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Question: Do you think Zimmerman is
Guilty   -5 (25%)
Not Guilty   -2 (10%)
Self Defense   -1 (5%)
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Total Voters: 17

Author Topic: Trayvon Martin case  (Read 148935 times)
bsfins
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« Reply #375 on: April 18, 2012, 03:31:20 pm »

I understand this topic is controversial and people want to talk about it.Can we watch our language,and keep this civil please,and leave out the personal attacks....

You can disagree with the post,or feel different,but Stop the name calling...


This is the one and only Warning.....

Thank you...

Sincerely,
your card carrying redneck off topic moderator
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 03:33:07 pm by Lil B » Logged
badger6
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« Reply #376 on: April 18, 2012, 03:45:31 pm »

These type of statistics, while useful for propagating racial profiling, completely neglect the factors of income and education on crime.  There is plenty of data to support the claim that income has more of an effect on criminal behavior than race.  But since blacks (and Hispanics) are disproportionately represented among the poor, there's a segment of society that likes to simply point at race as an indicator of criminal behavior.

You asked for empirical evidence. I gave you the statistics and you choose to ignore it. Spin it how you want. Black people as a group commit more violent crimes than all other groups, that is a fact. If you want to blame income, education, me, all white people, or the Easter Bunny for peoples actions then that's your decision. Don't expect everyone else to make excuses for people instead of addressing the problem. Then again you do have an agenda to push.


Cherry picking at its finest.  If, as you claim, rap music is a motivating factor in black youth violence, and rap has increased in popularity (by any metric you want to use) since the early '90s, why did the crime statistics go down?

Seems to me that since rap music's popularity has grown and black violent crime has decreased, the logical conclusion must be that the increased popularity of hip-hop music has reduced violent crime, right?

P.S. Not that you would know or care, but the "east vs. west rap thing"?  Yeah, Tupac and Biggie were killed in '96 and '97 (respectively), 4 years after the crime peak, so you need to find a better scapegoat.  If we're going to throw out blind guesses at a dartboard, the movie CB4 came out in 1993.  Perhaps it was Chris Rock's scathing sendup that scared the black community straight!

Tupac and Biggie died violent deaths because why again ? Natural causes ? I guess young black males don't idolize that stuff and try to emulate it in real life do they ?
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badger6
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« Reply #377 on: April 18, 2012, 03:51:48 pm »

I'm feel comfortable in saying it's more likely that he used the term because he saw a black kid in a hoodie than because the kid actually appeared to be on drugs.

Don't just say it, prove it.

I got the impression from everything I've read that the ONLY person who felt like Martin was "suspicious" was Zimmerman. -EK

Do you know if anyone but Zimmerman even saw Martin before the last few minutes before the gunshot ? I saw a couple of interviews of local residents that backed up Zimmerman.
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badger6
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« Reply #378 on: April 18, 2012, 03:54:53 pm »

Post explaining the word 'punk' is code for black in 3...2...1  Wink

Ha, ha, ha, I can't wait for it. Should be an interesting read.....

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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #379 on: April 18, 2012, 05:39:28 pm »

You asked for empirical evidence. I gave you the statistics and you choose to ignore it. Spin it how you want. Black people as a group commit more violent crimes than all other groups, that is a fact.
So then, a serious question:  what should be done with this fact?

It sounds like you're saying that since statistical data shows that blacks commit a disproportionately high percentage of crimes, it is therefore reasonable to treat a person with greater suspicion because he is black.  Is this an accurate description of your position?
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #380 on: April 18, 2012, 06:26:34 pm »

As many black leaders will tell you black on black crime is the highest crime rate in the US but yet most people ignore it. it's not black on white or even white on black . Black on black crime is a very serious issue but just like in this case, white on black crime gets the most attention. To pretend racism is the biggest isue today ... when we have a black president ... just boggles most white people's minds. Does it exsit in both subtle and very non subtle tones? Absolutely but it isn't the cause just because someone says it is.

