Free Agency discussion.

[Pappy13]

Read Armando's article and I think Armando is on to something. No, not that he doesn't like Manning, I still like Manning as a stop gap, but that he likes Mario Williams.  That makes a lot of sense to me as well. Put him on the other side of Cam Wake and watch them cause havoc. Would love to see that.

Also would love to see Laurent Robinson from Dallas in a Miami uniform. I watched him play enough to say that he was the most productive WR that Dallas had this year. Not the best, that distinction goes to Dez Bryant who has the best set of tools for a WR, but Robinson get's more out of the tools he has than does Bryant.

[MikeO]

Mario Williams? God no. Great player, but NO! Coming off a year where the Packers, Patriots, and Super Bowl Champs the NY Giants all ranked in the bottom 5 in defense and yet all had outstanding seasons where they either were at the top of the NFL all year or won the whole damn thing in the end, why build up a stellar defense? It makes zero sense in this day in age. 

Build up a big-time offense and you can get by with a sub-par defense. And the odd thing is if Miami stands pat on defense or only loses Soliai, their defense isn't sub par. It's 6th in scoring defense and middle of the pack in total defense last year and would be around the same probably next year. An above average NFL defense, that's with adding nobody!! The ONLY way you get by with a sub-par offense (like SF did) is if you play in a god-awful division with cupcakes. Miami doesn't have that luxury! Otherwise build up the offense that's all that matters!

Give me Flynn or Manning.....give me a TE....give me another WR to throw too. Give me 1 decent o-linemen (I think Jerry or Murtha can fill one spot on the right side, they might both be able to fill both holes honestly but give me at least 1 new guy). That's where I want to spend salary cap money. The majority of the cap money! Defense is an after-thought.

[tubba marxxx]

Carl Nicks

[MikeO]

Carl Nicks

I wouldn't break the bank for him. But i would rather spend it on Nicks than Mario Williams.

[el diablo]

Nicks, Robinson, Flynn yes. If they could do that & still pick up Couples or Ingram in the draft. Either one of those two would be a cheaper & better investment than Mario Williams. If Nicks or Robinson want too much, there are other options.

[Pappy13]

I got news for all of you. This defense is average. Very average. Now, they have the players to be good to great, but they haven't shown it, not in the least.  Even if they brought in Manning and started scoring 25 to 30 points a game, the defense would start giving up 25 to 30 a game. There's no reason to score 25 when 20 will do. Both the offense and the defense need some more players if you want to compete for the division or even a wild card.

[MikeO]

I got news for all of you. This defense is average. Very average. Now, they have the players to be good to great, but they haven't shown it, not in the least.  Even if they brought in Manning and started scoring 25 to 30 points a game, the defense would start giving up 25 to 30 a game. There's no reason to score 25 when 20 will do. Both the offense and the defense need some more players if you want to compete for the division or even a wild card.

In this league an average defense is good enough! That's the point!

[EKnight]

Miami's average defense wasn't "good enough." When the offense put up 20, the defense gave up 21; when they scored 10, the defense gave up 13. I wonder how many teams approached Miami with the idea, "if we keep it close until the fourth, the D will collapse late like it does every week." if they could have stopped anyone in the fourth quarter, Miami would have been a Wild Card team, not a top 10 draft team. The 6-10 can't be placed entirely-or even mostly- on the offense. Those 10 losses were a team effort on both sides of the ball. I would bet that Miami had a bottom 5 D in the fourth quarter last year. Thy have to do better than that, especially with the amount of talent they have and how much they spent on some of the additions. -EK

[Landshark]

In this league an average defense is good enough! That's the point!

No it's not.  Look what the Giants did to the Packers in the divisional round.  Look at the NFC Championship game.  Look at the AFC Championship game.  Look at the Super Bowl.  To get deep in the playoffs, you need strong defensive play.

[CF DolFan]

It's been proven that you can win in many different ways but having a good defense and a great QB seems to be the most successful. I woulnd't purposely put all my eggs in either basket.

[David Fulcher]

No it's not.  Look what the Giants did to the Packers in the divisional round.  Look at the NFC Championship game.  Look at the AFC Championship game.  Look at the Super Bowl.  To get deep in the playoffs, you need strong defensive play.

It's been proven that you can win in many different ways but having a good defense and a great QB seems to be the most successful. I woulnd't purposely put all my eggs in either basket.

Agreed, agreed, and......agreed. 

