For actual fans only

[Dave Gray]

^ I certainly get that, but I think that time has passed.  I would be flabberghasted if we don't completely clean house, regardless of how much "eeking" we do down the stretch.

[Phishfan]

You're missing the bigger point.

Have you ever asked for any Dolphin player or coach to be replaced?
Would the replacement of said person have guaranteed an improvement?
If not, then your continued insistence that Suck For Luck guarantees nothing is not particularly relevant.  Nothing is guaranteed.

Suck for Luck does indeed guarantee something, current losses. Displeasure in a coach (and there was only one head coach I wanted gone and voiced it about) does not guarantee losses. It is apples and oranges.

Also, let's not focus on the word guarantee. It is not the crux of my argument (nor anyone I think). It is just a response to the position of, if we lose now we have a better chance of winning then. The crux of the argument is that you should not ever want to see your team lose.

[Cathal]

Suck for Luck does indeed guarantee something, current losses. Displeasure in a coach (and there was only one head coach I wanted gone and voiced it about) does not guarantee losses. It is apples and oranges.

It only guarantees it if the team throws the games, which I'm pretty sure everyone can agree they are not doing. So, it's just a hope that they keep losing or a "meh" if they do lose.

[tubba marxxx]

Yeah, I don't understand the idea of a guarantee.  There are no guarantees at all in sports.  As previously stated, you're either analyzing things that already happened or making predictions of what is to come.  You have to make decisions that you think have the best probability of success.  Luck may be a total failure.  But if scouts are correct, he gives you the best probability of a QB coming out of college in a decade.  Because I trust those prognosticators, I felt that losing (what I consider to be) meaningless games in an already lost season were beneficial to our best CHANCE at long-term viability as a franchise.

Now, I can't speak for other "Suck for Luck"ers, but I no longer am hoping for the team to lose games.  I feel that our chance of getting Luck has passed (the chance of Indy pouring on 4 wins seems nil), and I'm not as high on these other QBs enough to give up the pleasure of watching (meaningless) Dolphin wins.  However, I do understand that sentiment if other fans think that continued losses will lead to a superstar QB (Griffin III or whoever else) and I certainly don't disparage their fandom for it.

I am not saying that anyone else SHOULD hope for losses.  I get the idea of being proud of wins, regardless.  I just don't subscribe to that.  What I resent is having my fandom of 25 years questioned because of my feelings towards how to best improve the team.

Look, I apologize to you, or anyone else that I might have offended by using the terms "actual fans" and so on.  However you (generally speaking) choose to root for the Dolphins is fine.  You're still rooting for the Dolphins.  Kind of like the argument of Reading books, or e-reading, who cares? You're still reading.  Anyways,  one disclaimer I'm providing about myself is that I tend to be a very blunt and passionate person.  I speak (or type) and ask questions later.  So again, I might have been a little harsh and I apologize.  We all have the same frustrations with this team.  I've been a fan since I knew what a football was (I'm 25 now, so I think it's safe to say I've been a fan for 2 decades).  I've seen good times, and I've seen horrible time just like the rest of you.  Yet every Sunday I'm "suited up" in a Dolphins jersey, my "J-E-T-S SUCK! SUCK! SUCK!" shirt underneath said jersey, and a beer in hand.  Every game I'm yelling at the t.v. thinking they can hear me and chain smoking when it's a close game.  After a loss, don't talk to me until tomorrow.  If you do, I'll play the role of Ozzy, you'll play the role of the bat. 

I understand the concept of a high draft pick, especially in this years draft.  I'm not denying that it would help Miami out a tremendous amount.  Again, cheer for Miami however you want, I'm officially retiring the argument.  I just can't find it in myself to hope for/want a loss.  To quote AZ from earlier this month: "I root for a victory every week, every game, every year no matter what!!!!!"

Cheers to that notion my friends. 

[Dave Gray]

Also, let's not focus on the word guarantee. It is not the crux of my argument (nor anyone I think).

The lack of any guarantee is the sticking point for me.

It is the crux of Brian's argument.

[Dave Gray]

Look, I apologize to you.

While I appreciate that, it really isn't necessary.  We're all just sharing our opinions, no offense taken.  I think you touch on a good point when you say that we're all rooting for the Dolphins...just in differerent ways.  In essense, we all want what we think is best for the team.  ...there's just a disagreement about what that entails.

[AZ Fins Fan 55]

Every game I'm yelling at the t.v. thinking they can hear me and chain smoking when it's a close game.  After a loss, don't talk to me until tomorrow.  If you do, I'll play the role of Ozzy, you'll play the role of the bat. 

This pretty much describes my Sundays to a fine point. I am glad I am not the only delusional person after a Dolphins loss.....you should see some of my Facebook posts.....you would think the world was going to end when Miami loses lol!!!!! My wife cheers for the Dolphins just so she doesn't have to have "Grumpy Hubby" for the remainder of her Sunday!!!!!! It was not a good first 7 weeks of Sundays for her and my whole family had to listen to my incoherent ramblings before Thanksgiving dinner this past week!!!!! 

[Brian Fein]

It is the crux of Brian's argument.

No, its not.  Its just the main problem I have with YOUR argument.

My argument is exactly as Phish is stating.  I don't want my team to lose, regardless of the purpose.

