Team Branding - The new Marlins

[Dave Gray]

I was having a convo at Thanksgiving about baseball.

I'm excited for the new Marlins.  I don't get very invested in baseball, but I do get excited if a team I like (Marlins or Red Sox) makes the playoffs.  I'm a casual fan.  I enjoy going to regular season games, on occassion, but the atmosphere is just as important as (if not moreso than) the game itself.

I want to go see the new stadium.  I think that the new uniforms and logos (like them or hate them) do send a message that this is a new team.  The same with the (very transparent) attempt to bring in hispanic players and management.  I am excited to see the new stadium, including the gimmicks like the aquarium.

Being in marketing, I think I have a built in appreciation for a product as a whole.  I hear people say that as long as the team is good, the rest falls into place.  I don't believe that.

I went to FAU.  We had a good football team a couple of years ago.  ...won a bowl game -- the whole deal.  Those games that we were winning, weren't a good experience.  The stadium didn't fit the product on the field.  It wasn't an "FAU" environment, despite enjoying the winning.

Now, FAU stinks.  However, they have their own stadium and the overall product is better, independant of the actual quality of the team.

I think that's something the Marlins have lacked for a long time.  They were a team trying to piggyback on the Dolphins, unsuccessfully.  I'm excited for the new direction.  Do you care about any of this, or is the baseball on the field the only thing that matters?

[MaineDolFan]

They needed to do something, this will help.  New stadium, new look, new name ("Miami" versus "Florida").  Could be the start of something big!  Very cool.

[Brian Fein]

I like the team's new commitment to winning.  I like that they are actively pursuing big free agents.  I think they have to, to support their claims to convince the stadium funding.

However, I still think that once the aura of the new stadium wears off, they will be the same old Marlins.  Samson and company are delusional thinking they are going to draw 30k per game.  This, while moving a chunk of games to the daytime.  Just not happening.

Unless the Marlins start off hot, get a lot of good press early, they will end up in the same place.  The stadium is in a terrible location.  Parking and traffic are going to be huge problems, and there is no option for public transportation.  No one will put up with that to watch a team get clobbered by the Nationals on a Wednesday afternoon, regardless of the new logos or uniforms.

[Thundergod]

^^^ QFT

[MaineDolFan]

Parking and traffic are going to be huge problems, and there is no option for public transportation. 

Man.  It's not even open yet and already the excuses.  Do you think the Marlins have the patent on stadium issues?  I promise you this -- you will have a 100% easier time getting to and from Marlins games than any Red Sox fan living in Maine, New Hampshire or Vermont (or even most of Massachusetts) will getting to and from Fenway.  Very Bob Bummer of you.  The grass is not always greener, my friend.  I've been to every stadium in Major League Baseball.  Fenway is one of the worst, yet people come. 

Here is a day in the life of a Mainer going to a Sox game, using public transportation:

• Either take the whole day off, or leave work by 11:00am. For a baseball game.  At 7pm.
• Train by noon.
• Arrive in Boston around 4pm.
• Walk in rush hour traffic?  No thanks.  Find a cab in rush hour traffic?  No thanks.
• Fight my way on to green line (train B, C or D)
• Arrive at Fenway, generally about an hour before gates open.
• Enjoy ONE or TWO  pre game beers.
• Enjoy game.  Tied in 7th inning.
• Realize Amtrak is going to leave at 11:00, with or without me. and I'm at a tied game.
• Brave it until 10:10 and make my way to Kenmore, fight my way to trains.
• Hope to GOD I don't get pushed on to E train.
• Hope to GOD I don't get pushed on Lechemere train.
• Literally make it to North Station with minutes to spare.
• After rushing, sit on train for 25 minutes before it moves.
• Although a "flag stop only" - train stops at every station on the way home.
• Roll in at home 3:40am.

^^At this point, I have almost been on the road for 24 hours to attend a baseball game located a two hour drive away.  It literally would be easier and quicker to board a flight to Baltimore and see them play there than it would to see Boston play AT Fenway.

Shall I cover the nightmare that is DRIVING into Boston for a game?  I could go with option A ("official parking lot of the Red Sox" which is about a hike through the city but fairly cheap) or option B (random parking lot which could range from $80 - $150...to PARK).  This doesn't begin to speak to the HOURS spent driving IN and OUT of the city before and after the game.