MikeO makes way too light of defenses in the NFL nowadays, regardless of how the rules have changed (yes, they favor the offenses, no doubt, but defense still matters...a lot).  You think the Denver freakin' Broncos were in the playoffs due to their *magnificent* offense and not due to their (actually pretty good by the end of the season) defense?  Yes, their defense let them down in the playoff game against New England, but really, other than the Giants and occasionally a team like the Steelers or the Ravens or us back in the day, are there many teams who have ever been able to stifle the Pats since the mid-2000's?  I think we both know the answer to that one. 

Then, you've got the fact that two of the four Conference Championship contenders are pretty much acknowledged league-wide as defensive teams (Ravens and Niners, of course).  Don't try to sell me on Flacco, either...he had one of his worst seasons, I believe, without going back to look at the stats.  Ray Rice is great, don't get me wrong, but for the most part, that team won because of defense.  I think we all know about the Niners this season, their play defensively speaks for itself.  And either one of those teams could have won and been in the Super Bowl over their respective opponent.  The way the games played out were reflective of such a statement.

Then you've got the Giants.  While you talk about the fact that their defense was in the bottom 5 or whatever (again, not taking the time to go to nfl.com right now to see their exact position) for the duration of the regular season, they sure as heck weren't playing like that come the last 2 or 3 games of the regular season and on into the playoffs.  Once again, I think that is fairly obvious and near a "fact" if you watched the team play in those games. 

Finally, you've got the Pats themselves.  While I dislike their team a lot, like most of us here, their defense really stepped up during the playoffs.  I'll give you, that's not saying much against the Broncos in the Divisional Round as above, but they played well again against the Ravens and, in spurts, against the Giants, who have a good offense.  Hell, they won the AFCCG due to a defensive play, not an offensive play!  Evans catches that pass with--what, 15 seconds left--and you think the Pats pull that one out?? 

Look, ultimately, I'm not trying to pile on, because I think all 3 phases of the game are greatly important.  With the rule changes over the past 5-7 years, I'll give you that the advantage is generally with the offense nowadays, so I would take a potent offense over an elite defense in general in 2012, but to just brush aside defensive play like it doesn't even matter anymore...is something entirely different.

/slight derail

[MikeO]

No it's not.  Look what the Giants did to the Packers in the divisional round.  Look at the NFC Championship game.  Look at the AFC Championship game.  Look at the Super Bowl.  To get deep in the playoffs, you need strong defensive play.

The Giants defense was terrible in the Super Bowl. They let Brady complete 16 straight passes against them and JPP their best player on defense batted down 1 pass in the 1st quarter and did nothing the rest of the game. NOTHING! If Welker catches that easy pass and Brady takes a knee to win that Super Bowl....the Giants defense would have been DESTROYED in the media! They were awful vs New England. They couldn't stop Brady to save their lives in that game. Welker and Hernendaz with their Drops and with gimpy Gronkowski is what slowed the Pats offense down.  Nothing the Giants did.

Also, playing 1 or 2 good defensive games DOESN'T make you a good defense! It just means you played a good game. They were the 27th ranked defense for a reason!  They couldn't stop the Redskins this year! The John Beck/Rex Grossman Redskins....they got lit up by them TWICE! The defense was terrible all year and terrible in the Super Bowl!

[MikeO]

Agreed, agreed, and......agreed. 

MikeO makes way too light of defenses in the NFL nowadays, regardless of how the rules have changed (yes, they favor the offenses, no doubt, but defense still matters...a lot).  You think the Denver freakin' Broncos were in the playoffs due to their *magnificent* offense and not due to their (actually pretty good by the end of the season) defense?  Yes, their defense let them down in the playoff game against New England, but really, other than the Giants and occasionally a team like the Steelers or the Ravens or us back in the day, are there many teams who have ever been able to stifle the Pats since the mid-2000's?  I think we both know the answer to that one. 

Then, you've got the fact that two of the four Conference Championship contenders are pretty much acknowledged league-wide as defensive teams (Ravens and Niners, of course).  Don't try to sell me on Flacco, either...he had one of his worst seasons, I believe, without going back to look at the stats.  Ray Rice is great, don't get me wrong, but for the most part, that team won because of defense.  I think we all know about the Niners this season, their play defensively speaks for itself.  And either one of those teams could have won and been in the Super Bowl over their respective opponent.  The way the games played out were reflective of such a statement.

Then you've got the Giants.  While you talk about the fact that their defense was in the bottom 5 or whatever (again, not taking the time to go to nfl.com right now to see their exact position) for the duration of the regular season, they sure as heck weren't playing like that come the last 2 or 3 games of the regular season and on into the playoffs.  Once again, I think that is fairly obvious and near a "fact" if you watched the team play in those games. 

