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Poll
Question: Do you think Zimmerman is
Guilty   -5 (25%)
Not Guilty   -2 (10%)
Self Defense   -1 (5%)
You don't know enough to decide   -12 (60%)
Total Voters: 18

Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case  (Read 47113 times)
CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« on: March 27, 2012, 08:32:24 am »

I'm actually surprised no one has brought this up. I was curious as to what you guys' feelings were on the subject as this is my town. I was born 42 years ago in the hospital across the street from all of the protesting going on. I work or know many people who either have been involved or have gotten involved. I have lived here my entire life and have had intimate knowledge of this thing from pretty much the beginning. It blows my mind as to where this thing has gotten but I have to say I like where it seems to be heading. I think it will do more help than harm for the future although things can seem pretty crazy when tens of thousans of people decend on a 50,000 person town.

Anyone care to share their thoughts?
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JVides
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 09:59:44 am »

I came to the story late, due to this little thing called tax season, so I don't really understand how it went from confronting an unknown person strolling your neighborhood to a gunshot.  Can anyone explain what the story here is?  How did the Zimmerman guy end up injured (as I understand he claims self defense)?

Knowing as little as I do, my gut feeling is this doesn't look right. 
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Phishfan
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« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 10:00:35 am »

I'll tell you that I haven't stepped foot in Sanford since this thing began. I really have mixed feelings as I was not there and the information seems to be coming out piece by piece. I was concerned hearing about how many calls Zimmerman placed to the police in a year. I thought he was the classic neighborhood watch wanna be cop (which he still might be). I was also concerned when I heard that the police operator told Zimmerman to stop following Martin. I had assumed he continued doing so. At that point I was thinking Martin himself thought he was acting in self defense. If I have a stranger following me (he was on the phone expressing concern about it apparently) there is only so much time before I am going to feel threatened myself. Currently the reports are that Zimmerman had given up following Martin and was then attacked from behind being knocked to the ground and having his head beat into the sidewalk.

If that is the actual event, then I think I would have pulled a trigger also.

The long and short of it is that it was a tragic event and regardless of the final outcome, someone is not going to be happy with it.
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MyGodWearsAHoodie
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« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 10:18:57 am »

Hard to know what the truth is.

I honestly don't know if Zimmerman was acting in self-defense or not.  If this was murder or a legitmate act of self defense.

What I do know that the protesters are dillustional or straight up liers and for the most part racists.  To hear his supporters speak you would think Martin was a saint incapble of every causing any trouble.  However, on the day of his death was the first day of a ten day suspension from school.  While I haven't seen why he was suspended, my experience is kids don't get suspended 10 days for chewing gum in class or passing notes.  The only way to get such a harsh punishement is thru repeated acts of violence or drug use.  

While I don't know if Zimmerman committed a crime or not, I do know that the Black Panthers putting a $10,000 bounty for Zimmermanís ďcaptureĒ is a crime.  
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bsfins
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 10:35:19 am »

I agree with Hoodie, I don't know enough....

My reaction to stories that blow up on the internet over rage about something,or strongly one way or another on an issue...They tend to be half truths,not the whole story...So I really don't care too much at all...
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Landshark
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« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2012, 10:39:07 am »

The latest reports are that the boy had the man on the ground and was punching him when the man shot him. 

Looks like a gray area to me.  Definitely not murder but the force was too excessive to be labeled as self defense
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2012, 10:42:01 am »

I don't think you'll find many logical people who believe that Zimmerman acted in self defense.  Although, because the way that the screwy law is written in Florida, he may get off.

There are a few things that a problematic:
- The police didn't arrest Zimmerman at the scene (which was the wrong call, in my opinion, but at least makes sense).  What doesn't make sense is that they didn't do the normal things that you do when there's a death, like confiscate the weapon/clothes/evidence for testing.  This means that a lot of the evidence that would corroborate a story is now destroyed.
- The police released Zimmerman's statement as fact.  That's pretty bad.