The Marlins don't have the market cornered on this.  What, exactly, were you looking for here?  You wanted a new stadium and you got it?  Fenway is a dump and is in a bad area of Boston.  It's hard to get to, no parking, cost a mint to get in and out, literally takes your entire day...and people still go.

So...what's the point?  If people WANT to go, they'll go.  If the product is strong, they will.

[SportsChick]

What if you drove to a T station, thus taking away the AmTrack portion? We always drove to Braintree and hopped the T there, but then again I was within MA.

Unless you know the area, this is a very different set of problems. As a woman, I have ZERO issue going to Joe Robbie/Pro Player/Dolphins/Landshark/Sunlife Stadium alone. It's easy in, easy out, fairly safe.

The location of the new stadium? Not a snowball's chance in hell will I go to a game alone, ever. I wouldn't go with a group of girls either. the neighborhood isn't safe, parking will be awful, depending on city lots. (the garage is for season ticket holders).

The Marlins have decided that they're going to market to the Miami Hispanic community with Broward and Palm Beach residents be dammed. They've been moving to this with their Super Saturday's of concerts of Hispanic music that have people buying tickets and showing up in the 7th inning just to watch the post-game concert. It gets their ticket sales up, but does nothing for the baseball side of things, and as a fan who is there to, oh, I don't know, actually watch the game, this is really irritating.

[Brian Fein]

That's not a fair comparison.  The majority of people in Fenway park don't come from Maine.  And the majority of people in Maine don't go to every Sox game.  There is a train that drops you off a 5-minute walk from the stadium front door.  Anyone in the metro-Boston area can get there with little to no hassle by MBTA.  I was there this past summer.  I experienced this.

(and just some quick math, even by your times, I fail to see how 11 AM to 3:40 am = 24 hours.  I'll give you 16 hours for argument's sake.  But I get the point.)

Imagine if the Red Sox relied 100% on Maine residents to fill their stadium.  You think they'd have a packed house every day?

That's what the Marlins are like.  Not to mention the Marlins have about 1/1000th the fans in comparison to the Sox.  Maybe less.

All I'm asking is for the team to understand your target market and play to your strengths.  The Marlins historically draw 300-700 fans for day games.  The front office thinks its because of the sun and crappy stadium.  They are DEAD wrong.  Why do they still draw 15000 on Sunday afternoon and 400 on Wednesday afternoon?  The sun is not as hot on Sundays?

Its because not enough people care to take days off from work to go to the game.  The answer is not to build a stadium with a roof, its to convince people to care more.  

And that's not a simple task either, but in the mean time, don't move more games to day time and think it is fixed.  Its not.  People still don't care.  People want to see the stadium more than they do the Marlins.  Sad but true.

Edit to add - Re: parking and traffic - you would need to know the area, but the Orange Bowl was notorious for being difficult to access.  This stadium is built in that same location.  They built a parking garage for season ticket holders, and told everyone else that they have to park in people's front yards and on the side of the street.  There are no trains, no buses.  There is exactly one ramp to and from the highway which is always clogged with traffic anyway.  It is going to be a nightmare to access this stadium from anywhere other than Little Havana.  I hope I'm wrong.

[MaineDolFan]

^^Actually, your statement above isn't fair nor accurate.  I wish I could find the study (I can't) that was done in something like 2007.  Something like 67% of all Red Sox game attendants traveled an average of 70 miles to attend a game, on average.  I think you have an incorrect vision of people rolling out of their bed in downtown Boston, walking across the street and walking into the stadium.  Sure, some do.  Most don't.

70 miles due north from Fenway puts you in (wait for it)...Maine.  Clearly 70 miles could also put you in Rhode Island, the Cape, CT, Vermont, NH...however my point stands.  A MAJORITY of people coming to every single game at Fenway travels to do so.  And they deal with the massive headache I've explained.

As far as driving to a t stop -- you COULD, but it still presents challenges.  It's actually easier to drive into the city at that point, if you're coming all the way from a destination like Maine.  If you're coming from even further away, say somewhere like North Conway, NH -- you're really screwed.  Chances are you need to get a hotel to see a game.  Which, by the way, people do...in order to see a game.  It's what this fan base does.  To see a game.