Finally, you've got the Pats themselves.  While I dislike their team a lot, like most of us here, their defense really stepped up during the playoffs.  I'll give you, that's not saying much against the Broncos in the Divisional Round as above, but they played well again against the Ravens and, in spurts, against the Giants, who have a good offense.  Hell, they won the AFCCG due to a defensive play, not an offensive play!  Evans catches that pass with--what, 15 seconds left--and you think the Pats pull that one out?? 

Look, ultimately, I'm not trying to pile on, because I think all 3 phases of the game are greatly important.  With the rule changes over the past 5-7 years, I'll give you that the advantage is generally with the offense nowadays, so I would take a potent offense over an elite defense in general in 2012, but to just brush aside defensive play like it doesn't even matter anymore...is something entirely different.

/slight derail

So now we are counting the handful of "good plays" the Pats made on defense all year and that qualify's them as a good defensive team? Are you serious!!!

You can sit here and praise the Giants defense, bottom line is the numbers don't lie! And if you take the notion that the numbers aren't correct (which I disagree with but to play along in that theory) the numbers aren't off by "that much", that just makes them a "bad" defense and not a "god awful one." They were miserable in the Super Bowl and miserable all year. They had a good game here or there, but that doesn't qualify them as a good defense in any way shape or form.

I am not making light of defense or brushing it off to the side. But in a SALARY CAP era where the cap number shrinks now a bit, out of my Cap I am spending 65%-70% on offense and the rest on defense.  It makes no sense to invest heavily in defense. ZERO! Aside from Revis, nobody can cover in this league anymore. Nobody covers, you have pretty much 1 lock-down CB in the entire league.  I mean the Pats play a WR in the secondary and it really doesn't hurt them any worse than if they brought in some scrub CB off the streets. Every rule favors the offense in every way. There isn't one rule set up for the defense and the refs enforce the crazy rules in a crazy ways that helps the Offense even more than it should. On defense you need a couple pass decent rushers, some above average tacklers, and a bunch of guys who can run and chase guys down. You don't need the next Mike Singeltary or Revis....its nice if you draft a guy and he turns into that and falls in your lap. But I wouldn't spend big money on those types in free agency. That's my point.

Spend the $$$$$$$$$$$ on offense! That's what wins in this league! Teams can get to and win the Super Bowl with average at best or below average defenses! It's been proven. The 2 worst defensive teams were the Pats and Packers. They went 28-4 this regular season. 30-6 if you count the playoffs and one made the Super Bowl! The other WON the SB the year before! And GB plays in a tough Division and the Pats play in an average division.

P.S...The Broncos were in the playoffs because they played in a garbage division. Hell Denver lost their last 3 games (including loses to Buffalo and KC) and STILL got in the playoffs because everyone else in their division SUCKED so bad they were losing too. Denver doesn't help your argument at all.

[el diablo]

It doesn't matter how you get to the playoffs. Just get there. We live in an era where a 9-7 team won the super bowl. An 8-8 team won a playoff game. And lady season a 7-9 team beat an elite QB. If all you want to do is dominate the regular season, then load up on offense. The Giants defense was injured during the season. So their yardage numbers can't truly reflect what they are capable of. During the playoffs, nobody scored 20 points on them. So, how can you say their defense sucked? You can't. New England established a "bend, don't break" philosophy that kept them fresh enough to step up in the playoffs. It's true that the rules are weighted towards the offense. At the same time, defenses always catch up. So why be a trend follower? Why not be a trend killer? Baltimore & SF were two plays from doing just that.

[MikeO]

It doesn't matter how you get to the playoffs. Just get there. We live in an era where a 9-7 team won the super bowl. An 8-8 team won a playoff game. And lady season a 7-9 team beat an elite QB. If all you want to do is dominate the regular season, then load up on offense. The Giants defense was injured during the season. So their yardage numbers can't truly reflect what they are capable of. During the playoffs, nobody scored 20 points on them. So, how can you say their defense sucked? You can't. New England established a "bend, don't break" philosophy that kept them fresh enough to step up in the playoffs. It's true that the rules are weighted towards the offense. At the same time, defenses always catch up. So why be a trend follower? Why not be a trend killer? Baltimore & SF were two plays from doing just that.

So wait, the Giants defense has BAD stats but is really GOOD

And the Dolphins defense with GOOD stats is really BAD

Yeah sorry, not buying it. But to each their own.