You can't go out, start trouble, and then shoot someone when that trouble escalates.  Also, this talk about Treyvon's character -- who gives a shit?  It doesn't matter why he wasn't at school or whether he was a saint or a total dickhead.  A crazy person tracked down, confronted, and ultimately killed a minor.  And the law is written so poorly that he may get off on a technicality, which is pretty absurd.  The dude had called the cops something like 40 times in the last year.  He has a screw loose, went out looking for trouble, and found it, by creating it himself.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2012, 10:52:34 am »

 While I haven't seen why he was suspended,

There was marijuana remnants in his backpack.
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2012, 11:06:23 am »

Even if Treyvon was punching the guy, it doesn't matter.

The guy sought out the fight and brought a gun.  You can't go, act like a an asshole and start a fight, and then retaliate with deadly force, claiming self defense, when it is avoidable.  If that's a law, it's a bad law.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 11:31:19 am »

^^^ According to the reports there is more to it than you let on, if the reports are correct.

First, included in the punching was reportedly his head being slammed in the concrete. That is deadly force by Trevon if it happened.
Second, he did not seek out a fight according to reports. He is the neighborhood watch (although an overzealous one I feel). He followed someone he called the police about. According to reports when asked to stop following him he was retruning to his car when approached by Trevon.
Third, there is nothing illegal about carrying a firearm, provided you have the permit. I haven't heard anyone make that argument so there was nothing wrong I assume.
Fourth, there is nothing illegal about following someone down the street unless you commit some other action.

Granted, how I initially heard the story had me on the same path of thinking as you. But the police have a report saying the accused was leaving the scene when attacked.
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 11:49:08 am »

First of all the 911 operator didn't order him to stop and couldn't do so as they have no authority.

When the officer arrived Zimmerman was standing next to the body. the body was face down laying on his arms. He had appeared to have been shot form the front.

Zimmerman was bleeding pretty badly from his nose and the back of his head.

Zimmerman's backside was very wet but his front was dry. It had been raining and the ground was wet.

Zimmerman told the officer that the 6'3"guy hit him in the nose and immediately knocked him to the ground. He was beating him and smashing his head into the road. Zimmerman kept screaming for help but no one would come and he wouldn't stop. Zimmerman tried to pull the gun to get him to stop but he tried to take it while continuing to beat him so Zimmerman fired.

Unlike the newspaper reports, they have witness statements that seem to back up some of this.

Based on this scenario there is no way they could arrest this guy. They took his gun for evidence and I believe some articles of clothes. I could be wrong on the clothes.

We have a very respected Police Chief that our "black" City Manager fully supports. He resigned rather than arrest this guy. The local State Attorney passed the case rather than arrest this guy. Do you not thnk either would have rather arrested him than go through this mess? I mean seriously ... who the heck is George Zimmerman?

The bottom line is all of the evidence points to self-defense. We will see. As I undertand it the Jacksonville State Attorney has filed crazy charges before and that is why she was hand chosen. She may press charges (which would supposedly calm things) but I really don't see how they could stick.

This guy George has several black relatives as well friends. He and his wife helps to support a young black boy and girl of a single mother.

Just today I saw an article from the former head of the NAACP calling out Jesse and AL for exploited this and racially dividing the country for their own puposes. I also saw pictures and the tweets this "innocent boy" has posted over the last two years. While not evidence, it does paint a pretty disturbing picture of the mindset of the victim.
The oddest thing to me is everyone keeps talking about racial profiling yet they don't publish his actual picture. He was a 6'3" 17 year with a gold grill working on dreads yet you would think he was this cute 10 year that they keep posting.


In the end I think, at least I hope, that we will be able to move on past a lot of this artificial racial stuff that seems to always pop up.  Is George totally innocent? I have no idea but I do know that some well respected people do not think there is evidence that the "law" thinks he is. I also know this town was never racially divided before (well since the 70s) and other than outsiders who keep saying it is, I still don't see it.

 
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Dave Gray
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« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2012, 12:06:22 pm »

Even if Treyvon is a thug, it doesn't matter.  You are allowed to walk down the street without being harrassed by a nobody, self-appointed, lunatic.

Zimmerman is nuts.  Who calls the cops that much?  The guy is a fruit loop who took the law into his own hands and started trouble by finding someone suspicious by their look and not their actions.  He was clearly emotionally invested, as he called Treyvon an "asshole" and a "fucking coon", and then he went out to confront him, while armed.

What do you think is going to happen, in that scenario?

