 2011, 03:18:12 am »

Where is all this "Tebow is the greatest college player of all time" stuff coming from?  Is this a Florida thing?  I can't find any national publication that puts Tebow in the Herschel Walker/Jim Thorpe/Red Grange range.
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shamrock
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« Reply #253 on: December 09, 2011, 04:47:21 am »

Danny Wuerffel (Tebow's boyhood idol) had a stellar college career.He set nearly every collegiate passing record,won a national title,won the Heisman trophy,was a first round draft choice of the Saints,and was VERY outspoken on his Christian faith (maybe more than Tebow)and yet he had only a cup of coffee in the NFL.But he wasn't 6'3" and 240 lbs. and able to run over linemen like a tank,either.Tebow is starting in the NFL because of his size,athletic ability,and upside (someone in the Broncos orginization believes he can be taught to throw the ball better).
To quote NFL hall of famer Jack Youngblood,"He is a bigger,faster,more athletic version of Steve Young"
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Phishfan
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« Reply #254 on: December 09, 2011, 09:03:37 am »

Wuerfful wasn't a first round pick.
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