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Poll
Question: Do you think Zimmerman is
Guilty   -5 (25%)
Not Guilty   -2 (10%)
Self Defense   -1 (5%)
You don't know enough to decide   -12 (60%)
Total Voters: 17

Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case  (Read 148880 times)
badger6
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« Reply #360 on: April 17, 2012, 09:22:35 pm »

Ignorance, hate, prejudice, and racism are every bit as responsible as well. So as long as you're pointing fingers and making judgements about people based on the color of their skin, be sure to have a mirror handy to point some blame at yourself. Because some black people act a certain way, then surely Martin must act that way too, right? So... Since some hillbilly rednecks put on sheets, burn crosses and lynch minorities, all white people must do that too, right? This kind of simple-minded attack on groups of people isn't new, though. I get that. We watched old black and white films about it in high school, but I couldn't understand the narration because it was in German.  Roll Eyes -EK

I'm not making judgements about anyone based on the color of their skin. The numbers speak for themselves. By no means are black people as a group thugs and criminals. But while we're talking about pointing fingers, may I remind you that there are plenty of people pointing fingers at Zimmerman based on the skin color of Martin. I have not accused anyone of anything. I simply pointed out that your "only possible" scenario was but one of many possible scenarios that could have played out. Was Martin a rap thug ? I don't know, but he could have been. Just as easily as Zimmerman could have just straight up shot him. We don't have all the facts. As I said before, regardless of race and other factors, as far as I am concerned the one who initiated physical contact is the one to blame.
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EKnight
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« Reply #361 on: April 17, 2012, 09:34:17 pm »

Bullshit. You came up all high and mighty bitching about the race card after you categorized people with the whole rap video comment. You could have easily said any one of a hundred less racially charged things, but you chose not to. Don't be a little bitch about it now and backpedal. Have some balls to at least stand behind what you said- or better yet, don't say shit like that at all. -EK
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Landshark
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« Reply #362 on: April 17, 2012, 09:39:48 pm »

Ignorance, hate, prejudice, and racism are every bit as responsible as well. So as long as you're pointing fingers and making judgements about people based on the color of their skin, be sure to have a mirror handy to point some blame at yourself. Because some black people act a certain way, then surely Martin must act that way too, right? So... Since some hillbilly rednecks put on sheets, burn crosses and lynch minorities, all white people must do that too, right? This kind of simple-minded attack on groups of people isn't new, though. I get that. We watched old black and white films about it in high school, but I couldn't understand the narration because it was in German.  Roll Eyes -EK

Some black people may act a certain way, but if you're a black man and you've got pictures of yourself wearing baggy jeans, cap turned to the side, and gold teeth, it doesn't help to shed that negative perception.

Some white people may act a certain way, but if you're a white man and you're driving a pickup truck with a Confederate flag on it and chewing tobacco, it doesn't help to shed that negative perception.  

My department has student assistants that do office/clerical work.  Regardless of race, they are required to dress like they are going to work and not to a party and to speak in a professional manner at all times while on duty.  

People who don't know you that well usually perceive who you are by how you look and act.  
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badger6
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« Reply #363 on: April 17, 2012, 09:53:28 pm »

Bullshit. You came up all high and mighty bitching about the race card after you categorized people with the whole rap video comment. You could have easily said any one of a hundred less racially charged things, but you chose not to. Don't be a little bitch about it now and backpedal. Have some balls to at least stand behind what you said- or better yet, don't say shit like that at all. -EK

Are you gonna cry now little fella, bwahahahaha ?
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #364 on: April 17, 2012, 10:16:50 pm »

These type of statistics, while useful for propagating racial profiling, completely neglect the factors of income and education on crime.  There is plenty of data to support the claim that income has more of an effect on criminal behavior than race.  But since blacks (and Hispanics) are disproportionately represented among the poor, there's a segment of society that likes to simply point at race as an indicator of criminal behavior.

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Looks like the the highest violence corresponded to the east vs west rap thing in the early 90s and has declined and leveled out since.
Cherry picking at its finest.  If, as you claim, rap music is a motivating factor in black youth violence, and rap has increased in popularity (by any metric you want to use) since the early '90s, why did the crime statistics go down?