This is probably a good time to start a new thread as I think profiling is a whole topic in itself. Profiling or not profiling is a huge issue today. Whether a kid is black, white, oriental or hispanic ... if they are dressed like a thug, or what a reasonable person thinks of a thug, I would expect they receive more attention than two kids whose pants are not dragging of any race playing catch with a baseball.   That's just the way it is. Blacks profile "ghetto' blacks just as I profile what I'd term white trash. That's not racism but it is profiling. That doesn't mean the whigger (please excuse my ignorance as I do not know of a better term) is breaking any law but if he wants to portray the part then he is going to get profiled. I was profiled as a kid and justifiably so.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #381 on: April 18, 2012, 06:32:13 pm »

CF Dolfan, you mention that black on black crime is the highest crime rate in the US, but that it is being "ignored."

What laws or policies do you think should be enacted based on that information?
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badger6
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« Reply #382 on: April 18, 2012, 06:42:35 pm »

So then, a serious question:  what should be done with this fact?

It sounds like you're saying that since statistical data shows that blacks commit a disproportionately high percentage of crimes, it is therefore reasonable to treat a person with greater suspicion because he is black.  Is this an accurate description of your position?

You asked for data and I gave it to you. And no, that is not accurate of my position. If someone is acting suspiciously or thug like they should be treated as such regardless of what color they are.

CF Dolfan, you mention that black on black crime is the highest crime rate in the US, but that it is being "ignored."

What laws or policies do you think should be enacted based on that information?

Better yet what do you think should be done about it. Baiting people with questions and then arguing with them when they give you the answer is silly.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 06:45:03 pm by badger6 » Logged
Spider-Dan
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« Reply #383 on: April 18, 2012, 06:59:56 pm »

Well, you mentioned that blacks are the majority of the violent youth in this nation, and you also mentioned the thug rap mentality.  Let us take all of these points as undisputed fact.  What should be done with this data?

Rather than try to guess at your point, or erroneously attribute a false position to you (plural), I'm asking directly.  When you (plural) point out that "black on black crime is being ignored" or "the majority of violent youth are black," to what end are you making these points?  Are you proposing that something be done?  If so, what?

If you believe that this data should have no effect on policy making or incident evaluation, then I don't see how it's anything other than trivia (along the lines of "What is the favorite soft drink of convicted rapists?").  If, however, you think that this data should have an effect, then just say so, and we can discuss what effects you feel are appropriate.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 07:06:52 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

badger6
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« Reply #384 on: April 18, 2012, 07:53:20 pm »

Well, you mentioned that blacks are the majority of the violent youth in this nation, and you also mentioned the thug rap mentality.  Let us take all of these points as undisputed fact.  What should be done with this data?

Rather than try to guess at your point, or erroneously attribute a false position to you (plural), I'm asking directly.  When you (plural) point out that "black on black crime is being ignored" or "the majority of violent youth are black," to what end are you making these points?  Are you proposing that something be done?  If so, what?

If you believe that this data should have no effect on policy making or incident evaluation, then I don't see how it's anything other than trivia (along the lines of "What is the favorite soft drink of convicted rapists?").  If, however, you think that this data should have an effect, then just say so, and we can discuss what effects you feel are appropriate.

I simply provided a different scenario to EK's "only possible way it could happen" as it pertains to this situation. Martin could have had some silly "I feel disrespected" thug rapper mentality and initiated physical contact. I see people of different colors act like that everyday. That is just as plausible as "Zimmerman hunted down an innocent black kid" given the actual facts that we are privy to.
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Spider-Dan
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« Reply #385 on: April 18, 2012, 08:16:03 pm »

I simply provided a different scenario to EK's "only possible way it could happen" as it pertains to this situation. Martin could have had some silly "I feel disrespected" thug rapper mentality and initiated physical contact.
Could Zimmerman have had some silly "I feel disrespected" thug rapper mentality?

