Jason Taylor to retire after Sunday's game

[MikeO]

So then it's NOT just what you do, it's what your team does while you're on the team as well.  Isn't that a bit unfair to guys like Taylor that just happened to be a great player on an average team?

Bob was the QB. QB's are held to different standards. It's the most important position in all of sports let alone football. They have a direct effect on wins/losses.

If JT was the all time leader in sacks or 2nd on the list or something than yeah he should get his number retired. Being 6th or whatever he is now isn't good enough. If he was considered to be the greatest OLB/DE in the history of the sport, ok then. He wasn't. He wasn't a Super Bowl MVP or anything like that. He doesn't have the resume like guys like Rice, Brown, White, Lott, or other NON-QB's who have their numbers retired.

[Pappy13]

Bob was the QB. QB's are held to different standards.

Which is why I asked only QB's then? Apparently it IS only QB's.

I think QB's get FAR too much credit AND far too much blame. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[MikeO]

Which is why I asked only QB's then? Apparently it IS only QB's.

I think QB's get FAR too much credit AND far too much blame. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I disagree. QB play is what determines a teams success (or failure) on the NFL level. You can "mask" or "disguise" any other position, you can't hide a flat out bad QB in the NFL. They get the blame and credit as they should, the position IS that important.

And its not only QB's, numerous NON-QB's have had their numbers retired. But they were "special" players. JT while a great player isn't on that level.

[bsmooth]

Bob was the QB. QB's are held to different standards. It's the most important position in all of sports let alone football. They have a direct effect on wins/losses.

If JT was the all time leader in sacks or 2nd on the list or something than yeah he should get his number retired. Being 6th or whatever he is now isn't good enough. If he was considered to be the greatest OLB/DE in the history of the sport, ok then. He wasn't. He wasn't a Super Bowl MVP or anything like that. He doesn't have the resume like guys like Rice, Brown, White, Lott, or other NON-QB's who have their numbers retired.

Since you brought up Lott lets compare.
They are very similar in number of Pro Bowl selections and All Pro.
Lott has 8.5 sacks and 63 Int's
Taylor has 8 Int's and 139.5 Sacks
Lott owns no NFL records and was never the defensive player of the year
Taylor owns the NFL record for fumble returns for TD's, was twice the AFC Defensive Player of the year, the NFL Defensive Player of the Year, and the PFWA Defensive Player of the Year.
If Lott who was part of a dynasty makes it as a first ballot, then JT should be the same because his resume is at least as impressive as Lott's. He just does not have the rings.
Also JT has better numbers than John Randle who went his second year of eligibility and had his number retired before he entered the HOF.
The Dolphins have less retired numbers than the Vikings do. Apparently only offensive players get their numbers retired in Miami.

[Pappy13]

I disagree. QB play is what determines a teams success (or failure) on the NFL level.

Let's examine that statement for a moment. Let's take one QB for example. No, not Dan let's take Tom Brady. Tom is usually considered the reason WHY New England won all those SB's, right? Tom won 3 SB's in 4 years, but he hasn't won another one since. Has he gotten worse? The first year he won, he really wasn't the reason NE won, he really didn't play all that amazing that first year, he played well especially considering it was his first year starting in the NFL, but he's played FAR better lately and he hasn't been able to put together another SB victory. Why?

I put it to you that it wasn't Brady at all that won all those SB's, it was the New England Patriots that won them. All of them. Every last guy from the punter to the kicker to Brady. Not only that, but it was the coaching staff as well. Didn't Brady have a little help from Belicheck? The rest of the coaching staff? Didn't they get SB rings too? I mean shouldn't we just give out 1 SB ring every year, to the QB of the winning team? He's the only one that REALLY deserves one doesn't he?

Did you happen to hear Drew Brees speech after he broke Dan Marino's record? He had it right. It wasn't Drew that broke the record, it was the New Orleans Saints. And it wasn't Marino's record that he broke it was Marino's, Duper's Clayton's etc. Most people just thought that was just Drew being nice, but I actually believe that Drew believed it. He sure sounded sincere to me. I believe it. When Marino was inducted into the hall of fame he threw one last pass to Clayton on that day. Was that just Dan being nice, or was that Dan's way of saying that if it wasn't for Duper and Clayton, he wouldn't be up there? I realize I'm in the minority, but just being in the minority doesn't make you wrong. Right?

And maybe you can't hide a flat out bad QB, but you certainly can take an average QB and make him look a heck of a lot better by putting a whole slew of talented players on the team with him. It's been done numerous times. So just because you have a couple SB's to your name, that doesn't necessarily make you a great QB and a lot of times I think it makes you seem to be a great QB even if your play doesn't really suggest it. I'm not saying Griese wasn't pretty good, he was. But did he win 2 SB's by himself? No, he had a LOT of help.

[MikeO]

Let's examine that statement for a moment. Let's take one QB for example. No, not Dan let's take Tom Brady. Tom is usually considered the reason WHY New England won all those SB's, right? Tom won 3 SB's in 4 years, but he hasn't won another one since. Has he gotten worse? The first year he won, he really wasn't the reason NE won, he really didn't play all that amazing that first year, he played well especially considering it was his first year starting in the NFL, but he's played FAR better lately and he hasn't been able to put together another SB victory. Why?

I put it to you that it wasn't Brady at all that won all those SB's, it was the New England Patriots that won them. All of them. Every last guy from the punter to the kicker to Brady. Not only that, but it was the coaching staff as well. Didn't Brady have a little help from Belicheck? The rest of the coaching staff? Didn't they get SB rings too? I mean shouldn't we just give out 1 SB ring every year, to the QB of the winning team? He's the only one that REALLY deserves one doesn't he?