My problem is sucking now doesn't lead to winning later.  That's just it.  You can't say that with certainty.  Its just not true.

And, to Spider's accusation, I never once asked for Sparano to be fired.  Sucking now leads to other things like people getting fired/cut who should be retained and the perception of a team in shambles which precludes said team from signing further free agents.

You're just not seeing the big picture.  One player does not make a team.  As Dolphins fans, I'd think that 19 years of Dan Marino would make you more intimate with that fact than anyone else.

I'd rather get a few wins, make some progress, show improvement, and have a good foundation going into next year.  Get stronger, get MANY improvements at several positions, rather than just one.

[Dave Gray]

My problem is sucking now doesn't lead to winning later.  That's just it.  You can't say that with certainty.  Its just not true.

Ugh...

YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING WITH CERTAINTY!

Sucking now (when a season is clearly lost) could mean getting the best PROSPECT at QB, ever.  Since our QB has been severely lacking for the last decade, that seems like a direction that would be good for us.  ...I know it's not guaranteed.  Some walk-on may be better than Andrew Luck.  But it's not likely.  Having to make good decisions on the non-definitive future means you take the best chance.  By all accounts, Luck is the best chance.  ...not Matt Moore slowly improving towards next year.

I can't tell if you really don't get this or you're just being obtuse.

You don't have to agree with the strategy, but at least recognize it.

[MikeO]

This is the dumbest debate ever.

1) ANYONE who spends as much time on this board as we all do is an "actual fan." I mean seriously why would a non-Dolphins fan spend 365 days a year on this board. I mean in May and June when nothing is happening we are here talking Fins football. Everyone is a Dolphins fan. (not counting Hoodie who is the exception).

2) Dolphins Fans right now that root for the Fins to win every week, good bless ya. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't look down on fans who are also not heart broken to see them to lose when the season is clearly over and lost. Newsflash: Miami isn't going to the playoffs. So, what is there to look forward to. ANSWER: The NFL DRAFT! What is the best way to do best in the draft, have the highest pick possible in every round. How do you do that...you lose! If the season is over and you know your coaching staff and GM are going to be fired, why wouldn't you want a high draft pick? That doesn't mean you have to dawn a Sanchez jersey or a Brady jersey and openly cheer for the opponent each week. But for christ sakes going on a message board  (which by the way has no impact on anything let alone the outcome of the actual games)and saying, I wouldn't be heart broken if we lose out, hell I kinda hope it happens. So' F'n What! Who cares!

3) In closing, if you think winning games this final month is building towards the future. HOW? You don't even know who the  head coach will be next year and odds are the new head coach is cleaning house on some level. And lots of guys on a 3, 4, 5, win team won't be back. When you only win a handful of games, you suck. Hence, lots of people go. What are you building on or towards? There is no foundation and we ain't building one with anyone in this group.

[MikeO]

One player does not make a team.  As Dolphins fans, I'd think that 19 years of Dan Marino would make you more intimate with that fact than anyone else.

BULL! One player is a team. What is Indy without Manning? I know with him they win the damn division every year. Take Rodgers off the Packers and they are an ordinary team. How is Houston going to finish without Schaub? Answer, not very good! When Brady went down that one year did NE make the playoffs? Sure, they won 11 games but did they make the playoffs...NO! Figure if he plays they win more 11 and are in. Denver before and after Tebow...nuff said! One player IS the team. The NFL has changed!

The ONLY position that matters is QB. The Dan Marino days of the NFL of the 1980's and 1990's is dead and buried. THOSE DAYS one player wasn't a team. You needed a total and complete team. The game has changed in every way possible.  Every rule is now tilted towards the offense and specifically the quarterback. One player IS the team. It's the QB!

[Spider-Dan]

My problem is sucking now doesn't lead to winning later.  That's just it.  You can't say that with certainty.  Its just not true.

You can't say anything about the future results of any change with certainty.

And, to Spider's accusation, I never once asked for Sparano to be fired.

Brian, in the first year of this site alone, you asked for the following Dolphins employees to be fired:

Ray Lucas
Brian Griese
Mark Royals
Jay Fiedler (and Brian Griese)
Kendall Newson
Dave Wannstedt and the entire coaching staff

Now, did any of those changes guarantee an improvement?  Of course not.  So, by your logic, why be a negative fan and ask for current Dolphins to be fired?

The point is not specifically Sparano, or even Andrew Luck.  The point is that you seem to be saying, "If it's not certain to produce positive results, don't do it."  Under that logic, anything is futile.

[Spider-Dan]

Also, let's not focus on the word guarantee. It is not the crux of my argument (nor anyone I think). It is just a response to the position of, if we lose now we have a better chance of winning then. The crux of the argument is that you should not ever want to see your team lose.

Such a position is no more convincing than, "You should not ever speak ill of your team."

All of you have no qualms whatsoever speaking ill of the Dolphins under the auspices of "constructive criticism."  Why is wishing for losses any different?

[shamrock]

I think that we would all agree to root for or bitch about your favorite team shows PASSION.......which is the heart of being a fan at any level.

[Phishfan]

I mean seriously why would a non-Dolphins fan spend 365 days a year on this board.

Maybe you should ask Hoodie or jtex since neither is a Dolphins fan and is here daily.