Seems to me that since rap music's popularity has grown and black violent crime has decreased, the logical conclusion must be that the increased popularity of hip-hop music has reduced violent crime, right?

P.S. Not that you would know or care, but the "east vs. west rap thing"?  Yeah, Tupac and Biggie were killed in '96 and '97 (respectively), 4 years after the crime peak, so you need to find a better scapegoat.  If we're going to throw out blind guesses at a dartboard, the movie CB4 came out in 1993.  Perhaps it was Chris Rock's scathing sendup that scared the black community straight!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 10:24:25 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

Spider-Dan
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« Reply #365 on: April 17, 2012, 10:40:03 pm »

Assuming the top of the page is north then Zimmerman could have already been behind the building when told to stop and was walking back another way than he got there.
It would have been impossible for him to encounter Martin while "walking back" unless he had already passed him.  And he would have had to pass him in the ~10 seconds from the moment you can hear him following Martin to the point where he agreed to stop.

Furthermore, it doesn't make sense for him to be walking south between the buildings when his car was northwest of where Martin was running.  That is, unless he was specifically looking for Martin.

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On first thougth it seems odd that Martin was ahead of Zimmerman but yet Zimmerman not only made it all the way around the building before Martin but was heading back towards the north before Martin got there. I would have to askwhere was he or waht was he doing during that time as Zimmerman covered much more ground during that time.
Martin was on the phone the whole time.  It is reasonable to think that he stopped running after he had "lost" Zimmerman.  He may have just stopped to talk on the phone with his girlfriend; one of Zimmerman's original claims was that Martin was standing around "suspiciously."
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CF DolFan
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« Reply #366 on: April 18, 2012, 07:58:27 am »

It would have been impossible for him to encounter Martin while "walking back" unless he had already passed him.  And he would have had to pass him in the ~10 seconds from the moment you can hear him following Martin to the point where he agreed to stop.

That's assuming were he was at the moment he stopped. We don't know. According to the sketch he didn't pass him. He went a different way. I don't know how reliable the assumed sketch is in refernce to their travel paths. It even labels everything "assumed paths".

Furthermore, it doesn't make sense for him to be walking south between the buildings when his car was northwest of where Martin was running.  That is, unless he was specifically looking for Martin..
Zimmerman didn't go south between the buildings. He went north between the buildings according to sketch. The only time Zimmerman headed south was in fron tof the buildings. Martin was traveling south between the buildings.

Martin was on the phone the whole time.  It is reasonable to think that he stopped running after he had "lost" Zimmerman.  He may have just stopped to talk on the phone with his girlfriend; one of Zimmerman's original claims was that Martin was standing around "suspiciously."
We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]


This would seem more like meandering than standing to me. I think of someone casing a place when I read this ... or at least I think the person is trying to describe someone who is seems to be casing things when I read this. "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something doesn't paint the picture of someone standing around and talking on the phone.

Now one could argue George's interpretation of what he was seeing but that requires speculation.

BTW I have to ask ... do we really know that he was talking to his girlfriend the whole time? I say this because so many other "facts" turned out not to be true and I have never seen evidence of her phone call even mentioned. I mean I heard they didn't perform a crime scene. Turns out over 6 hours of investigating that night including intervewing at least 6 witnesses. Same deal with the gun, taking Geoorge into custody and whatever else I can't rememebr at the moment.
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Phishfan
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« Reply #367 on: April 18, 2012, 09:38:55 am »

I'm not sure how long they were on the phone but records do indeed show he was on the phone with her right up to the incident I beleive (at least I heard it that way).

We rwally won't know how much of anything we have heard is fact (other than the recordings) until we hear it in the courtroom.
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EKnight
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« Reply #368 on: April 18, 2012, 10:12:17 am »

CF- the statement, "he looks like he's on drugs or something," coming from this particular individual (who also used the term "f*cking coon" on the 911 call) is highly subjective. I'm feel comfortable in saying it's more likely that he used the term because he saw a black kid in a hoodie than because the kid actually appeared to be on drugs. I got the impression from everything I've read that the ONLY person who felt like Martin was "suspicious" was Zimmerman. -EK
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #369 on: April 18, 2012, 10:42:42 am »

CF- the statement, "he looks like he's on drugs or something," coming from this particular individual (who also used the term "f*cking coon" on the 911 call) is highly subjective. I'm feel comfortable in saying it's more likely that he used the term because he saw a black kid in a hoodie than because the kid actually appeared to be on drugs. I got the impression from everything I've read that the ONLY person who felt like Martin was "suspicious" was Zimmerman. -EK
You really buy into the hype and suspicion of he is guilty so I'm not sure why you don't buy into any of the conservative hype that he is not?   