Did you happen to hear Drew Brees speech after he broke Dan Marino's record? He had it right. It wasn't Drew that broke the record, it was the New Orleans Saints. And it wasn't Marino's record that he broke it was Marino's, Duper's Clayton's etc. Most people just thought that was just Drew being nice, but I actually believe that Drew believed it. He sure sounded sincere to me. I believe it. I realize I'm in the minority, but just being in the minority doesn't make you wrong. Right?

And maybe you can't hide a flat out bad QB, but you certainly can take an average QB and make him look a heck of a lot better by putting a whole slew of talented players on the team with him. It's been done numerous times. So just because you have a couple SB's to your name, that doesn't necessarily make you a great QB and a lot of times I think it makes you seem to be a great QB even if your play doesn't really suggest it. I'm not saying Griese wasn't pretty good, he was. But did he win 2 SB's by himself? No, he had a LOT of help.

Drew Brees was being nice. Brady is the Pats and the reason they win, it sure as hell ain't their defense that can't stop anyone. Belichick didn't win anything BEFORE Brady!

It's a Quarterbacks league. Teams failures or success ride on their arms.

[Pappy13]

Drew Brees was being nice. Brady is the Pats and the reason they win, it sure as hell ain't their defense that can't stop anyone. Belichick didn't win anything BEFORE Brady!

It's a Quarterbacks league. Teams failures or success ride on their arms.

Griese would only have 1 SB victory to his name and the "legendary" undefeated '72 Dolphins wouldn't have ever been if not for Earl Morrall.  Who's that? Yeah, exactly.

[MikeO]

Griese would only have 1 SB victory to his name if not for Earl Morrall.  Who's that? Yeah, exactly.

But he also took a team to the Super Bowl in 1971. Look at Griese's year in 71, I think it was 19 TD's to only 9 INT's. He carried that team that year. That wasn't the year of the running game, that was Bob that year.  3 Super Bowls in a row. Only Jim Kelly can lay claim to doing equal or better. And even Jimbo missed a couple playoff games to injury in that time.

If you want to take the stance Bob Griese wasn't a great QB and doesn't belong in the hall of fame or having his number retired, go for it. I disagree wholeheartedly.

[Pappy13]

But he also took a team to the Super Bowl in 1971. Look at Griese's year in 71, I think it was 19 TD's to only 9 INT's. He carried that team that year. That wasn't the year of the running game, that was Bob that year.

And they LOST that year. Big time. Got killed actually. It was actually when Mercury Morris became the starter over Kiick and the running game REALLY took off that they won the SB.

And it's not really even true that it was all Griese that year. Csonka had thousand yards. That was back in the day when they only played 14 games and back when thousand yards was impressive. Griese had a whopping 2,089 passing yards that year. Not even twice what Csonka alone had running the ball and add in Kiick's 700 and Morris' 300 yards and they almost equalled Griese's passing yards.

[MikeO]

And they LOST that year. Big time. Got killed actually. It was when the running game REALLY took off that they won the SB.

Yeah they lost, but at least they got there. Like I said, how many QB's can say they went to 3 straight super bowls. That's what makes Griese special. He played a large factor in that run.

I'm not saying Griese is an all time great QB, he isn't. But in Dolphins history he is a legendary player who deserves his number retired for his accomplishments and success on the field.

[Pappy13]

I'm not saying Griese is an all time great QB, he isn't. But in Dolphins history he is a legendary player...

Which is based mostly on his team's accomplishments, not on his individual contribution.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge Griese anything, I love the guy, but the facts are that he's a legendary player because he played for the Dolphins when the Dolphins were great. Take away Csonka, Kiick, Scott, Morris etc etc etc and he's just another good QB. In fact that's exactly what happened when all those guys left the NFL and went to play in Canada. The Dolphins never again sniffed a SB with Griese starting. In fact Griese never again won a single playoff game after that and he played for 7 more years.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

The reason I ask is because you don't seem to have a problem with Griese's number being retired and he's not even the best for this franchise let alone the league. I mean there were quite a few QB's back then could be argued were better than Griese. I think an argument can be made that Taylor is the best DE/OLB that Miami has ever had and he's been at least close to one of the best league wide most of the time he's been playing. He was the defensive player of the year once and the AFC defensive player twice.

I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing that Taylor's number should or shouldn't be retired, I just think we throw around QB's names as legendary a LOT easier than we do for defensive lineman. That's all I'm trying to say.

I think the standards for retiring numbers was lower 20 years ago than it is today.  And yes, QBs are held to a differnent standard.  Numbers are retired only for the "face of the franchise" not many defensive players are ever the face of the franchise.  QBs often are. 

[MikeO]

Watching JT being carried off the field was a heck of a "moment." That will go down in Dolphins history.

Might actually beat having the number retired honestly, I don't think any player in franchise history has been carried off by his teammates in their final game.

[MyGodWearsAHoodie]

“I couldn’t have been happier — for Jason and his family, of course — to learn that Jason Taylor was finally retiring. The NFL will miss his presence on Sundays, but I for one will not. I wish Jason and his family the very best in his retirement and look forward to seeing him … off the field.”

I thought it was a pretty funny way of expressing his admiration. 

http://articles.boston.com/2012-01-02/sports/30581982_1_jason-taylor-tom-brady-retirement

If I recall Brady had also said he was quite happy when JT had left Miami for Dallas. 

[CF DolFan]

OK that was pretty funny!! Kudos to Brady.