It's easier, and cheaper, to board a plane and fly to Toronto or Baltimore to see a game on the road than it is in Boston.  Fact.  Yet, again, Boston sells out.  Miami should draw better in a better stadium.

FYI - It's higher (mileage / traveling) for Patriots fans. Something like 96 miles.

[Phishfan]

It's easier, and cheaper, to board a plane and fly to Toronto or Baltimore to see a game on the road than it is in Boston.  Fact. 

I challenge this. How cheap would the tickets be? Driving 70 miles should be much cheaper than boarding a plane. Also, how is it any easier? Are there trains from the airport in those cities to the ballpark? If not, you need rental cars or taxis which includes additional hassles and money. I think you may have gone a bit too far on trying to prove a point with this one.

[shamrock]

I agree,Brian,but they have some huge trust issues to overcome.They started out well down there,had great attendance,won a world series........then held a fire sale.Thanks to good scouting and farm system they did it again a few years later,world champs..........then held a fire sale....kinda hard to get fans back after that.

[Brian Fein]

I agree with shamrock, and I hear that a lot.  But the new management has to win another World Series to prove that it won't happen again.

I guess the point of this entire thing is that the new stadium doesn't guarantee you magically 3x the fans.  In fact, the location makes it far less likely that I will go to many games, and I'm not alone in that sentiment.  Far from it.

[MaineDolFan]

I challenge this. How cheap would the tickets be? Driving 70 miles should be much cheaper than boarding a plane. Also, how is it any easier? Are there trains from the airport in those cities to the ballpark? If not, you need rental cars or taxis which includes additional hassles and money. I think you may have gone a bit too far on trying to prove a point with this one.

Challenge all you want.  You won't find any tickets at face value.  You'll have to go through Stub Hub or a secondary seller.  Last year my wife and I went to Fenway one time.  We paid $83 (each) for bleacher seats (plus fees).  The train tickets were $60 each (plus fees).  That's $286.  At one point last year two carriers were offering round trip flights to Baltimore for $99 out of Portland.  Tickets are face value at Camden, you can get in as cheap as $12.  My wife and I = $99 x 2 = $198 x $12 x = 24 = $222.00.

Trust me, we did the math.  We had it all booked and we were ready to take a day trip.  Flight left at 6:50am.  Game was at 1pm.  Return flight was at 7:45.  We could not find someone to watch Abby and had to bail out.

[MaineDolFan]

I guess the point of this entire thing is that the new stadium doesn't guarantee you magically 3x the fans. 

Of course not.  It does, however, remove the Dolphin Stadium excuse aspect of the poor turn out thing (if poor turn outs continue).  That's all I am saying. 

[Dave Gray]

Of all the cases where you can blame management for a team, the Marlins are not the case.  The management of the Marlins has done a great job putting together a good product.  Unfortuntaely, it's the way baseball works.  You can't expect the Marlins to lose money year after year after year.  Their path to success is to play smart, spend money on the best value type of players, scout well, and make a big push for one year.  Then, because the cost is too high, dump everyone and start again.  It's worked for them twice, so I can't really blame them.  It's a product of baseball's economics.

Maybe this new stadium and this new approach will work for them.  I hope it does.  ...but I can't fault the Marlins at all for their franchise strategy to this point.

[Brian]

Of all the cases where you can blame management for a team, the Marlins are not the case.  The management of the Marlins has done a great job putting together a good product.  Unfortuntaely, it's the way baseball works.  You can't expect the Marlins to lose money year after year after year.  Their path to success is to play smart, spend money on the best value type of players, scout well, and make a big push for one year.  Then, because the cost is too high, dump everyone and start again.  It's worked for them twice, so I can't really blame them.  It's a product of baseball's economics.

Maybe this new stadium and this new approach will work for them.  I hope it does.  ...but I can't fault the Marlins at all for their franchise strategy to this point.

The marlins were making plenty of money. They only SAID they were losing money. They were one of the most profitable teams in baseball. Easy to be when you have a 25 million dollar payroll and everyone else is over 60.

Making the playoffs twice in 18 years is a good product? So the dolphins are a good product then?