Actually, let me rephrase that: would Martin have been more likely than Zimmerman to have an "I feel disrespected" thug rapper mentality?  If so, please explain why.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 08:17:46 pm by Spider-Dan » Logged

bsmooth
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« Reply #386 on: April 19, 2012, 02:57:53 am »

As many black leaders will tell you black on black crime is the highest crime rate in the US but yet most people ignore it. it's not black on white or even white on black . Black on black crime is a very serious issue but just like in this case, white on black crime gets the most attention. To pretend racism is the biggest isue today ... when we have a black president ... just boggles most white people's minds. Does it exsit in both subtle and very non subtle tones? Absolutely but it isn't the cause just because someone says it is.

This is probably a good time to start a new thread as I think profiling is a whole topic in itself. Profiling or not profiling is a huge issue today. Whether a kid is black, white, oriental or hispanic ... if they are dressed like a thug, or what a reasonable person thinks of a thug, I would expect they receive more attention than two kids whose pants are not dragging of any race playing catch with a baseball.   That's just the way it is. Blacks profile "ghetto' blacks just as I profile what I'd term white trash. That's not racism but it is profiling. That doesn't mean the whigger (please excuse my ignorance as I do not know of a better term) is breaking any law but if he wants to portray the part then he is going to get profiled. I was profiled as a kid and justifiably so.

This is indeed a problem.But as Bill Cosby and other rational voices in the black community have pointed out that this is also a problem that needs to fully admitted too and efforts from within the black community need to be vigorously undertaken besides efforts from outside the community to combat it.
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #387 on: April 19, 2012, 08:16:54 am »

This is indeed a problem.But as Bill Cosby and other rational voices in the black community have pointed out that this is also a problem that needs to fully admitted too and efforts from within the black community need to be vigorously undertaken besides efforts from outside the community to combat it.
Absolutely. I know he just reiterated it again but Cosby has taken a lot of criticism in the past from blacks for stating this. There is no way white people can say this even though its the elephant in the room.

Personally I think so much is overblown about white racism and ignored about black on black crime that it actually adds to the problem. I mean, how much money and publicity is spent fighting white racism by the black community versus fighting crime in their own neighborhoods? I would argue if Zimmerman was black no one would know where Sanford even is. 

Take Sanford and Orlando for a moment. The violent crime rates are pretty high for both but where that crime happens is mostly in lower income minority neighborhoods. It's certainly not in the higher end neighborhoods and rarely in the middle class ... as this case was. It's certainly not white on black crime or even black on white crime so where should most of the resources be focused?

I'm not saying racism isn't a problem and I'm certainly not saying to overlook it but the mouthpieces for black America are doing a huge diservice to themselves by ignoring it and finger pointing at other things.
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CF DolFan
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cf_dolfan
« Reply #388 on: April 20, 2012, 07:50:47 am »

Not sure if it breaking news or anything but Terry Jones, aka Quran burning pastor, is holding a rally for Zimmerman tomorrow "to support George Zimmerman’s constitutional rights to a fair trial.”
and is set to face off against the black panthers. It's called "JUSTICE FOR ZIMMERMAN vs RACIST LYNCH MOB.”  Several deputies I know have been called in to work the detail.

Jones has been one of the few people publicly facing off against people screaming for Zimmerman's head. On one hand it's it's good someone is actually standing up to the extreme people (like the panthers) but it's sad it has to be another extremist. I would love for it to be someone like a Mike Huckabee or better yet, AL Sharpton, but I guess that isn't happening.

On the other hand if we get all the crazies in one spot they could spend eternity screaming at each other.
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Getting offended by something you see on the internet is like choosing to step in dog shite instead of walking around it.
badger6
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« Reply #389 on: April 20, 2012, 11:24:26 am »

$150 K bond, electronic GPS monitoring, no alcohol or controlled substances, no contact with Martin's family and some other seemingly routine requirements. Seems as though that he can leave the state for safety purposes. The investigator seems to have said that they didn't have any direct evidence contradictory of Zimmerman's statement about who initiated physical contact, if Zimmerman continued to follow, or Zimmerman's injuries. With all the back and forth and controversy surrounding this situation the bail and conditions seem somewhat fair in my opinion.
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