When you have crazy people that are armed, I guess this shit's going to happen.  It's a shame.
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Cathal
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« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2012, 12:09:49 pm »

First of all the 911 operator didn't order him to stop and couldn't do so as they have no authority.

When the officer arrived Zimmerman was standing next to the body. the body was face down laying on his arms. He had appeared to have been shot form the front.

Zimmerman was bleeding pretty badly from his nose and the back of his head.

Zimmerman's backside was very wet but his front was dry. It had been raining and the ground was wet.

Zimmerman told the officer that the 6'3"guy hit him in the nose and immediately knocked him to the ground. He was beating him and smashing his head into the road. Zimmerman kept screaming for help but no one would come and he wouldn't stop. Zimmerman tried to pull the gun to get him to stop but he tried to take it while continuing to beat him so Zimmerman fired.

Unlike the newspaper reports, they have witness statements that seem to back up some of this.

Based on this scenario there is no way they could arrest this guy. They took his gun for evidence and I believe some articles of clothes. I could be wrong on the clothes.

We have a very respected Police Chief that our "black" City Manager fully supports. He resigned rather than arrest this guy. The local State Attorney passed the case rather than arrest this guy. Do you not thnk either would have rather arrested him than go through this mess? I mean seriously ... who the heck is George Zimmerman?

The bottom line is all of the evidence points to self-defense. We will see. As I undertand it the Jacksonville State Attorney has filed crazy charges before and that is why she was hand chosen. She may press charges (which would supposedly calm things) but I really don't see how they could stick.

This guy George has several black relatives as well friends. He and his wife helps to support a young black boy and girl of a single mother.

Just today I saw an article from the former head of the NAACP calling out Jesse and AL for exploited this and racially dividing the country for their own puposes. I also saw pictures and the tweets this "innocent boy" has posted over the last two years. While not evidence, it does paint a pretty disturbing picture of the mindset of the victim.
The oddest thing to me is everyone keeps talking about racial profiling yet they don't publish his actual picture. He was a 6'3" 17 year with a gold grill working on dreads yet you would think he was this cute 10 year that they keep posting.


In the end I think, at least I hope, that we will be able to move on past a lot of this artificial racial stuff that seems to always pop up.  Is George totally innocent? I have no idea but I do know that some well respected people do not think there is evidence that the "law" thinks he is. I also know this town was never racially divided before (well since the 70s) and other than outsiders who keep saying it is, I still don't see it.

 

I haven't followed this case but everything I have heard is kind of opposite of what you said. The 911 operator told him to stop following the guy and the guy begging for help was the kid, not Zimmerman. But, I'm not going to come to any conclusion until someone actually has some kind of clue as to what happened.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2012, 12:13:24 pm »

If Trayvon Martin is 6'3" and weighs 140lbs... it is not credible to claim that a 250lb grown man was helpless to defend himself.  Sorry, it just isn't.

I also find it difficult to believe that Martin would have been "running" from Zimmerman (as Zimmerman claimed) and then, after getting away, somehow turn around and head right back to him?  That just doesn't make any sense.

I think what makes more sense is that he ran, Zimmerman caught up to him, and tried to "apprehend" him (read: grab him by the arm and take him back to his truck).  Martin resisted, a scuffle ensued, and Zimmerman responded with deadly force.

The oddest thing to me is everyone keeps talking about racial profiling yet they don't publish his actual picture.
Are you joking?  There's a picture of Trayvon Martin in almost literally every article.

Google "trayvon martin" and go to images.  The picture in the red Hollister shirt is ubiquitous at this point.
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mecadonzilla
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« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2012, 12:22:16 pm »

I've seen and heard many different witnesses accounts and they all vary wildly.  This makes it very hard to figure what actually happened.

However, if the police had at least done their job and actually arrested the shooter at the scene, this wouldn't be nearly the big deal it is now.  I think that's why most people are upset.  I've seen a lot of internet chatter about giving Zimmerman "his day in court" before we make up our minds about his guilt, but the problem is that the court of public opinion is the only court he'll probably ever be tried in for his actions.  Had the appearance of due process occurred, there wouldn't be such a public outcry.

Now all sorts of crazies on either side are coming out of the wood works with their own agendas making this a gigantic circus.



I think Zimmerman is guilty as hell, but I don't think this case will ever get to see a judge or jury for any final verdict.
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