It was determined a while back that it was in fact "F'ing cold" and not what was reported by people who originally reported "f'ing coon". The same people and the same show changed their minds one week later. CNN backpeddled shortly after MSNBC fired their guy for doctoring the phone call to make Goerge look racist.

The guy has blacks in his very own family as well as does charity and sort of fostering for a single black mother. How come everyone keeps mandating he has to be a racist? Ever think he could have just been an overzealous wanna be cop who got out of control? Ever think he could have been trying to do the right thing and Martin was the offender who was trying to do something illegal? There are so many things that could have happened I am blown away at how so many people have made their decision.

« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 10:50:58 am by CF DolFan » Logged

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suck for luck
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« Reply #370 on: April 18, 2012, 10:50:32 am »

http://www.conservativedailynews.com/2012/04/did-zimmerman-say-coon-before-shooting-trayvon-martin/

That bastion of conservatism CNN now reports that Z said '****ing punks'.

Post explaining the word 'punk' is code for black in 3...2...1  Wink
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #371 on: April 18, 2012, 10:55:35 am »

^^^^ The best thing I saw on the use of the word coon was in the comments. "When was the last time [since] 1963 has anyone used coon as a slur?"  I laughed when I read this as it is probably true. that isn't really a slur I've heard outside of movies.

The point I was making is everyone is quick to make judgements and I can't think of another case that has proven to NOT being able to be taken at face value. It's kind of proving that all of us are way too quick to judge and not slow enough to wait for "facts".
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #372 on: April 18, 2012, 11:29:29 am »

That's assuming were he was at the moment he stopped. We don't know. According to the sketch he didn't pass him.
I'm not taking into account the speculation on Zimmerman's "assumed path" on that map, only the location of Zimmerman's car, the shooting, Martin's residence, and the fact that Zimmerman said Martin went into a walkway between buildings (which would seem to be right where the black arrows leave the road).

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Zimmerman didn't go south between the buildings. He went north between the buildings according to sketch.
Again, I'm not using Zimmerman's "assumed path" from that map.  If Zimmerman had actually followed Martin on the pathway traveling due east (before he was instructed to stop), he would have had to turn south, away from his vehicle, to get to the location of the shooting.

Quote
This would seem more like meandering than standing to me. I think of someone casing a place when I read this ... or at least I think the person is trying to describe someone who is seems to be casing things when I read this. "This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something doesn't paint the picture of someone standing around and talking on the phone.

Now one could argue George's interpretation of what he was seeing but that requires speculation.
The majority of this thread is speculation, so that's obviously not an issue.

When reading Zimmerman's account, I think of a teenager on the phone that's on his way back home (possibly because he had been instructed to go to the store and come right back, being on suspension and all), but isn't exactly motivated to rush back, so he is, as you put it, "meandering."
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badger6
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« Reply #373 on: April 18, 2012, 03:01:41 pm »

Some black people may act a certain way, but if you're a black man and you've got pictures of yourself wearing baggy jeans, cap turned to the side, and gold teeth, it doesn't help to shed that negative perception.

Some white people may act a certain way, but if you're a white man and you're driving a pickup truck with a Confederate flag on it and chewing tobacco, it doesn't help to shed that negative perception.  

My department has student assistants that do office/clerical work.  Regardless of race, they are required to dress like they are going to work and not to a party and to speak in a professional manner at all times while on duty.  

People who don't know you that well usually perceive who you are by how you look and act.  

Absolutely correct......
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EKnight
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« Reply #374 on: April 18, 2012, 03:13:55 pm »

So how was Martin acting like he was in a rap video? I've seen a lot of rap videos and I've never seen one with a guy over to the side minding his own business, not bothering anyone and eating his skittles. Guess I missed that one. Anybody got a link to it? -EK
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